Brady issued or just pro cut?

[respo]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/230716259213?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649#ht_567wt_936

I thought the pats jerseys were made in NY and not berlin? and also the reebok jock tag are usually sewn in the collar on the pats jerseys. anyone know for sure?

[Mulligans]

If you look at the Pats Jerseys from the last few years, you are correct, but I have yet to see an example of a 2011 Pats Jersey to see if something has changed?

This one looks like one of those "Hybrid Game Cuts" that we are always discussing......probably not issued to the team. Because of a special set of rib pads, TB no longer wears elastic in the waist band (unless that has also changed in 2011)....Either way, still a good looking Jersey!

[trsent]

http://www.nflauction.nfl.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=171009652&prmenbr=65664914&aunbr=171356362

Here is an example of a similar jersey in NFL Auctions from the 2011 New England Patriots. Look at the photo with the neck tagging - See that "11-48 Q" tagging? That is the tagging style used in Berlin, WI. The New York style tagging uses year tagging on the bottom manufacture flag tag.

50521

[DoctorLoomis]

Hey guys, I am 99.999% certain that Pats jerseys are now made by Ripon in Berlin, Wi. Sort of like the Titans....they were made by Ripon but now are made by Wilson. I suppose Reebok decided to move the contracts for some reason.......

[Mulligans]

Doc....you gotta tell us where you got the info on the change of supplier....I was under the impression that the Pats were still wearing last years jerseys and they were definitely not tagged like this. I have seen 09 and 10 Pats Jerseys but I have yet to see a 2011. In 2009 and 2010 I believe they were tagged on the tail and they were not from Berlin.

[trsent]

Doc....you gotta tell us where you got the info on the change of supplier....I was under the impression that the Pats were still wearing last years jerseys and they were definitely not tagged like this. I have seen 09 and 10 Pats Jerseys but I have yet to see a 2011. In 2009 and 2010 I believe they were tagged on the tail and they were not from Berlin.

From the homework I have done since the original posting about this jersey, I have also been told the 2009 and 2010 jerseys were of the non-Made in Berlin, WI USA variety.

If you believe the 2011 jerseys are also of this variety, how do you explain the game issued pro-cut jersey I posted a link to above currently in NFL Auctions? That jersey is 100% Made in Berlin, WI USA as the other variety doesn't have the neck tags that jersey has.

The jerseys I am currently selling are the same game issued pro-cut jerseys that NFL Auctions sells. These are 100% original jerseys right from Reebok. Nothing added, nothing altered. This is how they come from Reebok.

[Mulligans]

I didn't know that it was your Jersey but the Merriweather you referenced on NFL Auctions says that it is an "Authentic Jersey".....not pro cut or game issued as you reference to your Brady listing.

How could you call this Tom Brady Jersey a "Game Issue" Jersey? Is that really what you think it is? A TB Jersey is not cut like that? Just because it has tagging in the collar does not mean that it is a Game issued jersey......I guess I dont agree with your definition of a game issued Jersey and I know that there are many different interpretations out there.

[trsent]

I didn't know that it was your Jersey but the Merriweather you referenced on NFL Auctions says that it is an "Authentic Jersey".....not pro cut or game issued as you reference to your Brady listing.

How could you call this Tom Brady Jersey a "Game Issue" Jersey? Is that really what you think it is? A TB Jersey is not cut like that? Just because it has tagging in the collar does not mean that it is a Game issued jersey......I guess I dont agree with your definition of a game issued Jersey and I know that there are many different interpretations out there.

The Meriwether is a pro-cut game issued jersey just like mine. They called it an authentic, but it is tagged for game use. If you look at all my eBay listings, each and every jersey is called game issued pro-cut which means a jersey issued for game use and tagged for game use.

They always are not identical to game used jerseys, as often they are not custom cut or hemmed, but many are and this is exactly how they are ordered by NFL teams and are delivered to NFL teams from Reebok.

Speculation can be whatever anyone wishes, but a "game issued" jersey is a jersey issued for potential game use. A "team issued" jersey is a jersey issued by the team for game use. I do not believe any of the jerseys I am selling were team issued, just game issued pro-cuts which is how I have advertised them.

