6 charged with fraud

[sylbry]

I though JO was one of the good guys?

http://www.sportscollectorsdaily.com/breaking-six-memorabilia-dealers-charged-with-fraud/

[xpress34]

Damn!!!!

This could be both good (cleaning up) and bad (people finding out what they have isn't what they thought) for the hobby...

It will be interesting to see how it plays out and how the accused attempt to defend themselves....

- Smitty

[Jeffredsfan]

JO Sports? This is insane. :confused:

[schubert1970]

The greed in our hobby never ceases to amaze me.

[schubert1970]

There are probably a few people they missed too.

[Cubsfan4life]

I think that is a different JO Sports. It says JO Sports Inc. which is this site:
http://www.josportsinc.com/
The game used memorabilia company is JO Sports Co:
http://www.josportsco.com/

[Cubsfan4life]

I think that is a different JO Sports. It says JO Sports Inc. which is this site:
http://www.josportsinc.com/
The game used memorabilia company is JO Sports Co:
http://www.josportsco.com/

Nevermind, I see he used to work for JO Sports Co.

[gnishiyama]

Personally speaking I'm glad to see a couple of these names on the list
for all the crap they've dumped into the Japanese market.
I don't know anything about football stuff but surprised to see JO Sports
caught in this from what I've read on the board. I wonder how it will
affect their team partnerships.

[Lokee]

Not surprised really. I have bought a few jersey's (Raiders & Redskins) from JO Sports Co that all came with COA's stating they where game used. It was quite obvious they where not. they all looked new and at best team issued.

Makes you wonder about the Favre's, Tebow's Bradfords's ect.... and all the expensive jersey's that they sold.

I think a cloud will be over JO Sports Co because of this.

[masp3392]

we should let JO defend themselves first before we all jump to conclusions. There have been more good reports on JO and their jersey's rather than bad ones so let's see what happen

[gameon]

I'm glad to see more of these so called "reputable" dealers getting what they deserve. I'm so sick of all the deceit and greed in our hobby that it makes me want to get out of it all together. Just when you think you can trust a source, you hear about this. I'm glad I never spent my hard earned money on all of the jersey cards that these card manufacturers pumped out over the years that are now IMO pretty much worthless also. It reminds me of a drug cartel, you can slow them down, but you will never stop them. KUDOS to the FBI for taking some more of these scumbags down!!!

[Lokee]

we should let JO defend themselves first before we all jump to conclusions. There have been more good reports on JO and their jersey's rather than bad ones so let's see what happen

I was speaking on my experience of course. That is why I would not purchase another jersey from that company and have not since then.

[RaiderNationPDX]

Just underscores what many on this forum have said: COA's ain't s**t (paraphrasing, naturally).

If I hadn't been able to photomatch most of my JO purchases, I'd be pissed right now, because apparently those COA's are worth approximately...nothing.

[SkubeBats]

This isn't the first time that Mittchell Schumacher was involved with selling questionable items. There might be some old post on here about him and his past.

[CollectGU]

JO's jerseys are good. I'm going to guess this was stuff was when he was in the business prior to him opening JO sports.

Dave

[SkubeBats]

Mittchell Schumacher goes by the EBAY username masauction.

[ChrisCavalier]

I called Jarrod to see exactly what was going on regarding the article. He was busy but I was told that a JO Sports would be issuing a press release shortly on the matter.

I am guessing the release will address any questions for the members on the forum.

Hope that helps,
Chris

[short84]

Wow. I was starting to get suspicious about the business practices involving their auctions. Many of you know I collect Patrick Crayton game used items. In their last auction, there was a Chargers Crayton Jersey offered. I have purchased several of his items through Steiner Sports -- mostly through their auctions. I have never felt Steiner's auctions were dishonest -- they make all bids visible and let you know if a reserve is set. Every Crayton game used jersey sold through Steiner auctions has been under $350. I have several and the most I ever paid was $250. But in the last JO Sports auction, the Crayton jersey had a final bid of $931 -- ran up by several hidden bids. Needless to say, it turned out to be a no sale and is still listed on their website as available. Because the bidding information is hidden, it is very easy for them to bid their own items up to a certain price hoping someone from the outside will place the final bid so they can sell it for a high price -- much higher than the item is actually worth. This has always bothered me about their auctions and why I have never purchased anything from them this way.

[sammy]

This is from the old site. Check the May 11, 2001 issue of SCD.





Re: MASAUCTION - Mitchell Schumaker

May 11 2005 at 2:05 PM

Response to MASAUCTION - Mitchell Schumaker (http://www.network54.com/Forum/379976/message/1115833189/MASAUCTION+-+Mitchell+Schumaker)

You are correct in your assumption regarding Mitch Schumacher of MS Auctions. There was an article in the May 11, 2001, issue of SCD regarding Mitch.

In that article, it states he was arrested in the FBI's Operation Foul Ball. He admitted using an east coast authenticating firm to authenticate his game-model jerseys as game used. The east coast firm was Grey Flannel.

Most of the "game used" items he sold on ebay before being arrested by the FBI, had Grey Flannel letters. He plead guilty.

[Lokee]

JO's jerseys are good. I'm going to guess this was stuff was when he was in the business prior to him opening JO sports.

Dave

Dave,

not sure why it matters if current or before.

[xpress34]

I would suggest everyone read the MASAUCTION thread that Skube has resurrected in this section...

There were a lot of people back then defending Mitch and saying maybe Mitch had changed and seen the errors of his ways, etc, etc and that he should be given a break to prove himself...

Those that brought up his past were vilified for mentioning it...

What's the old saying:

Fool me once - Shame on You.
Foll me twice - Shame on Me.

Just goes to show that tigers truly can't change their stripes...

- Smitty

[jhunt28]

Dave,

not sure why it matters if current or before.


I think we should all reserve judgement on this until we know what the facts are. First of all, people are complaining about JO and how they run their auctions...they are free to run their auctions how they please. There is nothing "illegal" about how they run their auctions.

I also think that if you want to vent about JO's prices, you should make a seperate thread about this. If you want to complain about an item that was not game worn, in your opinion, you should have taken that up with the people who work for JO.

This thread should be kept to the topic at hand. I have nothing to gain or lose by defending JO Sports Co, but I think some time should be given in order for people to let their stories come out.

[mikey68]

I really hope that JO is not involved in any of this, whether intentional or not. I've dealt with them on a few occasions and have been able to photo match a jersey purchased from them. Having said that, I've always doubted the game used or "player-worn" jersey cards that have flooded the market. At least some of the card companies do say "player-worn", so you know what it is, even if it's a replica jersey or one from Wal-Mart.

[Ozric]

I think we should all reserve judgement on this until we know what the facts are. First of all, people are complaining about JO and how they run their auctions...they are free to run their auctions how they please. There is nothing "illegal" about how they run their auctions.

I also think that if you want to vent about JO's prices, you should make a seperate thread about this. If you want to complain about an item that was not game worn, in your opinion, you should have taken that up with the people who work for JO.

This thread should be kept to the topic at hand. I have nothing to gain or lose by defending JO Sports Co, but I think some time should be given in order for people to let their stories come out.

Great in theory, but I did exactly that and it did no good. There was jersey I wanted that was listed as game worn from a specific game. The problem was that the player was on the DL from a week earlier, was out for the rest of the season with an injury, and could not have played in that game. I advised of such and was offered the jersey at a cheaper rate. I declined the offer, but the description was never changed from worn to issued. It eventually was sold as game worn.

[Shipp_96]

I only own one JO jersey (LJ Skins) and thankfully I have photo matched it, due to he only wore it for two games before being cut.

It is a real shame that they are involved in this report. I am one that would also like to give them a chance to come on here and defend themselves, but it has got to be a real downer in consumer confidence from this point on.

Hopefully for all who have purchased from them and for JO's sake, there is a logical explanation.

[jppopma]

I think we should all reserve judgement on this until we know what the facts are. First of all, people are complaining about JO and how they run their auctions...they are free to run their auctions how they please. There is nothing "illegal" about how they run their auctions.

I would disagree with this completely. A federal indictment is not a minor thing and should not be overlooked. Yes, they can be innocent until proven guilty...but are you willing to take that chance with your money?

Additionally, there most certainly are many illegal aspects in how they run their auctions. The shill bidding and selling of jerseys under false pretenses would constitute fraud in most any state. If they chose to "run their auctions how they please".....let them face the criminal charges that result.

Kudos to the feds for taking action and I am sure we have not seen the last of these charges! Pleas agreement = working with the feds to help them continue their investigations.

[Gridiron Heroes]

We've purchased around 2 dozen items from JO and have been happy w/ each item we bought. I will say that that IMO the only reasons most people are willing to pay what they do with JO is that they have or had;

-unquestioned team relationships

-unquestioned authenticity

If the above two are questioned, will people pay their prices? I am holding out judgement until I hear more, but this is disconcerting to say the least.

Shawn Kennedy
gridironheroes22@yahoo.com
GridironHeroes.net

[masp3392]

We've purchased around 2 dozen items from JO and have been happy w/ each item we bought. I will say that that IMO the only reasons most people are willing to pay what they do with JO is that they have or had;

-unquestioned team relationships

-unquestioned authenticity

If the above two are questioned, will people pay their prices? I am holding out judgement until I hear more, but this is disconcerting to say the least.

Shawn Kennedy
gridironheroes22@yahoo.com
GridironHeroes.net

exactly, im with everyone on this, in that this is very disappointing to hear especially for a company like JO but like the above poster said, we should wait to hear the presser from JO and more information regarding this.

I myself was a card collector before going into game used, and i am highly dissapointed in these companies, especially when they charge up to $500 for 1 box of cards.

[ivo610]

its not just collectors they are selling jerseys to....

[SaintsGeaux]

Dave,

not sure why it matters if current or before.

I can only tell you about my recent inquiry. Had been looking for a Justin Tryon game used jersey. JO had one from 2010 regular season only it was a Redskins jersey and not a Colts. I spoke to Lance. It had to be preseason as Tryon was traded before the first game. I told him that. The jersey also showed no use. Sure, preseason is game used but don't convince me it is regular season. Later I talked to a big Skins collector Kevin who got shipped his Skins jerseys. Several had no use.

Can JO come on here and defend that?

By the way, I called up to talk to Rob at JO and he resigned yesterday.

[jhunt28]

I probably should have written more clearly , but I was in a rush last night. I am in no way downplaying a Federal Charge, or Federal Indictment. But I think it's silly to assume that JO's connection to this story is at all related to his current business. 99% of everything that JO sells comes directly from NFL teams, with NFL team COA's. And if there are things on JO's site that you're unsure of, like anything in life, do your homework and be certain that it's legit.

There was a story written about charges being made...but no one knows JO's involvement in any of this. So my only point was to hold off on coming to conclusions before all sides of the story are out.

[short84]

I have purchased a total of 7 jerseys from JO Sports in the past 2 years. All were sold as game used with game used COAs. Six on the 7 were obtained directly from the teams and the 7th from Steiner. Two of the 7 showed no use at all and I could prove they were never game worn by the player they were issued to. I returned one (I was never reimbursed for my cost to ship it back) and the second one I gave away (without the COA). The one I returned, appeared a couple of months later on eBay represented as a game worn jersey complete with the original "game worn" COA issued by JO. It was not being sold by them, but another individual. Why was this issued jersey still being represented as game worn and why was the game used COA not destroyed? Sure, it is easy to make a mistake when you have to trust the team's information -- you have to take their word that the item you receive is being represented correctly. But when there is proof the item is not represented correctly, why is it passed on?
I would like to add; however, the other 5 jerseys I have are beautiful and I am thrilled to have them. The gentlemen I have worked with directly at JO have been fantastic and they have worked hard to make me happy. In every company, there is always a "weak" link and unfortunately, the entire company's reputation can be weakened or destroyed by this. I guess we will have to wait and see.

[kprst6]

99% of everything that JO sells comes directly from NFL teams, with NFL team COA's

And you can prove this how? There is no way 99% of their stuff comes directly from teams. I think they would like you to believe that, but they even admitted to buying jerseys from auctions (and we know how reputable any auction house is these days).

Their site clearly states that they only have agreements with 15 teams. That means they do not have a partnership with 17 teams, yet they have inventory from almost every single team. The 17 teams they have no agreement with but inventory for did not come directly from NFL teams etc. They got the items through, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, parties I.E a person that bought a jersey from a friend of a friend of the assistant equipment manager who got the jersey from the head equipment manager who got the jersey from the player or that same jersey was auctioned.

[hrvatwill]

So sorry to see JO Sports mixed up in this. I worked with Robert on two Steelers jerseys that are definitely legitimate as I was able to photomatch them before purchase. He was an outstanding sales representative and a good guy. Am truly sorry that I won't be able to work with him in the future. It's a shame when a good employee finds himself/herself caught up in such a controversy. I work for a company whose name was dragged through the mud last year to the nth degree and I had nothing to do with the incident that caused the controversy. It's such a feeling of helplessness. Here's hoping Robert lands somewhere soon, whoever gets him is getting themselves a great catch......

[SaintsGeaux]

I have purchased a total of 7 jerseys from JO Sports in the past 2 years. All were sold as game used with game used COAs. Six on the 7 were obtained directly from the teams and the 7th from Steiner. Two of the 7 showed no use at all and I could prove they were never game worn by the player they were issued to. I returned one (I was never reimbursed for my cost to ship it back) and the second one I gave away (without the COA). The one I returned, appeared a couple of months later on eBay represented as a game worn jersey complete with the original "game worn" COA issued by JO. It was not being sold by them, but another individual. Why was this issued jersey still being represented as game worn and why was the game used COA not destroyed? Sure, it is easy to make a mistake when you have to trust the team's information -- you have to take their word that the item you receive is being represented correctly. But when there is proof the item is not represented correctly, why is it passed on?
I would like to add; however, the other 5 jerseys I have are beautiful and I am thrilled to have them. The gentlemen I have worked with directly at JO have been fantastic and they have worked hard to make me happy. In every company, there is always a "weak" link and unfortunately, the entire company's reputation can be weakened or destroyed by this. I guess we will have to wait and see.

You are what is problematic in this hobby. You are thrilled with your 5 good jerseys and would probably do business with them again.

While it was noble of you to stand up, I am enraged to hear that jersey was on EBAY and you have to wonder what the sellers story is.

This isn't 1 bad Apple here, this sounds like SOP in government terms is standard operating procedure.

My guess is people are afraid to post up on this.

[otismalibu]

A few quotes from the Justice Department discussion board.

"What are you guys, the game worn police?"

"They have perfect eBay feedback, this must be wrong"

"I won't believe it until I read it on Twitter."

"How can you charge a guy that has a biblical quote in his message board signature? That's unAmerican!"

"This was more important than catching Osama?"

"Federal prosecutors with too much free time!"

"But it's got paperwork AND is professionally framed."

"Where the hell is the Dislike button?"

[legaleagle92481]

As many of you know I have purchased many jerseys from JO. I have spent a small fortune on them. In my opinion JO needs to step up to the plate here and 1. Explain to their customers and the collecting public exactly what happened, what jerseys were involved, from what time period the conduct charged occurred, etc. and 2. Offer full returns and refunds to every customer who purchased an item before yesterday. Even if this has nothing to do with stuff they are currently selling, unless JO has some amazing explanation in the press release the JO name is now forever tainted. As a result people who us collectors may resell our jerseys to will question them, in many cases refrain from buying them and not be willing to pay as much for as they would have yesterday. Therefore, it is only fair that they do the right thing here and not leave us customers hung out to dry.

[SkubeBats]

I wonder now if JO will still be able to get items from teams or will the teams stop selling to them over this? I wonder if the teams even now about this.

[jhunt28]

I have purchased a total of 7 jerseys from JO Sports in the past 2 years. All were sold as game used with game used COAs. Six on the 7 were obtained directly from the teams and the 7th from Steiner. Two of the 7 showed no use at all and I could prove they were never game worn by the player they were issued to. I returned one (I was never reimbursed for my cost to ship it back) and the second one I gave away (without the COA). The one I returned, appeared a couple of months later on eBay represented as a game worn jersey complete with the original "game worn" COA issued by JO. It was not being sold by them, but another individual. Why was this issued jersey still being represented as game worn and why was the game used COA not destroyed? Sure, it is easy to make a mistake when you have to trust the team's information -- you have to take their word that the item you receive is being represented correctly. But when there is proof the item is not represented correctly, why is it passed on?
I would like to add; however, the other 5 jerseys I have are beautiful and I am thrilled to have them. The gentlemen I have worked with directly at JO have been fantastic and they have worked hard to make me happy. In every company, there is always a "weak" link and unfortunately, the entire company's reputation can be weakened or destroyed by this. I guess we will have to wait and see.

Would you care to elaborate on these "game issued" jerseys that were advertised as game used? What position was the jersey from? Is it possible you purchased a Revis jersey from 1 game, in which he wasn't involved in a single tackle, nor thrown to once? Is it possible you bought an Eli Manning jersey from one game, in which no one laid a hand on him? My point is that it's possible to get jerseys in this day and age that barely show use, because they have been used for 1 game only, used on dry field turf, or were hardly involved in the game. Not every jersey from every player involved in every game looks like an Adrien Peterson jersey. I'm not looking to start fights, or point fingers...just playing devils advocate.

[Jeffredsfan]

This is from the old site. Check the May 11, 2001 issue of SCD.





Re: MASAUCTION - Mitchell Schumaker

May 11 2005 at 2:05 PM

Response to MASAUCTION - Mitchell Schumaker (http://www.network54.com/Forum/379976/message/1115833189/MASAUCTION+-+Mitchell+Schumaker)

You are correct in your assumption regarding Mitch Schumacher of MS Auctions. There was an article in the May 11, 2001, issue of SCD regarding Mitch.

In that article, it states he was arrested in the FBI's Operation Foul Ball. He admitted using an east coast authenticating firm to authenticate his game-model jerseys as game used. The east coast firm was Grey Flannel.

Most of the "game used" items he sold on ebay before being arrested by the FBI, had Grey Flannel letters. He plead guilty.

I have to admit I am confused by this information. Did this Schumaker episode reflect poorly on Grey Flannel? Can anyone enlighten me?

[Eric]

Interesting to note:
In U.S. District Court in Rockford, four defendants were charged in criminal informations and two in indictments.

"Charged in indictments with mail fraud are Eric Inselberg of New Jersey, who works with Taylor Huff Inc. and Pasadena Trading Corp,; and Bradley Wells of Florda, who works with Authentic Sports Inc. and Historic Auctions.

Charged by criminal information with mail fraud are Bernard Gernay of New Jersey, involved with Pro Sports Investments Inc.; Bradley Horne of South Carolina, involved with Authentic Sports Memorabilia Inc.; Jarrod Oldridge of Nevada, involved with JO Sports Inc.,; and Michell Schumacher of Wisconsin, using the trade name MS Sports."

