Ozzie Guillen in Trouble

[frikativ54]

For those of you who haven't heard, Guillen was suspended for five games (http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mlb-big-league-stew/ozzie-guillen-suspended-five-games-castro-comments-holds-153522427.html) for his praising of Fidel Castro. :eek:

The Marlins' manager said that he "loved" and "respected" the Cuban dictator but later claimed that his comments were "lost in translation."

Ozzie has since apologized and tried to make amends with the Cuban-American community in Miami.

[gingi79]

Considering there are more displaced Cubans in Little Havana than actual Havana, it would be akin to the Israeli National Soccer Coach walking around Tel Aviv claiming "Adolf Hitler wasn't such a bad guy. He had excellent interior decorating skills and a fine sense of fashion" :p

[David]

Lot of angles to this, including: free speech versus he's a company employee and representative, political correctness (Yes, pc isn't just a liberal thing), most people in and out of Miami knew Ozzie was going to get suspended for saying something some time or the other, Ozzie often speaks before he thinks, common sense says Miami isn't the place to praise Castro, the team knew Ozzie had a big mouth when then hired him, the team knew he's already praised Hugo Chavez, etc.

[Skizzick]

I would LOVE to start a debate about this. Cuba is one of my favorite topics of discussion and I have studied it in great detail, and even lived in Havana for a semester.

First point: I saw nothing wrong with Guillen's comments, especially considering the man they come from. He said he respected Fidel Castro because people have tried to kill him and he's still here. He didn't say he loved Fidel Castro because he imprisons innocent people or because he is a dictator. I hoped he would have some cajones and stand by what he said, but it seems the Miami Cuban population can even silence Ozzie. If he was still the White Sox manager, or the manager of any other team outside of Miami, this would be a non-issue because people outside of the Miami metropolitan area are just not that enthused with Cuban issues.

Second point: Ozzie, a native Venezuelan, has time and again praised Hugo Chavez, even appearing on radio shows with him. MLB, the White Sox, and the media said nothing at the time. Meanwhile, Chavez is often (rightfully) compared to Castro for his human rights violations and his iron fist over his country

Third point: Does anybody else notice the double standard between Fidel Castro and Che Guevara? During the Cuban revolution and while he was in office Guevara committed a lot more atrocities than Fidel Castro, and even attempted armed rebellions in other countries as well. Yet, he is seen as a hero, adorning many t-shirts across the world while Fidel Castro, who is arguably a lot more moderate and reserved than a number of his companions, is branded as a villain and any mention of him in any sort of positive sense is met with scorn, hatred, fury, and calls for firing. Seriously, you could say something like, "Fidel Castro has good taste in cigars," and half of Miami would want you fired, tarred, and feathered. I'm not a fan of Fidel Castro myself (though his passion for baseball scores some points with me and a baseball signed by him is one of my holy grails). Still, you have to view the guy from an objective standpoint.

Fourth point (though slightly off-topic): The Miami Cuban American lobby has been one of the most detrimental lobbies for American foreign affairs. You have numerous politicians and experts on Cuba saying that open relations with Cuba would end the Castro regime quicker than the embargo and anti-Cuba rhetoric that exists today (and has for 50 years). If they had their way all the time, we would likely not have had any international baseball tournaments with both Cuban and US participation. Instead, the embargo has only propped the man up and kept him in power. If the US government didn't listen to the Cuban American lobby and engaged with the Cuban government, I contend that Fidel Castro would have been out of power decades ago.

Fifth point: THE FIRST FREAKIN' AMENDMENT! A guy can say what he wants to, as long as it's within the boundaries of his opinion.

[LastingsMilledge85]

Fifth point: THE FIRST FREAKIN' AMENDMENT! A guy can say what he wants to, as long as it's within the boundaries of his opinion.
You can say what you want, but that doesn't mean it won't be subject to criticism and penalties.

[David]

I believe in free speech, but Ozzie isn't paid millions of dollars to offend his employers' customers. That would get you suspended to fired in almost any job.

The freedom of speech argument is a bit of a red herring, as he always has freedom of speech. He can repeat right now or tomorrow what he told Time today and he won't get arrested. If they fired him he'd still have the legal right to praise Castro until the day he dies. The first amendment doesn't say you can't get fired by telling the boss his wife is a hag and his kids are retards. Doesn't work that way. Of course there can be practical and occupational consequences for your words.