The jerseys all come right from Reebok. Nothing added, nothing removed, nothing altered. This is exactly how the come from Reebok.

I have been harassed by a few people via eBay's email system asking if I am customizing jerseys and I can 100% clearly state that no one is customizing these jerseys other than Reebok. This is how the came from the factory as game issued pro-cuts.

[Flamechicken]

I'm pretty new to the hobby, but I had no idea that you could buy game issued jerseys directly from Reebok, that's great. I'm surprised that more people haven't talked about it on the forum.

Trsent, do you have a contact for public sales at Reebok?

[trsent]

I'm pretty new to the hobby, but I had no idea that you could buy game issued jerseys directly from Reebok, that's great. I'm surprised that more people haven't talked about it on the forum.

Trsent, do you have a contact for public sales at Reebok?

Nope, I don't have a contact at Reebok personally as they do not sell to the general public from what I have been told.

I have been harassed via eBay email over these jerseys by people who can't believe I have authentic game issued pro-cut jerseys. I am not going to get hung up over this topic.

I stand behind my 100% legitimate merchandise that I do not have to explain. They are legitimate. They are not stolen. People don't like to see people with access to merchandise they cannot locate themselves. I take pride in my contacts in this industry after 25 plus years to date.

At this time, I have showed an example of a similar pro-cut game issued jersey on NFL Auctions. Their description is one brief sentence. The jersey is tagged as a pro-cut game issued jersey would be tagged and only the Made in Berlin, WI USA variety.

There is no reason for this discussion to go on further. NFL Auctions has a similar 2011 New England Patriots jersey for sale that is of the same Made in Berlin, WI USA variety. No reason for further discussion as I have been accused of wrongdoing by a group of people via the eBay messaging system and this is just jealous people because I have done my homework, which is my personal business, to determine the jerseys are authentic game issued pro-cut Reebok jerseys.

Nothing more for me to contribute. My history in this industry is something I take pride in and I am tired of being harassed when I have been honest and upfront with every question and people accuse me of customizing jerseys that came from Reebok just as you see them for sale in my eBay listings. I have never added anything to a jersey and I have never, ever had a jersey cut or tailored in my life.

I deal in a lot of autographed jerseys and I can tell you I have never bought a loose number and added it to a jersey. I have seen loose numbers signed at signings I have worked and I have bought numbers that I sold as loose numbers, but never, ever in my life have I had a jersey customized in any method.

If you are worried, please don't bid. I will sleep well at night.

[kudu]

Why would Merriweather have a "Q" for a tag? Maybe NFL Auctions and/or Patriots customized the jersey to be a Merriweather jersey and label it "Authentic" rather than "Game Worn" or "Game Issued".

[jppopma]

Joel, I think some of the people are taking issue to the "misleading" (I'd go more with confusing) wording that is being used. If it were my jersey, I'd leave it at pro-cut and not even worry about a new "game issued" term. If a buyer does not know what your definitions are or that this is a difference between "game issued" and "team issued", this jersey would likely end up being resold as team issued. That is where people have issues with these pro cut jerseys.

Being a pro-cut jersey will save you all of the headache of where it was made, differences in tags, and alot of other problems. It looks like many are reading you game issued term as team issued, and having problems with the inconsitancies between the too. I will fully admit that as long as I have been doing this, your description between team issued and game issued is new to me. Now that I read it, it makes some of the older debates I have seen you involved in about "what is team/game issued" more clear.

Hope it helps and maybe it will help you avoid some of the attacks.

John

[Mulligans]

Thank you John.....well said.

[93cobra]

I believe the Patriots did switch to Ripon this year....The Hernandez NOB looks small. If you google, nameplate is wider than numbers, his name extends almost to the sleeves. Hard to tell on Brady/ Welker..those look correct to me...Not trying to bash or anything, or say its fake..maybe they are just like nflauction authentics, on field jersey but may or may not be on field name and numbers.

[trsent]

I believe the Patriots did switch to Ripon this year....The Hernandez NOB looks small. If you google, nameplate is wider than numbers, his name extends almost to the sleeves. Hard to tell on Brady/ Welker..those look correct to me...Not trying to bash or anything, or say its fake..maybe they are just like nflauction authentics, on field jersey but may or may not be on field name and numbers.

