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Eric
12-12-2011, 11:18 PM
According to the Chicago Tribune, "the New York Giants issued a termination letter that requested JO Sports stop using its images, and the Baltimore Ravens are in the process of cutting ties, according to team spokesmen."

Here is the full story

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/ct-met-jersey-fraud-1213-20111213,0,3087057,full.story

Chicago Bears using a tainted sports memorabilia contractor

Owner pleads guilty to doctoring hundreds of jerseys, but before obtaining the Bears' business

By Jared S. Hopkins, Chicago Tribune reporter
December 13, 2011

With every scuff, stain and tear adding value, football jerseys from a bruising Sunday NFL afternoon can be trophies for collectors.

The damage, of course, is expected to occur during a game — on the field and while worn by a player. But that doesn't always happen.

By doctoring hundreds of jerseys over several years, federal authorities say, Jarrod Oldridge and others deceived collectors and profited illegally.

Oldridge's legal troubles didn't cost him his company's contract with the Bears, who said the criminal activity covered a period before they partnered. But at least two other NFL teams are moving to sever ties with the Las Vegas company while fans and collectors are left wondering whom to trust.

The episode is the latest reminder of the risk fans and collectors face when they buy expensive memorabilia, whether it's an autograph, an old ball or puck, or game-worn equipment.

Unless a player is seen signing an item or giving his jersey to a fan — a la "Mean" Joe Greene in a 1979 Coke commercial — there is no guarantee of authenticity in memorabilia.

"The only way to know if it is for sure [authentic] is to watch the guy wear it and throw it to you," said Joel Levine, a New York attorney whose now-defunct company, Game Exclusives, held a similar contract with the Bears during its 2006 Super Bowl season.

The stakes have only grown as teams and memorabilia companies market history as it occurs, with uniforms and equipment collected after every game. For instance, Brian Urlacher's jersey from a November game against Detroit is available from JO Sports, the company owned by Oldridge, for $8,500.

Fans and collectors are told to rely on certificates of authenticity and a company's relationship with the team or the league. But JO Sports had both.

According to court records, Oldridge admitted that from 2004 to 2008, he and others doctored jerseys and then sold them to other companies, including trading card businesses. Five others were charged as part of a five-year federal sting. Oldridge, 37, faces up to 20 years in prison and a $250,000 fine. Oldridge pleaded guilty to federal charges in November; his sentencing is scheduled for May.

People have collected game jerseys worn by players in all sports for decades, but only in the last 20 years has buying and selling ones of current players become popular. After the trading card industry saw success in the 1990s by inserting a small piece of a uniform into the cardboard, companies that sought to authenticate the jerseys and legitimize the items soon sprouted. Buying and selling over the Internet helped fuel the surge.

Memorabilia experts and collectors said the latest round of legal trouble shows that fraud is rampant, not limited to vintage items.

"Now teams look at us as an industry and say this is a scuzzy industry," said Troy Kinunen, who in 2005 founded the prominent authentification firm MEARS Online Auctions. "And the collectors who continue to perpetuate this, to continue support people involved in this kind of stuff, they're not helping themselves."

There are some reliable memorabilia dealers, but experts and collectors routinely cite how the industry is littered with hucksters and scam artists. There is no single regulatory entity with oversight. Third-party authenticators often serve as dealers as well, a potential conflict of interest.

Even more troubling is that modern jerseys — in any sport — are tougher to authenticate. Replicas already litter the marketplace. And with more games and more frequent replacement of uniforms, more jerseys potentially are in play.

Leagues and teams, recognizing a revenue opportunity, are now involved, signing contracts with companies to handle the sale and marketing of jerseys. Today, it's well-known in locker rooms that teams sell the uniforms, although players may request to wear the same one or purchase it outright.

"Of course, I want to keep my game jerseys," Lance Briggs of the Bears said after seeing one of his on sale for $1,750. "I guess I should start asking."

Game-used memorabilia is still not widely available, but interest and value have grown. The items are not found in department stores or malls. Auction houses typically specialize in vintage items.

Collectors may attend charitable functions hosted by players or teams in hopes of scoring some swag. They also turn to the Internet, to trade on eBay or buy directly from companies like JO Sports.

Formed in 2003 by Oldridge, a former college pitcher , the company secured partnerships with professional teams and launched a website in 2008.

Jerseys, usually wrapped in plastic, are shipped directly from teams, and JO Sports arranges with teams which are to be sold, said Robert Kovacs, a JO Sports salesman.

Oldridge admitted to launching his fraud scheme in 2004, and authorities say it lasted until 2008. Records show he and others swapped the numbers and names on jerseys with more popular players. Records allege he made jerseys appear as if they were worn by players in games by "roughening, scuffing, washing, dirtying" and changing the appearance. Jerseys were accompanied by false certificates of authenticity, according to the records.

Reached by phone in Nevada, where he lives, Oldridge said, "I have no comment. I can't discuss anything about it."

The company remains open. Its website has hundreds of jerseys and autographed items for sale. Videos of employees going through new shipments are posted on YouTube.

"There's no other place to get real jerseys," Kovacs said. "There's a lot of support on our side, and we're still doing business and people are still buying form us."

Matt Conboy, of Roscoe, Ill., near Rockford, has been buying jerseys from JO Sports since 2008 and said he still trusts the company. He said he preordered from JO Sports a bloody, dirty and scuffed Urlacher jersey from a 2008 game at Houston. It remains his favorite.

"It's going to have a big impact on collectors who aren't as comfortable with them as myself," he said of the problems at JO Sports. "Bears jerseys prior to JO Sports were very difficult to get."

But Conboy, who plays semipro football, and other collectors and experts said it's essential to be knowledgeable on authentification — a complicated process where there is little agreement on what constitutes best practice.

Some collectors start by making sure the jersey is even the kind issued for games or one that a player would wear. That means checking manufacturers and uniform materials, as well as players' sizes and specifications, such as long collars or shortened sleeves.

Sometimes, marks on a jersey — holes, rips, stains — are matched up to real game footage like photographs and, for more modern players, game video.

"People ask me if there's a book or a textbook I can look this up in, and there isn't," said Michael Heffner, president of Lelands auctions in New York.

But even photo-matching has critics.