[sox83cubs84]

In Chicago, the media labelled such outbursts as "just Ozzie being Ozzie". I don't think that's gonna fill the bill here.

Dave Miedema

[GameUsedGR61]

I am a Cuban-American and I am not going to go into the politics of this situation. Personally, I do not like politics and hate debating it. I am all about free-speech and don't mind if he feels that way. To each his own, even though I vehemently disagree with him. One of the things I like about this country is that you have the right to express yourself .

In terms of a business stand-point, I think what Ozzie did was foolish especially since the stadium is in the Little Havana section of Miami. By saying those comments, you are actually alienating potential Cuban-American fans who may want to come to the game, especially those who never been to a game before. Plus, its also a slap in the face to the members of the Marlins organization who are Cuban: Gaby Sanchez, Cookie Rojas, Tony Perez and Felo Ramirez

Even though Ozzie has a right to say what he wants, fans have the right to voice their opinion and even boycott their games if they choose to. I am very curious to see how this turns out

[godwulf]

I'm not a fan of Fidel Castro myself (though his passion for baseball scores some points with me and a baseball signed by him is one of my holy grails).

Good to know I'm not alone in that.

[Skizzick]

The problem with this situation, like a lot of controversies in sports, is that it is the perfect opportunity for people to open up a larger conversation about the political and social nuances behind the controversies. But instead, people just want everybody to shut up, apologize, and move on. The sports media should go to other Cuban baseball players and get their take on the situation and on Cuba/Castro today. I think it would be interesting and it would get people interested in learning more.

[Skizzick]

Good to know I'm not alone in that.
I came very, very, very close to obtaining one when I was down in Cuba. Through some connections, I met a former member of Castro's cabinet that had one and was willing to sell it, but at the last minute he backed out. I got to hold it though, which was pretty cool.

[godwulf]

The sports media should go to other Cuban baseball players and get their take on the situation and on Cuba/Castro today.

I could not possibly agree less.

The "sports media" should focus on Baseball - and, I suppose, if there's time, and space on the page, those other (what Red Smith called) "back-and-forth sports" - period, and leave the politics to the political reporters, pundits, and assorted elected and appointed goobers of all races, creeds and ethnicities.

I don't care about any player's politics, sexuality, antecedants or personal history, whatsoever, unless it directly impacts how he hits, fields or pitches.

[Skizzick]

I could not possibly agree less.

The "sports media" should focus on Baseball - and, I suppose, if there's time, and space on the page, those other (what Red Smith called) "back-and-forth sports" - period, and leave the politics to the political reporters, pundits, and assorted elected and appointed goobers of all races, creeds and ethnicities.

I don't care about any player's politics, sexuality, antecedants or personal history, whatsoever, unless it directly impacts how he hits, fields or pitches.
Well, you don't have to read it or watch it. ESPN has 230 shows dedicated to fantasy sports, and maybe they'll dedicate an hour every few days to E:60 or Outside the Lines. I think especially with the issue of Cuba, where baseball is the one thing both countries agree on, there should be a larger discussion. Hey man, it's what I study. I love this stuff.

[gameon]

We White Sox fans have seen all too many of these Guillen disruptions in the past and they get very tiresome and annoying. Good luck with your new manager Miami fans. This is just one of many more to come. He said he will learn from this.......NOT!!!!

[jppopma]

Too many whiners out there. I personally don't care what views anybody has or much of what they say. Someone will be offended no matter what anyone says.

Respecting something about someone does not mean that you are supportive of that person or activity. I can say that I respect how motorcycle gangs take care of their own business....but that doesn't condone what they do.

[LastingsMilledge85]

Too many whiners out there. I personally don't care what views anybody has or much of what they say. Someone will be offended no matter what anyone says.

Respecting something about someone does not mean that you are supportive of that person or activity. I can say that I respect how motorcycle gangs take care of their own business....but that doesn't condone what they do.
The problem is that what he said was bad for business. The Marlins need to make money, and he could not of said a worse statement to the demographic that is supposed to help fund this team. He said pro-Castro remarks in 2008, but nobody cared because how many Cuban-Americans support the Sox? Say that in Little Havana, and there is going to be a problem. Ozzie is an employee of the Miami Marlins, and (even though it's probably impossible for him) he needs to act in a professional manner. I can't wait for the next thing he says/does that embarrasses that sham of an organization.

