Questionable Ryan Braun Game Used Jersey/MLB Authentication

[ironmanfan]

Good TV piece done on a questionable Braun Game Used jersey plus a nice behind the scenes look at the MLB Authentication process in Milwaukee...

http://www.sportscollectorsdaily.com/braun-game-jerseys-microscope/

[marino13]

I wonder if LoJo actually waited until Monday to have the jersey delivered by FedEx. :D


But on a serious note - this "G/U '11" sounds very very fishy. If MLB doesnt state as such - it is NOT.

[schubert1970]

Looks like Braun or his memorabilia agents took a page out of Aroids book. He did this with the Rangers along with Pudge and a few others.

Photo match is best.

[coxfan]

These videos are very informative and thanks for sharing. I've watched the one on the authenticator twice through your link. It's interesting that the bat boy spoke to her as he brought the ball. That's a useful double-check that Ive seen the Rangers do also.

It's odd that they say she posts directly on brewers.com I assume they mean the MLB authentication site, which would be linked through each club's site, rather than on the club site as such.

[ivo610]

Reminds me of the Favre jersey thing not too long ago.

[yanks12025]

Looks like Braun or his memorabilia agents took a page out of Aroids book. He did this with the Rangers along with Pudge and a few others.

Photo match is best.


You're too funny, every comment out of your mouth has to deal with bad mouthing arod. Yet again you're a fan of Pete Rose who is the end is worst then arod. Pete gambled on the game, corked his bat, signs stupid baseballs saying he killed JFK. And I'm sure he's cheated in other ways.

[schubert1970]

You're too funny, every comment out of your mouth has to deal with bad mouthing arod. Yet again you're a fan of Pete Rose who is the end is worst then arod. Pete gambled on the game, corked his bat, signs stupid baseballs saying he killed JFK. And I'm sure he's cheated in other ways.

Stop it already...

[schubert1970]

You're too funny, every comment out of your mouth has to deal with bad mouthing arod. Yet again you're a fan of Pete Rose who is the end is worst then arod. Pete gambled on the game, corked his bat, signs stupid baseballs saying he killed JFK. And I'm sure he's cheated in other ways.

On a serious note, what I said is 100% true....read this post from one of the biggest Arod fans on the board.

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=11606&highlight=alex+rodriguez

[schubert1970]

3AROD13

Since joining this forum over the past couple of years, I have learned so much about Arod's signing habits. It saddens me for what I have learned in this forum. At first, I defended him. Today, I don't.

I'm lucky enough to have Arod's HR #15 (20th of Career) HR bat from 1996. Solid documentation and very early HR gamer from his first full year in the majors.

I guess what bothers me the most is, early in his career, he was young and naive, and many took advantage of that by having him sign game used on items that weren't. However, over the years, he still continues to sign Game Used on almost anything that is put in front of him, depending on who he is signing things for. I do know that that MVP (Mario) ensures that everything he sells is 100% authentic.

As I always say, everything seems to be amout the almighty dollar. I would think with someone like Arod, he would do his best to ensure his fans and collectors only buy the real deal.

Before joining this forum, I wouldn't have hesitated to by anything Arod signed Game Used. Today, I hesitate on everything. Sad!

Regards, Tony

[joelsabi]

"And is it possible that players can sometimes bypass the system to make a few bucks on their own?

That seems to be at the root of an issue over some Ryan Braun game worn jerseys. A local shop is selling them as game worn and Braun's reps back that up. The Brewers, however, don't have a record of the jerseys as anything except having been autographed."

Above is a quote from the original article.

Here is example where additional provenance from Braun's rep would have been helpful. In this case, the MLB hologram is only for the autograph but Braun puts a GU inscription. Is this enough to say its game used? I guess Braun has to trust his reps as to what is put in front of him to sign. In this case Braun signs a "GU 2011" inscription.

It is perfectly legit that players order extra jerseys which schubert1970 alluded to. This is why the Brewer equipment manager was not aware of this particular jersey. I think the author of the article keeps referring to MLB as Brewers at times in the article which is confusing too. In the end, the buyer decides to return the jersey arguing that the hologram says it's only an autograph jersey. the buyers seems like a typical rely-on-COA type buyer who buys stuff with MLB holograms but fails to look it up before she buys it. There is no further investigation of wear and usage by the buyer and the store decides to give a refund and defends the jersey as game used. I cannot hear the audio of the store dealer during the interview to hear his side of the story. Unfortunately this collector does not have the knowledge of the different sources of possible legit jerseys other than from the team itself. A lot of the misunderstanding between the buyer and seller could have been avoided with a little more education by the seller on how the jersey was obtained and why it was not entered into the database as game used. From her collection shown on the video, she was a good customer of the shop (“for anybody else I probably wouldn’t have taken the jersey back”) and probably had no interest in trying the photomatch the jersey. I wonder what other paperwork (letter from Rep) was given to her and what the shop owner said in his interview.

Would a MLB hologram for the autograph with a GU inscription be good enough to buy a jersey? Handler/reps have been known to mismanage game used items they represent so a signed LOA from the player would give some confidence after examining the jersey for use and photo matching purposes.

Also, an additional comment about the “special inscription” should be entered into the database to insure that the inscription is not added after the autograph session. If the jersey was actually game used, it looked at first sight to be lightly used.