Kinunen said anyone can look at a photo and then doctor a game-issued jersey to make it look like it was worn by a player.

"Photo-matching can be faked. It's a very amateurish way of authenticating," he said. "It's almost impossible to tell on a modern jersey if it's game-worn."

Dave Grob, a retired Army intelligence officer who authenticates for MEARS, said it's crucial to go beyond just photo-matching, and he employs digital microscopes and fabric testing, among other things.

"We're three or four decades where we're into this being a hobby, and very little credible work is being done," said Grob, who limits himself to vintage items. "There's a lot of bad anecdotal information that people have just accepted as fact."

Investing in modern jerseys is risky not only because of the potential for fraud but also as an investment, he said. If you buy a jersey worn by your favorite player from a game last weekend, there may very well be a similar jersey on the market from the same player a week later.

"When you look at what these guys were able to do, they actually had access to product [in modern jerseys]," he said. "You don't have access to product that was produced in '40s, '50s, '60s or '70s."

Baseball remains the biggest draw for collectors, and Major League Baseball now employs what experts say is the most comprehensive authentification process, including on-field security solely for retrieving game-used items. The only game-used items MLB guarantees to be authentic are those marked with its official hologram, with the vast majority of those items sold on the league and team sites, according to a spokesman.

The NFL encourages fans to buy memorabilia through its own auction house. The items come directly from locker rooms without a middleman involved, said spokesman Brian McCarthy.

The NFL and the Bears provide certificates of authenticity, but a dozen experts and collectors said in interviews they're not always reliable. In fact, JO Sports issues certificates too. But, according to court records, Oldridge created fake ones during the criminal period.

Because NFL teams own the jerseys, they can do with them as they please. The Bears archive them; pass them along to the Hall of Fame; distribute them at charity events; or sell them to JO Sports, the team's exclusive partner.

Since 2008, the team has held one-year contracts with JO Sports. Scott Hagel, the Bears spokesman, said the team has been assured by the U.S. attorney's office and the NFL that all jerseys are being sold properly at the company.

"The authenticated pieces of inventory that we provide are assured of being accurate," Hagel said.

Hagel said the team will re-evaluate its relationship with the company when the contract expires after the season, factoring in the criminal activity. "Everything goes into the equation when you're deciding how to move forward," Hagel said.

On its website, JO Sports states it partners with 14 NFL teams. Most declined to comment or did not respond to questions. But the New York Giants issued a termination letter that requested JO Sports stop using its images, and the Baltimore Ravens are in the process of cutting ties, according to team spokesmen.

Some memorabilia executives were startled to hear the Bears haven't taken action yet.

"That is a bit mind-boggling," said Heffner, of Lelands. "There are plenty other willing parties out there to sell."

But collector Rick Moore of Florida, who said he has bought regularly from JO Sports since 2008, wasn't scared off by the federal case. "It makes no difference to me now," Moore said. "When you were a kid, did you ever steal money off your parents' end table to buy candy or cigarettes? Sure you did. All of us did."

Peter Nash, a collector, blogger and author who has helped expose counterfeit items, said investing in memorabilia is always a risk for casual fans who don't do enough research.

"It's a total minefield," Nash said. "You're going to get burned left and right."

Tribune reporter Brad Biggs contributed.

jahopkins@tribune.com Twitter @jaredshopkins

joelsabi
12-12-2011, 11:39 PM
Thanks for the article. I noticed TriplexXxSports (Matt Conboy) was interviewed for this article.

both-teams-played-hard
12-12-2011, 11:49 PM
"There's no other place to get real jerseys," Robert Kovacs said.
:eek:

Dewey2007
12-13-2011, 12:00 AM
I guess the only real way to tell if a jersey is game worn is to send it to a "professional" third party authenticator.


Kinunen said anyone can look at a photo and then doctor a game-issued jersey to make it look like it was worn by a player.

"Photo-matching can be faked. It's a very amateurish way of authenticating," he said. "It's almost impossible to tell on a modern jersey if it's game-worn."

ironmanfan
12-13-2011, 12:01 AM
I was listening to the pre-game show on WBAL out of Baltimore, while driving down to the Ravens/Colts game yesterday and was surprised to hear a JO Sports radio commercial......

Glad to hear that the Ravens are cutting ties...

kudu
12-13-2011, 12:04 AM
"Photo-matching can be faked. It's a very amateurish way of authenticating," he said. "It's almost impossible to tell on a modern jersey if it's game-worn."



WOW!

TriplexXxSports
12-13-2011, 02:14 AM
Thanks for the article. I noticed TriplexXxSports (Matt Conboy) was interviewed for this article.

I was, and it was a humbling experience. My 45 minute conversation w/ Jared (Chicago Tribune) consisted of small talk about JO, but mostly involved how the average collector, like myself, keeps from getting burned.

The one sentence that I wanted ran that wasn't was this (and I'll say it 1000x over) "Every venue for obtaining GU Gear has skeletons in the closet. Auction houses, eBay, JO, ...even NFL Auctions. - DO YOUR HOMEWORK & GUARANTEE YOUR OWN AUTHENTICITY..."

Jared arranged for a photographer to come to my residence and take some photographs of myself, along with items in my collection. It was a neat experience. So yeah, that is my jersey feature in the heading. AND, it was purchased from none other than JO Sports (which whom I personally have had nothing but pleasurable experiences with). But, then again, I DO MY HOMEWORK.

I think Rick's (34SWTNS) quote was the best. Stealing cash for cigarettes... Me - NEVER! :D

TriplexXxSports
12-13-2011, 02:20 AM
WOW!

Troy is right in the sense that grass, or blood, or loosening threads, or paint can be (somewhat) matched to replicate actual game wear. But I will tell you from experience (from playing ball myself) hit marks, stains around the jersey from a set of shoulder pads, tears and the way they happen, EXACT patterning of mud (the texture, or color pattern), blood, paint (texture, or color pattern)... That can NEVER be duplicated. That's why it is key to spend your time doing research.

mickeymbz
12-13-2011, 03:04 AM
Kinunen said anyone can look at a photo and then doctor a game-issued jersey to make it look like it was worn by a player.

"Photo-matching can be faked. It's a very amateurish way of authenticating," he said. "It's almost impossible to tell on a modern jersey if it's game-worn."


