Derek Jeter Jersey 8D Auction

[yanks12025]

So according to the hologram the jersey was used on July 31st vs the O's. Yet when looking at getty, there are no photos of Derek Jeter wearing a jersey that matches the NY position. I even browsed through most of the year and couldn't find one photo that matched this jersey. I'm surprised when a hologram states that the game it's used in, you guys don't search for a photo match. Thought I'd pass it on and you guys can look harder at pictures.

[lakeerie92]

I looked at the auction and through the pictures from the game and I have to agree with you that this jersey doesn't appear to match at all. The NY is key because the 2 on the back of the jersey matched with many photos, but when you compare that with the NY on the front it didn't match at all.

I don't think this is as much of an issue with 8D (although it should be looked into) as much as it is with the MLB authenticator. It definitely is unsettling knowing an authenticator authenticated something he didn't witness. I wonder if how much contact Steiner has with Yankees authenticators and if they pressure to have these items authenticated.

[joelsabi]

So according to the hologram the jersey was used on July 31st vs the O's. Yet when looking at getty, there are no photos of Derek Jeter wearing a jersey that matches the NY position. I even browsed through most of the year and couldn't find one photo that matched this jersey. I'm surprised when a hologram states that the game it's used in, you guys don't search for a photo match. Thought I'd pass it on and you guys can look harder at pictures.

I have always had problems with the interpretation of the date on a hologramed item.

The date indicates the date of the authentication session. I do not think it indicates the date it was used, although many times this is true. For jerseys, it seems that it was the date is was collected in the locker room after the game. I have seen, at the end of the season, a group of Yankee road jerseys collected during a home game so we know they were not used on that date.

For bats, it seems that it was also the date that the bat was collected. I recall researching a Texiera game bat that had a hologram date of day he hit for the cycle and there were several of his bats collected on that day so there was no way to verify that it was used on the date that was on the hologram stickers as THE bat he used when he hit the for the cycle, for that matter he used in that game. So bats do not seem to indicate the date it was used but when it was collected and authenticated by whomever. The exception seems to be cracked bats that usually are from the same date.

I have no trouble with the description on how this item is depicted on the 8D auction. I do however caution everyone to not read into the hologram date too much and to verify as these two gentlemen above me have done on every item they are thinking of purchasing.

One thing the session date shows, is an approximate time that the jersey was used. This can narrow down your search of images on Getty. So if anyone wanted to try to photomatch the jersey you would in this case look at date prior to July 31. Then again I remember someone here pointing out an exception where a player was still using a game used item (i think it was a bat or a hat) that had a MLB hologram on it.

[yanks12025]

Joel,
The mlb hologram says "Game Used" not "Game Issued". Mlb has a policy saying they have to see it be taken out of play to put "Game Used" and if not, it's labeled as "Game Issued". So if they didn't see it taken out of play on the 31st, then they would have labeled it differently.

[joelsabi]

Joel,
The mlb hologram says "Game Used" not "Game Issued". Mlb has a policy saying they have to see it be taken out of play to put "Game Used" and if not, it's labeled as "Game Issued". So if they didn't see it taken out of play on the 31st, then they would have labeled it differently.

i believe "taken out of play" is in reference to baseballs taken out of play. who takes out a jersey in the middle of an inning?

in my other example, how can the road jerseys be taken out of play during a home game?

how is the hat or bat taken out of play when there is a photo of the player wearing the item in action?

i am just not taking a very literal interpretation of the hologram date because there are so many flaws/exception to the MLB authentication system. but we take what is given and hopefully the system will improve.

[lakeerie92]

joelsabi could be right on this one as far as it being the date it was authenticated. The jersey doesn't have to be game issued. They can tag it with the invisible marker and authenticate it at a later date. If that was done at a later game I have seen them put the later date on it. It makes things very confusing.

It seems as if they Yankees authenticator does things differently than most.