[jbean023]

I will say there are jerseys that mlb states add team issued but were obviously used the authenticator just didn't see it.

[Cubsfan4life]

I don't understand what the big deal is. Not all game used items are MLB holgrammed and many signings apply MLB authentication stickers for autographs. If someone doesn't do the research and doesn't understand the process or the possible trail of an item, then they either ask around or not collect. I don't understand how they make such a big deal of the jersey being authenticated as an autographed item. If you collect game used jerseys, you should at least know what a game issued jersey looks like. If you don't know what tags look like, you shouldn't just go out and spend $2500. They mention that they just bought a $140 jersey signed by Braun, so it's clear they put all their trust in a MLB authentication sticker and didn't even think to check the number before buying. Just from looking at the video, the jersey seems to show use. If you depend on LOAs and certificates and accuse anything lacking authentication as fake without any of your own research, it just shows the your lack of knowledge on the subject.

[Trublubrucru]

Just as a point of reference, since the Brewers changed uniform styles in 2000, all jerseys have chain stitched neck tags sewn in. Regular, alternate, and one time styles all have neck tags in some form. I would be highly suspect of one that didn't have one.

[joelsabi]

I don't understand what the big deal is. Not all game used items are MLB holgrammed and many signings apply MLB authentication stickers for autographs. If someone doesn't do the research and doesn't understand the process or the possible trail of an item, then they either ask around or not collect. I don't understand how they make such a big deal of the jersey being authenticated as an autographed item. If you collect game used jerseys, you should at least know what a game issued jersey looks like. If you don't know what tags look like, you shouldn't just go out and spend $2500. They mention that they just bought a $140 jersey signed by Braun, so it's clear they put all their trust in a MLB authentication sticker and didn't even think to check the number before buying. Just from looking at the video, the jersey seems to show use. If you depend on LOAs and certificates and accuse anything lacking authentication as fake without any of your own research, it just shows the your lack of knowledge on the subject.

great points. i think the portrayal of the hobby was very negative from the report, even siting the report of 1990 to represent the type of environment that is in the hobby today seems off base. I think the undercover news caster need to balance the report with an interview of a game used collector to show how ridiculous it was to call the jersey an outright fake based on her evidence. i would call the purchase more like buyer's remorse and lack of education too.

[marino13]

I don't understand what the big deal is. Not all game used items are MLB holgrammed and many signings apply MLB authentication stickers for autographs. If someone doesn't do the research and doesn't understand the process or the possible trail of an item, then they either ask around or not collect. I don't understand how they make such a big deal of the jersey being authenticated as an autographed item. If you collect game used jerseys, you should at least know what a game issued jersey looks like. If you don't know what tags look like, you shouldn't just go out and spend $2500. They mention that they just bought a $140 jersey signed by Braun, so it's clear they put all their trust in a MLB authentication sticker and didn't even think to check the number before buying. Just from looking at the video, the jersey seems to show use. If you depend on LOAs and certificates and accuse anything lacking authentication as fake without any of your own research, it just shows the your lack of knowledge on the subject.


Most of my game used stuff have MLB holograms on them. I have not pick up ANYTHING without the holograms.

I am sorry - with so many good "fakes" out there - I have NO reason to trust anyone word and so forth.


As for MLB database, we all know it is NOT perfect but it is BEST available. As a collector, I am putting my trust in the authenticator's words/description. We all know the policy - if the authenticator didnt see it, he/she can authenticated as such.


PS. Before I make any MLB game used stuff - I always check on MLB hologram and see what it stated. If I like the description, I will buy it. If it is questionable - I would just walk away!

[Cubsfan4life]

Most of my game used stuff have MLB holograms on them. I have not pick up ANYTHING without the holograms.

I am sorry - with so many good "fakes" out there - I have NO reason to trust anyone word and so forth.


As for MLB database, we all know it is NOT perfect but it is BEST available. As a collector, I am putting my trust in the authenticator's words/description. We all know the policy - if the authenticator didnt see it, he/she can authenticated as such.


PS. Before I make any MLB game used stuff - I always check on MLB hologram and see what it stated. If I like the description, I will buy it. If it is questionable - I would just walk away!

Ya I prefer MLB authentication as well, but not all items have it. For the most part it is limited to jerseys, bats, baseballs, and lineup cards. I perfectly understand collecting only MLB authenticated items as they rarely make mistakes, but items such as cleats, helmets, and uncracked bats usually don't have holograms. For me that just means I have to do research before buying. A photo match is always the best assurance an item is real. The people in the video just assume it is fake because it doesn't have a sticker listing it as game used, which is frustrating.

[nycpropain]

http://fox6now.com/2012/07/01/contact-6-tips-on-purchasing-authenticated-sports-memorabilia/

[marino13]

Since I only collect MLB related items - I would say MLB hologram stands pretty high on the list of "proof and provenance".

Steinersports hologram & LOA stands close second.

PSA/DNA is third.


And if the item came from the "player" himself - then it would be in the top three somewhere.


For me, MLB hologram is the MAIN reason why I am willing to pay for any item. Without it, I would hesitate just a bit.

Secondly, I always verify the MLB hologram on its information before making any purchase. If I like what I read, I will buy it. If the info is some what ambiguous, I will pass!



So, back to the buyer from this story, she made one obvious mistake -she did not check on info of the MLB hologram - if she did, she would NOT have purchased the jersey in the first place.