Oh and we should rely on a third party authenticator (as he is) for collectors to have a "piece of mind"... whadda joke,,that's the business he's in...of course he's gonna knock any type of practice/tools that collectors may utilize to attain that "piece of mind" without paying clowns like himself to "deem" your pieces as "authentic" game worn items. ask him about the "authenticity" of a magic shirt he sold about 5 years ago.,...

David
12-13-2011, 03:14 AM
A reasonable concern is that the warm reception JO receives from some in the hobby will serve to encourage future forgery and scamming. One reason for punishment is deterrent.

David
12-13-2011, 03:16 AM
I meant future forgery and scamming in general. I wasn't referring to anyone in particular.

mickeymbz
12-13-2011, 03:23 AM
I was, and it was a humbling experience. My 45 minute conversation w/ Jared (Chicago Tribune) consisted of small talk about JO, but mostly involved how the average collector, like myself, keeps from getting burned.

The one sentence that I wanted ran that wasn't was this (and I'll say it 1000x over) "Every venue for obtaining GU Gear has skeletons in the closet. Auction houses, eBay, JO, ...even NFL Auctions. - DO YOUR HOMEWORK & GUARANTEE YOUR OWN AUTHENTICITY..."

Jared arranged for a photographer to come to my residence and take some photographs of myself, along with items in my collection. It was a neat experience. So yeah, that is my jersey feature in the heading. AND, it was purchased from none other than JO Sports (which whom I personally have had nothing but pleasurable experiences with). But, then again, I DO MY HOMEWORK.

I think Rick's (34SWTNS) quote was the best. Stealing cash for cigarettes... Me - NEVER! :D

Matt .. I applaud you for the stance you take on your beliefs... despite knowing you will take some criticism on this forum

joelsabi
12-13-2011, 03:43 AM
Troy is right in the sense that grass, or blood, or loosening threads, or paint can be (somewhat) matched to replicate actual game wear. But I will tell you from experience (from playing ball myself) hit marks, stains around the jersey from a set of shoulder pads, tears and the way they happen, EXACT patterning of mud (the texture, or color pattern), blood, paint (texture, or color pattern)... That can NEVER be duplicated. That's why it is key to spend your time doing research.

just one question: what homework did you do on your favorite jersey if you pre-ordered it?

kudu
12-13-2011, 03:48 AM
Troy is right in the sense that grass, or blood, or loosening threads, or paint can be (somewhat) matched to replicate actual game wear. But I will tell you from experience (from playing ball myself) hit marks, stains around the jersey from a set of shoulder pads, tears and the way they happen, EXACT patterning of mud (the texture, or color pattern), blood, paint (texture, or color pattern)... That can NEVER be duplicated. That's why it is key to spend your time doing research.

Sure, but to replicate a true photomatch. Thats a pretty tough thing to do. And to call photomatching "amatuerish" is a pretty condescending remark, and to me, puts him in a bad light.

TriplexXxSports
12-13-2011, 03:52 AM
Matt .. I applaud you for the stance you take on your beliefs... despite knowing you will take some criticism on this forum

Look, what JO did was WRONG, and it is damning to this hobby. It sits bad with me, as I'm sure it does with everyone else. But, if you want the goods, you have to go where they are available.

I have bought stuff from AMI (we all know their history), eBay (well, that's probably the worst), and other venues w/ questionable reputations... Well, you get the idea. I mean every auction house that runs in this business has a thread started here about an item they're running in their current auction, but we continue to do business with them, ya know.

If you do your homework there are plenty of legitimate, good items out there from all of these venues, JO included.

Do I wish the Bears would cut ties with JO? Yes and No. Yes because what they did was wrong. I do not enjoy knowing there is a possibility (not saying they would, or accusing them) of them tampering with Bears jerseys, but it would eliminate that chance if they lost the contract. But I also know that that can, and does, happen anywhere (as we saw there were 5 more guys that got in trouble, not just Jarrod).

But then again, like I said in the article, Bears jerseys were tough to come by until the the Game Exclusives/ JO era came around, so if you want one where else do you get one (so easily)?

People can damn me all they want on this forum. That's fine. Anyone that wants to argue my opinion, credibility, research tactics, collection, or where I buy - feel free. All you will get is a deer eating popcorn...

mickeymbz
12-13-2011, 03:53 AM
Sure, but to replicate a true photomatch. Thats a pretty tough thing to do. And to call photomatching "amatuerish" is a pretty condescending remark, and to me, puts him in a bad light.

totally agree!! again he is not going to be for something that may negate the use of his third party authenticating business,,,, LOA's are as wholesome as used toilet paper

TriplexXxSports
12-13-2011, 03:58 AM
Sure, but to replicate a true photomatch. Thats a pretty tough thing to do. And to call photomatching "amatuerish" is a pretty condescending remark, and to me, puts him in a bad light.

Correct. You WILL NEVER duplicate a true photomatch. It is just humanly impossible.

Amateurish...? That comment in itself is laughable.

TriplexXxSports
12-13-2011, 04:03 AM
just one question: what homework did you do on your favorite jersey if you pre-ordered it?

I ordered it during halftime of that game. I saw that by the half the jersey was destroyed, I had the game on record, so I called them up.

joelsabi
12-13-2011, 04:19 AM
I ordered it during halftime of that game. I saw that by the half the jersey was destroyed, I had the game on record, so I called them up.

To take a game issued football jersey and make it look like a heavily used jersey that can be matched to photos can be done but it would take an true artist to pull it off.

If that photo matched jersey was preordered and sold right after the game, it would be impossible to fake. It also help that it was never washed. You would need time and effort and much talent and expertise for anyone to pull off a well executed fake. Never seen anyone with that much talent yet.

Continues success with your Chicago Bears collection. I hope someone else get the contract when the terms of the JO deals expires at the end of the season.

otismalibu
12-13-2011, 08:09 AM
You WILL NEVER duplicate a true photomatch. It is just humanly impossible.

Sure, but what percentage of 'collectors' know what a true photo match is? Look at some of the examples of matches, posted on this board.

What? What do you mean the numbers and lettering is wrong? Huh? They didn't use that tag until after he retired? That smudge is in the wrong spot? It's got a letter!!!!

kprst6
12-13-2011, 09:11 AM
Every legitimate dealer should sue the writer of this article!!!