Just so we know what we're talking about, here is the difference between information and an indictment

From a law blog...

"An indictment and an information are two vehicles which serve the same purpose through different approaches.

To be indicted the evidence is presented to a grand jury for consideration. The indictment in and of itself has no legal weight other than that it gets you into court. It holds no evidentiary value whatsoever. All it does is make you appear in front of a judge to enter a plea.

An information is generally used when a defendant, or potential defendant, agrees that there is enough evidence to proceed with the case, thereby compelling said defendant to appear in court and enter a plea to the information, i.e. charges contained therein, just like an indictment. In agreeing to be prosecuted on an information you are waiving your right to have the case presented to a grand jury.

The advantages are that you are cooperating with the prosecutor in not making them do more work than they want to. It also can serve to keep your case a little quieter. Most courts don't publicize the filing of informations unless someone notifies the media. In other words, reporters will go through bills of indictments and report what they choose to. In my situation, for instance, I plead to an information and there was no media coverage until sentencing. (I was a former L.E.O. and a very public figure, so it meant a lot to my family to keep it as quiet as possible. It didn't work for the duration of my case, but it helped keep the public scrutiny to a minimum for a long time.)

The advantages to the prosecutor are many. As pointed out he/she doesn't have to prepare the case for grand jury presentation. He/she doesn't risk the failure of a bill being handed up. He/she relies on you to show up in court as promised. He/she uses the fact that you have admitted that there is evidence to prosecute as leverage to gain a favorable plea."

[Eric]

Here's more information about the charges...

Oldridge
http://www.justice.gov/usao/iln/pr/rockford/2011/pr1025_01a.pdf (http://www.justice.gov/usao/iln/pr/rockford/2011/pr1025_01a.pdf)

Gernay
http://www.justice.gov/usao/iln/pr/rockford/2011/pr1025_01b.pdf (http://www.justice.gov/usao/iln/pr/rockford/2011/pr1025_01b.pdf)

Inselberg
http://www.justice.gov/usao/iln/pr/rockford/2011/pr1025_01c.pdf (http://www.justice.gov/usao/iln/pr/rockford/2011/pr1025_01c.pdf)

Schumacher
http://www.justice.gov/usao/iln/pr/rockford/2011/pr1025_01d.pdf (http://www.justice.gov/usao/iln/pr/rockford/2011/pr1025_01d.pdf)

Horne
http://www.justice.gov/usao/iln/pr/rockford/2011/pr1025_01e.pdf (http://www.justice.gov/usao/iln/pr/rockford/2011/pr1025_01e.pdf)

Wells
http://www.justice.gov/usao/iln/pr/rockford/2011/pr1025_01f.pdf (http://www.justice.gov/usao/iln/pr/rockford/2011/pr1025_01f.pdf)

[slam]

Here's more information about the charges...

Oldridge
http://www.justice.gov/usao/iln/pr/rockford/2011/pr1025_01a.pdf (http://www.justice.gov/usao/iln/pr/rockford/2011/pr1025_01a.pdf)

Gernay
http://www.justice.gov/usao/iln/pr/rockford/2011/pr1025_01b.pdf (http://www.justice.gov/usao/iln/pr/rockford/2011/pr1025_01b.pdf)

Inselberg
http://www.justice.gov/usao/iln/pr/rockford/2011/pr1025_01c.pdf (http://www.justice.gov/usao/iln/pr/rockford/2011/pr1025_01c.pdf)

Schumacher
http://www.justice.gov/usao/iln/pr/rockford/2011/pr1025_01d.pdf (http://www.justice.gov/usao/iln/pr/rockford/2011/pr1025_01d.pdf)

Horne
http://www.justice.gov/usao/iln/pr/rockford/2011/pr1025_01e.pdf (http://www.justice.gov/usao/iln/pr/rockford/2011/pr1025_01e.pdf)

Wells
http://www.justice.gov/usao/iln/pr/rockford/2011/pr1025_01f.pdf (http://www.justice.gov/usao/iln/pr/rockford/2011/pr1025_01f.pdf)

The indictment for JO Sports is from 2004 - 2008. When did they start signing all these exclusive deals with NFL teams?

[joelsabi]

"It was also a part of the scheme to defraud that the defendant and others involved in the scheme frequently changed, or caused changes to the jerseys’ appearance by roughening, scuffing, washing, dirtying, or otherwise changing the appearance of the jerseys to make them appear that they had actual “wear and tear.”

ouch

[SkubeBats]

Eric,
For some reason I'm not able to open the files you posted on Schumacher or Oldridge. Could you just post this information for all of us to read?

[Lokee]

Ouch is one of many words.

[xpress34]

Eric -

Not trying to start a fight, but after re-reading this thread:

Masauction (http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=4814)

:don't you think Howard Blake might be owed an apology from a few members of this board?

That thread took place in September 2006 and you and others were defending Mitchell Schumacher.

The Information on Mitch states dates starting 'in or about early 2005' - a full year and a half before Howard's thread - and continuing through 2011.

Just my opinion. And I won't be surprised if this post is deleted before it gets to many readings like most things that go against the grain here.

- Smitty

[slam]

By the way, I called up to talk to Rob at JO and he resigned yesterday.

Do you think he knew something was going on behind the scenes or was it a coincidence that he is resigning? I'd be curious to know.

[xpress34]

As far as JO, like Schumacher, theirs was a Criminal Information, not Indictment which means they have admitted to wrong doing and are working a plea.

Maybe they're just the tip of the iceberg and their pleas include bringing down bigger fish that may be involved???

- Smitty

[SaintsGeaux]

The charges list Jarred Oldridge (JO) as "part of the scheme to defraud that the defendant and others invoked in the scheme re-sold many of these jerseys, they provided or caused go be provided to the buyers, certificates of authenticity that falsely and fraudulently misrepresented that the jerseys were game used jerseys."

5. It was also a part of the scheme to defraud that the defendant and others involved in the scheme frequently changed, or caused changes to the jerseys’ appearance by roughening, scuffing, washing, dirtying, or otherwise changing the appearance of the jerseys to make them appear that they had actual “wear and tear.”

6. It was also a part of the scheme to defraud that the defendant and others involved in the scheme re-sold, consigned, and auctioned the same jerseys for hundreds of thousands of dollars to sports trading card companies and other buyers by falsely and fraudulently misrepresenting to the buyers that the jerseys were game used, when in fact, as the defendant well knew, the jerseys were not game used.

[legaleagle92481]

Wow. After reading these charges this is just horrible. Does anyone else feel like throwing things about now? After reading this I have new appreciation for Mei Gray and as much as I hate to say it Steiner.

[SaintsGeaux]

Do you think he knew something was going on behind the scenes or was it a coincidence that he is resigning? I'd be curious to know.

Really nice kid. I have no clue.

On the legal issues, I just called up there and Lance said its all a misunderstanding that this one incident was 5 years ago when Jarred was working out of his home. It's not a big deal.

[legaleagle92481]

Really nice kid. I have no clue.

On the legal issues, I just called up there and Lance said its all a misunderstanding that this one incident was 5 years ago when Jarred was working out of his home. It's not a big deal.

Are you kidding? The Information states that the conduct occurred over five years and 2008 which was only three years ago is specifically mentioned.

[xpress34]

]It's not a big deal.

Really?:confused:

FEDERAL Criminal Indictment
or
FEDERAL Criminal Information

Both FELONIES

Both BIG DEALS

Unless maybe you're a career criminal who misses the joint...
(NOT calling you - Saints - a criminal. Just a general statement)

- Smitty

[mickeymbz]

"It was also a part of the scheme to defraud that the defendant and others involved in the scheme frequently changed, or caused changes to the jerseys’ appearance by roughening, scuffing, washing, dirtying, or otherwise changing the appearance of the jerseys to make them appear that they had actual “wear and tear.”


JO's reputation has most definitely been tainted. i purchased from JO on the basis that i was "buying a piece of mind" as i do from Meigray...and i dont mind paying extra knowing this is indeed a true game worn item. But in light of current events, this has defintely changed my view,,even though minor, it still places some doubt in the back of your mind. I purchased a Devin Hester shirt with good wear and tell tale signs for good foto matching without the use of hig res pics. but with the news i ended up buying a hig res (expensive) pic from getty ...that otherwise would not have even entertained the idea of buying. fortunately it was a perfect match.... but the doubt has been placed

[SaintsGeaux]

Are you kidding? The Information states that the conduct occurred over five years and 2008 which was only three years ago is specifically mentioned.

Hear what you are saying. Also I see what is written so I agree with you. Innocent until proven guilty. Lance also said they were the middleman. Not sure what that means.

How do they explain the game issued problems we are having now? Honest mistakes? Blame that on the teams? Too much volume, not enough staff, bad handwriting, the dog ate the invoice?

I am sick today. Truly sick.

[CollectGU]

I woudn't be surprised if this is something from Jarrod's past coming back to haunt him.....

[SkubeBats]

How many times do some of these guys need to be caught before some of you members stop standing up for these scum bags?

It's about time this happened and maybe the FEDS can help us all out by arresting some more of these clowns. I know there are many other people out there selling fake gu items. All I have to say is your days are numbered!!

[MarkakisMania]

How many times do some of these guys need to be caught before some of you members stop standing up for these scum bags?

It's about time this happened and maybe the FEDS can help us all out by arresting some more of these clowns. I know there are many other people out there selling fake gu items. All I have to say is your days are numbered!!


While everyone is due their day in court I have to agree with skube on this one. How many times does information come out about underhanded dealings and there are members rushing to their defense. Oh this guy is a nice guy, I have been dealing with him for years, I cannot believe it there is no way this could be real etc. etc. and on and on it goes.

Nothing surprise me any longer. I have been collecting too long and the long list of bad guys who have been caught with their paw in the cookie jar is too long to mention. I cannot fathom at all why ANYONE would be shocked by any of this.

All it takes is getting behind on your rent or mortgage, needing to pay off creditors who are banging on your door, needing to put food on the table, pay for a lavish lifestyle living beyond your means and the list goes on and on. Once you get in too deep people begin to stop thinking rationally about their actions and anything is fair game potentially.

Not saying that is what happened here, I have no idea, but for anyone to be shocked on some level by this is perplexing to me to say the least. If a person gets desperate enough they may do almost anything.

[SkubeBats]

JO Sports Co was established in 2003 and their website was set up in 2008. So you can't say this is something that happened before Joe started JO Sports Co now can you??

I hope the FEDS keep this up and arrest many more of the idiots out their selling fake crap to all of us. (Are you hearing me Mike Schultz hope your next!)

[allstarsplus]

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=10331

Is this the same Inselberg of Ranzino Smith to Michael Jordan infamy?

[SkubeBats]

It should read before Jarred opened JO Sports not Joe.

[frikativ54]

All it takes is getting behind on your rent or mortgage, needing to pay off creditors who are banging on your door, needing to put food on the table, pay for a lavish lifestyle living beyond your means and the list goes on and on. Once you get in too deep people begin to stop thinking rationally about their actions and anything is fair game potentially.

Not saying that is what happened here, I have no idea, but for anyone to be shocked on some level by this is perplexing to me to say the least. If a person gets desperate enough they may do almost anything.

I couldn't agree with you more. People will do almost anything, so nothing surprises me anymore. For all the crooks that are actually indicted, there are tens of more con men who sell fake memorabilia with contrived use. Sadly, some of the aforementioned sell on the Collector to Collector Classifieds, and a few of them have been caught. Yet people still buy, not wanting to believe that someone they know could be involved in wrongdoing. One only needs to search the archives to know about which individuals I am talking.

[Mattapan03]

Jarrod is supposed to send out a press release today so let's wait and see what he says.

I'm disappointed, but not jumping to conclusions just yet.

[schubert1970]

Jarrod is supposed to send out a press release today so let's wait and see what he says.

I'm disappointed, but not jumping to conclusions just yet.


Who cares about any press release.


About 95 percent of federal criminal defendants plead guilty. Of the remaining few who fight in court, nearly nine of 10 are convicted, according to national statistics


This is all I need to know.

[otismalibu]

If a person gets desperate enough they may do almost anything.

Let's not confuse desperation with greed.

[frikativ54]

Who cares about any press release.


About 95 percent of federal criminal defendants plead guilty. Of the remaining few who fight in court, nearly nine of 10 are convicted, according to national statistics


This is all I need to know.


Any press release will be merely damage control.

[legaleagle92481]

Jarrod is supposed to send out a press release today so let's wait and see what he says.

I'm disappointed, but not jumping to conclusions just yet.

I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for a press release. At best a vague, general statement will be released. This is a pending legal matter anything that even touches on the facts of the case would be very stupid on his part.

[dplettn]

Dave,

not sure why it matters if current or before.

I tend to agree. In business and in life, each of us choose the standards of integrity to which we hold ourselves.

JO the person and JO the company both are presumed innocent, as our justice system allows. For me, I knew what the standards of integrity were once I had a personal experience:

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=42177

I was surprised how many folks on the thread at the time were focused on things other than JO's misrepresentations and questionable business practices. Some comments repositioned the thread as though whether I was or wasn't willing to share pictures of my own helmet was the issue.

At any rate, I wish the very best to all those who have been JOs customers. Looking forward, I think its going to be interesting how the NFL's member organizations handle their game used merchandise.

Whether its allegations of misrepresenting items, allegations of unfair auctions, or allegations of cornering markets for monopolistic pricing power none of these things would be possible from an entity which sets high standards of conduct for itself. Whether laws were broken or not, the standards of conduct similar to a used car dealership were very apparent at JO Sports IMHO. And, the culture was to deflect from any observations of that culture.

For me, I was surprised to see that even my local Cincinnati Bengals were comfortable lending their brand to JO. Game used sports memorabilia after all becomes your brand's history. Game used sports memorabilia is one of the strongest tools a franchise has to use to make positive imprints with its brand into households and families, which last (and sell tickets and t-shirts) for generations.

[Number9]

Well said, Smitty. I agree 100 percent.



I would suggest everyone read the MASAUCTION thread that Skube has resurrected in this section...

There were a lot of people back then defending Mitch and saying maybe Mitch had changed and seen the errors of his ways, etc, etc and that he should be given a break to prove himself...

Those that brought up his past were vilified for mentioning it...

What's the old saying:

Fool me once - Shame on You.
Foll me twice - Shame on Me.

Just goes to show that tigers truly can't change their stripes...

- Smitty

[freddiefreeman5]

I remember Ronald Reagan saying "Trust but verify" and I agree 100%.

[Eric]

From the original release
"Each defendant was allegedly involved in a business engaged in the purchase and sale of sports memorabilia, and the schemes are alleged to have taken place in Rockford and several other states."

Isn't Exclusive Pro in Rockford, Illinois?

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=31013&highlight=exclusive+pro (http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=31013&highlight=exclusive+pro)

Here's some old shots of their website- Look at all of those jerseys!

http://web.archive.org/web/20050207005049/http://www.exclusivepro.com/History.htm (http://web.archive.org/web/20050207005049/http:/www.exclusivepro.com/History.htm)

http://web.archive.org/web/20050204044800/http://www.exclusivepro.com/NFL.htm (http://web.archive.org/web/20050204044800/http:/www.exclusivepro.com/NFL.htm)

[mad87man]

i guess from now on if it can't be photo matched people will think twice real fast. i don't know what to say. Most of my stuff is photo matched but i feel bad for others.

Now how do we know stuff from the teams is real? Anyone can send an issued jersey to JO saying it was worn when in reality it sat in the locker. Maybe this is why JO is doing those videos straight when they open the box now? I will wait to judge til i hear the whole story.

[Preston]

Maybe this is why JO is doing those videos straight when they open the box now? I will wait to judge til i hear the whole story.

Then crazy people like me would question where the box came from! ha ha

In all seriousness, they seem to be a great group of guys and I've bought several game used jerseys from them - no "stars" per se - Terdell Sands is by no means a star in anyone's book other than his momma's - and the repairs/wear/etc look to be similar and not "reduplicated" to all the ones on my Titans gamers, but then again you never know what goes on behind closed doors.

I do think if somehow their "partnerships" with teams was voided and ALL NFL teams sold their jerseys, it would actually help the hobby tremendously because it would take out a middleman, in a sense, and allow the average consumer to purchase game worn jerseys (I'm lucky I've got a great connection with my local team). It would help it a LOT honestly.

But, like anything else, I guess we'll just see what happens and let the chips fall where they may. Everything that happens eventually seems to be for the "greater good", so I trust the feds to get rid of the people who are the "bad guys".

[mickeymbz]

Let's not confuse desperation with greed.
exactly.. someone doesnt need their back against the wall to sell crap... 10/10 times solely to make money,,, hungry dog keeps getting fed...it aint gonna go away

[SaintsGeaux]

The shame is most buyers are uneducated and take a COA as proof of ironclad provenance. How many items proudly sit in collections that aren't what the happy collector thinks it is. I have seen a buddys collection that was assembled from charity auctions and everything was garbage.

The card companies and charity auctions are generally the recipients of pure crapola.

[mickeymbz]

The shame is most buyers are uneducated and take a COA as proof of ironclad provenance. How many items proudly sit in collections that aren't what the happy collector thinks it is. I have seen a buddys collection that was assembled from charity auctions and everything was garbage.

The card companies and charity auctions are generally the recipients of pure crapola.
exactly! and doesnt matter who the coa is from too... ive seen so many posts that states that if ts from gfc or has a gfc coa its without a doubt legit. coa's are worth the paper their printed on ..as is used toilet paper...IMO

[Mattapan03]

Just flipping through JO website and come across this........on clearance

http://www.josportsco.com/view_product.asp?ProductID=7653

[TriplexXxSports]

From the original release
"Each defendant was allegedly involved in a business engaged in the purchase and sale of sports memorabilia, and the schemes are alleged to have taken place in Rockford and several other states."

Isn't Exclusive Pro in Rockford, Illinois?

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=31013&highlight=exclusive+pro (http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=31013&highlight=exclusive+pro)

Here's some old shots of their website- Look at all of those jerseys!

http://web.archive.org/web/20050207005049/http://www.exclusivepro.com/History.htm (http://web.archive.org/web/20050207005049/http:/www.exclusivepro.com/History.htm)

http://web.archive.org/web/20050204044800/http://www.exclusivepro.com/NFL.htm (http://web.archive.org/web/20050204044800/http:/www.exclusivepro.com/NFL.htm)



Eric, I am born & raised in Rockford, Illinois. Still reside in the area, and I have not seen a Exclusives Pro shop anywhere near here. That's not to say they run out of a house, or do not advertise, but there is no store front by that name.

The only ones I know of in the area are myself, and Gary at Got Quarters out at the mall.

[Fnazxc0114]

did jo sports take a plea agreement? The article implies they may have? If you take a plea your as good as guilty.

[TriplexXxSports]

....The only ones I know of in the area are myself, and Gary at Got Quarters out at the mall.

That deal with memorabilia (GU, autos, etc.)