[GameUsedGR61]

I am not sure where I read this, but apparently the Marlins were second to last in terms of attendance last year

An incident like this is definitely not going to help put people in the seats (in regards to a segment of the community)

[coxfan]

I've personally known a number of folks who had to flee Castro, and none of them would say a kind word about him. Plus, I lived through the Cuban missile crisis of 1962. All us kids went to high school during the crisis, thinking that nuclear war might break out that day.

So I've studied historical accounts that have been put together about that crisis years later (when some of the people involved, including both Americans and Russians, could talk), and they indicated that Castro came close to igniting a nuclear war. The facts are that JFK resisted military demands that he launch a preemptive invasion to prevent the USSR from bringing in nuclear weapons. But JFK sensed that there might already be some nuclear weapons in Cuba, so he refused to invade. Instead, he gambled on issuing a public statement that he would give a "full retaliatory response" against the USSR if anything was launched from Cuba.

Krushchev knew that there were some nuclear missiles in Cuba, and that Castro was raging to be allowed to use them. That caused Krushchev to to work behind the scenes to defuse the crisis, while having to restrain the emotional Castro from doing anything foolish.

As for Guillen, he's been popping off for years. But his next strike may be "out" so he needs to learn some restraint like most other public figures.

[EurekaDave]

Imagine what would happen if the manager of the Industriales of Havana said the same thing about Barack Obama. You'd never see him again.

That said, the media is culpable in all this. And I can say that because I am media. We get outrageous people to say outrageous things because they make news--ratings, sell papers, etc. Ignore them and -- curiously --they go away.

Ironic that the very people who champion free-speech (we the media) use it in such inconsequential ways.

Dave Silverbrand
das1721@att.net

[coxfan]

General comments about the media are right on target. I've had some dealings with the media in my long life, and I've learned:

1) Beware the reporter who smiles in an ingratiating way; he's just looking to gain your confidence so you'll "trust" him and say something stupid.

2) Don't trust the reporter not to "edit" what you say, supposedly for space. In fact, he may edit away most of your paragraph, thereby leaving a sentence out of its full context, and changing its meaning. But he'll swear you really said that, ignoring the fact that his editing changed the context and thus the meaning. And "editing" gives broad leeway to the reporter to express his own political views (whether left or right).

3) Beware the vengeful reporter, especially if you're a manager with frequent contact. Some of them will punish you if you don't give them enough "good" material.

In general, press conferences are safer than individual interviews. More witnesses are at the conference, making it harder for one reporter to distort and get away with it.

[Skizzick]

Guillen didn't just say these comments randomly in the interview, what was the question that the reporter asked him?

[cohibasmoker]

I would LOVE to start a debate about this. Cuba is one of my favorite topics of discussion and I have studied it in great detail, and even lived in Havana for a semester.

First point: I saw nothing wrong with Guillen's comments, especially considering the man they come from. He said he respected Fidel Castro because people have tried to kill him and he's still here. He didn't say he loved Fidel Castro because he imprisons innocent people or because he is a dictator. I hoped he would have some cajones and stand by what he said, but it seems the Miami Cuban population can even silence Ozzie. If he was still the White Sox manager, or the manager of any other team outside of Miami, this would be a non-issue because people outside of the Miami metropolitan area are just not that enthused with Cuban issues.

Second point: Ozzie, a native Venezuelan, has time and again praised Hugo Chavez, even appearing on radio shows with him. MLB, the White Sox, and the media said nothing at the time. Meanwhile, Chavez is often (rightfully) compared to Castro for his human rights violations and his iron fist over his country

Third point: Does anybody else notice the double standard between Fidel Castro and Che Guevara? During the Cuban revolution and while he was in office Guevara committed a lot more atrocities than Fidel Castro, and even attempted armed rebellions in other countries as well. Yet, he is seen as a hero, adorning many t-shirts across the world while Fidel Castro, who is arguably a lot more moderate and reserved than a number of his companions, is branded as a villain and any mention of him in any sort of positive sense is met with scorn, hatred, fury, and calls for firing. Seriously, you could say something like, "Fidel Castro has good taste in cigars," and half of Miami would want you fired, tarred, and feathered. I'm not a fan of Fidel Castro myself (though his passion for baseball scores some points with me and a baseball signed by him is one of my holy grails). Still, you have to view the guy from an objective standpoint.