I hate people that know nothing about a subject, yet talk about it like they are an expert.

TriplexXxSports
12-13-2011, 09:11 AM
Sure, but what percentage of 'collectors' know what a true photo match is? Look at some of the examples of matches, posted on this board.

What? What do you mean the numbers and lettering is wrong? Huh? They didn't use that tag until after he retired? That smudge is in the wrong spot? It's got a letter!!!!

And for those exact reasons, Otis, is why you (the collector) need to do your homework...

Eric
12-13-2011, 09:13 AM
National Football Post has also picked up the story...

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Company-selling-gameused-NFL-jerseys-has-been-busted-for-fraud-2442.html

TriplexXxSports
12-13-2011, 09:30 AM
National Football Post has also picked up the story...

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Company-selling-gameused-NFL-jerseys-has-been-busted-for-fraud-2442.html

404 Error Page, Eric. Link is not working.

otismalibu
12-13-2011, 09:35 AM
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Company-selling-gameused-NFL-jerseys-has-been-busted-for-fraud.html

jppopma
12-13-2011, 10:05 AM
Interesting read. Like Matt mentions and we hear over and over again, do your own homework and be comfortable in your purchases.

The biggest thing to remember is that not ever jersey from a rock solid seller good, and likewise not every jersey from the lowest and shadiest of sellers is bad. The broad brushing of ALL JO Sports jerseys sometimes gets out of hand. Each jersey should be able to stand on its own.

SkubeBats
12-13-2011, 12:34 PM
First off I would like to say that I'm glad that this subject is brought up once again. The more times it's brought to the publics attention the more people will be warned about these six guys and their crimes.

Also I happy to se that some NFL teams are starting to cut their ties with JO SPORTS CO. It shouldn't have taken this long for them to act on this. I hope more team will follow them.

As for Rick Moore's (34swtns) comment "When you were a kid, did you ever steal money for candy or cigs? Sure you do we all did." How can you compare that to what Jo Sports did? They didn't just steal change they stole people's hard earned money and their savings. Now that's not even close to the same.

Now for what Troy Kinunen had to say "Photo matching is a very amateurish way to authenticate". I find that statement to be funny. MEARS uses photo matches in some of their own auctions for authentication purposes. Also he brings this up so you feel like your only option is for you to bring your items to him or another 3rd party for authentication.

I still for one find all these 3rd party's authentiction servies a waste of our money. Do yourself a favor a do your own homework!

kprst6
12-13-2011, 12:39 PM
Looks like MEARS just lost a lot of respect and their reputation is tarnished because their statements are extremely amature.

ironmanfan
12-13-2011, 12:42 PM
Looks like MEARS just lost a lot of respect and their reputation is tarnished because their statements are extremely amature.

In case you're keeping score at home, I haven't lost any respect for MEARS..

amature???

trsent
12-13-2011, 12:53 PM
In case you're keeping score at home, I haven't lost any respect for MEARS..

amature???

I'll put money on Troy being misquoted and/or misunderstood by a reporter who doesn't fully understand the industry.

Troy believes in photo-matching and/or style-matching if done right.

How can he not.

What his comments do is give the MEARS haters a chance to put down Troy once again. Why so much hate in this world? Shouldn't we all just love one and other?

trsent
12-13-2011, 12:59 PM
I still for one find all these 3rd party's authentiction servies a waste of our money. Do yourself a favor a do your own homework!

Do you know some people have families and companies to run who buy high end memorabilia and they would rather pay to have a 3rd party who they trust look at their item than take time from their schedule and do it themselves? Don't you know some of the biggest high end jersey collectors are CEO's of companies and they don't have the time to do their own homework so they build relationships with people they trust and pay them for their service?

Sure, most of us have plenty of time to do our own homework, but there is a niche for an authenticator such as MEARS in this industry.

Not everyone has 24 hours a day available to do their own homework.

There is some good in why there are 3rd party authenticators in the world. Some of them, such as MEARS, make an effort to be correct. Others as documented on this forum just glance at an item and authenticate it in seconds - I do not believe this is what is happening at MEARS.

otismalibu
12-13-2011, 01:01 PM
Why so much hate in this world? Shouldn't we all just love one and other?

This question was brought to you by the good folks at Walgreens Pharmacy. If you're not looking at the world through rose colored glasses, we can help.

http://pharmacytechjob.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/pharmacist-280x3681.jpg

trsent
12-13-2011, 01:37 PM
As I assumed earlier, Troy was taken out of context.

Troy Kinunen of MEARS just emailed me the following:

From my notes on the interview,

“MEARS does not photo match, we use the process of imagery analysis. This includes using the process of mensuration, a concept introduced by retired LTC Dave Grob. With photo matching, you must have an understanding of tagging, sizing, style, lettering, numbering, wear, source/provenance, and imagery analysis. To just take a jersey and match it against a photo is an amateurish way of authenticating. Because without studying the rest of the facts, fraud can be introduced.
There are many collectors out there that truly study their hobby and educate themselves, and do not need the use of authenticators. Actually, if you look back at the 600+ published articles, MEARS has been an industry leader of educating collectors on how to make informed purchase decisions.
MEARS does not just take an item and state is authentic, we try to show you the process of how we came to our conclusion.”

Cubsfan4life
12-13-2011, 01:50 PM
As I assumed earlier, Troy was taken out of context.

Troy Kinunen of MEARS just emailed me the following:

From my notes on the interview,

“MEARS does not photo match, we use the process of imagery analysis. This includes using the process of mensuration, a concept introduced by retired LTC Dave Grob. With photo matching, you must have an understanding of tagging, sizing, style, lettering, numbering, wear, source/provenance, and imagery analysis. To just take a jersey and match it against a photo is an amateurish way of authenticating. Because without studying the rest of the facts, fraud can be introduced.
There are many collectors out there that truly study their hobby and educate themselves, and do not need the use of authenticators. Actually, if you look back at the 600+ published articles, MEARS has been an industry leader of educating collectors on how to make informed purchase decisions.
MEARS does not just take an item and state is authentic, we try to show you the process of how we came to our conclusion.”