Damn Edit feature people...

[TriplexXxSports]

Further research on this places shows that they have a warehouse in the "shady" business district side of town. Interesting.

I guess I never even knew it was in my backyard. In 31 years this is the first I have heard of them, but, if your into the "shifty" business maybe not advertising was the plan all along.

http://maps.google.com/maps?oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=Exclusive+Pro+Sports&fb=1&gl=us&hq=Exclusive+Pro+Sports&hnear=0x8808a4905ee5a553:0xd0306882c1511983,Roscoe ,+IL&cid=0,0,14737259144086033510&ei=c52oTt88g-u2B878sSI&sa=X&oi=local_result&ct=image&ved=0CAUQ_BI

[TriplexXxSports]

Jarrod is supposed to send out a press release today so let's wait and see what he says.

I'm disappointed, but not jumping to conclusions just yet.

.

[Fnazxc0114]

I wonder how many g/u jerseys bought through the auctions and listing on this site were fake? Pretty crazy if GUU was part of selling fake jerseys.

[gameon]

So, lets say that the NFL teams sell their "game used" jerseys to JO. Many of these jerseys range from no wear, slight wear, heavy wear. These NFL teams don't care what the official title of these will be called because they lump them all together and as long as they sell them for a profit. Now, JO has a bunch of these jerseys purchased from a team and when checking them out, discover that some of them have little/no wear on them at all. How many of you would spend alot of money on a jersey they describe as little/no wear vs. heavy wear. Here lies the problem, as long as they say its "game used" directly from the team, they feel they are not misrepresenting the jersey. But if they wash, rough it up(as implied), and make it look more legit, it is much easier to sell at a bigger profit and the customer is happy because he thinks he is getting something very special and wouldnt think about questioning it. And as long as they or any other dealer think they can get away with it, they will try. Just remember, Bubba is waiting for you in the big house!!!

[trsent]

Just remember, Bubba is waiting for you in the big house!!!

Bill Clinton is in the big house? I thought I saw him on Letterman in the past two weeks.

[otismalibu]

In 31 years this is the first I have heard of them, but, if your into the "shifty" business maybe not advertising was the plan all along.

EPS customizes jerseys. They've had a website for years. I seriously doubt they are the problem

[mad87man]

maybe someone can explain but what does washing a game worn jersey? i have gotten some that were washed and smelled like tide so either the team uses tide to get the stains out or someone else washed it lol.

[kprst6]

I wonder when they will finally start going after the dealers such as Josh Korb and SteelTown Memorabilia that sell $35.00 borntrade.com jerseys as being authentic?

Here's their eBay store:
http://myworld.ebay.com/steelerman78

Case and point... I know someone that got "behind the scenes" of their business operations...

They had 1000's of fake borntrade.com jerseys to get signed by some Pittsburgh Penguins players. Here's the photographic proof of walls (literally) of fake jerseys stacked one by one in a room.

49335
49336

On their eBay site, they list all of their Steelers memorabilia as being "authentic" and "On the Ice/Field" jerseys with a $400.00 retail value.

The jerseys are horrible fakes with real signatures. Rumor has it, the Penguins blacklisted this dealer because of unlicensed fake merchandise etc.

Here are some examples of Steelers and Penguins jerseys they sell. Their deceit is just as bad, if not worse than these other dealers. None, Zero, Ziltch, of their inventory is authentic nor even close.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MAXIME-TALBOT-SIGNED-AUTHENTIC-BLUE-PENGUINS-JERSEY-MAX-/220876350025?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item336d41a249
^Horrible fake blue jersey, not even close.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MARC-ANDRE-FLEURY-SIGNED-PENGUINS-JERSEY-09-STANLEY-CUP-/360402509307?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item53e9a9ddfb
^You got to be kidding me? And a 110+ dollar top bid?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BEN-ROETHLISBERGER-AUTOGRAPH-AUTHENTIC-JERSEY-STEELERS-/370551646493?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item564699691d
^Big Ben? More like OMG Holy garbage looking jersey!!!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/TROY-POLAMALU-AUTOGRAPHED-AUTHENTIC-STEELERS-JERSEY-ST-/220877822942?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item336d581bde
^Lol at the different color white's on this jersey

[kprst6]

maybe someone can explain but what does washing a game worn jersey? i have gotten some that were washed and smelled like tide so either the team uses tide to get the stains out or someone else washed it lol.

Washing it essentially makes an unused jersey look washed. Kind of like taking a brand new shirt and wash it. You can tell the shirt isn't brand new anymore. If you wash a brand new jersey, you can say its game worn, but has no stains etc because it was washed.

[xpress34]

From JO's 'About Us' page:

About J.O. Sports Co LLC

J.O. Sports Co LLC was established in 2003 and launched its online website in 2008.

Among the many facets of game used memorabilia, J.O. Sports Co LLC specializes in NFL team and player deals. Our business model focuses on bringing legitimate game used merchandise to the collecting community.

We are honored to help bring integrity and honesty to the industry by offering authentic game used and autographed memorabilia to collectors. We have built a model that benefits the teams, the players and the fans. Our direct relationship with the teams and players sets us apart from other game used dealers and we will continue to stay focused on being a legitimate source for all of your game used needs.

With the ever-growing need for collectors to find legitimate sources of game used and autographed memorabilia, J.O. Sports Co LLC is proud to establish itself as an industry leader.


did jo sports take a plea agreement? The article implies they may have? If you take a plea your as good as guilty.

The four charged by information with mail fraud, indicating they may have already reached a plea agreement with prosecutors, were:

BERNARD GERNAY, a resident of New Jersey, involved in the business operations of Pro Sports Investments, Inc., a New Jersey business;

BRADLEY HORNE, a South Carolina resident, involved in the business operations of Authentic Sports Memorabilia, Inc., a South Carolina business;

JARROD OLDRIDGE, a resident of Nevada, involved in business operations of JO Sports, Inc., a Nevada business; and,

MITCHELL SCHUMACHER, a resident of Wisconsin, using the trade name MS Sports.


Interesting to note:

From a law blog...

"An information is generally used when a defendant, or potential defendant, agrees that there is enough evidence to proceed with the case, thereby compelling said defendant to appear in court and enter a plea to the information, i.e. charges contained therein, just like an indictment. In agreeing to be prosecuted on an information you are waiving your right to have the case presented to a grand jury.

The advantages are that you are cooperating with the prosecutor in not making them do more work than they want to. It also can serve to keep your case a little quieter. Most courts don't publicize the filing of informations unless someone notifies the media.

The advantages to the prosecutor are many. As pointed out he/she doesn't have to prepare the case for grand jury presentation. He/she doesn't risk the failure of a bill being handed up. He/she relies on you to show up in court as promised. He/she uses the fact that you have admitted that there is evidence to prosecute as leverage to gain a favorable plea."

If I've said it once, I've said it a thousand times... in this industry/hobby, all you have ultimately is your reputation. Once it's tarnished, you can't just 'buff' it back up...

[ivo610]

odds this is tied to the arrest at National?

[BostonSportsFan]

I called Jarrod to see exactly what was going on regarding the article. He was busy but I was told that a JO Sports would be issuing a press release shortly on the matter.

I am guessing the release will address any questions for the members on the forum.

Hope that helps,
Chris


Chris

Can you please provide any updates on when your business associate/partner Jarrod is planning to actually issue this press release? Shortly does not seem to compute with his understanding of that term vs. what others would understand it to mean. Perhaps Jarrod could not come to the phone when you called as he was busy packing up to head out of the country to some location that does not offer extradition back to the USA???

I have it on very good authority from a source on the inside of this investigation that the Feds have invoices of retail jersey's that were purchased by JO that they claim can be followed to a bulk sale to the Panini Card Company. Panini bought hundreds of jersey's from JO with legitimate jerseys mixed in with the purported fakes. This is part of the legal case at hand. I am sure if the Feds find Matt who disappeared from JO employment that he probably saw what was going on. I can't remember the name of Jarrod's other helper at the time who also has left the company.

Who really cares about some slick PR statement that will prove nothing. What exactly would it say. I think Legal mentioned that it is just going to be basic crap as nothing in a pending legal investigation is going to prompt the accused to say anything beyond basic Vanilla garbage in a PR statement.

Let Brad Wells and Mitchell and all the other cockroaches scatter. The lights are on.

Skubebats nailed it by the way. I am glad people are stepping up. Take your hard earned money and give it to charity instead of foolishly lining this man's pockets.

By the way, where exactly is Mr. Bible verse Bernie Gernay?? I know he used to post on here all the time quoting all his Bible verses. I wonder what he has to say now that he has the FEDS breathing down his neck.

Joe

[joelsabi]

odds this is tied to the arrest at National?

unrelated. arrest at national was steve jensen

[Lokee]

New article and follow-up from Sports Collectors Daily

http://www.sportscollectorsdaily.com/fbi-agent-large-numbers-of-jerseys-or-jersey-pieces-in-evidence/

[cubbs1232]

I dont understand how people are sticking up for jo or anyother involved in these cases. The feds tend not to bring bs cases to court and 4 of the 6 basically pleaded guilty,if im reading the charges right. Who cares if it was one jersey, which I highly doubt, or thousands of jerseys youre still a crook who further damaged this hobby and broke the law.

Say jo did this before he landed the nfl contracts, what would he be doing if he didnt get those? Probably still making fakes. Thats what scumbags do.

Theres 2 types of people I can't stand thieves and liers, and in my eyes, jo and the others are both.

Regards,
Korey

[Jeffredsfan]

Say it ain't so, JO.

[freddiefreeman5]

I dont understand how people are sticking up for jo or anyother involved in these cases.

Regards,
Korey
It could be the same reason people stick up for the roiders in baseball, their collections.

[SaintsGeaux]

Chris

Can you please provide any updates on when your business associate/partner Jarrod is planning to actually issue this press release? Shortly does not seem to compute with his understanding of that term vs. what others would understand it to mean. Perhaps Jarrod could not come to the phone when you called as he was busy packing up to head out of the country to some location that does not offer extradition back to the USA???


Who really cares about some slick PR statement that will prove nothing. What exactly would it say. I think Legal mentioned that it is just going to be basic crap as nothing in a pending legal investigation is going to prompt the accused to say anything beyond basic Vanilla garbage in a PR statement.

Let Brad Wells and Mitchell and all the other cockroaches scatter. The lights are on.

Skubebats nailed it by the way. I am glad people are stepping up. Take your hard earned money and give it to charity instead of foolishly lining this man's pockets.

By the way, where exactly is Mr. Bible verse Bernie Gernay?? I know he used to post on here all the time quoting all his Bible verses. I wonder what he has to say now that he has the FEDS breathing down his neck.

Joe

I don't know Chris but I think it is unfair to bring his prior relationships with JO up at this point. I am sure Chris and his team will cut all ties with JO. If you live long enough you will inevitably come in contact with people who go to the dark side. I don't even want to hear that he changed his ways and this happened before his NFL contracts. As Lokee wrote, improprieties are still occurring.

Also perfectly said by Freddie in Post #101.

I just wish Victor Moreno, Lou Lampson, Coaches Corner and Bricol all got honorable mentions in the SCD article.

[SkubeBats]

Schumacher (masauction) is still selling at this time on EBAY. Wouldn't you think he would stop selling after this.

Next you'll see JO Sports back on here selling their stuff. Their website is still up and running and their still selling items.

How many times or how much trouble do these guys need to get into before they leave our hobby for good.

I wonder what will happen when the NFL finds out about this. Will JO still be able to buy from the teams like they have been able to???

Enough is enough stop standing up for these idiots. All their doing is giving our hobby a bad name.

GUU do your part and cut ties with these clowns!!

I bet this is the start of things to come. What other companies, authenticators, and people will be busted next??

[legaleagle92481]

I think some posters are confusing the issue here. This issue is not if YOUR jerseys are real or that you had a good experience dealing with JO. What these people did is the equivalent of an investment guy running a Ponzi scheme or an autograph guy forging autographs. Bernie Madoff was a brilliant man who made a fortune in the investment business but yet still ran the world's largest ponzi scheme. Stans Sports was a highly successful autograph business that sold many, many legitimate autographs but still chose to get into the forgery business. Merely because someone is successful does not make them immune to doing illegal things to make more money. If Madoff was to get released from jail and start another investment firm would you invest with him? If Stans started selling autographs again would you buy from them? Or put another way would you buy an autograph with a Stans COA on the secondary market? Even if the signature looked good to you? I sure wouldn't because you can never be 100% certain photomatches are great but and I am maybe an overly skeptical person if the match is too a specific grass stain or dirt mark who is to say they didn't doctor the jersey to create the match? They have the same access to photos as everyone else. Also most of us will not have collections that pass down throughout the generations and at some point us or our heirs will sell our stuff. If the JO name is associated with fake stuff even if they completely cleaned up their act when they started becoming successful that is likely to make many potential buyers steer clear of the item or want to pay less for it than they would have before this came out. So we as collectors are the ultimate losers as our items and even if we don't want to think of it that way but our investments are greatly devalued. The fact that the teams and some players sell stuff to them does not mean a thing. Brad Wells another defendant ran ASI and if you recall ASI used to tout their exclusive player relationships for autographs and game used stuff with Pudge, Arod, Sosa, Manny and several other major stars. The teams and players only see green and will sell to anyone who offers them a good deal in many cases. I doubt any of these teams took the time to investigate JO's background in anyway. However, my guess is since the only thing teams worry about more than money is bad publicity when they find out if they have not already they will do damage control and immediately sever their relationships with him.

[BarryMeisel]

Hello everybody,
While MeiGray was saddened to learn of yesterday’s news out of Rockland, Illinois regarding the indictment of six game-worn jersey dealers, we applaud the Federal Bureau of Investigation for its four-year investigation into fraud in the sports memorabilia industry, especially now that the investigation has focused on game-worn jerseys.
Since our inception in 1997, MeiGray has been committed to absolute authenticity. As Official Authenticators for the NHL since 2002 and the NBA since 2006, we have worked tirelessly with these leagues and their teams to ensure that collectors get exactly what they pay for.
We reaffirm our commitment to doing so for each and every one of our clients. We invite you to learn more about MeiGray’s approach to Game-Worn Jersey Authentication and our MeiGrade Registration System by visiting our website and clicking on the MeiGray Authenticated link.
You’ll learn how we approach Authentication, how we determine an item is eligible for registration into our system, and why we can offer a 100% Lifetime Money Back Guarantee on every item we sell, authenticate and register, if the item is ever deemed not to be authentic.
It is not difficult for us to do this, because working with the leagues and teams, and relying on our authentication system and expertise, we know what’s real. We know how to prove a jersey is exactly what it is supposed to be.
And we are committed to standing behind that Guarantee … For Life.
Respectfully,

Barry Meisel
President and Chief Operating Officer
MeiGray Group, LLC

[ivo610]

SCD should contact all the teams involved with JO and ask for comment about their relationship. Would be interesting to hear if they are as chummy as JO made them out to be.

[buckeyegamers]

Hello everybody,
While MeiGray was saddened to learn of yesterday’s news out of Rockland, Illinois regarding the indictment of six game-worn jersey dealers, we applaud the Federal Bureau of Investigation for its four-year investigation into fraud in the sports memorabilia industry, especially now that the investigation has focused on game-worn jerseys.
Since our inception in 1997, MeiGray has been committed to absolute authenticity. As Official Authenticators for the NHL since 2002 and the NBA since 2006, we have worked tirelessly with these leagues and their teams to ensure that collectors get exactly what they pay for.
We reaffirm our commitment to doing so for each and every one of our clients. We invite you to learn more about MeiGray’s approach to Game-Worn Jersey Authentication and our MeiGrade Registration System by visiting our website and clicking on the MeiGray Authenticated link.
You’ll learn how we approach Authentication, how we determine an item is eligible for registration into our system, and why we can offer a 100% Lifetime Money Back Guarantee on every item we sell, authenticate and register, if the item is ever deemed not to be authentic.
It is not difficult for us to do this, because working with the leagues and teams, and relying on our authentication system and expertise, we know what’s real. We know how to prove a jersey is exactly what it is supposed to be.
And we are committed to standing behind that Guarantee … For Life.
Respectfully,

Barry Meisel
President and Chief Operating Officer
MeiGray Group, LLC

Barry, I have bought several of your Giants and Eagles jerseys in the past. In light of these issues in the industry, any chance that you will be getting more into NFL jerseys in the future?

[SaintsGeaux]

Hello everybody,
While MeiGray was saddened to learn of yesterday’s news out of Rockland, Illinois regarding the indictment of six game-worn jersey dealers, we applaud the Federal Bureau of Investigation for its four-year investigation into fraud in the sports memorabilia industry, especially now that the investigation has focused on game-worn jerseys.
Since our inception in 1997, MeiGray has been committed to absolute authenticity. As Official Authenticators for the NHL since 2002 and the NBA since 2006, we have worked tirelessly with these leagues and their teams to ensure that collectors get exactly what they pay for.
We reaffirm our commitment to doing so for each and every one of our clients. We invite you to learn more about MeiGray’s approach to Game-Worn Jersey Authentication and our MeiGrade Registration System by visiting our website and clicking on the MeiGray Authenticated link.
You’ll learn how we approach Authentication, how we determine an item is eligible for registration into our system, and why we can offer a 100% Lifetime Money Back Guarantee on every item we sell, authenticate and register, if the item is ever deemed not to be authentic.
It is not difficult for us to do this, because working with the leagues and teams, and relying on our authentication system and expertise, we know what’s real. We know how to prove a jersey is exactly what it is supposed to be.
And we are committed to standing behind that Guarantee … For Life.
Respectfully,

Barry Meisel
President and Chief Operating Officer
MeiGray Group, LLC

Barry, I don't know you either and find your tone and message as an infommercial for your system. I don't see other dealers coming on and gloating and self-promoting.

There are dozens of honest dealers and many had to leave the hobby as the honorable approach costs money. Upper Deck Authenticated, MLB Authenticated are as good as it gets and thats why it costs more.

Unfortunately if you collect the Saints and Packers you don't find ironclad authenticity. It is difficult so you put your faith in JO only to find they are pond scum.

I live in Washington DC now and switching to baseball and MLB Authenticated only.

[BarryMeisel]

Hi Buckeye,

We are regularly talking to teams and leagues about future deals ... but please do not infer anything from that statement. That is my stock answer when asked questions like these, because MeiGray does not disclose its conversations before there are official announcements to make.

Also, it would be insensitive and premature to comment specifically on any future NFL deals in lights of the recent events.

Respectfully,

Barry

[ivo610]

Barry, I don't know you either and find your tone and message as an infommercial for your system. I don't see other dealers coming on and gloating and self-promoting.

There are dozens of honest dealers and many had to leave the hobby as the honorable approach costs money. Upper Deck Authenticated, MLB Authenticated are as good as it gets and thats why it costs more.