[xpress34]

Joel,
The mlb hologram says "Game Used" not "Game Issued". Mlb has a policy saying they have to see it be taken out of play to put "Game Used" and if not, it's labeled as "Game Issued". So if they didn't see it taken out of play on the 31st, then they would have labeled it differently.

I 2nd this statement.

In fact there is a thread here somewhere about this exact issue concerning jerseys and if memory serves, its states that per MLB Authentication policy, the authenticator must see the player take of the item as they leave the field to be tagged as Game Used otherwise it gets a Game Issued designation regardless of how much use it shows.

This was brought up because someone was asking about having MLB change a description that stated Game Issued and the response from MLB was that if they didn't see it removed, it could not be tagged as Game USED and many people applauded MLB's strict adherence to their policies to eliminate any questions of impropriety.

[xpress34]

joelsabi could be right on this one as far as it being the date it was authenticated. The jersey doesn't have to be game issued. They can tag it with the invisible marker and authenticate it at a later date. If that was done at a later game I have seen them put the later date on it. It makes things very confusing.

It seems as if they Yankees authenticator does things differently than most.

Russ -

But WHEN is the invisible marker daub placed? As they leave the field of play? In the locker room?

Unless they tag it AFTER seeing the item on the field of play and before it leaves their sight, it still leaves open the question of reliability.

- Smitty

[joelsabi]

Russ -

But WHEN is the invisible marker daub placed? As they leave the field of play? In the locker room?

Unless they tag it AFTER seeing the item on the field of play and before it leaves their sight, it still leaves open the question of reliability.

- Smitty

Smitty, point well taken.

[kylehess10]

I recently helped a forum member photomatch a Yankees jersey that was perfectly matched to games a week after the MLB holo date, so it has definitely happened before with a 2011 Yankees jersey.

[yanks12025]

Well after looking, it looks like he only wore this jersey for three games( Sept 2nd, 3rd and 4th).

[jppopma]

Each of the MLB authenticators do things a little different. Seeing that many of these authentictors are retired police officers, I'm sure that it all comes down to chain of custody (like we do with evidence in policework)

The authenticator needs to see the jersey actually being used and taken from the player. Once it is handed over to him, it is in his custody and he has control over the jersey. I have not seen anything anywhere that says that he needs to authenticate and tag each of these items right then and there.

Chances are the authenticator has a secure area that he can store items that he is waiting for process (or authenticate). Since the items have remained under his control, he can rightly authenticate them as being the items that had been seen and given to him -- even if it was days or weeks prior.

I know we have discussed the authentication process in the past, I just wanted to add this as an possibility and echo Joel's message about not relying on the dates of authentication as the date used.

[joelsabi]

Well after looking, it looks like he only wore this jersey for three games( Sept 2nd, 3rd and 4th).

yanks12025,

are you saying you photo matched this jersey to games a month after it was hologram-ed (July 31,1911)? that would make an interesting example.

[yanks12025]

Joel,

Yes it looks like it matches to those three games. Curious why he only wore it 3 games. Cause looking through his photos, he usually wears the same one for a couple series.

[lakeerie92]

Joel,

Yes it looks like it matches to those three games. Curious why he only wore it 3 games. Cause looking through his photos, he usually wears the same one for a couple series.

Maybe Steiner asked for more that they could sell from the 3000 hit season for a premium?

[gnishiyama]

I bought a game used jersey from Steiner where it was unwashed
and can be photomatched to a date after what the MLB hologram states.
This was explained to me as an error by MLB and my Steiner rep at the time
assured me it was getting taken care of but he left the company and
never made good on it. It's not a big deal to me but I had a hard time
explaining to my customer since that makes everything that is MLB
authenticated questionable unless there is a definitive photomatch.
Hope this helps.

[gnishiyama]

Just to add, if I recall the date on the MLB hologram was like 4/6
and the actual date it was used was 4/16 so it was a clerical error
when putting the date into the system. All the jerseys from that session
were the same and Steiner initially assured me by showing me several
other easily photomatched jerseys.
The jersey was authentic so it wasn't a big issue but its hard to
explain to an novice collector.