For an current jersey tagging, sizing, style, lettering, numbering, wear, and source/provenance are pretty easy to find out, so for them to call photomatching amateurish is a joke. It's essentially the same thing as their imagery analysis, but just taking into account the other factors that make a jersey legitimate.

frikativ54
12-13-2011, 02:06 PM
But collector Rick Moore of Florida, who said he has bought regularly from JO Sports since 2008, wasn't scared off by the federal case. "It makes no difference to me now," Moore said. "When you were a kid, did you ever steal money off your parents' end table to buy candy or cigarettes? Sure you did. All of us did."

First of all, congrats on being quoted. That's pretty cool. While I respect your right to have different views, I wanted to present my thoughts as well. I agree that we all have done something wrong, from taking a few extra dollars from our parents to trying to get a free bus ride.

However, in my case, such minor offenses never led to my deceiving the public on a wide scale. There's no connection between when I was a teenager and rode on bus transfers that expired a few hours before I boarded and deliberately altering game used memorabilia.

At the very most, my rides cost the bus company $100. And I was a teenager and didn't have the resources that I have now. However, in the case of JO Sports, we are talking about grown men involved in a scheme that cost collectors hundreds of thousands of dollars. In short, it's not the same as teenage indiscretions.

lakeerie92
12-13-2011, 02:52 PM
But then again, like I said in the article, Bears jerseys were tough to come by until the the Game Exclusives/ JO era came around, so if you want one where else do you get one (so easily)?

I would imagine with two back to back contracts with companies to sell their jerseys the cat is probably out of the bag that they can make some extra money off of game used memorabilia.

Sending JO packing would open the door for someone else to do things the right way. It would be a great business to jump into if you can raise the capital. Most start ups require time to build, but in this case you already have customers waiting. I understand some collectors standing by JO, they have no other choice because that is who has the access to the items you want.

I cant speak for JO specifically, but for some of these sellers this was not a think of the past. This was still current and rampant in the collection community. Here is just a small sampling of what masauction has been listing on eBay for the past month. This is less than half of what is listed now as "PRO-CUT/Game Issued" and there have been dozens more that have already sold. I will leave it to you to decide what would have happened to these jerseys had these guys not been caught.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Derek-Jeter-2-New-York-Yankees-Un-Used-Worn-Pro-Cut-Road-Game-Jersey-/270872718281?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f1145abc9#ht_500wt_1287

http://www.ebay.com/itm/LeBron-James-Cleveland-Cavaliers-Un-Used-Worn-Pro-Cut-Game-Issued-ADIDAS-Jersey-/320810068473?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ab1c529f9#ht_500wt_1287

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Carmelo-Anthony-Denver-Nuggets-Rookie-Un-Used-Worn-Pro-Cut-Game-Issued-Jersey-/320810063226?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ab1c5157a#ht_500wt_1287

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dirk-Nowitzki-Dallas-Mavericks-2004-2005-Un-Used-Worn-Pro-Cut-Game-Issued-Jersey-/270870310910?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f1120effe#ht_500wt_1287

34swtns
12-13-2011, 03:25 PM
As for Rick Moore's (34swtns) comment "When you were a kid, did you ever steal money for candy or cigs? Sure you do we all did." How can you compare that to what Jo Sports did? They didn't just steal change they stole people's hard earned money and their savings. Now that's not even close to the same.


It was more of a "everybody has done dishonest things and I'm not so self-righteous that I write people off who have engaged in shady behavior".....because that would be everybody. You have....I have.
As long as you're square with me, I'm not concerned about your past.

Eric
12-13-2011, 04:36 PM
Picked up by NBC in Chicago

http://www.nbcchicago.com/blogs/grizzly-detail/Bears-Still-Working-With-Questionable-Memorablia-Company-135532388.html

Eric
12-13-2011, 04:37 PM
And UPI

Bears memorabilia dealer faces sentencing

Published: Dec. 13, 2011 at 3:39 PM

CHICAGO, Dec. 13 (UPI) -- A spokesman for the Chicago Bears says the team will reconsider its relationship after the season with a memorabilia company whose owner has admitted fraud.

Jarrod Oldridge's JO Sports has had a series of one-year contracts with the Bears since 2008, the Chicago Tribune reported. He pleaded guilty in November to federal charges of selling jerseys that had been doctored to look as if they had been used in a game and is to be sentenced in May.

The team said Oldridge's wrongdoing predates their relationship.

"The authenticated pieces of inventory that we provide are assured of being accurate," Scott Hagel, a spokesman, said.

Hagel said the team will decide after the season how to "move forward."

Experts say buyers must be careful when they venture into the sports memorabilia market.

"The only way to know if it is for sure is to watch the guy wear it and throw it to you," said Joel Levine, a New York lawyer whose former company, Game Exclusives, had a contract with the Bears during the 2006 season.

Read more: http://www.upi.com/Sports_News/2011/12/13/Bears-memorabilia-dealer-faces-sentencing/UPI-40981323808772/print/#ixzz1gS9f0EJb

Preston
12-13-2011, 05:22 PM
The only thing I wonder is why did the initial report come out what, a month or two ago, why are all these media outlets reporting it just NOW? I mean this isn't breaking news or anything...it's just the timing is really odd, but I'm VERY glad they're starting to really get this out in the mainstream media and get peoples' attention.

nycpropain
12-14-2011, 08:49 AM
It was more of a "everybody has done dishonest things and I'm not so self-righteous that I write people off who have engaged in shady behavior".....because that would be everybody. You have....I have.
As long as you're square with me, I'm not concerned about your past.

Ok thats great now how many federal cases do you have against you or how many times have you have plead guilty to home invasions? Because you are comparing fraud to a child stealing candy. Whats next comparing an falling accident to murder?

And I have never committed shady behavior neither now or yesterday, espically none faking jerseys and robbing collectors. But its good to know you have done "shady stuff" in some form. I guess we I know who to avoid when dealing with.

nycpropain
12-14-2011, 08:54 AM
Also if you stole candy when you where a kid, did you do it for 4 years like JO and others? Or did you do it maybe 2 or 3 times?

If someone is straight with me I will be cool also. But here is the problem they WHERE NOT straight forward as a matter of fact it took a federal case to bring this to light. So if anything the feds are being straight and JO has been hiding this crap for years now.

jppopma
12-14-2011, 12:24 PM
As for stealing candy as a kid, that's why we have these nice and friendly juvenile court systems to teach and explain things to kids. Sometimes kid's don't really know any better or have the self restraint.