Unfortunately if you collect the Saints and Packers you don't find ironclad authenticity. It is difficult so you put your faith in JO only to find they are pond scum.

I live in Washington DC now and switching to baseball and MLB Authenticated only.

About 1/2 of my Packers jerseys have what I would call ironclad authenticity. Coming from the team or a letter from Red will do it for me as far as authenticity.

I am pretty sure Upper Deck authenticity has had some issues in the past.

[Gocong57]

Thanks Barry for keeping up the integrity of the hobby from your retail end.

[SaintsGeaux]

About 1/2 of my Packers jerseys have what I would call ironclad authenticity. Coming from the team or a letter from Red will do it for me as far as authenticity.

I am pretty sure Upper Deck authenticity has had some issues in the past.

Don't confuse the UpperDeck Cards division problems with UDA. Upper Deck Authenticated has an amazing system in place.

[trsent]

About 1/2 of my Packers jerseys have what I would call ironclad authenticity. Coming from the team or a letter from Red will do it for me as far as authenticity.

I am pretty sure Upper Deck authenticity has had some issues in the past.


Don't confuse the UpperDeck Cards division problems with UDA. Upper Deck Authenticated has an amazing system in place.

Well said. Upper Deck Authenticated has an amazing 5-point system for witnessing and verifying autographed being signed for them. They have done a little in the game used market, but not very much. They are more based on in-the-presence autograph verification.

[ivo610]

Don't confuse the UpperDeck Cards division problems with UDA. Upper Deck Authenticated has an amazing system in place.

Yes I know the difference, not my first time around the block. I have had to send stuff back to them before. At least I can say they were a pleasure to deal with when I returned something.

[otismalibu]

Really, this is amazing?

We are unable to locate BAG***** in our hologram database.
Older hologram numbers and hologram numbers from shows
have not been transferred over to our on-line database as of yet.

[allstarsplus]

Really, this is amazing?

We are unable to locate BAG***** in our hologram database.
Older hologram numbers and hologram numbers from shows
have not been transferred over to our on-line database as of yet.

That's a good point. Still UDA for autographs is the best system out there.

[dplettn]

I wonder what will happen when the NFL finds out about this.

Some of the NFL's member clubs may have been wise enough to get clauses in their contracts with JO Sports which will void their contracts under certain circumstances. But, by and large, there was intelligence (not speaking to integrity) in market pricing dynamics built into the distribution model in so much that JO assured themselves monopolistic pricing power in their team contracts. Sure, some items still would make it to NFL auctions (where traffic/demand far outpaced limited supply) but JO appeared to have eliminated other retail distribution.

So, now, NFL member organizations which failed to do their DD on JO Sports now will find their options limited to the clauses they got into the deals they signed. In some cases, the fans who have in recent times been adversely affected by JO's virtual monopoly will still find themselves forced to either deal with JO, or wait out the contracts' expiration.

At the end of the day, the NFL's member organizations should have been less focused on the benefits of the enhanced revenues that derived from JO's virtual monopoly on distribution, and more focused on the ultimate risk of marrying their brand to JO's. I'm not suggesting teams should have anticipated this particular bad outcome, but they certainly could have anticipated the array of potential bad outcomes and considered that there were no grassroots benefit to their franchises in marrying their brands to JO.

We can all observe the Pittsburgh Steelers weren't quick to jump on the "lets push it throuh JO" bandwagon. One of the best and smartest brands in the NFL. Maybe too conservative, but great risk-management.

[SaintsGeaux]

Some of the NFL's member clubs may have been wise enough to get clauses in their contracts with JO Sports which will void their contracts under certain circumstances. But, by and large, there was intelligence (not speaking to integrity) in market pricing dynamics built into the distribution model in so much that JO assured themselves monopolistic pricing power in their team contracts. Sure, some items still would make it to NFL auctions (where traffic/demand far outpaced limited supply) but JO appeared to have eliminated other retail distribution.

So, now, NFL member organizations which failed to do their DD on JO Sports now will find their options limited to the clauses they got into the deals they signed. In some cases, the fans who have in recent times been adversely affected by JO's virtual monopoly will still find themselves forced to either deal with JO, or wait out the contracts' expiration.

At the end of the day, the NFL's member organizations should have been less focused on the benefits of the enhanced revenues that derived from JO's virtual monopoly on distribution, and more focused on the ultimate risk of marrying their brand to JO's. I'm not suggesting teams should have anticipated this particular bad outcome, but they certainly could have anticipated the array of potential bad outcomes and considered that there were no grassroots benefit to their franchises in marrying their brands to JO.

We can all observe the Pittsburgh Steelers weren't quick to jump on the "lets push it throuh JO" bandwagon. One of the best and smartest brands in the NFL. Maybe too conservative, but great risk-management.

Good points made and give credit to JO for getting the teams as it can't be easy and I congratulate JO more than that for screwing up the integrity in the NFL market.

As you mentioned "monopolistic pricing power" you are correct and you hope supply and demand dynamics keep the collector from being taking advantage of.

I went to the MeiGray site Mr. Meisel advertised above and it looks like he has team control monopolies also. Since he has an arrangement with the Washington Capitals I checked out the top player, Ovechkin. He lists jersey preorders for $7,500 to $7,995 and a playoff Set 3 for $8,888 and it was worn a few games.

Monopolistic pricing power aside, you have to be filthy stinking rich to buy that. No wonder Mr. Meisel can boast about his inventory control and internal control systems.

[allstarsplus]

Good points made and give credit to JO for getting the teams as it can't be easy and I congratulate JO more than that for screwing up the integrity in the NFL market.

As you mentioned "monopolistic pricing power" you are correct and you hope supply and demand dynamics keep the collector from being taking advantage of.

I went to the MeiGray site Mr. Meisel advertised above and it looks like he has team control monopolies also. Since he has an arrangement with the Washington Capitals I checked out the top player, Ovechkin. He lists jersey preorders for $7,500 to $7,995 and a playoff Set 3 for $8,888 and it was worn a few games.

Monopolistic pricing power aside, you have to be filthy stinking rich to buy that. No wonder Mr. Meisel can boast about his inventory control and internal control systems.

Not sure why you appear to be knocking MeiGray on their pricing, I can tell you from experience that the Ovechkins sell very well at that price. They have lower priced jerseys of other players.

You said it earlier, supply/demand. I'm not sure how many years MeiGray has handled the Capitals, it has been many years. You don't see too many Ovechkins from previous seasons.

You have to price your players according to scale.

[SaintsGeaux]

Not sure why you appear to be knocking MeiGray on their pricing, I can tell you from experience that the Ovechkins sell very well at that price. They have lower priced jerseys of other players.

You said it earlier, supply/demand. I'm not sure how many years MeiGray has handled the Capitals, it has been many years. You don't see too many Ovechkins from previous seasons.

You have to price your players according to scale.

I wasn't knocking them, just more shocked at how expensive his jerseys are. He should be pleased with the free advertising we just did for him as this blog appears to be getting massive page views.

By the way, where is the Press Release we were told was coming "shortly". That was over 24 hours ago.

Some stooge on Wilshire couldn't spin this enough for me although I can see Palehose is ready to forgive and forget.

[BarryMeisel]

Andrew,

MeiGray has had an exclusive working relationship with the Washington Capitals since the 2002-03 NHL season.

MeiGray has sold 76 game-worn Alexander Ovechkin jerseys since he debuted with the Caps in 2005-06. Those jerseys include two donated for charity and worn in one game each: In 2006-07 for Garth Brooks Teammates for Kids (sold for $6,020 via auction) and in 2007-08 for Hockey Fights Cancer (sold for $9,020 via auction).

The lowest price paid for an Ovy gamer was $4,500. We sold three early-season rookie jerseys for that price in the winter of 2005, before he became the NHL Superstar he is today, including his NHL Debut jersey.

The highest price we got for an Ovy gamer was $20,505 for the jersey Ovechkin wore in during the second period of the 2011 Winter Classic.

[Ripken]

Just an FYI...the linked article was originally published in Sports Collectors Daily, not Sports Collectors Digest. They are 2 different entities.

[solarlottry]

I heard that it was in JO's best interest NOT to issue any statements until their attorneys have reviewed everything and given the go ahead to do so. It is like the right to remain silent, I guess but in this case silence is not good. When his main business is providing a product that is based on trust and that trust is broken or blurred in any way, it is hard or almost impossible to regain.

I would think it is a matter of time before people and teams start cutting ties with them. I wonder if a team or player drops off their board if it indicates that their deal has been severed?

Paul

[bruno89]

Meigray is one of the best out there for me.
The jerseys are always awesome and i never question where they come from ,the staff is great to deal with and have amazing patiente sometimes too.
Their prices to me are fair and if i dont think they are ,they able to lower the price most of the times and work with you on payments ,the best company to deal with in my experience as a collector,specially because im a Eagles collector =)

[legaleagle92481]

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/iteam/2011/10/25/2011-10-25_sports_memorabilia_dealers_charged_in_bogus_gam eused_jersey_scheme_ending_4year_.html

Another article on this from the New York Daily News.

[dcgreg25]

Andrew,

MeiGray has had an exclusive working relationship with the Washington Capitals since the 2002-03 NHL season.

MeiGray has sold 76 game-worn Alexander Ovechkin jerseys since he debuted with the Caps in 2005-06. Those jerseys include two donated for charity and worn in one game each: In 2006-07 for Garth Brooks Teammates for Kids (sold for $6,020 via auction) and in 2007-08 for Hockey Fights Cancer (sold for $9,020 via auction).

The lowest price paid for an Ovy gamer was $4,500. We sold three early-season rookie jerseys for that price in the winter of 2005, before he became the NHL Superstar he is today, including his NHL Debut jersey.

The highest price we got for an Ovy gamer was $20,505 for the jersey Ovechkin wore in during the second period of the 2011 Winter Classic.

What a great response. Speaking as a collector this is the type of transarancy I would love to see from other organizations that have team contracts. Your prices are what they are and at least collectors have a sense in where they stand in relation to the current market and other jerseys you have sold. There is money to be made in this business and I appreciate the respect MeiGray has for their customers.

[allstarsplus]

Andrew,

MeiGray has had an exclusive working relationship with the Washington Capitals since the 2002-03 NHL season.

MeiGray has sold 76 game-worn Alexander Ovechkin jerseys since he debuted with the Caps in 2005-06. Those jerseys include two donated for charity and worn in one game each: In 2006-07 for Garth Brooks Teammates for Kids (sold for $6,020 via auction) and in 2007-08 for Hockey Fights Cancer (sold for $9,020 via auction).

The lowest price paid for an Ovy gamer was $4,500. We sold three early-season rookie jerseys for that price in the winter of 2005, before he became the NHL Superstar he is today, including his NHL Debut jersey.

The highest price we got for an Ovy gamer was $20,505 for the jersey Ovechkin wore in during the second period of the 2011 Winter Classic.

Barry, perfect! It also proves my point of supply and demand. I didn't mention exclusivity or static pricing dynamics. So for 10 straight years you have handled the Caps and throughout Ovechkin's entire tenure.

[SaintsGeaux]

Thanks Barry. AllstarsPlus - when you have team exclusivity you basically have a monopoly of that team. Whether the Ovechkin sells isn't the issue as the price could be $1,000 and the demand would be greater. Barry priced lower early in his carrer and has ratcheted up prices every year. If he hits market saturation, won't he have to drop prices?

I know we are off topic now. I wish Barry well and hope he never trades profits for poor ethics.

[TNTtoys]

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=10331

Is this the same Inselberg of Ranzino Smith to Michael Jordan infamy?

Andrew,

Yes. Same guy. Confirmed by the Daily News article today. Ver batim:

<<The defendants include Eric Inselberg (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Eric+Inselberg), a New Jersey (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/New+Jersey) dealer linked to a North Carolina (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/North+Carolina+Tar+Heels+%28Basketball%29) warm-up jersey sold at a 2007 Mastro Auction for $11,000. Mastro executives claimed the jersey had once belong to Michael Jordan (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Michael+Jordan).

.
.
.

The Daily News reported in August 2007 that Mastro employees sent the "Jordan" shirt and other items to Memorabilia Evaluation and Research Services, one of the hobby’s leading authentication services, for review before the auction at the National that year. The company concluded that while the jersey appeared to be a legitimate North Carolina shooting shirt from the 1980s, it did not belong to Jordan.
When the shirt was placed over a light table, it was apparent that another name had been removed from the back and replaced with "JORDAN." The letters also seemed to be made of different materials than other patches on the piece, according to the MEARS work sheet.


>>

Nick

[TNTtoys]

From the original release
"Each defendant was allegedly involved in a business engaged in the purchase and sale of sports memorabilia, and the schemes are alleged to have taken place in Rockford and several other states."

Isn't Exclusive Pro in Rockford, Illinois?


Eric,

Exclusive Pro might be located in Rockford, IL but I for one think that is completely a coincidence.

In reading the following 2 paragraphs, I gathered that the Federal Prosecutors' Office was located in Rockford --

<<Six sports memorabilia dealers have been charged with selling hundreds of bogus game-used jerseys to trading card companies and other buyers, federal prosecutors in Rockford (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Rockford), Ill., announced Tuesday.>>

<<A press release issued by the office of Patrick J. Fitzgerald (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Patrick+Fitzgerald), the U.S. Attorney for the Northern District of Illinois (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Illinois), says the defendants obtained hundreds of jerseys from retail outlets and other sources, and then scuffed them up to make them appear to have game-used wear and tear.>>

I don't think it gets into where the retail outlets were located, but if any of these defendants went ahead and bought their jerseys at a retail outlet such as Exclusive Pro, it is what they did to the jerseys afterwards that was the criminal act (as per 2nd paragraph above).

[freddiefreeman5]

What is a lifetime guarentee?

For the life of the company?
For the life of the owner of the item?
For the life of the item?
Until the company decides that lifetime guarentee's are no longer honored?
Until Snoopy comes home?

[allstarsplus]

Eric,

Exclusive Pro might be located in Rockford, IL but I for one think that is completely a coincidence.

In reading the following 2 paragraphs, I gathered that the Federal Prosecutors' Office was located in Rockford --

<<Six sports memorabilia dealers have been charged with selling hundreds of bogus game-used jerseys to trading card companies and other buyers, federal prosecutors in Rockford (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Rockford), Ill., announced Tuesday.>>

<<A press release issued by the office of Patrick J. Fitzgerald (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Patrick+Fitzgerald), the U.S. Attorney for the Northern District of Illinois (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Illinois), says the defendants obtained hundreds of jerseys from retail outlets and other sources, and then scuffed them up to make them appear to have game-used wear and tear.>>

I don't think it gets into where the retail outlets were located, but if any of these defendants went ahead and bought their jerseys at a retail outlet such as Exclusive Pro, it is what they did to the jerseys afterwards that was the criminal act (as per 2nd paragraph above).

It could be a coincidence and this has nothing to do with Exclusive Pro doing anything wrong. They make excellent custom authentic jerseys.

The tie-in is a rumor that links many of these dealers in the 6 that were charged by the FBI to purchasing "custom" jerseys from the same place which is ___________________ and re-selling them as Game Used.

I have also heard the rumor that Boston Sports Fan wrote about with the sports card tie-ins. You can read some of the sports cards blogs as they are weighing in on this also.

[Birdbats]

What is a lifetime guarentee?

For the life of the company?
For the life of the owner of the item?
For the life of the item?
Until the company decides that lifetime guarentee's are no longer honored?
Until Snoopy comes home?

Whitey Herzog said Cardinals owner Gussie Busch once offered Whitey a lifetime contract. Whitey's response: "Your lifetime or mine?" :)

[34swtns]

Seems like there's a lot of "piling on" happening in this thread.....before any determination of guilt or innocence has even been made.

I've done business with JO Sports for over 2 years now and have never encountered any issues regarding authenticity whatsoever. Quite the contrary, I can generally photomatch any item from their inventory that I'm interested in long before any purchase is made.

Robert Kovacs has been my JO representative from the beginning and is a study in courtesy and professionalism. So, while others may seem to want to rush to judgement, I have nothing but positive things to say about a company that has been instrumental in the building of my Bears collection and are largely responsible for its contents today.

[allstarsplus]

Andrew,

Yes. Same guy. Confirmed by the Daily News article today. Ver batim:

<<The defendants include Eric Inselberg (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Eric+Inselberg), a New Jersey (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/New+Jersey) dealer linked to a North Carolina (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/North+Carolina+Tar+Heels+%28Basketball%29) warm-up jersey sold at a 2007 Mastro Auction for $11,000. Mastro executives claimed the jersey had once belong to Michael Jordan (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Michael+Jordan).

Nick

Truly amazing and my friend Jim Reed was the one that unfoiled that. He was the one who got the Ranzino Smith warm-up from Smith and sold it and kept photos and identified it as the same one when it went to auction as a Michael Jordan.

What is strange to me in the complaint against Jarrod Oldridge, it names Inselberg in that same complaint.

This whole thing is surreal.

[freddiefreeman5]

Whitey Herzog said Cardinals owner Gussie Busch once offered Whitey a lifetime contract. Whitey's response: "Your lifetime or mine?" :)
Classic Whitey Herzog. :)

[SaintsGeaux]

Seems like there's a lot of "piling on" happening in this thread.....before any determination of guilt or innocence has even been made.

I've done business with JO Sports for over 2 years now and have never encountered any issues regarding authenticity whatsoever. Quite the contrary, I can generally photomatch any item from their inventory that I'm interested in long before any purchase is made.

Robert Kovacs has been my JO representative from the beginning and is a study in courtesy and professionalism. So, while others may seem to want to rush to judgement, I have nothing but positive things to say about a company that has been instrumental in the building of my Bears collection and are largely responsible for its contents today.

I disagree with you. Where is there piling on? My rep told me they have THOUSANDS of loyal customers of which you are one. A few people state "trust but verify".

Would I personally do business with Oldridge again or JO. Not in your lifetime!

[Preston]

I heard that it was in JO's best interest NOT to issue any statements until their attorneys have reviewed everything and given the go ahead to do so.

Understatement of the year. I'd be surprised if they even did release a presser. They're beyond damage control at this point.

[SaintsGeaux]

So are you saying that the Bears Team LOA that each game used jersey is accompanied with is no good??? That is the case with those jersey's as well as other teams!!! You dont need a JO LOA to feel good if you dont want, a team LOA from the Chicago Bears, signed personally by Tony Medlin the head Equipment manager that has been with the team for many years, is that rock solid provenance enough for you??? Just saying...;)

I know nothing about the Bears. LOAs are paper. I want provenance.

Look no further to a few years ago when the Brett Favre jersey problems came to light. People freaked out who owned them.

When a company you have bought from is named like JO, darn right collectors should be shaking in their boots!

[SaintsGeaux]

I meant to say provenance, a photo match and maybe a signed LOA from the athlete like LockerRoomMemorabilia used to do with the athlete holding the item.

