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schubert1970
08-24-2012, 11:33 AM
I think Lance Armstrong and Mark McGwire should create the cheaters tour and have Jeff Bagwell as the keynote speaker and Barry Bonds as the grand marshall.

Also, I can't wait to hear Pujol's or Jeter's excuse when they get caught.

How Ironic the only true clean player in baseball is the ex-drug addict Josh Hamilton.

Jags Fan Dan
08-24-2012, 11:45 AM
While I agree cheating at any given sport is bad for the sport, the $500 million he raised for cancer research as an indirect result of his cheating is hard to argue with. There are bigger things than the sport of cycling.

gorilla777
08-24-2012, 11:54 AM
The inclusion of Jeter here in this sort of post is pretty weak.

yanks12025
08-24-2012, 12:42 PM
I'd say there's a bigger chance of Hamilton using then jeter.

suave1477
08-24-2012, 01:57 PM
I'd say there's a bigger chance of Hamilton using then jeter.

I would agree with this. I am a bit chocked you would throw Jeter into the mix as he has never shown any kind of power and has been proven of his athleticism defenesively in the field as compared to other better short stops. The only thing I can give you on this would be his consistentcy to hit the ball and you dont need a drug for that you just need good hand eye coordination of where to place the bat when the ball comes........ which to add to this as ironic as it sounds I hear on the Yankees radio the other day, that Jeter is one of the leading canddiates of most strikeouts of our era. So its almost like Jeter contacts the ball and gets a single or makes no contact at all. Go figure!!

As far as Hamilton I truly love to believe he is clean at this point, but lets be realistic with power numbers that he has put up and lets not forget about smashing the home run record during the derby, if anyone may get a glance what he does behind closed doors, would be him.

suave1477
08-24-2012, 01:58 PM
I meant to putt hat Jeter has proven defensively in the field not to be the best short stop

schubert1970
08-24-2012, 02:09 PM
I would agree with this. I am a bit chocked you would throw Jeter into the mix as he has never shown any kind of power and has been proven of his athleticism defenesively in the field as compared to other better short stops. The only thing I can give you on this would be his consistentcy to hit the ball and you dont need a drug for that you just need good hand eye coordination of where to place the bat when the ball comes........ which to add to this as ironic as it sounds I hear on the Yankees radio the other day, that Jeter is one of the leading canddiates of most strikeouts of our era. So its almost like Jeter contacts the ball and gets a single or makes no contact at all. Go figure!!

As far as Hamilton I truly love to believe he is clean at this point, but lets be realistic with power numbers that he has put up and lets not forget about smashing the home run record during the derby, if anyone may get a glance what he does behind closed doors, would be him.


I think the fact Josh has taken a drug tests for several years two or three times a week keeps him clean in my book. I don't know of another play who has been more scrutinized.

schubert1970
08-24-2012, 02:11 PM
I meant to putt hat Jeter has proven defensively in the field not to be the best short stop


Who else has ever had a career year at almost age 39? I can think of two right off the top of me head....Clemens and Bonds.

gorilla777
08-24-2012, 03:28 PM
I would recommend checking out the stats for these players in their late 30s and early 40s on baseball reference.com. There may be others, but thought of these initially.

George Brett
Hank Aaron
Paul Molitor
Mike Schmidt
Pete Rose
Tony Gwynn
Warren Spahn
Stan Musial

gingi79
08-24-2012, 03:41 PM
Who else has ever had a career year at almost age 39? I can think of two right off the top of me head....Clemens and Bonds.

See, this perfectly illustrates why Steroids and HGH have ruined the game for so many fans. No one is above reproach and every player now is considered a cheat by someone, somewhere.

I expect unsubstatiated whispers about Jose Bautista, Mike Trout, Chipper Jones, Mariano Rivera, Buster Posey, Stephen Strasburg, David Wright and Matt Holliday will come from "fans" and thoughtless blogging morons pretending to be Sportswriters (I'm looking at you, Skip Bayliss, you pompous blowhard)

suave1477
08-24-2012, 04:11 PM
Who else has ever had a career year at almost age 39? I can think of two right off the top of me head....Clemens and Bonds.

I reiterate you are talking about Power. Clemens and Bonds have both shown power going into later years.

Jeter has never shown any unexplained power or even speed for that matter.