I am not thinking that the federal courthouse will be so kind to these guys...


The comparison is almost like talking of a bunch of mob beat downs and then saying, "what? like you've never hit your little brother?".

legaleagle92481
12-14-2011, 12:24 PM
I think if JO is terminated by all of these teams there will be a lack of jerseys on the market. Alot of teams don't want to bother with marketing and selling them themselves it is much easier to let a middleman do it. The teams that do like the Saints and Packers do so on a very limited basis that does not really satisfy the collector. To start a company that could get team deals takes alot of capital, marketing skill and I think alot of teams will be cautious about partnering with another unknown. Who had heard of Jarrod or JO before they got the team deals? I know I hadn't. So I see why some people are willing to look past JO did here from a selfish perspective they have enhanced alot of collections and noone is accussing them with regard to the team deals.

Eric
12-14-2011, 01:55 PM
Chicago Tribune followed up with this...
www.chicagotribune.com/news/tribnation/chi-not-so-authentic-nfl-memorabilia-sold-to-bears-among-others-20111214,0,2199400.story (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/tribnation/chi-not-so-authentic-nfl-memorabilia-sold-to-bears-among-others-20111214,0,2199400.story)
chicagotribune.com

How we reported a story on sports memorabilia

By Jared Hopkins
9:45 AM CST, December 14, 2011



In the Chicago Tribune this week, we report that the exclusive partner to the Chicago Bears for fans to purchase game-used jerseys – those worn by players on the field – is owned by a man with tainted credentials in the memorabilia world.

Jarrod Oldridge pleaded guilty last month to federal charges stemming from four years of doctoring jerseys and profiting illegally by selling them. Oldridge, 37, faces up to 20 years in prison and a $250,000 fine.
The episode is yet another reminder of the risk when buying expensive memorabilia (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/ct-met-jersey-fraud-1213-20111213,0,5518743.story). The jerseys worn in games by today’s athletes can fetch thousands of dollars; scuffs, stains, tears and other marks of use often drive up the jerseys’ value.

When the Tribune learned the Bears were one of the teams still doing business with Oldridge’s Las Vegas-based company, JO Sports, I began combing through the federal court records. Some of the methods Oldridge employed when he doctored jerseys are described by federal authorities in the records, including his plea agreement. The records allege he altered jerseys by "roughening, scuffing, washing, dirtying" and changing the appearance. Sometimes he’d remove player names from one jersey and put them on another. Jerseys were accompanied by false certificates of authenticity. There is potential for more information to come out when Oldridge is sentenced in May or if he testifies in the related cases (five others are charged).

To put the documents and the legal troubles in context, I spoke to about two dozen people, including collectors, authenticators, dealers and auction houses. I also tracked down the other teams JO Sports contracts with. I talked to the previous company the Bears partnered with to learn how that company’s deal was structured. Meanwhile, the Internet has helped fuel the interest in sports memorabilia, and there are hosts of forums dedicated to the hobby and a growing number of individuals aimed at exposing fraud.

No single entity regulates sports memorabilia. While federal authorities have conducted several investigations into memorabilia fraud, it remains an industry prone to deception and scams. We found the legal troubles didn't cost Oldridge’s company its contract with the Bears; a team spokesman said the criminal activity covered a period before they partnered in 2008. But at least two other NFL teams – the New York Giants and the Baltimore Ravens – are moving to sever ties with the Las Vegas company.
-- Jared Hopkins (jahopkins@tribune.com)

commando
12-14-2011, 07:29 PM
This thread is sponsored by Topps, makers of this beautiful Eddie Murray game-used card.

cubbs1232
12-15-2011, 07:08 AM
Why is everyone on here so d*mn negative to each other? Isn't this forum a place to help and educate one another not belittle and degrade everyones views and items?

brewcrew
12-15-2011, 09:01 AM
Why is everyone on here so d*mn negative to each other? Isn't this forum a place to help and educate one another not belittle and degrade everyones views and items?

Cosign to that. That's why I mostly lurk and hardly ever post, because the tone has been so counterproductive lately. I'm just trying to learn about things here, not start debates.

DeacDoug
12-15-2011, 09:01 AM
In memory of "game used" pioneer George Martin Lyons, I hope this guy and his compatriots get hard time. A couple of years at Lewisburg would provide a strong deterrent to future forgers. It is the only way stop these crimes!

dcgreg25
12-15-2011, 09:14 AM
Why is everyone on here so d*mn negative to each other? Isn't this forum a place to help and educate one another not belittle and degrade everyones views and items?

Cubbs1232, thanks for bringing this up. I have been hammering on this for the past two months deleting posts, entire threads and trying to remind people that if their post does not meet the minimum criteria of an effort to "bring collectors together and help hobbyists educate eachother" it will be deleted.

Most of us are adults, and we need to start acting like it. As members we should take some responsiblity for what we write. Just because someone else says something ingorant, mean-spirited, baiting, etc. it is not an excuse to respond the same way. I am sick and tired of the personal attacks, baiting, etc. and will no longer tolerate it as a moderator. If you don't have something useful to say, please do not say anything at all.

34swtns
12-15-2011, 12:02 PM
Funny, I noticed the posts baiting me weren't deleted.

jake33
12-15-2011, 12:44 PM
My thought beyond all authentication is that you, the collector should be 100% certain in your own unbiased point of view on the item. If you buy something and feel it is 95% chance it was game worn, you yourself have entered into the grey area. Kind of like being "sort of pregnant" or "somewhat illegal." This industry needs to move as much as it can to being black and white. In that process, it would probably expose items in each person's collection out there.

Hey, I got PSA/DNA jerseys and mlb authenticated items in my collection w/ receipts of purchase form NFL and MLB. Am I 100% certain they are legit, even after buying directly from MLB auctions, NFL auctions, my favorite baseball team, and what I believe are photomatches. No, I am not and it is my own FAULT if none would not be legit. The sad thing is with that type of paperwork it would be near impossible to prove any of those items (in my collection) not legit.