[BarryMeisel]

SaintGeaux,

I can assure that MeiGray will never compromise its ethics for profits. In fact, I created MeiGray in 1997 because I saw a void in the industry.

My mantra to the first teams with which I signed contracts in 1997-98 (New York Rangers, New York Giants, New Jersey Devils) was that there was a growing game-worn jersey industry desperately in need of a company licensed and endorsed by the teams ... to protect the collectors who were spending good money from items that were not being properly authenticated, or were outright fakes.

I insisted on contractual agreements and letters from the teams for public display confirming these agreements.

I insisted on an authentication system that allowed us to check the items we were selling on behalf of the teams, before we put them out for sale, with the team's letter of authenticity behind them. We knew there was a difference between game worn and game issued. We didn't expect the teams to understand. We felt it was our job, in this role we were undertaking, to do right by collectors by distinguishing game issues from game worns coming out of the locker rooms.

And when I introduced our company, I made it clear (and still believe this today), that we will earn the profits we deserve by serving the collecting community efficiently, with the respect they deserved. And it didn't matter if they were buying a $100 game-issued jersey or a $7,500 Ovechkin.

Our pricing reflects our desire to make a fair profit (no different than any business in our capitalist system) by providing a necessary service and accurately reflecting the game-worn jersey market.

If we did not accurately price our jerseys, we would not be selling enough to make a profit. But since 1997 I have established the MeiGray strategy and steadfastly maintained that we can be successful by providing accurate pricing in the market, and providing an unparalleled level of absolute authenticity.

That is our promise to the hobby, and it an uncompromised promise we have made since 1997.

FreddieFreeman5, I am not sure if you are being facetious ... but I will promise you that it is easy to give a lifetime guarantee when you are 100% sure the items you sell are 100% legitimate.

Lifetime means the life of the item, and the life of the company as long as I am in charge.

I can't promise what will happen after I die, except that there will be one MeiGray Registrated Item, MGS No. 100001, a game-worn jersey from my personal collection, that's going in my coffin (1994 NY Rangers Stanley Cup Finals Game 7 Craig MacTavish, but that's another story).

Respectfully,

Barry

[trsent]

I can't promise what will happen after I die, except that there will be one MeiGray Registrated Item, MGS No. 100001, a game-worn jersey from my personal collection, that's going in my coffin (1994 NY Rangers Stanley Cup Finals Game 7 Craig MacTavish, but that's another story).

Respectfully,

Barry

Barry, where will you be laid to rest again?

[SaintsGeaux]

Barry, very impressive. I think the other lesson is don't bite off more than you can chew. Company growth like yours is so dependent on you and the people you hire and train.

[freddiefreeman5]

SaintGeaux,

FreddieFreeman5, I am not sure if you are being facetious ... but I will promise you that it is easy to give a lifetime guarantee when you are 100% sure the items you sell are 100% legitimate.

Lifetime means the life of the item, and the life of the company as long as I am in charge.


I don't think my comments were inappropiate so no I was not being facetious.
I did think the Snoopy comment was funny though.

[BrianK]

I'm hoping for a fire sale at JO.


Some of the NFL's member clubs may have been wise enough to get clauses in their contracts with JO Sports which will void their contracts under certain circumstances. But, by and large, there was intelligence (not speaking to integrity) in market pricing dynamics built into the distribution model in so much that JO assured themselves monopolistic pricing power in their team contracts. Sure, some items still would make it to NFL auctions (where traffic/demand far outpaced limited supply) but JO appeared to have eliminated other retail distribution.

So, now, NFL member organizations which failed to do their DD on JO Sports now will find their options limited to the clauses they got into the deals they signed. In some cases, the fans who have in recent times been adversely affected by JO's virtual monopoly will still find themselves forced to either deal with JO, or wait out the contracts' expiration.

At the end of the day, the NFL's member organizations should have been less focused on the benefits of the enhanced revenues that derived from JO's virtual monopoly on distribution, and more focused on the ultimate risk of marrying their brand to JO's. I'm not suggesting teams should have anticipated this particular bad outcome, but they certainly could have anticipated the array of potential bad outcomes and considered that there were no grassroots benefit to their franchises in marrying their brands to JO.

We can all observe the Pittsburgh Steelers weren't quick to jump on the "lets push it throuh JO" bandwagon. One of the best and smartest brands in the NFL. Maybe too conservative, but great risk-management.

[jhunt28]

Seems like there's a lot of "piling on" happening in this thread.....before any determination of guilt or innocence has even been made.

I've done business with JO Sports for over 2 years now and have never encountered any issues regarding authenticity whatsoever. Quite the contrary, I can generally photomatch any item from their inventory that I'm interested in long before any purchase is made.

Robert Kovacs has been my JO representative from the beginning and is a study in courtesy and professionalism. So, while others may seem to want to rush to judgement, I have nothing but positive things to say about a company that has been instrumental in the building of my Bears collection and are largely responsible for its contents today.

Finally, someone from the other side of the fence. It's great to have you here, it's lonely on this end!! I have been reading this entire thread, and I'm starting to lose sight of reality. I have also read somewhere in here that someone is now skeptical of photomatches, because they think that JO is now using photomatching sites to doctor jerseys???

I mean seriously...do some of you think that JO Sports Co receives boxes of game issued jerseys, and then proceeds to have a team of runners wear them to get them sweaty and smelly? And then have a group of people put on those same jerseys to go play football in the backyard, to give them ball marks, hit marks, grass, mud, and turf stains? Then once the game is over, everyone takes their "fabricated" game issued jerseys to a group of seamstresses who manufacture team repairs, and also add any further customizations for each specific player on the roster?

Clearly I'm being cynical...but do some of you really think that 100% of what is sold on the JO Sports website is fake?? And do you think that every equipment manager from each NFL team they have a contract with is in on the scam too? Seems like a hell of a lot of work in order to turn some game issued jerseys into game worn, no???

And does anyone even know the details of this case? Can anyone speak intelligently as to JO's involvment in this case? All that I have seen are people making insane accusations about how everything JO sells is fake, and that people don't put any faith in team LOA/COA's, or photomatches.

Let's use this example: Person A knows someone at a Card Company (Person C) who wants to buy a game worn jeresey in order to cut into pieces. Person B knows how to get in touch with Person C at the Card Company. Person A uses Person B as a middle man, and Person C at the Card Company gets what they think is a game worn jersey, cut it up into pieces and put into baseball cards. The jersey coming from Person A was a retail or game issued jersey. Person C thought it was game used. Person C cuts the jersey into pieces and sells is as a game worn insert. This scenario is entirely possible...but it doesn't seem to me like everything person B now touches should be considered fake, does it?

Just a few thoughts...now let the abuse begin!!!

[BarryMeisel]

Freddie,

I did not say your comments were inappropriate, I said I was not sure if you were being facetious ... meaning I was not sure if you meant it literally, or were typing with tongue in cheek.

Barry

[project 4]

I wonder, so if we have recently purchased from JO, does that mean we get our money back for falsifying information?

[freddiefreeman5]

Freddie,

I did not say your comments were inappropriate, I said I was not sure if you were being facetious ... meaning I was not sure if you meant it literally, or were typing with tongue in cheek.

Barry
Just tongue in cheek. No hard feelings here, I trust your integrity.

I always thought facetious meant inappropriate jesting. :confused:

[gingi79]

Obviously, not everything JO sells is fake. I have seen plenty of authentic photomatched jerseys for sale on their site.

The issue is (As I read it at least): The FBI has proof JO sold jerseys with manufactured wear. (According to the notes in this thread and the articles in national newspapers) If this is so, your company is now hanging out in the Lou Lampson side of the pool.

Whether it is one jersey or 500, it is the same thing to many collectors. Once you take a shirt and knowingly misrepresent it, collectors will abandon your company in droves. You lose integrity, you lose respect and in a hobby as tight knit as ours, it isn't something that just goes away. Even Lou Lampson was right on some jerseys.

MeiGray's business model is untouchable. People may not agree with their prices or feel they had some influence on sets or wear or other sour grapes but I have NEVER heard of a fake or added wear jersey coming from them. They are transparent, provide access to every single tag number on their website without having to contact the company and give details on wear dates. The few times people have had issue, MeiGray did right by them at Barry's expense.

My last note on pricing. JO takes flak for the $20k Sanchez and the low end jerseys starting higher than the hobby feels is sane. The Oven-Chicken example with MeiGray just illustrates how different the high ends in hockey are versus football. MeiGray sold 40 JERSEYS at $7500. That means the price scale is in collector norms. Others may think it is high but the market begs to differ.

[34swtns]

I wonder, so if we have recently purchased from JO, does that mean we get our money back for falsifying information?

That's ridiculous.

[cubbs1232]

That's ridiculous.

how is that? They justify their prices by offering 100% legit jerseys now that its not the case, those jerseys,imo, aren't worth what they were.

[jhunt28]

how is that? They justify their prices by offering 100% legit jerseys now that its not the case, those jerseys,imo, aren't worth what they were.


Why is it "not the case" anymore? This is getting insane...not a single person on this thread has brought any photographic, or tangible evidence that something that they had purchased from JO Sports was not authentic. These charges are stemming from an incident, in which NO ONE knows the details of, and was before JO even had a website.

[Gocong57]

I once saw a news report where identity thieves paid amphetamine addicts to go through office trash and assemble bags and bags of shredded documents to extract a small piece of personal info. Arduous work that fit the additcts' temperament. I thought that was crazy, the lengths folks would go to make money illegally.

Rubbing jerseys in dirt, ripping them, paying someone to work out and sweat in, taking a hockey stick and edge-burring the material--all to make an ordinary scrub's game-issued into a star player gamer of much ehanced value and potential profitability is most certainly not out of the question, esp. during these financially desperate times.



Finally, someone from the other side of the fence. It's great to have you here, it's lonely on this end!! I have been reading this entire thread, and I'm starting to lose sight of reality. I have also read somewhere in here that someone is now skeptical of photomatches, because they think that JO is now using photomatching sites to doctor jerseys???

I mean seriously...do some of you think that JO Sports Co receives boxes of game issued jerseys, and then proceeds to have a team of runners wear them to get them sweaty and smelly? And then have a group of people put on those same jerseys to go play football in the backyard, to give them ball marks, hit marks, grass, mud, and turf stains? Then once the game is over, everyone takes their "fabricated" game issued jerseys to a group of seamstresses who manufacture team repairs, and also add any further customizations for each specific player on the roster?

Clearly I'm being cynical...but do some of you really think that 100% of what is sold on the JO Sports website is fake?? And do you think that every equipment manager from each NFL team they have a contract with is in on the scam too? Seems like a hell of a lot of work in order to turn some game issued jerseys into game worn, no???

And does anyone even know the details of this case? Can anyone speak intelligently as to JO's involvment in this case? All that I have seen are people making insane accusations about how everything JO sells is fake, and that people don't put any faith in team LOA/COA's, or photomatches.

Let's use this example: Person A knows someone at a Card Company (Person C) who wants to buy a game worn jeresey in order to cut into pieces. Person B knows how to get in touch with Person C at the Card Company. Person A uses Person B as a middle man, and Person C at the Card Company gets what they think is a game worn jersey, cut it up into pieces and put into baseball cards. The jersey coming from Person A was a retail or game issued jersey. Person C thought it was game used. Person C cuts the jersey into pieces and sells is as a game worn insert. This scenario is entirely possible...but it doesn't seem to me like everything person B now touches should be considered fake, does it?

Just a few thoughts...now let the abuse begin!!!

[short84]

Thank goodness I never delete important sent messages. This is my email message dated March 14, 2011 concerning a jersey I purchased from JO Sports through their eBay account calm6676. See below:

Dear Robert and Matt,

I purchased the jersey mentioned below as eBay item 190502403757 on February 15, 2011.


Quincy Butler 2008 Season Game Worn Jersey! Rams!
This millennium blue St. Louis Rams jersey was worn by Quincy Butler during the 2008 NFL Season. The jersey inside neck contains the "07-46-S" swatch tag indicating the year and size. The "Georgia" patch is sewn on the left chest representing the death of the Rams owner. Butler's number "36" is on front and back sewn in new century gold tackle twill with white outline. On back sewn on a milennium blue name plate is "BUTLER" in white tackle twill. Jersey shows good use.
Butler attended TCU.
The description is copied directly from eBay. Yesterday, I tried to photo-match it or at least see if I could identify which game it could have been worn in. I gave the jersey a thorough inspection only to discover there was no evidence that suggested this jersey had been worn in a game. The description above states the “jersey shows good use”. This jersey shows no use. I did an internet search and found that Quincy Butler was signed by the Rams on December 8, 2008 and was active for only one game. This quote is from the Rams web site (www.stlouisrams.com (http://www.stlouisrams.com)) --2008 SEASON: Played in one game for the Rams…inactive for two other contests…joined the Rams via waivers from Dallas (12/8)...
When I visited the NFL website (www.nfl.com (http://www.nfl.com)) I found a game log for 2008 for Quincy Butler. This showed him active for one game for the Rams and that was week 17 at Atlanta on 12/28/08. The following websites list him as inactive for games played December 14, 2008 and December 21, 2008 -http://www.thehuddle.com/x8/season/w15/gdr.php and http://www.thehuddle.com/x8/season/w16/gdr.php .
I visited Getty images and the Rams wore their white jerseys during this game. There are several photographs taken during this game that proves this. I believe this blue jersey was never game worn as the COA indicates since Quincy Butler was only active for one game and the team wore white.
I also noted one other item. The Georgia patch on this jersey does not seem to match the patches on the other jerseys you have listed and sold or the other blue jersey I purchased. The patch on this jersey is larger in size and a different color and texture (smooth). The other jerseys seem to have a smaller patch that is more of a blue color and has a courser texture. In my opinion as a collector and based upon my investigation, using references such as the Rams web site, the official website of the NFL, and a couple of other sources, I am certain this is an issued jersey that was not worn in a game.
Since there is no evidence to suggest this jersey was ever worn in a game, the COA that accompanied the jersey is not valid. The COA states this jersey was game worn during the 2008 season which is not true. When the hologram is looked up on the JO Sports website, it also shows this as a game used jersey which is not true.
The return policy on eBay states that returns are not accepted. However, this is a clear case of misrepresentation with a COA attached to a jersey that is incorrect. Your website states that “We are honored to help bring integrity and honesty to the industry by offering authentic game used and autographed memorabilia to collectors.” I am open to a solution so we can rectify this situation. It is unfortunate this jersey was not inspected carefully before a written description was attached to it or a COA issued.
Please contact me a soon as possible with a solution. I would be happy to return it for a complete refund including my costs for return postage or working out a trade. Thank you very much.
Susanne Short

[short84]

The Butler Rams jersey is the one I returned at MY cost and was later listed and sold on eBay by another collector as "game used" with the same phoney COA. The representatives at JO Sports knew this was a bad jersey but let it leave their business as "game worn" so some other poor slob was misled.

[SaintsGeaux]

Why is it "not the case" anymore? This is getting insane...not a single person on this thread has brought any photographic, or tangible evidence that something that they had purchased from JO Sports was not authentic. These charges are stemming from an incident, in which NO ONE knows the details of, and was before JO even had a website.

You use the phrase "an incident" as in a singular event. Do you know something the rest of us don't know?

You are also looking for non-photomatches. Give it time. Collectors are still in a state of shock and I'm sure some will come forward.

There are 3 posters who were sold/offered what they believed to be game issued which were sold as game used. I'm not saying it is criminal fraud as that would need to include "intent" to defraud which I won't assume but there is more than coincidence there. If they are too busy to not know the difference then shame on them as they should find a different career.

[jhunt28]

Thank goodness I never delete important sent messages. This is my email message dated March 14, 2011 concerning a jersey I purchased from JO Sports through their eBay account calm6676. See below:

Dear Robert and Matt,

I purchased the jersey mentioned below as eBay item 190502403757 on February 15, 2011.


Quincy Butler 2008 Season Game Worn Jersey! Rams!
This millennium blue St. Louis Rams jersey was worn by Quincy Butler during the 2008 NFL Season. The jersey inside neck contains the "07-46-S" swatch tag indicating the year and size. The "Georgia" patch is sewn on the left chest representing the death of the Rams owner. Butler's number "36" is on front and back sewn in new century gold tackle twill with white outline. On back sewn on a milennium blue name plate is "BUTLER" in white tackle twill. Jersey shows good use.
Butler attended TCU.
The description is copied directly from eBay. Yesterday, I tried to photo-match it or at least see if I could identify which game it could have been worn in. I gave the jersey a thorough inspection only to discover there was no evidence that suggested this jersey had been worn in a game. The description above states the “jersey shows good use”. This jersey shows no use. I did an internet search and found that Quincy Butler was signed by the Rams on December 8, 2008 and was active for only one game. This quote is from the Rams web site (www.stlouisrams.com (http://www.stlouisrams.com)) --2008 SEASON: Played in one game for the Rams…inactive for two other contests…joined the Rams via waivers from Dallas (12/8)...
When I visited the NFL website (www.nfl.com (http://www.nfl.com)) I found a game log for 2008 for Quincy Butler. This showed him active for one game for the Rams and that was week 17 at Atlanta on 12/28/08. The following websites list him as inactive for games played December 14, 2008 and December 21, 2008 -http://www.thehuddle.com/x8/season/w15/gdr.php and http://www.thehuddle.com/x8/season/w16/gdr.php .
I visited Getty images and the Rams wore their white jerseys during this game. There are several photographs taken during this game that proves this. I believe this blue jersey was never game worn as the COA indicates since Quincy Butler was only active for one game and the team wore white.
I also noted one other item. The Georgia patch on this jersey does not seem to match the patches on the other jerseys you have listed and sold or the other blue jersey I purchased. The patch on this jersey is larger in size and a different color and texture (smooth). The other jerseys seem to have a smaller patch that is more of a blue color and has a courser texture. In my opinion as a collector and based upon my investigation, using references such as the Rams web site, the official website of the NFL, and a couple of other sources, I am certain this is an issued jersey that was not worn in a game.
Since there is no evidence to suggest this jersey was ever worn in a game, the COA that accompanied the jersey is not valid. The COA states this jersey was game worn during the 2008 season which is not true. When the hologram is looked up on the JO Sports website, it also shows this as a game used jersey which is not true.
The return policy on eBay states that returns are not accepted. However, this is a clear case of misrepresentation with a COA attached to a jersey that is incorrect. Your website states that “We are honored to help bring integrity and honesty to the industry by offering authentic game used and autographed memorabilia to collectors.” I am open to a solution so we can rectify this situation. It is unfortunate this jersey was not inspected carefully before a written description was attached to it or a COA issued.
Please contact me a soon as possible with a solution. I would be happy to return it for a complete refund including my costs for return postage or working out a trade. Thank you very much.
Susanne Short


This is a great example. Did anyone respond to you? Did you get your money back? If not, did you try calling anyone? ...perhaps the description of the jersey was just copied from another Rams jersey? I know that when they get jerseys in, they can get hundreds at a time. And if a team sends them in a batch with Game Used COA's, then that's what they get listed as. I don't think they have time to photomatch every jersey that comes in...that is what the customer is supposed to do. People do make mistakes when entering descriptions, etc. I just highly doubt that someone was trying to "scam" you, when selling you the jersey of a player who has played in 1 NFL football game.