He just has good hand - eye coordination.

If PED's somehow helps you see the ball and react better to it, then yes I would say you can throw Jeter into the bunch but until then I have only heard of the PED's help heal muscle mass quicker and providing more power. But then you may say the Greenies helped Rose??? lol

flota89
08-24-2012, 04:32 PM
I think Lance Armstrong and Mark McGwire should create the cheaters tour and have Jeff Bagwell as the keynote speaker and Barry Bonds as the grand marshall.

Also, I can't wait to hear Pujol's or Jeter's excuse when they get caught.

How Ironic the only true clean player in baseball is the ex-drug addict Josh Hamilton.

So, Josh Hamilton is the only clean baseball player?

Cool story.

Sincerely,

The majority of mlb players

Bondsgloves
08-24-2012, 04:34 PM
I think the fact Josh has taken a drug tests for several years two or three times a week keeps him clean in my book. I don't know of another play who has been more scrutinized.


Lance Armstrong claims he was tested over 500 times.

I have been told by both scouts and players PED's help improve your eye sight as well.

A large % of players are still using, there is just to much money in the game. Just because there is testing the system is flawed, cyclist, football players, boxers, olympians are still using.

frikativ54
08-24-2012, 05:33 PM
I think Lance Armstrong and Mark McGwire should create the cheaters tour and have Jeff Bagwell as the keynote speaker and Barry Bonds as the grand marshall.

Also, I can't wait to hear Pujol's or Jeter's excuse when they get caught.

How Ironic the only true clean player in baseball is the ex-drug addict Josh Hamilton.

Jeff Bagwell has never failed a test for PEDs and was not named in the Mitchell Report. While Bagwell may well have used, let's stick to the facts here and not throw Pujols and Jeter's names into the mix until we have conclusive proof.

schubert1970
08-24-2012, 05:44 PM
I would recommend checking out the stats for these players in their late 30s and early 40s on baseball reference.com. There may be others, but thought of these initially.

George Brett
Hank Aaron
Paul Molitor
Mike Schmidt
Pete Rose
Tony Gwynn
Warren Spahn
Stan Musial

George Brett - Age 38 .255 Age 39 .285 Age 40 .266

Hank Aaron - Age 39 he had a great year, not a career year. Age 38, 40, 41 he batted .234 to .265

Paul Molitor - He did have a career year at ages 37 and 39

Mike Schmidt - Age 38 & 39 batted .242 and .203

Pete Rose from age 39 to 45 Pete had one good year, not what I would call a carrer yer.

Tony Gwynn - From age 38 - 41 had some great averages for his age, but not career years. Also, Tonly was on the doughnut diet.


San Musial - Aside from batting .330 at age 41 he batted .255-.275 from ages 38-42

yanks12025
08-24-2012, 06:03 PM
Jeter is not having a career year. He's not going to have career highs in home-runs, RBI's, hits or average.

schubert1970
08-24-2012, 06:04 PM
Jeff Bagwell has never failed a test for PEDs and was not named in the Mitchell Report. While Bagwell may well have used, let's stick to the facts here and not throw Pujols and Jeter's names into the mix until we have conclusive proof.


I guess with Jeff's bud Ken Caminiti passing away we'll never know.

suave1477
08-24-2012, 06:13 PM
Who else has ever had a career year at almost age 39? I can think of two right off the top of me head....Clemens and Bonds.

Ok I am really confused here. You said and your argument is Jeter is having a career year, am I correct? And in your most recent post you said all those or most of the players have had good years in there late 30's not career years. So if I am assuming correctly your saying thatJeter having a career year at this age unlike other players who have managed at one point in there late 30's to have good years implicates more so that Jeter may have taken some type of PED? If this is correct and I am understanding everything you are saying.

You are compltely wrong. If this is not your argument my further protest I apologize for ahead of time. I just checked Jeters stats and by the way he is not having a career year. If you look at his stats he is on pace to have a normal Jeter year. So where does this career year come from?