As for dealers, I am not sure if they are ever 100% for sure each item they get was game worn. Maybe 97%, but doesn't that leave doubt still, and a conflict of interest. If you are 97% sure a game used item is legit, you should undertake it to sell. I wonder how well it would hold up

"I am 97% sure, I won't divorce you someday."
"I am 97% sure, I wouldn't do a hit and run."
"I am 97% sure, that this is my driver's license."
"I am 97% sure this drink doesn't have rat poison in it."

----

It would also be very interesting if the only things we would have in own collections were items we all only got 1st hand from the athlete.

My colection would consist of a pair of Jonny Gomes 2005 batting gloves, Josh Freeman's hat from the 2011 Packer game, Josh Bidwell's wristband from 2005, and 3 pairs of Buccaneers gloves, after over a decade of efforting in the hobby, that would be it.

dcgreg25
12-15-2011, 12:51 PM
Funny, I noticed the posts baiting me weren't deleted.

I cleaned the thread up the best I could on the fly. I deleted multiple posts, not just yours. I am not singling you out and do not care who started it or who baited who, it just needs to stop. I have no agenda other than to provide a reasonable forum to bring collectors together to share knowledge and information. If you have specific comments or posts that you feel violate forum rules, please feel free to bring them to the moderators attention via the Contact Forum Moderator link and I/we will happily look at them and delete them. Thanks.

jake33
12-15-2011, 12:57 PM
And let me say this, I'd say conservatively 90% of the world that doesn't collect, care or even get the hobby. - Not including the card collectors. I think that is a very reasonable number and I would actually say, it more likely is 95% or higher. For example how many people out there would think Albert Pujols' game used jersey would be worth the "insane" amount of $800 or a Aaron Rodger's for a whole $1500. The overwhelming thought is "Uh, can't I just go to the mall and get it for $75?"


With that, this hobby is obviously niche.

Honestly, I wear one of my $90-$200 Buccaneers game used jerseys on game days, ones i am keeping and not reselling. On last sunday, someone asked "who is GIBSON #46?"

My response, "Former safety at USC, he was a late round pick for the Bucs in 2000, this jersey was what he wore in his rookie season."

Other guys response, "Yeah right, he wore that, I bet."

--

My point is that when something bad happens in this hobby, it damages all of us. Whenever an article about fraud in the industry it usually goes the same.

1) educate mainstream readers, who are basically pedestrian sports fans. - The same fans that do not collect.
2) give a ridiculous example of the highest priced jersey in the lot that could be fraud just for an extreme example.
3) Use hard fact to make the meat of the article to give credence
4) Some direct quote by the guilty or some insight from industy "experts"
5) present a small counterpoint
6) All and all the article is made to make the industry look bad and make a quick water cooler talk for casual sports fans.

Basically something for gossip and the impression left is that the industry is on par with used car salesmen. And that is all of us.

TriplexXxSports
12-15-2011, 01:19 PM
Very good points there Jake. I have to agree. Most of us, if not all of us (myself included) have bought something off of eBay with the thought that "yeah, that looks PRETTY good, or 97% good, as you say. There's 2 minutes left, I'll go ahead and pull the trigger."...

It's tough. Autographs are one of the worst because athletes sigs change over the years. They sign different at events than to do at games, than they do at private signings, than they do jumping out of the car at the grocery store. Ya know? But unless you, yourself got the signature, is there any way to prove, 110%, that the auto you just purchased is real? Do 3rd party authentication firms make mistakes, sure. Do the industry "experts" make mistakes, sure. It's human error. As a buyer, you just need to ensure that YOU are comfortable with the purchase, regardless of what piece of paper, or lavish story about a ball boys nephew, who knows somebody, comes with it.

As with you, if I were to weed out all of my gear to just what was handed to me from a player I wouldn't have a collection, haha. Does that mean what I've owned over the years was all bad? No, I'm 97% sure it's not...;)

coxfan
12-15-2011, 05:15 PM
I'm really glad that the moderators are working to keep the site what it should be: a constructive, friendly exchange of information. Good, accurate game-used info is hard to come by, and arguably 90% of the useful info around comes through postings by collectors on this site.

Negativity, sarcasm, and personal attacks discourage both veteran posters and new people, particularly since most new people are a little shy about their initial posts. I know it's tempting to reply in kind when baited, and I've done so occasionally even though I should know better at my age of 63. But there's usually nothing wrong with just staying silent when somebody gets a little under your skin.

DeacDoug
12-16-2011, 08:58 AM
The stuff these forgers put into the hobby will remain forever. How many collectors are honest enough to destroy a jersey for which they have paid thousands of dollars once they discover the item is no good? My guess is not many. The fakes George Martin Lyons sold are still out there and likely turn up from time to time in low grade auctions.

otismalibu
12-16-2011, 09:09 AM
How many collectors are honest enough to destroy a jersey for which they have paid thousands of dollars once they discover the item is no good? My guess is not many.

True. I would guess that the top two reasons for a quick flip are:

1) make some easy money
2) get out from under a bad item

legaleagle92481
12-16-2011, 11:54 AM
The stuff these forgers put into the hobby will remain forever. How many collectors are honest enough to destroy a jersey for which they have paid thousands of dollars once they discover the item is no good? My guess is not many. The fakes George Martin Lyons sold are still out there and likely turn up from time to time in low grade auctions.

Why would you destroy it? Thats when you first try to sue the dealer and offer it to the feds as evidence in a criminal case. I would never sell it but I wouldn't destroy it.

mbenga28
12-18-2011, 05:52 PM
so if JO goes to jail, will the company cease running and what will happen to the game used items from teams they still have partnership with?

TriplexXxSports
12-18-2011, 08:23 PM
I thought the Giants released a statement saying that their contract was immediately terminated, yet JO still has all their Giants stuff up for sale on the site?

Does anyone have any more info on that, or a follow up to the Ravens initial response?

mbenga28
12-19-2011, 09:40 AM
a friend of mine wants to buy some Denver Broncos game items from last season but now is tentative after reading this article. since they had a direct partnership with JO last season, all the items, even game issued ones, should be legit, right? I want to give him a peace of mind so he can go about the purchases.

BULBUS
12-19-2011, 10:06 AM
I thought the Giants released a statement saying that their contract was immediately terminated, yet JO still has all their Giants stuff up for sale on the site?

Does anyone have any more info on that, or a follow up to the Ravens initial response?