Fourth point (though slightly off-topic): The Miami Cuban American lobby has been one of the most detrimental lobbies for American foreign affairs. You have numerous politicians and experts on Cuba saying that open relations with Cuba would end the Castro regime quicker than the embargo and anti-Cuba rhetoric that exists today (and has for 50 years). If they had their way all the time, we would likely not have had any international baseball tournaments with both Cuban and US participation. Instead, the embargo has only propped the man up and kept him in power. If the US government didn't listen to the Cuban American lobby and engaged with the Cuban government, I contend that Fidel Castro would have been out of power decades ago.

Fifth point: THE FIRST FREAKIN' AMENDMENT! A guy can say what he wants to, as long as it's within the boundaries of his opinion.

Lived in Havana for a semester? What's that, 3-4 Months? Hum, at the end of your semester, how did you get home? Did you get on a airplane? Here's a suggestion - why not head back to Cuba and try spending a little more time in county instead of controlled "Havana". Head out of town and perhaps you'll be stopped and checked by some members of the Policía Nacional Revolucionaria, PNR, - you can voice your objections that your 4th Amendment rights are being violated. If your not arrested or beaten, you can talk to some of the folks who have family members incarcerated for life because they tried to voice their "Freedom of Speech". Or folks that had their land taken away from them for the "good" of the Country. Or, family members that were forced into State sponsored prostitution.

Yes, a large majority of Cuban Americans came to this Country in 1980 (Mariel Boatlift) and since that time, the homemade raft is the vessel of choice. So, instead of taking a plane home, try making a home-made raft. If the Cuban Navy doesn't sink your raft or kill you, you just have to navigate the 90 miles of shark infested waters. By the way, if the wind and tide isn't right, we could be swept out to sea and never heard from again. If you are lucky enough to make landfall, you may have a different view on what the Cubans refugees went through to get here and perhaps then, you'll have a better idea as to why they are upset with Mr. Guillen's statements.

I've never been to Cuba nor do I ever wish to go there. I've been a vacationer and owner of property in Key West for the past 20 years and have met my fair share of Cuban refugees and we have shared Mojitos and cigars plenty of times. They are a terrific and proud people and for the ones that got here on the home-made rafts, they have more "b _ _ _ s than most Americans will ever have, especially those Americans who complain that, if its raining on election day, they don't want to vote because they might get wet.

It's about RESPECT !!!!!!!!!!

Just some thoughts - hope I didn't offend.

Jim

[Skizzick]

Lived in Havana for a semester? What's that, 3-4 Months? Hum, at the end of your semester, how did you get home? Did you get on a airplane? Here's a suggestion - why not head back to Cuba and try spending a little more time in county instead of controlled "Havana". Head out of town and perhaps you'll be stopped and checked by some members of the Policía Nacional Revolucionaria, PNR, - you can voice your objections that your 4th Amendment rights are being violated. If your not arrested or beaten, you can talk to some of the folks who have family members incarcerated for life because they tried to voice their "Freedom of Speech". Or folks that had their land taken away from them for the "good" of the Country. Or, family members that were forced into State sponsored prostitution.

Yes, a large majority of Cuban Americans came to this Country in 1980 (Mariel Boatlift) and since that time, the homemade raft is the vessel of choice. So, instead of taking a plane home, try making a home-made raft. If the Cuban Navy doesn't sink your raft or kill you, you just have to navigate the 90 miles of shark infested waters. By the way, if the wind and tide isn't right, we could be swept out to sea and never heard from again. If you are lucky enough to make landfall, you may have a different view on what the Cubans refugees went through to get here and perhaps then, you'll have a better idea as to why they are upset with Mr. Guillen's statements.

I've never been to Cuba nor do I ever wish to go there. I've been a vacationer and owner of property in Key West for the past 20 years and have met my fair share of Cuban refugees and we have shared Mojitos and cigars plenty of times. They are a terrific and proud people and for the ones that got here on the home-made rafts, they have more "b _ _ _ s than most Americans will ever have, especially those Americans who complain that, if its raining on election day, they don't want to vote because they might get wet.

It's about RESPECT !!!!!!!!!!

Just some thoughts - hope I didn't offend.