As the description for the Hernandez clearly states, the jersey was made before he made a number change so it may have been ordered during the playoffs in 2011 for the 2010 season or sometime around then.

[93cobra]

As the description for the Hernandez clearly states, the jersey was made before he made a number change so it may have been ordered during the playoffs in 2011 for the 2010 season or sometime around then.

as I said I am not arguing or doubting you and I understand what you are saying. I have one observation, the name is in a different font/size, this is unrelated to number change. some people are speculating on different things and it is simply an observation on my part. this does not confirm or deny anything.http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/aaron-hernandez-and-rob-gronkowski-of-the-new-england-news-photo/112206396 (http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/aaron-hernandez-and-rob-gronkowski-of-the-new-england-news-photo/112206396)

[Mulligans]

I'm not trying to pick a fight but does anyone understand that these jerseys were never ordered for the player and have never come anywhere near Foxboro Massachusetts? They are typically made by Reebok for us to enjoy, but they are not even close to game Jerseys.

In the original post Rich asked if it was an issued jersey or game cut.....all of these jerseys are very nice looking jerseys and very cool to own....they are definitely NOT FAKE or unethically modified in any way, but they are game cut at best.

I'm not sure why we struggle so much with these terms? If we use the terms game....team....issue, it means that they were ordered for the player or the team.....most of these were not.

[trsent]

I'm not trying to pick a fight but does anyone understand that these jerseys were never ordered for the player and have never come anywhere near Foxboro Massachusetts? They are typically made by Reebok for us to enjoy, but they are not even close to game Jerseys.

In the original post Rich asked if it was an issued jersey or game cut.....all of these jerseys are very nice looking jerseys and very cool to own....they are definitely NOT FAKE or unethically modified in any way, but they are game cut at best.

I'm not sure why we struggle so much with these terms? If we use the terms game....team....issue, it means that they were ordered for the player or the team.....most of these were not.

I don't know details of how they were ordered, but you keep hammering up information that I have not advertised any of these jerseys using such terminology. "Game cut" and "Game issued" mean the same to me.

It was suggested I use different wording with my listings, which I read and decided I will not - My definition for game issued is fair and honest. I never call them team issued as most of them are not 100% customized for game use but have many, many game customizations.

The jersey are according my my definitions game issued pro-cut jerseys right from Reebok. I do not know if they were custom made for the team and never used or someone else ordered them, but I do know they are 100% legitimate and exactly what I have advertised. All jerseys were lettered, numbered and cut by Reebok - I promise you that!

[kudu]

Should the size of nameplates for issued jerseys be the same size as game worn or can they be known to be different sizes? I'm seeing a size difference in the nameplates.

http://cache2.asset-cache.net/xc/127249557.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=77BFBA49EF8789219B309651A2344B3F19F8B2F857BEF0CA 91BBC2DE119FE32F70945DF4D589EA2A

[kudu]

Here is a link to the jersey pic I am referencing is from 2011:

http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/tom-brady-of-the-new-england-patriots-before-their-nfl-game-news-photo/127249557

[trsent]

Should the size of nameplates for issued jerseys be the same size as game worn or can they be known to be different sizes? I'm seeing a size difference in the nameplates.



So you are questioning that the size of the nameplate may be half an inch off from a Getty Image you posted from one game? The jersey is a game issued, properly tagged, 100% original from Reebok legitimate jersey. I'm not selling team issued jerseys or game used jersey.

I'm not sure what everyone is looking for - I found a source for genuine Reebok game issued pro-cut jerseys and everyone is looking to create questions.

I am confident with what I have listed for sale. How much more time will be spent by others to try to prove me wrong? They are what they are - nothing more than that - Nothing less.

This isn't a puzzle.

[kudu]

Joel, in your auction you state "The jersey is pro-cut jersey made for game use but was never used" which to me, means this jersey was made for Brady to use in a game, but he never used it.

That being said, if this jersey is suppose to be an exact game issued jersey that Brady could use in a game, shouldn't everything, including the nameplate, match up to jerseys that Brady has used in a game, during the 2011 season?

