Card companies, the FBI & Fraud

[Eric]

According to the charges, the 6 people charged by the FBI sold to the card companies. Here's the exact wording...

"It was also a part of the scheme to defraud that the defendant and others involved in the scheme re-sold, consigned, and auctioned the same jerseys for hundreds of thousands of dollars to sports trading card companies and other buyers by falsely and fraudulently misrepresenting to the buyers that the jerseys were game used, when in fact, as the defendant well knew, the jerseys were not game used."

Have the card companies commented on this????
Doesn't this call into question the value of the high-priced cards in the high-priced packs that they sell?
I'm going to reach out to the companies and see what they say. I haven't seen this angle reported anywhere...
Eric

[LEGEND33]

Re: Card companies, the FBI & Fraud

Not bad news in my opinion to know that many of this pieces of jerseys does not come from game used jerseys (sorry cards collectors)

[jake33]

Re: Card companies, the FBI & Fraud

totally agree. The card companies have warehouses with game used equipment, is that ever checked? And what is the accountability?

I recall a while back someone opened a pack and have a byron leftwhich jersey card. The jersey was a red swatch ( while he was still with the Jags) and someone questioned the card company and all the card company did was give an appology (admitting fault). How is that acceptable? There is a written company-line COA on the back of the card assuring authenticity.

The thing with game used is everything really is a one-of a kind, and if you take that angle, everything in the hobby is not replaceable if any owner wanted to take a heavy stance on it.

[jppopma]

Re: Card companies, the FBI & Fraud

It would be tricky for the card companies being that they were unknowing victims in the fraud.

Would not want to be a dealer of any of these cards right now, as the mere speculation that the jerseys may not be real could hurt the cards. Many of these jersey cards are numbers 1/100 or lower, and non jersey numbered cards keep a pretty high value...so it may not be that much of an issue with them.

I bet the card companies will hide behind the 'claim nor declare any value' of their cards. When I bought my son a pack of cards a while back, I found it funny that they have a disclaimer to this effect printed on the packs.

Look forward to seeing if they answer you Eric.

[Ollie]

Re: Card companies, the FBI & Fraud

Didn't the card companies change the wording on the back of the Swatch cards because of incidents like this?

I think it used to say something along the lines of "You have "insert game used pieces here" that has been worn by "insert player here" in an official game." And now it says something like "This swatch was used in a official game/event" without mentioning whether it was used by that actual player?

TBH It breaks my heart seeing some of these patch cards surfacing, especially those of pre 1990 players. And bat cards, I never got the appeal of those, it's literally a chip of wood. At least a swatch of jersey still looks like a jersey.

[NEFAN]

Re: Card companies, the FBI & Fraud

Once got a card with a piece of a Superbowl XX ball in it. The piece had gold foil from the Wilson logo on it. That was not added to balls until sometime after that season.

When I contacted the company, they asked me to send it back and replaced it will several inserts of my favorite players. I quit cards not too long after that.

[MarinersFan34]

Re: Card companies, the FBI & Fraud

They've changed the wording over the years and now states most often; This item was certified to us as being game used.. This is not from any specific season, game or event, etc..

I believe the only one to come forward thus far is Brian Gray of Leaf, he posted on another forum, which had a SQL issue and they lost the last weeks of posts so it's gone now. He did state he stoof behind is products of course and that the game used items he uses are real. He had posted the final card pictures of the Ichiro 2011 jersey he hacked up that he got from Ichiro directly.

I seriously doubt we'll see any press on it from any of the major manufacturers or Beckett. Why shine more light on the bad situation they put themselves in? The card companies just shrug it off and say, well it was certified to US as game used and since we make cards we don't know any better. Beckett won't bite the hand that feeds even though they should make a story on it, imo. If They have done so, then I missed it.

[jake33]

Re: Card companies, the FBI & Fraud

not sure on the legal issue of this. But "unknowingly victims of fraud" still leaves a great deal of concern. if I buy a bike from a guy and it was reported stolen, I am legally at fault by owning stolen goods.

Now, with game used, it is not stolen, but card companies put that stamp on the back and their name on it. They signed up to do business like that. If they are not possitive on each "swatch" they put out there, they should not sell them at all.

And there is NO way they are positive at all. Heck, what about anybody working in manufacturing for those companies. You really are putting your authenticity in the hands of a guy in a factory making $12.50 an hour, yet the president of the card companies put their name printed on the back of the card (i.e. Upper Deck). I would assume that a CEO of a card company is not overseeing every memorabilia card that is printed with his name on it.

---

While as anyone selling, I try to refer to the MLb authentication number or PSA/DNA on NFl items I sold and i still sell them as "game used" even if I fully believe it, it does leave doubt and I too could be wrong like anyone else. The difference is that the card companies have a lot more to lose than I do.

[Eric]

Re: Card companies, the FBI & Fraud

Heres a thread where we explored bad jersey swatches...

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=8224&highlight=Youngblood

[sox83cubs84]

Re: Card companies, the FBI & Fraud

They've changed the wording over the years and now states most often; This item was certified to us as being game used.. This is not from any specific season, game or event, etc..

I believe the only one to come forward thus far is Brian Gray of Leaf, he posted on another forum, which had a SQL issue and they lost the last weeks of posts so it's gone now. He did state he stoof behind is products of course and that the game used items he uses are real. He had posted the final card pictures of the Ichiro 2011 jersey he hacked up that he got from Ichiro directly.

I seriously doubt we'll see any press on it from any of the major manufacturers or Beckett. Why shine more light on the bad situation they put themselves in? The card companies just shrug it off and say, well it was certified to US as game used and since we make cards we don't know any better. Beckett won't bite the hand that feeds even though they should make a story on it, imo. If They have done so, then I missed it.

I'm curious if SCD will abandon their standard "see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil" approach to hobby reporting and look into this?

On second thought, this is SCD we're talking about...I pretty sure I knew the answer before I asked the question.

Dave Miedema

[masp3392]

Re: Card companies, the FBI & Fraud

As a miami hurricanes game used/autographed card collector ive always had a skepticism about the game worn swatches / patches. Even with nfl jersey swatches i rarely ever saw any of the swatches with any game used, stains, hit marks etc.

beginning to question my own collection

[Eric]

Re: Card companies, the FBI & Fraud

Made inquiries to Panini, Topps and Upper Deck today. Let's see what they say.
Eric

[MarkakisMania]

Re: Card companies, the FBI & Fraud

This is all quite shocking. As we have learned to this point there is simply no possible way that JO Sports or Jerrod had any knowledge of this act or would have done this as evidenced by the myriad number of supporters on this very site. The FBI must be wrong.

Jeb

[34swtns]

Re: Card companies, the FBI & Fraud

And I'll buy Bears jerseys from the FBI when they start stocking them.

Till then........

[gingi79]

Re: Card companies, the FBI & Fraud

I wanted to throw an idea to the crowd as we have some folks with knowledge of the law and lawsuits.


Let's say a collector spends thousands of dollars hoping to acquire a game used jersey card of "Player A". Boxes and packs of cards show said player on them with a message "Find a rare Game Used swatch of Player "A"!" Advertisements in Beckett claim that this players G/U card is available from packs and collectors have a logical expectation that within some very lucky packs is the players g/u card. When the dust settles, lets say "Player A's" jersey is shown to have been modified to look game worn but 100% was not. The card company advertised a product was possible but it was not. Can the card collector sue Upper Deck, Panini, Leaf, Topps, etc?