Jim
I have plenty of perspective on why people are mad with Guillen, I just don't agree with their anger. I traveled all over Cuba when I was there. In fact, I was in contact with a number of families outside of Havana whose relatives I know in the States. Some of whome came to the US on rafts and stolen speedboats. Believe me, I've talked to people who have friends and family that have been arrested or never heard from again. When I traveled to non-tourist areas, I was stopped countless times, had my bags searched, and the only thing that got me out of trouble was the fact that I was a foreigner. It isn't the rosy picture that you seem to think I paint it as, but it isn't the distopian wasteland that many Cuban Americans paint it as. There are a number of misconceptions that people have, largely told to them by the Miami lobby. Yes, there are many Cubans every year that try to leave by raft. No, the Cuban Navy does not shoot them. Cuba has an open policy that if you wanna leave, go. They'll provide no help or no rescue to those wanting to leave. Yes, it is a very cold policy, but the Cuban navy isn't shooting people out of the water as you suggest.

But really, most Cubans leave their country by plane. The US offers 20,000-30,000 migrant visas per year to Cubans. When you consider the population of Cuba, that is a huge number. Most Cubans in the US that have come over in the boat lift or afterward are not as militant as the first generation. But if you talk to many younger Cubans in the US, they all just want to go back, Castro or not (though preferrably not).

You should go to Cuba. So you can see how it really is, but for also how beautiful a place it is. Sure, the government sucks and is oppressive, but the people are still proud and really do with to have more contact with the US. Objectivity, man. So many people lack that perspective in the Cuban debate.

[coxfan]

Does anyone know when and how baseball became popular in Cuba?

A little-known historical fact: Before the Civil War, there was serious talk of the US annexing Cuba (by force?) and maing it a US territory. President Buchanon, who preceded Lincoln, advocated the annexation in at least one of his speeches that I've read. One of the speakers in the Georgia Legislature in 1860, when speaking about the future of slavery, said: " Few of us doubt that the US flag will soon fly over Cuba, and possibly Mexico and Central America as well."

All this talk ended with the Civil War and is rarely taught in today's history classes. But Cuba maintained many ties with the US before Castro. The chess World Champion in the 1920's, Jose Capablanca, was also an accomplished shortstop in Cuban baseball.

[Skizzick]

Does anyone know when and how baseball became popular in Cuba?

A little-known historical fact: Before the Civil War, there was serious talk of the US annexing Cuba (by force?) and maing it a US territory. President Buchanon, who preceded Lincoln, advocated the annexation in at least one of his speeches that I've read. One of the speakers in the Georgia Legislature in 1860, when speaking about the future of slavery, said: " Few of us doubt that the US flag will soon fly over Cuba, and possibly Mexico and Central America as well."

All this talk ended with the Civil War and is rarely taught in today's history classes. But Cuba maintained many ties with the US before Castro. The chess World Champion in the 1920's, Jose Capablanca, was also an accomplished shortstop in Cuban baseball.
Cuba was actually a US protectorate after the War of Independence in 1895 (which later escalated into the Spanish American War). The US intervened in the conflict to help the Cubans defeat the Spanish, but rather than give Cubans independence, the US oversaw the government. In fact, for many years thereafter, the palace that once housed the Governors of Cuba (under Spain) became the US Embassy.

During the 1860s and before, Cuba was a docking station for the US Navy (like Guantanamo is today to some extent). The sailors introduced the game to the locals and it spread from there. The game actually became a symbol of the quest for independence from Spain, whose main sport at the time was bullfighting. My professor at UNC wrote a great article about this. Definitely worth a read:
www.utm.utoronto.ca/~w3his490/A-Perez-Baseball.Cuba.pdf

[coxfan]

Thanks, Skizzick! I'll definitely read your professor's article soon. I've got a shelf-full of books on 19th century baseball, but this Cuban material was new to me.

The 1860's were critical in the development of modern baseball because the "New York game", with its basic rules of three outs per inning, foul territory, and symmetrical diamond was speading across the US. It supplanted other variants of bat-and-ball games then popular that varied on those particulars. Surprisingly, cricket was also quite popular in the US until the "New York game" crowded it out.

I've gone beyond the original thrust of this thread, but a synopsis of the evolution of 19th century baseball into our modern game might be worth a future thread in the "General Sports Discussion" section.