[NEFAN]

IMO "Game Issued" or "Team Issued" sounds like it was specifically intended for use by a player on the team, period.

If it was not intended to be handed to a player for use on Sunday, how can those terms be considered anything but misleading?

[woodward30]

How can you call this "game issued"?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2007-WES-WELKER-NEW-ENGLAND-PATRIOTS-UN-USED-GAME-ISSUED-PRO-CUT-GAME-JERSEY-83-/230706082449?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35b7277291#ht_500wt_971

That's not even close to the cut that Welker wears. He wears a much, much shorter jersey with an elasticated, hemmed waist. Seems like you're being very misleading.

[trsent]

Joel, in your auction you state "The jersey is pro-cut jersey made for game use but was never used" which to me, means this jersey was made for Brady to use in a game, but he never used it.

That being said, if this jersey is suppose to be an exact game issued jersey that Brady could use in a game, shouldn't everything, including the nameplate, match up to jerseys that Brady has used in a game, during the 2011 season?


Sorry you feel that way. You posted pictures from one game.

The jerseys are made for game use and never used. Sometimes never altered. The size of a name plate bothers you? Please don't bid. The jersey is a pro-cut. No games being played. You are trying to make it a game trying to show I have something that I don't.

The item is 100% legitimate Reebok factory issued pro-cut. If you have a reason you don't like it, please, no reason to buy it then, but I am not deceiving anyone with the description or key words used. It is a game issued pro-cut jersey.



IMO "Game Issued" or "Team Issued" sounds like it was specifically intended for use by a player on the team, period.

If it was not intended to be handed to a player for use on Sunday, how can those terms be considered anything but misleading?

Sorry you feel that way. I feel differently. I list the jerseys as game issued as they are issued for game use. If you feel I am misleading, I am sorry. I have been listing on eBay for 14 years and have never been told I am misleading because I am honest and upfront.

I am sorry you are not satisfied so please do not bid on the jerseys if you are not happy with what I am offering.


How can you call this "game issued"?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2007-WES-WELKER-NEW-ENGLAND-PATRIOTS-UN-USED-GAME-ISSUED-PRO-CUT-GAME-JERSEY-83-/230706082449?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35b7277291#ht_500wt_971

That's not even close to the cut that Welker wears. He wears a much, much shorter jersey with an elasticated, hemmed waist. Seems like you're being very misleading.

The jerseys are not always custom cut. The jersey is exactly what the team orders and patches are often not added and the jersey is often not altered. I do not alter any jerseys, so if the team receiving a Wes Welker jersey without a custom hem, that is what I received. If they hem it later, that is the final version.

What I have listed is a 100% game issued pro-cut jersey. If later it has patches added and a custom cut, that is fine.

If you feel I am misleading, I am sorry. I answer all questions posed and I try to describe the merchandise upfront the best I can.

-----------------------------

Everyone can attack my listings and my integrity, but no one has proved anything. You don't like my description? I am sorry - I am 100% honest, answer all questions and my items are 100% original right from Reebok.

Keep trying to solve a puzzle that isn't there. The jerseys are exactly what the team receives and if they alter them or tailor some later that is how they are done. The jerseys I have for sale are all 100% legitimate game issued pro cut jerseys. Just what they team receives for use in a game.

I am not going to be baited by people accusing me of wrongdoing. I have listed items made by Reebok. Because no one else has found a source for these jerseys, people seem to feel there is something wrong going on here and there is nothing but honest jerseys being sold as what I describe as game issued pro-cut jersey.

I have explained what a game issued jersey is in my opinion. If you have another opinion that is your choice, but I never called anything team issued. The jerseys were all made for game use but never used. Nothing more than that.

[otismalibu]

I have been listing on eBay for 14 years and have never been told I am misleading because I am honest and upfront.

Still a long way to go before you attain Memorabilia God status. ;)

[Mulligans]

Joel....it sounds like you have good intentions but you continue to say that the Jerseys have been ordered by the team....that is just not true and yes it is misleading.

We have been mocking the sellers of these misdescribed Jerseys for years on this forum and I find it hard to believe that you of all people really feel that these Jerseys are in fact "Game Issued". Aren't you a bit curious why guys are bidding up game cut jerseys so high??