[jhunt28]

You use the phrase "an incident" as in a singular event. Do you know something the rest of us don't know?

You are also looking for non-photomatches. Give it time. Collectors are still in a state of shock and I'm sure some will come forward.

There are 3 posters who were sold/offered what they believed to be game issued which were sold as game used. I'm not saying it is criminal fraud as that would need to include "intent" to defraud which I won't assume but there is more than coincidence there. If they are too busy to not know the difference then shame on them as they should find a different career.


I know nothing that you don't know.

[SaintsGeaux]

The Butler Rams jersey is the one I returned at MY cost and was later listed and sold on eBay by another collector as "game used" with the same phoney COA. The representatives at JO Sports knew this was a bad jersey but let it leave their business as "game worn" so some other poor slob was misled.

If we are to believe your story, this is a damning piece of evidence. What do the counsel for the defense have to say? Yes, I am talking to Hunt, Bear and Palehose.

[trsent]

The Butler Rams jersey is the one I returned at MY cost and was later listed and sold on eBay by another collector as "game used" with the same phoney COA. The representatives at JO Sports knew this was a bad jersey but let it leave their business as "game worn" so some other poor slob was misled.

This is a perfect example of what got Vintage Authentics' name in lights.

With the example of JO above, someone showed them proof that an item was sold as not what they advertised it to be. This is not a crime. It happens from time to time that maybe they didn't do enough homework after receiving an item from a team. Not the end of the world.

But the end of the story that they relisted it and sold it again as game worn after being alerted the jersey couldn't have been more than an extra jersey made for the player if they made the rooster on a given week, well there is our issue.

Why these companies wouldn't do the right thing when alerted to an issue with an item makes it very unethical and a crime.

[project 4]

That's ridiculous.

Please explain how that's ridiculous? If there is clear evidence that information has been falsified then that taints the reputation of the company and puts in question every COA they put out there. They are liable for false advertising and due to the lack of business integrity the COA's become in large part invalid, thus creating a depreciation in value of purchased merchandise. I would never be able to get back what I purchased my item for b/c at this point people are more likely to stay away from products backed by JO's COAs.

I like JO. Don't get me wrong. Never had any problems with them and I'm not saying that what I purchased is fake. Am I 100% certain it's legit? I can't claim that anymore nor can I change people's perception of JO's COA's if I decide to sell down the road. It's just that a huge question mark has been placed on their stuff given the current situation. I'm hoping that all this stuff about Jared is just an oversight and am waiting for an explanation from them on their website. I really am hoping for the best for their company as I enjoy and frequent their website as well as their auctions.
But having said all that at this point there needs to be accountability and as a customer I would like some answers.

[jhunt28]

If we are to believe your story, this is a damning piece of evidence. What do the counsel for the defense have to say? Yes, I am talking to Hunt, Bear and Palehose.


If it was sold again as "game worn", after it was pointed out that a mistake was made, then yes, that is damning. I agree with you. Unfortunately I don't have a description of the relisted item that sold on EBay. But I hardly think that JO was trying to "scam" someone by putting the wrong description on a $200 jersey of a player that has played in 1 NFL game. I still think that buyers need to do their homework...if the jersey that you're thinking of buying, isn't even the same color as what was worn in that game, then maybe you should rethink your purchase. Perhaps speak to someone about it before you buy?

I'm sure you remember last year when Desean Jackson signed the wrong game and dates on the wrong jerseys? Even the guy who wore the jerseys didn't know what games they came from. He signed a white jersey from a game in which they wore green, and vice versa. People make errors.

[nycpropain]

Finally, someone from the other side of the fence. It's great to have you here, it's lonely on this end!! I have been reading this entire thread, and I'm starting to lose sight of reality. I have also read somewhere in here that someone is now skeptical of photomatches, because they think that JO is now using photomatching sites to doctor jerseys???

I mean seriously...do some of you think that JO Sports Co receives boxes of game issued jerseys, and then proceeds to have a team of runners wear them to get them sweaty and smelly? And then have a group of people put on those same jerseys to go play football in the backyard, to give them ball marks, hit marks, grass, mud, and turf stains? Then once the game is over, everyone takes their "fabricated" game issued jerseys to a group of seamstresses who manufacture team repairs, and also add any further customizations for each specific player on the roster?

Clearly I'm being cynical...but do some of you really think that 100% of what is sold on the JO Sports website is fake?? And do you think that every equipment manager from each NFL team they have a contract with is in on the scam too? Seems like a hell of a lot of work in order to turn some game issued jerseys into game worn, no???

And does anyone even know the details of this case? Can anyone speak intelligently as to JO's involvment in this case? All that I have seen are people making insane accusations about how everything JO sells is fake, and that people don't put any faith in team LOA/COA's, or photomatches.

Let's use this example: Person A knows someone at a Card Company (Person C) who wants to buy a game worn jeresey in order to cut into pieces. Person B knows how to get in touch with Person C at the Card Company. Person A uses Person B as a middle man, and Person C at the Card Company gets what they think is a game worn jersey, cut it up into pieces and put into baseball cards. The jersey coming from Person A was a retail or game issued jersey. Person C thought it was game used. Person C cuts the jersey into pieces and sells is as a game worn insert. This scenario is entirely possible...but it doesn't seem to me like everything person B now touches should be considered fake, does it?

Just a few thoughts...now let the abuse begin!!!

Thats great YOU feel like that. But thankfully most wont. Once a scam artist always a scam artist. How many federal investigations and prosecutions does one need before opening a few eyes? I dont care if 99% of their items where real if they knowingly sold the 1%.

[SaintsGeaux]

If it was sold again as "game worn", after it was pointed out that a mistake was made, then yes, that is damning. I agree with you. Unfortunately I don't have a description of the relisted item that sold on EBay. But I hardly think that JO was trying to "scam" someone by putting the wrong description on a $200 jersey of a player that has played in 1 NFL game. I still think that buyers need to do their homework...if the jersey that you're thinking of buying, isn't even the same color as what was worn in that game, then maybe you should rethink your purchase. Perhaps speak to someone about it before you buy?

I'm sure you remember last year when Desean Jackson signed the wrong game and dates on the wrong jerseys? Even the guy who wore the jerseys didn't know what games they came from. He signed a white jersey from a game in which they wore green, and vice versa. People make errors.

There isn't much hope for you. You see mistakes and errors and singular occurrences.

This isn't murder where one event is the crime. This is fraud we are talking about. The FBI generally shows a wanton pattern of criminal intent, do you understand that? A pattern showing more than one occurence. They get enough to move forward and prove their case. They know the difference between honest mistakes and criminal intent. If they went through 5 years of transactions it would be extremely costly and labor intensive.

[slam]

How about this posting involving JO Sports. I always thought this was strange.

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=44542

[solarlottry]

The entire situation sucks for all parties involved. It is a disaster for JO PR-wise all well as with regards to their partnerships. His livelihood and that of his employees and their families are in the process of being utterly destroyed.

It is a nightmare for US-the collector as we have spent thousands of $$$$ on what we believe are gamers, only to have seeds of doubt planted. With this hobby any degree of doubt or uncertainty can destroy a jersey, a dealer or a collection.

What i dont understand is why JO would knowingly create "fake gamers" when they have all the authentic gamers they can handle? With NFL teams sending them 99% of their GU jerseys and these shirts being sold for a profit, why screw it up? Obviously greed is an answer but it seems foolhardy to throw away years of hard work establishing JOsportsCO, only to lose it all over fakes and a few more $$$.

With regards to GU jerseys that were part of the team deals that were sold as GU but appeared GI, I am sure that this happens as teams have multiple shirts of each player. With players coming and going things can get mixed up or maybe the player wore it for one play or dressed but didnt play? The shirt would look new then but would be game used. Again it boils down to doing your own research and buying what YOU are confident in, no matter what the seller tells you it is.

I lost out on a beautiful 1994 Steve Young gamer because I didnt do enough homework, was too suspicious and sent it back. Well a few days later I found an exact photo-match but the shirt had been sold. I eventually found out that Panini had bought it and cut it up. Do your own research and buy what feels right and you most probably will not be disappointed.

When I bought my Bengals TO from JO it was labeled as "2010 season" but thru GUU we have photo-matched it to TO's 150th and 151st TD catches, made on MNF vs the Steelers. Would it not have benefited JO to have known this prior to selling it? The price difference between a "2010 season" vs "150th career TD MNF" would be huge. JO could have done the photo-match and figured this out but we did and got a great shirt for a great price. So it can go both ways.

I am sure everything will shake out as time passes. JO may not make it out of this intact but the GU hobby will go on, hopefully in a more honest and open forum. There will always be scoundrels out there as long as money is to be made but maybe this FBI indictment will make people think twice before trying to sell fakes.

Always buying 49ers gamers and any 1994 49er gamer!
Paul
garciajones@yahoo.com

I am sure everything will shake out in the end

[jhunt28]

There isn't much hope for you. You see mistakes and errors and singular occurrences.

This isn't murder where one event is the crime. This is fraud we are talking about. The FBI generally shows a wanton pattern of criminal intent, do you understand that? A pattern showing more than one occurence. They get enough to move forward and prove their case. They know the difference between honest mistakes and criminal intent. If they went through 5 years of transactions it would be extremely costly and labor intensive.


You are right again...there is no hope for me. Now onto the subject at hand...do you really think JO bought game issued jerseys, for lets say $150 each, and sold them as "misrepresented game worn jerseys" for $175? Who has ever heard of this Butler guy??? You would have to do this over 5,000 times in order to make any money...!! Again, NO ONE has any facts in this case. Show me facts...Show me why JO was named, WHEN, and in WHAT context. That's all. Showing me that a jersey of a player who didn't even play one full game in the NFL was mistakenly posted as "game worn", instead of "game issued" is nonsense.

[SaintsGeaux]

Hey the NFL and part of society forgave that piece of trash M.Vick and he murdered dogs!!! Are you Kidding me. And he was actually convicted! Everyone deserves a second chance except murderers,rapists, and pedophiles...

You just got me to fall out of my chair laughing. This dog murderer you talk about is on the Homepage of hour beloved JO Sports.

If you were trying to help JO, quit now as you just buried them.

[cubbs1232]

Actually that reminds me, i remember when a member had an issue with a Lesean McCoy eagles jersey that had the wrong inscription on it from last year, the jersey was from a different game than what the date written on it was. And I remember Jarrod coming on here and explaining what had happened and it was a mix up on Lesean's part because he was singing a few diff pieces at the same time, and he made it right... So ya see even players make mistakes, i know its hard to believe!!!

Easy for jo to blame it on mccoy as he can't defend himself on here.

Once a crook always a crook

[Gocong57]

How about this posting involving JO Sports. I always thought this was strange.

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=44542

That must be some trunk of evidence, er, jerseys :rolleyes:

[Ozric]

Going forward if you suspect something is not right with a piece that you see on there site, or anywhere else, call it to there attention, as people have done in the past, and the situation will be rectified asap. Ive made mention to Robert about some things i thought were issued at best, and he marked them down and accepted and appreciated the help for looking out. There is nothing that can be hidden if you research properly. The buyer and seller both have a responsibility to make it right when something is not right, you have to do your part and accept responsibility when your not on your game.


I collect Mike Nugent gear and would periodically check back with Robert to see if they obtained anything new. He advised that they did get a Jets jersey in from the 11/25/2010 game. I checked his stats and he was on the DL as of the previous game and was out for the rest of the season. I told Robert he could not have played during that game and to check to see if it was worn in an earlier game. He advised that Jarrod had it labeled as 11/25/2010 and not from an earlier game. I passed on it even though he offered it to me at nearly half of what he originally wanted for it (after I told him of the issue). Shortly after, it was listed on their site as game worn and was eventually sold as game worn through their auction site.

[cubbs1232]

Have you ever even bought a piece from JO??? I doubt it, probably just trying to stir the pot as usual i bet.


So if anyone hasn't purchased a jersey from them they can't comment, get real. They conjured crimes and get what they deserve

[cubbs1232]

Do you work them pale, you sure have a lot of excuses for them

[Ozric]

well we don't know who's hands that jersey went to after that conversation, but maybe one of there other employees took it and the message was never passed on,and a slip up in communication, no one can say for certain. Anything is possible. I'm sure that doesn't happen with superstar players, some of the lower tier guys might not be high on the radar at times...

So it's okay that someone bought an issued jersey advertised as worn because of poor communication...

[cubbs1232]

So a person new to the hobby finds jo and sees all the teams hes associated with and buys a misrepresented jersey thinking that the company is legit and because the guy doesn't know all the things to look for its ok that he got screwed?

[SkubeBats]

The Washigton Redskins are aware of the problems Jarrod is in. On the Redskins officail Message board there's a couple of posts about the trouble Jarrod & JO Sports Co are involved in.

[short84]

I did get a refund but was never reimbursed for shipping it back. At the time, I was working with Matt Almond who is not with them any more. I have more recently worked with Rob and have been very pleased with our transactions. I do not agree that it is up to the buyer to photomatch an item in order to prove it is game used. This company represents itself as professionals and experts in the field of game used memorabilia. If I wanted to purchase a jersey with a questionable history, I'll shop eBay. In my opinion, when you purchase an item for a premium price from a company that represents themselves as "experts" then it is up to them to prove and confirm that an item sold as game used is game used -- not the buyer. In this case, I did their homework for them. Someone took the time to place this jersey on a mannequin in order to photograph it. They also took the time to put the hologram sticker on the inside of the jersey. Why in the world did not not take an additional few minutes to verify it as being game used??? All I did was look at the crisp fabric with the unusual Georgia patch and I knew something was wrong. I am not an expert but I could see the problem. This company owes its' customers an apology.

[SkubeBats]

It doesn't matter if someone bought from JO Sports or not. That isn't the point here. The point is that JO Sport did wrong and they have been charged and they have plead out. So if you ask me we all can say what we want about this. Their the ones that did something wrong not us.

[34swtns]

Those of you who have legitimate experience-based issues with JO Sports have reason to voice your concerns and opinions. Those of you who are just running your mouths based on what you've heard please do us all a favor and shut the f#@k up.

You remind me of mob-mentality morons shouting at someone in the village square who's suspected of a crime but not yet tried, much less convicted.
You remind me of the self-appointed "speed sheriff"-type driving the roads doing exactly the speed limit when people are trying to get around your hypocritical a$$es. "EVERYBODY better be driving the speed limit"! Unless you're in a hurry, then it's different.

Seriously, you make yourselves look absolutely foolish.

But by all means keep throwing stones.....because that's what hypocrites do.

[DeacDoug]

Agree fully with Short84. Same standard should apply to auction houses. Never dealt with these guys, but think that the temptation becomes overwhelming when businesses want to earn six figures plus and run out of the real stuff.

[TriplexXxSports]

.

[freddiefreeman5]

The ball has been dropped by many,it's fourth and long, what are you gonna do?
Punt

[freddiefreeman5]

....Then im jumping sides and ready to brawl... But until someone on here can tell me just that, then my allegiance lies with them...
Can you be my friend? :)

[34swtns]

Matt, tell that antelope/goat/reindeer to pass the effin' popcorn.

There's a herd of sheep flapping their gums and it looks like there's no end in sight.

[AWA85]

I have purchased a few items from JO and after going back and double checking photo matches (that I found on my own) I thought I would chime in.

When it comes to misrepresentation of items it is not just a once case situation. Just within this thread we have picked up countless situations. In my previous 2 purchases they were all "photomatched" to a wrong date or wrong game. When I asked for the photomatches they found I never was given any photos at all. To me this was a minor error because I actually knew what the items were and what games they were from even though JO had no clue. If your going to put your name behind something in the business world, guarantee it is authentic and market it as game used from a certain game GET IT RIGHT. This is something JO has not been able to do on numerous items and whether it is big or small it is something that needs to be fixed.

Since we are only allowed to reply on this thread if we have purchased from JO, I wanted to share my thoughts.

[ivo610]

speaking of investigations I wonder how Brett Favre's pilot is doing with his?

[legaleagle92481]

Fellow Members, i would like to take a quick poll of all the people who commented on this present forum, who have actually purchased a game used item or items from JO Sports co in the past??? +1:) I'm trying to figure out who actually reserves the right to comment and make assumptions at will... Just a little experiment, im gonna guess that 75-85% of the negative comments are coming from people that have had zero dealings with JO in the past, and should not be allowed to blast and control the outcome of a companies future, because they have no previous knowledge of the company or its history! People that have the dealt with them, have the right to speak. It's the same unwritten rule as voting, if you didn't vote you don't get to complain about who's in office or why the country is ran the way it is, you waived your right to complain! People that vote can complain all day long, so long as you voted for the loser... I think my request is fair? And if more of you bought then i apologize in advance, i just a have a sneaky suspicion about this one!;)

roughly 30,000 in purchases in the past year. so pardon me for being pissed at them.

[TriplexXxSports]

Matt, tell that antelope/goat/reindeer to pass the effin' popcorn.

There's a herd of sheep flapping their gums and it looks like there's no end in sight.


Hey, I can't say anything more, or less, than the next guy. I will wait for the facts before I voice any sort of opinion.

Until then I will just sit back and watch in silence (like a deer eating popcorn)...

[jhunt28]

So far I have read from someone on the board who bought a jersey from a player who played less than 1 full NFL game, and was refunded their full money.

I have heard from someone who was going to buy the jersey of a kicker, but deemed the jersey to be issued, no worn (sorry, but I'm not sure how to tell the difference from a player who kicks a ball? worn?? issued?? but that's a whole different argument).

And I have read about how someone bought a game used jersey from JO, was able to photomatch it, but photomatch it to a different game than the team told JO that the jersey came from .

Call me crazy...but hardly offenses that would warrant an investigation from the FBI. I would still love to know what the charges are, when they came from, and what the scenario was. I would love to hear about the $20,000 Sanchez jersey that was found to be a fraud. Or the $18,000 Manning jersey that was bogus. Or perhaps the bad Peterson jersey that was doctored up with fake ball marks and hit marks, and sold for $10,000. I know of 2-3 auction houses that continue to sell bogus items, and still carry on business as usual. So the people who have come forward have all brought up great issues, but hardly FBI worthy offenses.