[cohibasmoker]

I have plenty of perspective on why people are mad with Guillen, I just don't agree with their anger. I traveled all over Cuba when I was there. In fact, I was in contact with a number of families outside of Havana whose relatives I know in the States. Some of whome came to the US on rafts and stolen speedboats. Believe me, I've talked to people who have friends and family that have been arrested or never heard from again. When I traveled to non-tourist areas, I was stopped countless times, had my bags searched, and the only thing that got me out of trouble was the fact that I was a foreigner. It isn't the rosy picture that you seem to think I paint it as, but it isn't the distopian wasteland that many Cuban Americans paint it as. There are a number of misconceptions that people have, largely told to them by the Miami lobby. Yes, there are many Cubans every year that try to leave by raft. No, the Cuban Navy does not shoot them. Cuba has an open policy that if you wanna leave, go. They'll provide no help or no rescue to those wanting to leave. Yes, it is a very cold policy, but the Cuban navy isn't shooting people out of the water as you suggest.

But really, most Cubans leave their country by plane. The US offers 20,000-30,000 migrant visas per year to Cubans. When you consider the population of Cuba, that is a huge number. Most Cubans in the US that have come over in the boat lift or afterward are not as militant as the first generation. But if you talk to many younger Cubans in the US, they all just want to go back, Castro or not (though preferrably not).

You should go to Cuba. So you can see how it really is, but for also how beautiful a place it is. Sure, the government sucks and is oppressive, but the people are still proud and really do with to have more contact with the US. Objectivity, man. So many people lack that perspective in the Cuban debate.

Part of what you say is true but I don't understand why any American would want to travel to Cuba. Every dollar spent in that Country goes to SUPPORT the Castro regime. A final note, not all Cubans are free to leave the Country. If you provide some "benefit" to the Country (Doctor etc), you are NOT free to go. And unlike you, I do understand why Cubans Americans are unset at Guillen's statements.

Next week we'll be heading down to Southern Florida. We had every intention on seeing a game at the new stadium. Instead, we'll meet some friends and spend our money in "Little Havana". Hey, this is America and unlike Cuban and and Guillen's native Venezuela, we are free to voice our opinions.

Jim

[Skizzick]

Part of what you say is true but I don't understand why any American would want to travel to Cuba. Every dollar spent in that Country goes to SUPPORT the Castro regime. A final note, not all Cubans are free to leave the Country. If you provide some "benefit" to the Country (Doctor etc), you are NOT free to go. And unlike you, I do understand why Cubans Americans are unset at Guillen's statements.


Why would I want to go to Cuba? To see the place where my uncle lived before he came to the US. To do a favor to the many Cuban refugees I know and get in contact with their families for them. To experience Cuban culture, and because I don't buy every piece of propaganda the Miami lobby throws at me. Listen, man, totally understand why Cuban Americans are mad, but like you said, this is a free country and I don't have to agree with them totally.

To your other point, every dollar does not go to support the Cuban government. Cuba has a huge black market where people have carved out independent industries for them. Instead of staying in a state-owned hotel, you can pay somebody to stay in their house. Instead of eating in a state-owned restaurant, you can eat at one of the hundred of privately owned (literally in-house) restaurants. You can order a private taxi, buy black-market crafts, and even go to a private doctor if you wanted to. While some of them are legalized and pay taxes, many are under the radar and don't give a dime to the state. Not to mention that the majority of Cubans receive remissions from family members in the US, and the Cuban government has no way of taxing that.

[cohibasmoker]

Why would I want to go to Cuba? To see the place where my uncle lived before he came to the US. To do a favor to the many Cuban refugees I know and get in contact with their families for them. To experience Cuban culture, and because I don't buy every piece of propaganda the Miami lobby throws at me. Listen, man, totally understand why Cuban Americans are mad, but like you said, this is a free country and I don't have to agree with them totally.

To your other point, every dollar does not go to support the Cuban government. Cuba has a huge black market where people have carved out independent industries for them. Instead of staying in a state-owned hotel, you can pay somebody to stay in their house. Instead of eating in a state-owned restaurant, you can eat at one of the hundred of privately owned (literally in-house) restaurants. You can order a private taxi, buy black-market crafts, and even go to a private doctor if you wanted to. While some of them are legalized and pay taxes, many are under the radar and don't give a dime to the state. Not to mention that the majority of Cubans receive remissions from family members in the US, and the Cuban government has no way of taxing that.

I rarely read published articles because like American journalist, most articles are slanted to the writer's own personal and/or political views. I prefer to interact with people who were actually there and love hearing what they have to say.

I am glad you brought up the "black market" because it is a terrific example of how the Cuban people struggle on a daily basis under the repressive Cuban government and that is a small example of why the Cuban Americans are pissed at Guillen.