[trsent]

Still a long way to go before you attain Memorabilia God status. ;)

You are correct, sir. My list of Memorabilia God status belongs to you and Warren only.

In other thoughts, I was thinking about this thread and I have decided in any future listings I make, I will give a more detailed definition of what I refer to as "game issued pro-cut" so those who feel I am misleading, which I have no intent, can feel satisfied somewhat.

[jppopma]

Joel, Hopefully by changing the descriptions you will be able to avoid "attacks". While you don't seem to intend to be misleading, there are alot of people on here who look to be mislead by the wording. If it's just one or two people, or newbies, I'd call itr speculation or uneducated guessing. With this many though, it ends up being misleading (regardless of intent).

"game used" "game worn" "game issued" "team issued" "player issued"

When we see these words over and over again in auctions, it is not easy to differentiate between what is or is not good.

I commend you for your explainations and viewpoints. I think many of what you see as attacks are just people trying to undertsand things better or those of us who are just looking to help.

Sometimes extra viewpoints will help see things in different lights.

JP

[schubert1970]

I'm just glad I read this thread before bidding on the Tebow jersey.

[trsent]

I am sorry a few people have decided to stir the pot because I found access to jerseys that are 100% legitimate and I agreed with my future listings I will clarify my listings so there is no confusion.

It is my business how I list my merchandise and no one is being misled. A game issued pro-cut jersey is one issued for game use with proper NFL tagging. Nothing more than that. People can make up whatever definition they want but the truth is that is all they are.

No one else has found a supplier for authentic, genuine Reebok NFL game issued pro-cut jerseys to date. Some day I assume someone else will. Until then I'll enjoy my business and if you don't like my wording then you don't have to bid but not a person is being misled. The current wording and descriptions is honest and only deceiving to those looking to make it deceiving.

I don't know what more else can be added. Someone like NEFAN accusing me of lying? They are out of line and trying to stir a pot because they have nothing better to add to the discussion. I have answered every question I am willing to on this forum and via the 100's of emails I have received through eBay.

My jerseys and NFL Auctions jerseys are one in the same. Pro-cut game issued jerseys with proper, authentic tags from Reebok.

If anyone is not conferable bidding on them please don't. I fully understand. I have listed jersey like these for a few months now and no one went crazy until I acquired a Tom Brady jersey a week or so ago.

I stand behind my item descriptions and not a soul can prove the jerseys are not genuine Reebok game issued pro-cuts with proper Reebok tags and game tags (when they are not removed for alterations by Reebok).

End of story. If anyone has any questions please direct them to me at the email below. I will gladly take the time to answer any the most and the best that I can. I will no loner have arm-chair authenticators like NEFAN call me a liar on a public forum. I have not told a single lie and it shows the problem with a mature discussion - Some just wish to attack and not discuss because they believe they are higher and holier than anyone else.

[kudu]

Here is a pic from October:

http://www.life.com/sports-pictures/129400213/dallas-cowboys-v-new-england-patriots

Here is a pic from November:

http://www.apimages.com/OneUp.aspx?st=k&kw=2011%20tom%20brady%20patriots&showact=results&sort=date&intv=None&sh=103&kwstyle=or&adte=1324020363&pagez=60&cfasstyle=AND&rids=e55fe7b4451348b7b9262417926032dd&dbm=PThirtyDay&page=1&xslt=1&mediatype=Photo

Nameplates are still larger than the one in the auction.

[trsent]

Here is a pic from October:

http://www.life.com/sports-pictures/129400213/dallas-cowboys-v-new-england-patriots

Here is a pic from November:

http://www.apimages.com/OneUp.aspx?st=k&kw=2011%20tom%20brady%20patriots&showact=results&sort=date&intv=None&sh=103&kwstyle=or&adte=1324020363&pagez=60&cfasstyle=AND&rids=e55fe7b4451348b7b9262417926032dd&dbm=PThirtyDay&page=1&xslt=1&mediatype=Photo

Nameplates are still larger than the one in the auction.

Hey, those photos are great to help with my jersey. Look at the one from AP Images! It is the same as the one I have listed with my listing on eBay.