[nycpropain]

Okay, i just spoke to Rob today and low and behold they had there best day of sales in the history of there existence yesterday, go figure... I would bet that most of the critics on here are not customers of this company, just people who want to join in on the bash parade and keep fueling the fire that has been done countless times on here as in the past? Also, lets talk about jersey's that are misrepresented as game used... Okay so if any of you that have been watching the 9/11 auctions on NFL auctions, do you recall a Marion Barber jersey they were selling as game used? Well guess what, that jersey was misrepresented, because he never even played in that game, and was inactive i believe. So what gives, everyone makes mistakes and cannot be perfect all the time, period! Also, do you realize that there are only 5 employees at J.O? Yes, its true 5.... Which means they can't always be spot on when it comes to calling a jersey game used,worn,or issued. What is the true meaning of game used? With the massive amount of inventory the receive at any one time, they have to go by what the team tells them, do some research and hope for the best. Which is why they can't always keep up with every teams players and make sure this guy is active or this guy is inactive, or this guy wont get in the game today, so an and so forth. Do you know how long that takes, its supply and demand. Do you homework is what this comes down too. If you were to call up Rob and say hey man, i noticed you guys are selling a Barber jersey for x amount of dollars and this guy is inactive, whats the deal? He would respond oh wow, okay let me check it out. And i'm sure he would mark it down, they aren't knowingly listing things as gu that aren't, because like i said, the info on players and teams are public knowledge, whats to hide??? You have to be on your game too, instead of blaming others for the lack of doing ones homework! Everyone makes mistakes, as i know we are all perfect on here? So quick to judge others without all the facts. The facts are that from 08-11 and current, there product has been nothing but top notch. As for the panini thread cards, that's a whole other thing, that was going on before this website and there team affiliation took off, and i cant comment, because i don't know the specifics to that yet.

So thats nice that they had the best sales. Wait till a few weeks and they plead guilty and they have the biggest day in returns.

[nycpropain]

I have purchased several from JO but I have a feeling the only people who want the other people quiet are people still holding jerseys with COAS until they sell them.

[SkubeBats]

That day they had there best sale was the end of the auction on their website. Also this was before anyone realy new about all of this. I agree wait until everyone they delt with finds out I bet they get plenty of returns on their items they have sold.

I still don't understand some of you on here. Jarrod was charged in federal court and seems like he has plead out on this case. Am I missing anything here? I didn't think so.

Jarrod is the guy who screwed up his life and his company not anyone else buy himself!!

If you still feel like buying from a known scam artist go ahead. It doesn't matter if it was one jersey or 1,000 jerseys!!

[jhunt28]

That day they had there best sale was the end of the auction on their website. Also this was before anyone realy new about all of this. I agree wait until everyone they delt with finds out I bet they get plenty of returns on their items they have sold.

I still don't understand some of you on here. Jarrod was charged in federal court and seems like he has plead out on this case. Am I missing anything here? I didn't think so.

Jarrod is the guy who screwed up his life and his company not anyone else buy himself!!

If you still feel like buying from a known scam artist go ahead. It doesn't matter if it was one jersey or 1,000 jerseys!!



I will continue to ask...WHAT did he plead out to? WHAT was the incident(s) that he was involved in? WHO were the counterparties involved? WAS he even directly involved with anything, or was he simply a middle man selling to a card company??

I think until the facts are out, and UNTIL someone can come on this board with some facts, then we should stop crushing JO.

[MarkakisMania]

So far I have read from someone on the board who bought a jersey from a player who played less than 1 full NFL game, and was refunded their full money.

I have heard from someone who was going to buy the jersey of a kicker, but deemed the jersey to be issued, no worn (sorry, but I'm not sure how to tell the difference from a player who kicks a ball? worn?? issued?? but that's a whole different argument).

And I have read about how someone bought a game used jersey from JO, was able to photomatch it, but photomatch it to a different game than the team told JO that the jersey came from .

Call me crazy...but hardly offenses that would warrant an investigation from the FBI. I would still love to know what the charges are, when they came from, and what the scenario was. I would love to hear about the $20,000 Sanchez jersey that was found to be a fraud. Or the $18,000 Manning jersey that was bogus. Or perhaps the bad Peterson jersey that was doctored up with fake ball marks and hit marks, and sold for $10,000. I know of 2-3 auction houses that continue to sell bogus items, and still carry on business as usual. So the people who have come forward have all brought up great issues, but hardly FBI worthy offenses.


Do you understand that knowingly misrepresenting items and completing a sale is fraudulent? What don't you get about that? Whether it is 1 jersey or 100 or 1000, a crime is a crime. The difference here is you are correct, the FBI won't generally charge someone for 1 random act of fraud. Like SaintsGeaux said, they are looking for patterns.

Here is what is more likely to have occured. Bulk sales to dealers across state lines. Bulk consignments, sales on ebay when the dealer was shown the item or items were fake and totally disregarded the proof and still sold it again the same way as game used. Sales under other names that you aren't aware of such as using straw sellers.

The truth generally comes out in pieces and I agree, its not from randomly selling a game issued as a game used here and there although that shows the type of people you are dealing with in and of itself.

While we absolutely do not know the full story here the fact that this has been a five year investigation by the federal government and they after all that time felt they had enough evidence against said company to seek a federal indictment speaks volumes to me and I think many other members on here. The Feds are not just going to do a five year investigation find one lone act of selling a game issued as game used as one example and charge anybody with a crime. Something, some multiple things had to occur that they felt if they went to trail that they will nail not only JO but the other individuals, entities and companies involved. Make no mistake this is well thought out and the truth will come out.

I just think it is kind of funny that random people are on here just defending these guys like there is simply no possible way they could do any wrongdoing. Are you guys on the payroll as defense attorney's, working for JO, working as their marketing and PR guys or what?

Come on guys we again have seen this stuff play out over and over and over again, it is a broken record in this business. Guys we thought were good took a big hit in the past. It is not the first time, it definitely will not be the last.

As Conboy says, just sit back with your popcorn and watch this whole thing unfold.

Jeb

[SkubeBats]

It says Jarrod and the other guys were charged by information of mail fraud, which indicates that they worked out plea deals with prosecutors. So I guess they were guilty of something!!

[nycpropain]

It says Jarrod and the other guys were charged by information of mail fraud, which indicates that they worked out plea deals with prosecutors. So I guess they were guilty of something!!

Yup, unknowing middlemen work with the prosecution to help uncover what happened and help prosecute.

People with stuff to hide and no case cop deals.

[BULBUS]

Looks like the Giants may have gotten wind of this and canceled or suspended their partnership with JO. JO no longer has all their Giants items on their website. Also, their Giants game worn fan page on facebook is no longer up????

[legaleagle92481]

It takes alot for the FBI and U.S. Attorney to expend their manpower and resources to investigate and bring a case against someone. This is not some local investigation and case where one can argue politics or a desire for publicity or whatever led to a witch hunt by some cowboy sheriff or prosecutor looking to make a name for himself. The fact that JO was charged by an information indicates that a plea deal is in the works. If he was innocent why would he plead guilty? Why not go to trial, get acquitted and clear his name? If you did nothing wrong how will they convict you beyond a reasonable doubt? Yes, false convictions do happen but those are normally in cases such as sexual offenses or homicide or robbery type cases. In white collar crime cases like this one the false conviction rate is close to nill so if he was innocent I cannot see him pleading out. The reason to plead out quickly would be to keep the case as quiet as possible to limit the harm to his reputation and prevent further skeltons from coming out of his closet at trial. The complaints are online and there is a link to them in this thread. Read them. JO is charged with knowingly selling non-game used jerseys as game used jerseys and doctoring them to appear game used. It appears that this occurred on multiple occasions and there is a specific date in 2008 only three years ago cited in the complaint. Again read it. I realize that you defenders have purchased from them and I have also but I cannot defend someone who engaged in conduct like this and lets be real if you knew when you bought your items what you know now, would you have bought them? I sure would not have. My main concern is not if my jerseys are real, I am confident they are. My concern is someone who did things to give the hobby a blackeye so recently becoming such a force in the hobby and my worry is that he is still engaging in this conduct or will again in the future. I have learned that in life people don't change often, particularly scammers. As for returns don't hold your breath when you buy from them they include a flyer indicating that there are no returns unless for certain very limited circumstances.

[legaleagle92481]

As far as Wednesday being their best sale day, it is most likely puffing and spin. Did JO show you the sales figures for that day? I doubt it.

[jbestic]

Bottom line is that when you are an employer and you have an employee that keeps making mistakes and having excuses for those mistakes, this demonstrates a pattern of non-performance. In the real world, this ultimately leads to job termination. When there is a pattern of non-performance and mislabled/misrepresented jerseys from a company like JO Sports, shouldn't this be viewed in the same light? I'm hearing too many examples of mistakes made by them. I work very hard for my money as I know you all do too. When I spend it, I want to know I am buying what is represented by the seller.

Ultimately, I think they (JO) got lazy with authenticating their jerseys. We have also seen examples where a milestone jersey was listed as a 2010 jersey, and the buyer was able to photomatch the jersey, thereby increasing the value from the original purchase price. With social media being part of our mainstream, why would dealers not do their homework on the jerseys they are selling?

With the prices JO is asking on their gamers, they can not afford to make even one mistake. One mistake is too many, especially since they are consistently asking 1K and up for "common players".

[legaleagle92481]

Looks like the Giants may have gotten wind of this and canceled or suspended their partnership with JO. JO no longer has all their Giants items on their website. Also, their Giants game worn fan page on facebook is no longer up????

Not surprised it was in the New York Daily News and the Giants are a first class organization. I would be stunned if the Maras or the Tischs continued a relationship like that in the name of profit. I would expect the other teams to follow suit as soon as they find out. Almost all contracts have a clause that allow for termination in some circumstances. The teams have first class attorneys, I would be stunned if they let them enter a contract like this without including such a clause that lets them get out in cases like this.

[trsent]

Bottom line is that when you are an employer and you have an employee that keeps making mistakes and having excuses for those mistakes, this demonstrates a pattern of non-performance. In the real world, this ultimately leads to job termination. When there is a pattern of non-performance and mislabled/misrepresented jerseys from a company like JO Sports, shouldn't this be viewed in the same light? I'm hearing too many examples of mistakes made by them. I work very hard for my money as I know you all do too. When I spend it, I want to know I am buying what is represented by the seller.

Ultimately, I think they (JO) got lazy with authenticating their jerseys. We have also seen examples where a milestone jersey was listed as a 2010 jersey, and the buyer was able to photomatch the jersey, thereby increasing the value from the original purchase price. With social media being part of our mainstream, why would dealers not do their homework on the jerseys they are selling?

With the prices JO is asking on their gamers, they can not afford to make even one mistake. One mistake is too many, especially since they are consistently asking 1K and up for "common players".

I am confused. There is not criminal intent over one mistake. That is not the issue here. Any human mistakes are not the reason for indictments.

The concerns are more about intentional, planned, fraud. No one was charged because they made any mistakes, except mistakes in good judgment as a member of society.

[AWA85]

And I have read about how someone bought a game used jersey from JO, was able to photomatch it, but photomatch it to a different game than the team told JO that the jersey came from .

Call me crazy...

May be little to you, but makes a big difference when the the game they are claiming it to be worn in was the school record for most rushing yards in a game compared to a game where the player did nothing when it was truly worn. 0/3 on photomatches on items from them, if they do not have the staff or time to photomatch all the items they should not state that all are matched up in each description.

[jhunt28]

Looks like the Giants may have gotten wind of this and canceled or suspended their partnership with JO. JO no longer has all their Giants items on their website. Also, their Giants game worn fan page on facebook is no longer up????


Giants items are back up on their site...so looks like just another person rushing to judgement...could it have been a simple technology error? Perhaps....but let's have everyone pile on and reach the conclusion that the Giants have pulled their items in disgust over the horror and outrage that JO has caused their team, because they are so "classy".

Look...I know it seems as if I am a defense lawyer for JO...when I'm merely playing devils advocate, looking for details on exactly they did wrong, and perhaps giving them a little room to breathe.


http://www.josportsco.com/list_products.asp?NewSearch=True&SubID=7000002&TeamID=6000035&CatID=0

[SkubeBats]

I just got off the phone with the St Louis Rams. They told me that their lawyers are hard at work to end their relationship with JO Sports. They also told me there will be many more teams to do the same. They will make a public anouncemant about this soon.

[BULBUS]

Giants items are back up on their site...so looks like just another person rushing to judgement...could it have been a simple technology error? Perhaps....but let's have everyone pile on and reach the conclusion that the Giants have pulled their items in disgust over the horror and outrage that JO has caused their team, because they are so "classy".

Look...I know it seems as if I am a defense lawyer for JO...when I'm merely playing devils advocate, looking for details on exactly they did wrong, and perhaps giving them a little room to breathe.

I was just stating a fact. The Giants stuff was gone from their site for more than a day. Their Giants facebook fan page is still gone. Plus, they still dont have all the Giants jerseys that they did before.

While it seems that JO is running a legit business with their current NFL contracts, its obvious from the charges that everything before the NFL was not on the up and up, and Jarrod got busted.

[nycpropain]

Giants items are back up on their site...so looks like just another person rushing to judgement...could it have been a simple technology error? Perhaps....but let's have everyone pile on and reach the conclusion that the Giants have pulled their items in disgust over the horror and outrage that JO has caused their team, because they are so "classy".

Look...I know it seems as if I am a defense lawyer for JO...when I'm merely playing devils advocate, looking for details on exactly they did wrong, and perhaps giving them a little room to breathe.


http://www.josportsco.com/list_products.asp?NewSearch=True&SubID=7000002&TeamID=6000035&CatID=0

You are not playing devils advocate you are making a joke out of everything as if the FBI where mall security. But when the teams do pull this stuff (they will just talked to a very reliable friend off record who works around a team) will you then say you where wrong? Or are you going to run from this place like it was on fire?

Stop it we get it already, but make no mistake only a few as of now are buying it.

[ChuckFoPrez]

This is why I, for the most part, stay in the "Retail Authentic" arena plus some Made in Berlin, WI items along w/ a couple autographs. That GU stuff is just too risky and not really worth it IMO.

[SaintsGeaux]

Giants items are back up on their site...so looks like just another person rushing to judgement...could it have been a simple technology error? Perhaps....but let's have everyone pile on and reach the conclusion that the Giants have pulled their items in disgust over the horror and outrage that JO has caused their team, because they are so "classy".

Look...I know it seems as if I am a defense lawyer for JO...when I'm merely playing devils advocate, looking for details on exactly they did wrong, and perhaps giving them a little room to breathe.


http://www.josportsco.com/list_products.asp?NewSearch=True&SubID=7000002&TeamID=6000035&CatID=0

Are you a shill for JO or a super fan of theirs. In your June post about JO you wrote in large bold font ROBERT IS A GOD!

I think the owners of this Blog should check your background or you should recuse yourself from further postings based on impartially since you are treating this like your own trial as defense counsel.

Still Palehose talking about what scum Vick is and be shown he's tied with JO was classic.

[SaintsGeaux]

Are you a shill for JO or a super fan of theirs. In your June post about JO you wrote in large bold font ROBERT IS A GOD!

I think the owners of this Blog should check your background or you should recuse yourself from further postings based on impartially since you are treating this like your own trial as defense counsel.

Still Palehose talking about what scum Vick is and be shown he's tied with JO was classic.

Correction, it reads robert is God!!!!!! That post was made 6/20/11.

[Jeffredsfan]

I just got off the phone with the St Louis Rams. They told me that their lawyers are hard at work to end their relationship with JO Sports. They also told me there will be many more teams to do the same. They will make a public anouncemant about this soon.


Good! maybe I can get a Rams Alexander jersey without taking out a second mortgage! ;)

[jhunt28]

Are you a shill for JO or a super fan of theirs. In your June post about JO you wrote in large bold font ROBERT IS A GOD!

I think the owners of this Blog should check your background or you should recuse yourself from further postings based on impartially since you are treating this like your own trial as defense counsel.

Still Palehose talking about what scum Vick is and be shown he's tied with JO was classic.


A sense of humor would be good in this occasion...Let's just leave this as you have your point of view, and I have mine. One of us will be wrong in due time. You are free to look into my background...I welcome it!!!

[SaintsGeaux]

A sense of humor would be good in this occasion...Let's just leave this as you have your point of view, and I have mine. One of us will be wrong in due time. You are free to look into my background...I welcome it!!!

That's where you are so misguided. This isnt a game of which one of us are right, this is about honor and looking yourself in the mirror and integrity.

Forget about the FBI report as the current posts tell me all I need to know about how they operate today. I make less than $82,000 and I dont have $200 to gamble on whether it is game used or game issued. I may have a day that I will have to sell a jersey and need to be 100% comfortable in selling that jersey as described for my own peace of mind.

[trsent]

Wow guys, both of you - This is a discussion and each of you are allowed to see the situation differently. There is no need for petty insults and background checks.

If you don't like regarding someone's posts you can block them from being read on this forum, but petty insults over one man giving how they see the situation versus how someone else sees it is very childish and immature.

[frikativ54]

I thought I would add my two cents here. In the past, I had dealings with an entity that I later found out was perpetrating fraud and had sold many fake and misrepresented items. Did that mean that everything I owned from that source was fake? Absolutely not. However, their credibility was tarnished, and I didn't know what was genuine from what had contrived use. The only way around this is photomatching, and I didn't have photomatches. The end result was taking my business elsewhere.

If people have genuine issues with JO Sports - which I'm sure they do - then the best move would be to stop doing business with them. From what I understand, JO has knowingly perpetrated fraud on at least some occasions. Put your money where your mouth is; find another source for your game used items. There are plenty out there; no one source has a total monopoly on the market. While I understand people might buy with clear and convincing photomatches, in other cases, it sends a powerful message to take one's business elsewhere.

FYI, dealers who engage in fraud don't just do it when they are caught. It's never a one-time thing and about faking one or two jerseys on a couple of occasions. For every time that JO was caught, there are tens of other times where they were able to get away with such crooked business practices. This is only the tip of the iceberg.

[MarkakisMania]

Im not tied to anything or anyone except my wife by law!!! Dont twist my words, as you missed the point... Either way, the point is that how many of you that are on here writing negative comments about this company have actually had a bad experience with this company, where the issue wasnt resolved by a member of there staff??? The majority of you that are complaining are just trying to bring this company down to its knees for the pure sake of enjoyment. Most of you are not directly affected by this situation, and should not be allowed to decide the outcome of this companies future by chiming in for no reason, but to add fuel to the fire. If any member or members on here have had real issues with this company that were not resolved in a positive manor, than by all means speak up, if not than take 34sweetness's advice!!! Fact, i know of many high end auction houses that have misrepresented numerous items as being game used and gave the items high marks of significant use!!! Well let me tell you, that was absolutely not the case at most times, in fact it was teh exact opposite of what was described, this happens everywhere and no one company is exempt from these practices! Instead of the pitch fork parade on J.O, why not parade around to all of these so called game used experts and there houses, and go after the whole sellers community, instead of singling out one person or entity??? Everone is guilty and different ways. On another note, JO is not perfect and have made mistakes, and there is a lot of room for improvement on there part and issues need to be fixed, whether it be adding more staff to correct these problems or doing more homework. Im not trying to be a rah rah guy, but like ive said, im speaking of my personal experiences with this company and i have had no bad ones yet...