Jeter this year
Hits 169 - He has hit over 200, 7 years previously
BA. 324 - He has batted that or more 5 years previously
Doubles 27 - He has batted over 30, 8 years previously
Home Runs 13 - He has batted over that 8 years previously

Am I missing something? To where he is having a career year when he has done better in the past?
And even though he still has some time left to add to his stats he is on pace to either matching them or falling a drop short. I dont see him all of a sudden doing something amazing with 38 games to go.

schubert1970
08-24-2012, 06:17 PM
Jeff Bagwell has never failed a test for PEDs and was not named in the Mitchell Report. While Bagwell may well have used, let's stick to the facts here and not throw Pujols and Jeter's names into the mix until we have conclusive proof.


This is conclusive enough for me.

schubert1970
08-24-2012, 06:24 PM
Ok I am really confused here. You said and your argument is Jeter is having a career year, am I correct? And in your most recent post you said all those or most of the players have had good years in there late 30's not career years. So if I am assuming correctly your saying thatJeter having a career year at this age unlike other players who have managed at one point in there late 30's to have good years implicates more so that Jeter may have taken some type of PED? If this is correct and I am understanding everything you are saying.

You are compltely wrong. If this is not your argument my further protest I apologize for ahead of time. I just checked Jeters stats and by the way he is not having a career year. If you look at his stats he is on pace to have a normal Jeter year. So where does this career year come from?

Jeter this year
Hits 169 - He has hit over 200, 7 years previously
BA. 324 - He has batted that or more 5 years previously
Doubles 27 - He has batted over 30, 8 years previously
Home Runs 13 - He has batted over that 8 years previously

Am I missing something? To where he is having a career year when he has done better in the past?
And even though he still has some time left to add to his stats he is on pace to either matching them or falling a drop short. I dont see him all of a sudden doing something amazing with 38 games to go.

He hasn't led the league in hits since 1999. I'd say to do it this year at his age is interesting.

yanks12025
08-24-2012, 06:27 PM
Here's some Pete Rose evidence.

schubert1970
08-24-2012, 06:34 PM
Here's some Pete Rose evidence.

Thanks, and here's some Jeter evidence for you too.

gorilla777
08-24-2012, 06:50 PM
George Brett - Age 38 .255 Age 39 .285 Age 40 .266

Hank Aaron - Age 39 he had a great year, not a career year. Age 38, 40, 41 he batted .234 to .265

Paul Molitor - He did have a career year at ages 37 and 39

Mike Schmidt - Age 38 & 39 batted .242 and .203

Pete Rose from age 39 to 45 Pete had one good year, not what I would call a carrer yer.

Tony Gwynn - From age 38 - 41 had some great averages for his age, but not career years. Also, Tonly was on the doughnut diet.


San Musial - Aside from batting .330 at age 41 he batted .255-.275 from ages 38-42

Seems there is quite a bit omitted from this -

Tony Gwynn:
age 37 .372
age 38 .321
age 39 .338
age 40 .323
age 41 .324

And fat as he was, that should be impossible at those ages.

Paul Molitor:
age 36 .332
age 37 .341
age 38 .270
age 39 .341
age 40 .305

He was always injury prone, so suddenly playing the majority of games at a high level late in his career means you should question him too, correct?

Pete Rose:
age 37 .302
age 38 .331
age 39 average lower, had 64 RBIs
age 40 .331

I like Pete and not much to say about him that hasn't already been said.

Hank Aaron:
age 37 .327 47 HRs 118 RBIs
age 38 .265 34 HRs 77 RBIs
age 39 .301 40 HRs 96 RBIs

His 162 gm avg is 37 and 113

George Brett:
age 37 .329 batting title

career .305 hitter

Mike Schmidt:
age 36 MVP year, .290 37 HRs 119 RBIs
age 37 .293 35 HRs 113 RBIs
the last year and a half he was dealing with injuries

Stan Musial:
hit .330 at age 41
averaged about .345 during ages 36 and 37
His later numbers pale mostly because he put the bar so high.

Warren Spahn:
age 37 22-11 3.07 era
age 38 21-15 2.96 era
age 39 21-10 3.50 era
age 40 21-13 3.02 era
age 41 18-14 3.04 era
age 42 23-7 2.60 era

Maybe just a freak of nature, but purely amazing numbers

chakes89
08-24-2012, 06:53 PM
Thanks, and here's some Jeter evidence for you too.
Really?