It is amazing - You found two new photos of Tom Brady's back, and look! They are both different locations for the name plate and one of them, the one from AP Images appears to start at the same point on the 2 that my jersey currently listed on eBay ends.

You solved the puzzle - Thanks, Kurtis - That is really great work.

With all the negative posts in this thread and one person with the nerve to call me a liar, it is great that someone who doubted my Tom Brady nameplate found a match for the size on the nameplate.

What is funny is the jersey I am selling I didn't claim to be a perfect match for anything, just a game issued pro-cut jersey which is a jersey made by Reebok and cut and prepared similar to a jersey worn by Tom Brady but never used. The jersey has proper game issued tagging, just as Tom Brady would wear in a NFL game.

Now Kurtis found two pictures and one of them, though he missed it, appears to have a name-plate in the same location as the jersey I have listed. I added the AP picture to add to the listing. At worst case the two pictures show the jerseys have name-plates of different sizes and I didn't even list my jersey to be identical but Kurtis helped show variances with his homework.

I appreciate your time and effort, Kurtis - I'm so happy you found my name plate is close to a game photo's sizing as the AP Images photo is not larger - It is really about the same location.

And if you try to convince anyone that the nameplate compared with the front of the #1 is off, remember, my jersey is laid flat and the in action photo the jersey is stretched with equipment below it. The jersey lines up pretty damn close with the #2 on the arm.

Thanks for the time and effort to photo style match a game issued (properly manufactured tagged) pro-cut jersey that no one ever claims was used in a game.

[otismalibu]

What is funny is the jersey I am selling I didn't claim to be a perfect match for anything, just a game issued pro-cut jersey which is a jersey made by Reebok and cut and prepared similar to a jersey worn by Tom Brady but never used.

I don't think Reebok actually makes any NFL game jerseys, do they?

[beantown]

Nice looking jersey, but name plate is too short....

[kudu]

You're welcome Joel. The AP photo shows Brady at an angle which makes the nameplate appear to be smaller, as compared to the LIFE photo which is straight on view.

Using the LIFE photo as comparison, here is an angle photo from the same game:

http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/tom-brady-of-the-new-england-patriots-prepares-to-throw-to-news-photo/129399808

The nameplate looks shorter, correct?

Here is a photo from the AP photo game, with a straight on view, clearly showing the nameplate starting before the 1 on the back:

http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/tom-brady-of-the-new-england-patriots-huddles-up-with-his-news-photo/134293492

It is my opinion, that the nameplate size difference in the AP photo and LIFE photo is inconclusive and not definitive. Take it for what its worth.

I do commend you for adding the AP photo to your auction, to show the size difference of your jerseys nameplate, compared to a nameplate that Brady wore during a game in the 2011 season.

[trsent]

You're welcome Joel. The AP photo shows Brady at an angle which makes the nameplate appear to be smaller, as compared to the LIFE photo which is straight on view.

Using the LIFE photo as comparison, here is an angle photo from the same game:

http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/tom-brady-of-the-new-england-patriots-prepares-to-throw-to-news-photo/129399808

The nameplate looks shorter, correct?

Here is a photo from the AP photo game, with a straight on view, clearly showing the nameplate starting before the 1 on the back:

http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/tom-brady-of-the-new-england-patriots-huddles-up-with-his-news-photo/134293492

It is my opinion, that the nameplate size difference in the AP photo and LIFE photo is inconclusive and not definitive. Take it for what its worth.

I do commend you for adding the AP photo to your auction, to show the size difference of your jerseys nameplate, compared to a nameplate that Brady wore during a game in the 2011 season.

The jersey is a game issued pro-cut jersey - Not sure what you are trying to prove. One photo is from a different angle? Optical illusions? You posted two pictures and one had a smaller nameplate just like the one in my listings.

Either way, the two nameplates you posted are different in sizes showing no one at Reebok cares about the size of a nameplate like you do in your quest to discredit my 100% authentic, Made in Berlin, WI USA Reebok produced game issued pro-cut jersey with proper game issued manufacture tags.