You are right, there are a number of auction houses that have suffered from this very issue. One of them had their owner arrested at the National and hopefully the ones who are guilty of these errors and outright fraudulent activities will continue to fall one by one. There are also in my experience a number of auction houses REA, Huggins and Scott, Hunt to name a few that have readily answered questions on here and pulled questionable material in the past when presented to them.

In this case if all accounts are true, this company was selling items manufactured to represent game use and when items were returned back to them apparently with proof that what they were selling was not as advertised; instead of either changing the description or eating the items they put them back on the market as exactly what they originally had them listed as. They ignored the proof they were presented with. That is called fraud, and it is exactly the very transgression that had Steve Jensen arrested at the National several months ago.

I think LegalEagle summed this up pretty well. Regardless of what evidence has been or will be presented, it is painfully obvious JO is guilty for something or he would not be pleading this out or be in the process of pleading this out right now.

Hopefully those who are still siding with JO will have the FBI or federal prosecutor contact them and maybe they can go view all the evidence at the Federal building and then decide for themselves since they are so concerned about what has and has not been made available in terms of the physical evidence for all to see to this point.

Jeb

[freddiefreeman5]

I like paragraphs. :)

[Jeffredsfan]

See and thats the other problem, ive heard a couple members make comments about how they hope JO has a fire sale and another guy said he hopes he can get a rams jersey on the chaep now, without taking out a second mortgage!!!! That tells me most haters are non-customers, who are bashing for the possibility of getting GU on the cheap, cuz they cant afford Jo prices, if this is the case then i feel sad for you! I knew there was more than meets the eye to the hate thats going on with this forum. People are jealous that JO cornered the market and dont agree with there prices, thats fine, i dont blame you. But if you dont like it, you can always haggle with them on the price, i know ive never paid triple fold, or paid full price on a jersey i bought. So if you want to wait for the secondary market, be my guest. Best of luck. It just proves what the real motive is on this thread, and what some people are all about. Haters will hate and ballers will ball. Oh Well.

Lighten up Palehose, I was only trying to bring a little humor into this situation. I have purchased jerseys from JO Sports in the past. Am I concerned? Yes, somewhat. Am I bashing JO because of their prices? No, not really. People will pay what they feel is an appropriate price. I'm just saying if a person pays a ton of money for a jersey, it damn well better be real. In the end, what intrinsic value do these jerseys hold? The answer is - NONE. Other than wearing them to keep warm, they have no value. Try taking one to a grocery store and swapping it for food. :p

Enjoy the hobby!

[Jeffredsfan]

Does this allow me to speak my mind on this subject? :p

Geez people, this isn't a national tragedy. It could be a scam or it could be a misunderstanding. Whatever the case, whether someone has purchased from JO Sports or not, each of us has the right to express our thoughts - without qualifications.

[kprst6]

If people have genuine issues with JO Sports - which I'm sure they do - then the best move would be to stop doing business with them.


Your statement wasn't very thoughtful at all. Most people that have issues with JO Sports, refuse to do business with them because of outrageous prices, highly questionable items, misrepresented items, shill bidding in their auctions etc. The people that are complaining are those that already refuse to do business with them. It's the other uneducated "I'll take your word that it's real, just because you say it is" that keeps their company in business. Everyone will agree that they do indeed have legitimate items and everyone will agree that there are a large number of fake and/or misrepresented items.

I've always said that having just 1 fake item in your collection or for sale by a dealer makes your entire collection/merchandise questionable. Look at companies like Steel Town Memorabilia. They have 10,000+ sales of fake jerseys, pictures, etc and have a 99.99% perfect positive feedback. People want something for nothing and are willing to justify and believe they got the deal of the century on items even if that item is clearly fake.

[Jeffredsfan]

No Value??? IDK what you bought, but as i stated before they come with team LOA's from the equipment managers and photo matches that are good enough for me and most others, sorry if thats not the case with you! To respond to the other point, Im speaking of the most popular auction houses that are still in business all have or had questionable items that they try to sell, even after it is brought to there attention... Im not saying im just saying! They have been members who sold things that werent described accurately and knowingly or unknowingly tried to sell them before doing all the necessary homework, and luckily those items werent sold to some poor sap who doesnt know any better. So like i say, everyone makes mistakes or bad judgement calls, even the best of the best do it, and people you trust and believe in! To me seeing an LOA that describes game use as a 10/10, and the piece looks like it was jsut removed from its wrapper, is just as bad if not worse that calling something thats issued used. And theres a lot of that going on...:eek:

I think you missed the KEY word - intrinsic. The jersey is made of cloth and the only value cloth has is to keep you warm. I know game used jerseys have value, but only to someone who collects them. They have no value until you sell them. Right? It's the same with a set of baseball cards, a game used ball, bat, hat, etc. No value until it's sold.

[SkubeBats]

Palehose for life,
Don't you get it Jarrod didn't make mistakes. He forged game used equipment and LOA's. THATS NOT A MISTAKE THATS A CRIME!!!!!!!

[mickeymbz]

i dont think any of the shirts with actual game dates are bogus.. most can be photomatched barring their are photos of that player...

[SaintsGeaux]

My main focus had been football and I have bought directly from Matt when he worked there and Rob until recently. I got the Raiders jacket email today so I must be a good customer. My best success has been buying on ebay with JO documentation and those are the items that concern me most.

This isn't the JO Club, this is GUU. This is as much educational as it is comisurating amongst us collectors. We have to deal with it since it exists. If some of you want to live in the land of denial, that's your choice.

I also agree with Jeb that other scum exists. My theory is I believe these 6 share a common denominator that has tied them together.

Will we ever get THE press release or some inside insights from Mr. Cavalier?

[SaintsGeaux]

Palehose for life,
Don't you get it Jarrod didn't make mistakes. He forged game used equipment and LOA's. THATS NOT A MISTAKE THATS A CRIME!!!!!!!

Skube, allegedly is the key word. I wouldn't go that far until we know what the plea of guilt was for.

[SaintsGeaux]

i dont think any of the shirts with actual game dates are bogus.. most can be photomatched barring their are photos of that player...

That's what I hope is the case. I bought some special team players and a receivers and wasn't able to get any photos. Unless you are buying star players, I think you are buying on reputation.

Its that reputation which is damaged in my mind.

[legaleagle92481]

It appears JO is running a sale on several teams some steep discounts. Coincidence?

[Preston]

It appears JO is running a sale on several teams some steep discounts. Coincidence?

Looks like Chargers and Chiefs...anyone else yet?

This indictment is a good move for the hobby in the long run, IMO

[legaleagle92481]

Since no one running this site to this point has steping-up to address some of the slanderous things that are being said to this point about JO it might be time for some of our less sophisticated friends to understand what slander means and its consequences:

Slander is the spoken or transitary form of defamation of character, a legal term that refers to a falsehood presented as true which could harm the reputation of a person or entity.

If defamation of character is placed in a fixed form as in the case of a sign, published paper, film, or recording, it is considered libel.

Slander is a tort or civil law meaning a civil lawsuit can be brought against someone who is accused of slander.

Winning a defamation of character lawsuit can pay off in two types of compensation: General damages and Special damages. General Damages covers emotional trauma while Special damages covers economic loss.

Once again all of the FACTS haven't come to light yet, but for certain members of this site that NEVER gets in the way of their Lynch Mob because by God we don't need a trial we just hang people here.

This isn't just about mine or your stupid jersey YOU are playing with peoples lives and the lives of their families before knowing the facts.

I hope that the people who want to play judge, jury, & executioner if they are wromg can afford potential legal problems on their McDonalds salaries.

Truth is an absolute defense in a defamation case.

[SkubeBats]

Man are you something! Now you come on here and start bashing the members on here about there work and salaries.

What are you going to do when the proof is out in the open that Jarrod and the others committed crimes? What do you think the feds are making this sh-t up?

[nycpropain]

Since no one running this site to this point has steping-up to address some of the slanderous things that are being said to this point about JO it might be time for some of our less sophisticated friends to understand what slander means and its consequences:

Slander is the spoken or transitary form of defamation of character, a legal term that refers to a falsehood presented as true which could harm the reputation of a person or entity.

If defamation of character is placed in a fixed form as in the case of a sign, published paper, film, or recording, it is considered libel.

Slander is a tort or civil law meaning a civil lawsuit can be brought against someone who is accused of slander.

Winning a defamation of character lawsuit can pay off in two types of compensation: General damages and Special damages. General Damages covers emotional trauma while Special damages covers economic loss.

Once again all of the FACTS haven't come to light yet, but for certain members of this site that NEVER gets in the way of their Lynch Mob because by God we don't need a trial we just hang people here.

This isn't just about mine or your stupid jersey YOU are playing with peoples lives and the lives of their families before knowing the facts.

I hope that the people who want to play judge, jury, & executioner if they are wromg can afford potential legal problems on their McDonalds salaries.

I really hope they are ready to sue the several hundred news outlets also which are reporting this for the saying this also. So in short you just typed all that for nothing since all people are saying are whats in the FBI document and their personal experiences.

Here's an idea, if your company cant withstand being prosecuted by the FBI dont be investigated by the FBI. And no one is lynch mobbing, you on the other hand are making it very obvious this is bothering you for some reason, like maybe you have a horse in this race.

As for people working at McDonalds that's nice your bring that up considering some of these names on that FBI list may be applying there soon enough. Maybe they can hand out uniforms, but hopefully not used.

[otismalibu]

and everyone deserves a second chance, especially when they have not directly affected you personally

Free OJ & Squeaky Fromme!!!

[SkubeBats]

Were not the ones being charged in federal court are we???

[SkubeBats]

The feds investigation was 2004 thru sometime in 2008. JO SPorts website was up and running in 2008 and they were already working with pro teams.

[CollectGU]

LMFAO!!!

everyday I'm........

[yankees506]

everyday I'm........


shuffling? :p

[freddiefreeman5]

A lot of honest people work at McDonald's.

[CollectGU]

shuffling? :p

"scuff"ling..."scuff"ling...

[yankees506]

"scuff"ling..."scuff"ling...


thats funny as hell :D ;) hope we are'nt too "modern", this thread is way too serious

[nycpropain]

I haven't heard any horror stories or legitimate gripes from any Members... Point is, i'm sure they wouldn't leave a customer hanging if the called an inconsistency to there attention!

OK but you have heard the stories of items being proven NOT game used and them reappearing months later after being returned with game used COA's right? So as long as they pass the item along you are cool with that as long as its not in YOUR collection. Got it, thanks.

[Cubanfan]

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79 posts - 32 authors - Last post: May 15, 2010
http://www.josportsco.com/photos/81_6.jpg (6) The sleeve on this fraudulent jersey includes

Thought you all would enjoy perusing this site.


Carlos
Always looking for early Miami Dolphins
fernsix@aol.com

[BU54CB]

It appears JO is running a sale on several teams some steep discounts. Coincidence?

They are having a 25% off sale for the Chiefs and Chargers, I'd hardly say that's a steep discount. Witch hunting a little?

[BurlesonBlue]

They are having a 25% off sale for the Chiefs and Chargers, I'd hardly say that's a steep discount. Witch hunting a little?

It also bears repeating that those are the two teams facing off in the Monday night game.

[34swtns]

Maybe I should explain my personal position more clearly for the less open-minded among us.
As far as continuing to do business with JO, I will continue for three reasons;

1) Past personal history = no problems thus far and any item I purchase is photomatched before I ever lay out a nickel for it.

2) They're the only source for the Bears jerseys I collect.

3) I deal with an individual who is not Jarrod Oldridge. This person has my utmost trust and has gone out of his way to help me maximize my purchasing ability with every deal we've struck. I've had wives who I've trusted less than this guy so I'll be cutting deals even as the ship goes down, should it ever happen.

Jarrod is the namesake and the figurehead of the company but there are several individuals within the company who have pristine reputations among the circle of collectors that I run with and that's good enough for me. I'm not an "all or nothing" kind of guy and I'm intelligent enough to know that one scar doesn't turn a supermodel into a turd.

The more people that run the other way from them make the selection that much better for me, so by all means, try to find your gamers elsewhere if your moral high-horse precludes you from doing business with them.

They'll continue to get my money until they turn out the lights.

[masp3392]

hypothetically, let's say JO is charged, convicted, whatever the case may be, what happens to their inventory?

does it go back to the designated team? the law seizes the property or because the teams were contracted at the time its Jo's to keep?

anyone know whats the likely outcome of the stock should the outcome go this way?

[masp3392]

Maybe I should explain my personal position more clearly for the less open-minded among us.
As far as continuing to do business with JO, I will continue for three reasons;

1) Past personal history = no problems thus far and any item I purchase is photomatched before I ever lay out a nickel for it.

2) They're the only source for the Bears jerseys I collect.

3) I deal with an individual who is not Jarrod Oldridge. This person has my utmost trust and has gone out of his way to help me maximize my purchasing ability with every deal we've struck. I've had wives who I've trusted less than this guy so I'll be cutting deals even as the ship goes down, should it ever happen.

Jarrod is the namesake and the figurehead of the company but there are several individuals within the company who have pristine reputations among the circle of collectors that I run with and that's good enough for me. I'm not an "all or nothing" kind of guy and I'm intelligent enough to know that one scar doesn't turn a supermodel into a turd.

The more people that run the other way from them make the selection that much better for me, so by all means, try to find your gamers elsewhere if your moral high-horse precludes you from doing business with them.

They'll continue to get my money until they turn out the lights.

well said, just like you, i wouldn't invest $$$, especially at that those prices or any price for that matter into something i didn't do my homework on. As far as the employees at JO goes, ive dealt with rob snyder before he left (had nothing to do with this situation) and was every bit of trustworthy, standup guy with me throughout the way. I currently deal with someone who has taken over my account and from what ive exchanged with him has been even more helpful, and upfront about anything in question or what im currently looking for.

Regardless of how this plays out, im with JO

[EndzoneSports]

Greetings all!

We've been absent from this board for awhile tending to other interests (yes, Dorothy, there is a life outside the world of game-used jerseys :)). A close friend brought this tread to my attention today and, needless to say this is VERY disturbing on multiple levels.

As a paying customer, having made at least one significant purchase from JO Sports Co. (JOSC), I can honestly say that, aside from feeling that I probably paid too much, I was very satisfied with the item in that it could be easily photo-matched to the one and only game in which it was worn.

That said, it is bothersome (at the very least), that we played a part in assisting JOSC in securing their partnership agreement with the Denver Broncos. I would not attempt to paint our involvement as material to the signing of their final agreement, but we did, using our contacts within the organization, grease the skids in getting their proposal moved to the top of the desk of the person in position to make the deal. That said, if the allegations hold true (presuming innocence 'til proven otherwise), this could stand to cast a negative light on our relationship with the Broncos--one that we've spent years in cultivating.

As being considered knowledgeable and trusted within the hobby community, I was interviewed a number of times by the FBI's investigator into this matter and I can say this was handled in a very professional manner. While I got the feeling that they definitely had their sights set in a couple of specific areas, this was not a per-destined "witch hunt" as the investigation (from my limited perspective) was handled with an open mind. While not at liberty to discus details, I find it interesting that, of the three persons/companies for which they seemed most interested, only one of the three was named in the present action. I wonder if this means that there's more to come???

[Mulligans]

I thought that I would wait until I could be the 275th post on this topic??

Guys....really....it's just business and most of you seem to be bashing the "always sane, educated and rational" members of the forum?

I have owned my business for many years and have been victim to many law suits and inquiries (including the federal government)........it's just the norm for a business owner and I have yet to be convicted of any criminal offense? Most of these suits settle because they are usually just accusations from an unhappy person or government agencies and the facts are very weak.

I have been dealing with these guys for years and have spent a small fortune on their jerseys without one complaint...... They are not perfect but they are pretty good......that's just my opinion.....if you don't like them or fear their product.....just don't buy it......none of this stuff is going to sway me in any
way.

[Preston]

Preston, no offense, but did you notice that those teams are playing a game monday night? I'm just saying...


Very aware, Palehose...my question was whether or not it was just those two teams, or were there other teams I failed to notice were "discounting" or having their items "on sale" other than those two. I wanted to make sure I didn't miss something.

And as far as it being good for the hobby, it would be a good thing for teams to market their OWN game jerseys...I'm saying this from personal experience but irregardless, it takes out the "middleman" in a sense.

But, thanks again for reminding me of ESPN's MNF (minus Hank Jr) for my viewing pleasure

[Preston]

Since no one running this site to this point has steping-up to address some of the slanderous things that are being said to this point about JO it might be time for some of our less sophisticated friends to understand what slander means and its consequences:

Slander is the spoken or transitary form of defamation of character, a legal term that refers to a falsehood presented as true which could harm the reputation of a person or entity.

If defamation of character is placed in a fixed form as in the case of a sign, published paper, film, or recording, it is considered libel.

Slander is a tort or civil law meaning a civil lawsuit can be brought against someone who is accused of slander.

Winning a defamation of character lawsuit can pay off in two types of compensation: General damages and Special damages. General Damages covers emotional trauma while Special damages covers economic loss.

Once again all of the FACTS haven't come to light yet, but for certain members of this site that NEVER gets in the way of their Lynch Mob because by God we don't need a trial we just hang people here.

This isn't just about mine or your stupid jersey YOU are playing with peoples lives and the lives of their families before knowing the facts.

I hope that the people who want to play judge, jury, & executioner if they are wromg can afford potential legal problems on their McDonalds salaries.

Smartest thing you've said in 2,735 posts on this topic...though "until the truth comes out, it's defamation of character" is incorrect...at that point it's just an opinion, and in the court of law, you cannot have a false opinion.

[Preston]

let me reiterate - you putting that you understand the difference between libel and slander shows you're at least somewhat intelligent - which is what I was glad to see that you put it out there, because not everyone on this board has a law background. However, the other comments (i.e. "less sophisticated" and "McDonald's salary) were slams at people you disagree with - just because you disagree on a topic and take the side of the person being "witch hunted", it doesn't mean they make burger flippin salary...ha ha.

Okay, I'm done! Carry on...I hope to God this thing's under 40 pages by the time I log in again.

[cubbs1232]

[quote=Mulligans;272196]I thought that I would wait until I could be the 275th post on this topic??


I have owned my business for many years and have been victim to many law suits and inquiries (including the federal government)........it's just the norm for a business owner and I have yet to be convicted of any criminal offense?
quote]

MULLIGANS Please i have owned my own business for 15+ years and never once has the federal or local government inquired about my business nor has there ever been a law suit against me. I was a million dollar business with no problems. get over yourself and quit making excuses for scum.

This isnt just a black eye for jo its bad for the entire hobby. jo was probably the most "reputable" company in the hobby and now they are tarnished because they sold fake ass items. face the facts, they basically pleaded guilty to whatever charges they faced.