I'll be in the Miami area in 10 days and can't wait to listen to what the Cuban Americans have to say. NO books, NO literature and NO radio broadcasts - just one on one interpersonal communications.

Jim

[Skizzick]

I rarely read published articles because like American journalist, most articles are slanted to the writer's own personal and/or political views. I prefer to interact with people who were actually there and love hearing what they have to say.

I am glad you brought up the "black market" because it is a terrific example of how the Cuban people struggle on a daily basis under the repressive Cuban government and that is a small example of why the Cuban Americans are pissed at Guillen.

I'll be in the Miami area in 10 days and can't wait to listen to what the Cuban Americans have to say. NO books, NO literature and NO radio broadcasts - just one on one interpersonal communications.

Jim
I prefer to interact with people who were there, too. I also prefer to interact with people who ARE there. Get both sides of the story, and get a more authentic understanding for how it is in Cuba today. And if you want to know the truth, a good majority of the Cuban population hate Castro, but they hate the Miami Cuban Americans just as much.

But you're right, the black market is a good indication of how bad things can be there with government economical repression, but in the grand scheme of things, the black market is also a sign that government control over the population is fading.

[cohibasmoker]

I prefer to interact with people who were there, too. I also prefer to interact with people who ARE there. Get both sides of the story, and get a more authentic understanding for how it is in Cuba today. And if you want to know the truth, a good majority of the Cuban population hate Castro, but they hate the Miami Cuban Americans just as much.

But you're right, the black market is a good indication of how bad things can be there with government economical repression, but in the grand scheme of things, the black market is also a sign that government control over the population is fading.

Do you live near Miami or southern Florida? I ask because your statement that a good majority of the Cuban population hates the Miami Cuban Americans as much as Castro is quite a statement so I was just wondering how did you quantify that? As for the government control fading, Raul is harder on the Cuban people than Fidel was/is and the folks in-line to take over, are hard core Communists.

Jim

[Skizzick]

Do you live near Miami or southern Florida? I ask because your statement that a good majority of the Cuban population hates the Miami Cuban Americans as much as Castro is quite a statement so I was just wondering how did you quantify that? As for the government control fading, Raul is harder on the Cuban people than Fidel was/is and the folks in-line to take over, are hard core Communists.

Jim
I live in Central NJ, which has a huge Cuban population (NJ has the 3rd largest concentration of Cubans behind Havana and Miami), plus I have a lot of family down in the Miami/Ft. Lauderadale area whom I visit often. I also have a great-uncle that left Cuba in the late 1950s, amist the violence from the war. He used to be very hardline about enforcing the embargo, but he has even said it's time to move on.

And while Raul is personally a lot more hardline than his brother, the guy has implemented a number of reforms in the past couple of years, mostly allowing people to open their own businesses and promoting more private sector jobs. Also, the Raul government has engaged the US government on some diplomatic agreements, which mainly deal with drug enforcement and immigration.

[cohibasmoker]

I live in Central NJ, which has a huge Cuban population (NJ has the 3rd largest concentration of Cubans behind Havana and Miami), plus I have a lot of family down in the Miami/Ft. Lauderadale area whom I visit often. I also have a great-uncle that left Cuba in the late 1950s, amist the violence from the war. He used to be very hardline about enforcing the embargo, but he has even said it's time to move on.

And while Raul is personally a lot more hardline than his brother, the guy has implemented a number of reforms in the past couple of years, mostly allowing people to open their own businesses and promoting more private sector jobs. Also, the Raul government has engaged the US government on some diplomatic agreements, which mainly deal with drug enforcement and immigration.

So you must be up near Union, NJ? I asked because your statement, "a good majority of the Cuban population hate Castro, but they hate the Miami Cuban Americans just as much" pretty much indicts a large portion of Cuban immigrants.

As for the so-called reforms, Communism will continue. I haven't checked lately but is the average Monthly income on the Island still around $25.00 - $30.00 per Month? With the Government's export of oil, sugar-cane and tobacco, that's pretty sad. Thankfully, residents have the black market to make extra income - that's unless they are caught and placed in jail and their home seized by the government. Immigration has also changed unless your are an "asset" to the government - if you are an asset, you had better build a raft because you're not going anywhere. Just a few "Positive" steps.

As stated, we'll be heading down to Miami next week - I am interested to see what the situation is down there. I'm pretty sure I won't be seeing a whole lot of Marlins memorabilia - but we'll see.

Jim