I know you want to prove my item is not what is advertised, but it is 100% everything I called it. Please, you are not satisfied, do not bid on it. I see the picture from AP Images to be quite the match and at worst proof not all nameplates are the same size.

I appreciate your efforts. Nothing was proven except you have these illusions that my jersey is not what it is and I have not tried to sell the jersey for anything more than what it is: A 100% authentic, Made in Berlin, WI USA Reebok produced game issued pro-cut jersey with proper game issued manufacture tags.

[kudu]

I think I understand now Joel. You are saying the jersey "shell" is a game issued jersey. The fact that it has BRADY and the number 12 on it, is an added bonus. Is this a correct statement?

[trsent]

I think I understand now Joel. You are saying the jersey "shell" is a game issued jersey. The fact that it has BRADY and the number 12 on it, is an added bonus. Is this a correct statement?

No, the jersey is a real jersey, issued by Reebok just as you see it. No one added anything but the people at Reebok.

Please stop trying to make stuff up - You are now out of line and just attempting to disrupt my honest business. The jersey was lettered, numbered, sewn, altered everything by Reebok. This is exactly how the jersey came from Reebok - A game issued pro-cut jersey with proper NFL tagging.

Your attempts to discredit my merchandise anymore with pure speculation is unfair and unjust. I have answered every question posed and I guarantee each modern Reebok jersey I have listed is 100% authentic 100% produced as you see it by Reebok.

Kurtis Duffy, what have you ignored in my last several posts about this jersey and all others that you make up such a load of crap? Everything about this jersey is 100% original from Reebok - Myself or no one I know altered or added anything to the jersey. This is how they come from Reebok.

Please stop trying to confuse people and hurt my family's business with made up comments. I have answered all questions about my merchandise and you making up theories is wrong and bordering on crossing the line of honesty on your behalf.

[jppopma]

Game issued = pro cut. Joel has covered this, but it seems that people want to read into it.

In the breakdown of jerseys we have:

replica: cheap material (5 oz poly or nylon), screen numbers, letter sized. (Honduras)
premier: little better material (5 oz), sewn numbers (colored single layer), letter sized (Honduras)
authentic: better material (6oz, with heavier sleeves, collar, etc), sewn numbers (dual layers), number sized (Vietnam)
pro-cut: made to the same specs as game worn jerseys. heavy duty material, cut options, number size, patches and proper tagging. (USA)

These pro cut jerseys may or may not match up with the team issued and game worn jerseys. The main difference is that all lettering and numbering is done at the factory. Depending on the team, some will have their own customizing done this way and others do it locally. This is where there will be some differences.

The pro cut jerseys are marketed by the factories (not by Joel) as being "the same" jerseys that are sent to the teams. There are often some minor differences even from the teams that have the factory customizations.

In other words, "it is what it is".

[jppopma]

Joel, I see we crossed posts (I type slower and have plenty of interruptions). I think that some of the people are trying in vain to help match the jersey for you. Even though you have explained the difference between the "game issued" and "team issued" definitions that you use, they could be confused about just what pro-cut is.

Like I said before, even if you didn't intend to mislead people....it seems like through it all there are some that are mislead and confused. Hopefully the changes will prevent going down this road over and over.

Best of luck,

JP

[kudu]

Wow you know my full name. Congratulations. You want a prize? I am not trying to make stuff up. I am trying to understand what you call a game issued jersey. Especially Tom Brady. I am not trying to hurt your business. I asked a simple question and you go flying off the bridge. The nameplates are clearly different from what Brady wears in a game. I guess we have a difference in opinions in what is game issued.

[Mulligans]

The only real confusion revolves around the fact that Joel believes that game issued and game cut jerseys are the same thing. We have been trying very hard to convince him otherwise but we are not going to change his mind. Maybe Joel knows something that we don't know as only a handful of people on the forum have questioned it.

The odd part is that I thought that we had put this topic to rest many times before on this forum. If I place a call to Meigray...Steiner...JO Sports today for a game or team issued jersey, I do not believe that they would ever send me a game cut or pro cut jersey.

Maybe one of their representatives could chime in and we could clear this up? Maybe Barry from Meigray would be willing to share his thoughts as they sell quite a few football jerseys.