From the article, it seems that the Giants are trying to take legal action to stop JO from using the images of the Giants items that they still have. However, JO owns them now and has the right to sell them.

legaleagle92481
12-19-2011, 11:14 AM
Just to correct something Bulbus said. JO and companies like them do buy the items from the teams they partner with and ordinarily would have the right to resell them as they choose even if the contract is terminated and no future items are sold to them. However, the contract may give the team the right to repurchase all the remaining items at a certain price in the event that the team terminates the contract. This would protect the team if the former partner did something so egregious that the team did not want any of their stuff being publicly marketed and sold by such entity. Since none of us have seen the agreement or the legal papers it is mere speculation to speak as to what the Giants action entails.

TriplexXxSports
12-19-2011, 01:56 PM
...the Giants are trying to take legal action to stop JO from using the images of the Giants items that they still have...

So, how would a internet based company sell jerseys of a particular team w/o being able to use pics, or other means of advertising the team inventory they possess?

Interesting thought.

That would kind of touch on what Legal mentioned above... What is to become of the inventory? Does the team have rights to it, or is it JO's regardless? Sure would be nice to see the fine print on that letter...

Another thought here, are the Feds taking any of their inventory in as evidence, I wonder? I know the case was from, what, '03-'08 (before the website)? But what if there is more to the story then just those years? Would that put a target on the jerseys they currently own, or have sold over the past few years?

And yes, at this point it is all speculation...

Titans74
12-19-2011, 02:04 PM
Well written article. Still doesn't change my opinion and I would buy from JO any day of the week. As has been said, do your research and be your own authenticator. KNOW what you are buying, don't just blindly buy " 'cause some company says so".

pungent
12-19-2011, 02:35 PM
Has anyone purchased anything from JO during their team partnership that has come into question? Like a game worn jersey with the team's letter but no evidence of photo matching?

nycpropain
12-22-2011, 08:18 AM
Now that this is over I can talk about this a bit more and hopefully give a tip t someone. Now keep in mind this is one company that people are still saying is ok. My cousin asked me not to post which company (he thinks they will go after him lol) but I think you can figure it out.

My cousin was trying to get his money back on a several Jerseys he bought a few months back from one of these clowns in question, as soon as he got these jerseys he was saying they looked too new (before this story hit). When he called the company recently to ask a few questions they very professionally hung up on him several times saying they do not care if the item shows no game use (RB who ran for 125+ yards with no hit marks, no dirt or grass and looks never washed). They inform him they now only give refunds on rare occasions mostly only to clients they "know".

Lucky for him he bought them with American Express they just reversed the charge for him this morning. I would suggest if you have any doubts you do the same or make future purchases with an American Express they have your back more than one of these shady companies.

TriplexXxSports
12-22-2011, 08:57 AM
....RB who ran for 125+ yards with no hit marks, no dirt or grass and looks never washed...

If at all, would it be possible to get a couple of pics of the jersey(s) to verify the claim?

I think it may be useful, and can help others know what to look out for when buying from ANY company.

We don't need to see the nameplate(s), or tagging, etc. Just some pics of where typical use would be found, i.e. numbers, shoulders.

That will provide us with some detail, and verification w/o pointing fingers at any particular "company", if that's what your 'cousin' is worried about...

nycpropain
12-23-2011, 01:27 PM
If at all, would it be possible to get a couple of pics of the jersey(s) to verify the claim?

I think it may be useful, and can help others know what to look out for when buying from ANY company.

We don't need to see the nameplate(s), or tagging, etc. Just some pics of where typical use would be found, i.e. numbers, shoulders.

That will provide us with some detail, and verification w/o pointing fingers at any particular "company", if that's what your 'cousin' is worried about...

I agree, I asked him today to let me take some pictures. And he said he sent the jerseys to american express who asked for them so they can file a report, he didn't want to be a crook like them and get the jerseys and cash.

I know he has pictures of this on his computer but he wont budge and send them. He says he got his money back and its over, I explained that now that he sent them back they can resurface and this would help ID them. He didnt care and was angry I even posted his story.

TriplexXxSports
12-23-2011, 02:39 PM
I know he has pictures of this on his computer but he wont budge and send them. He says he got his money back and its over, I explained that now that he sent them back they can resurface and this would help ID them. He didnt care and was angry I even posted his story.

And that, my friend, is why us collectors are in a NO-WIN battle w/ this hobby. Unless we make a cognizant decision to take a stand against items with questionable authenticity, they will continue to circulate, and continue to devalue the face of this hobby.

It's nice to see some stance being taken, but it is on such a small scale compared to the real issues at hand with this hobby. And, in the grand scheme, seems almost too little, too late.

I mean this - "Well, it's out of my hands. Someone else can worry about it." attitude sure isn't helping with the issues.

It's a shame he is not willing to help, but I guess it is what it is...

nycpropain
12-23-2011, 09:27 PM
And that, my friend, is why us collectors are in a NO-WIN battle w/ this hobby. Unless we make a cognizant decision to take a stand against items with questionable authenticity, they will continue to circulate, and continue to devalue the face of this hobby.

It's nice to see some stance being taken, but it is on such a small scale compared to the real issues at hand with this hobby. And, in the grand scheme, seems almost too little, too late.

I mean this - "Well, it's out of my hands. Someone else can worry about it." attitude sure isn't helping with the issues.

It's a shame he is not willing to help, but I guess it is what it is...

And I agree 100%, had I known he was going to react like this I would have taken pictures myself when I first seen them.

CollectGU
12-23-2011, 11:50 PM
Can you post the name of the company, the name of the player, and the game it was worn in? Perhae can see pictures online of the jersey still? No offense, but unless you were willing to have your cousin post, then this just add to the problem....Your post is full of insinuation of wrong doing behind no concrete proof...

Dave

nycpropain
12-24-2011, 04:55 PM
Can you post the name of the company, the name of the player, and the game it was worn in? Perhae can see pictures online of the jersey still? No offense, but unless you were willing to have your cousin post, then this just add to the problem....Your post is full of insinuation of wrong doing behind no concrete proof...

Dave

Well then you are left no choice but not to listen to my advice of using an American Express cause thats all my point is. He knows full well about this topic, as a matter of fact he probably has looked since I told him about it. So if you feel like taking my advice great, if not sorry to waste your time.