Comparing an 18-19 year old kid fresh out of high school to a 34 year old professional athlete with almost 2 decades worth of elite training, nutrition and conditioning is hardly a fair or accurate comparison of anything

gorilla777
08-24-2012, 06:54 PM
It would probably be more on point to simply say that the Jeter comment was obviously unsubstantiated and flippant to put out there in the first place.

Jags Fan Dan
08-24-2012, 06:55 PM
I'm definitely not ready to say I'm suspicios of Jeter. Guys stay in better shape in this era and Jeter loves the game enough to work at it. While I don't like the Yankees, I respect that.

schubert1970
08-24-2012, 07:03 PM
Really?

Comparing an 18-19 year old kid fresh out of high school to a 34 year old professional athlete with almost 2 decades worth of elite training, nutrition and conditioning is hardly a fair or accurate comparison of anything

Where have we heard this before......

schubert1970
08-24-2012, 07:09 PM
Seems there is quite a bit omitted from this -

Tony Gwynn:
age 37 .372
age 38 .321
age 39 .338
age 40 .323
age 41 .324

And fat as he was, that should be impossible at those ages.

Paul Molitor:
age 36 .332
age 37 .341
age 38 .270
age 39 .341
age 40 .305

He was always injury prone, so suddenly playing the majority of games at a high level late in his career means you should question him too, correct?

Pete Rose:
age 37 .302
age 38 .331
age 39 average lower, had 64 RBIs
age 40 .331

I like Pete and not much to say about him that hasn't already been said.

Hank Aaron:
age 37 .327 47 HRs 118 RBIs
age 38 .265 34 HRs 77 RBIs
age 39 .301 40 HRs 96 RBIs

His 162 gm avg is 37 and 113

George Brett:
age 37 .329 batting title

career .305 hitter

Mike Schmidt:
age 36 MVP year, .290 37 HRs 119 RBIs
age 37 .293 35 HRs 113 RBIs
the last year and a half he was dealing with injuries

Stan Musial:
hit .330 at age 41
averaged about .345 during ages 36 and 37
His later numbers pale mostly because he put the bar so high.

Warren Spahn:
age 37 22-11 3.07 era
age 38 21-15 2.96 era
age 39 21-10 3.50 era
age 40 21-13 3.02 era
age 41 18-14 3.04 era
age 42 23-7 2.60 era

Maybe just a freak of nature, but purely amazing numbers

Funny thing, last I looked Jeter was 38 and those were the stats I looked at 38 and older. You picked younger years to fit your paradigm. But thanks for the informative info.

yanks12025
08-24-2012, 07:22 PM
Funny thing, last I looked Jeter was 38 and those were the stats I looked at 38 and older. You picked younger years to fit your paradigm. But thanks for the informative info.

Then just look at the numbers from 38 and older and they have better years then some of the previous years.

gorilla777
08-24-2012, 07:27 PM
Funny thing, last I looked Jeter was 38 and those were the stats I looked at 38 and older. You picked younger years to fit your paradigm. But thanks for the informative info.

Yes, it was funny as i had mentioned looking at players stats covering late 30s and early 40s. And last time I looked, that would include ages 36, 37, etc. And my stats include many very good years above those ages as well.
Nice job not including Spahn in your little paradigm...bravo!

schubert1970
08-24-2012, 07:30 PM
Yes, it was funny as i had mentioned looking at players stats covering late 30s and early 40s. And last time I looked, that would include ages 36, 37, etc. And my stats include many very good years above those ages as well.
Nice job not including Spahn in your little paradigm...bravo!

Spahn isn't a position player, just a tad different.

gorilla777
08-24-2012, 07:35 PM
Spahn isn't a position player, just a tad different.

Yes, well just following your lead-in of using Clemens and Bonds as your only guys you could think of in that category. Clemens is a pitcher, Spahn is a pitcher. There is your connection.

schubert1970
08-24-2012, 08:08 PM
Yes, well just following your lead-in of using Clemens and Bonds as your only guys you could think of in that category. Clemens is a pitcher, Spahn is a pitcher. There is your connection.

Wow, one pitcher from a different era to make your case... Why not show Cy Young????

Lol. Please stop it I can't take it anymore.

gorilla777
08-24-2012, 08:27 PM
Good grief pal, you're too much. Come out with a tabloid rag type claim on Jeter and provide zero facts to back it up. Oh, other than some silly pictures...well played.

schubert1970
08-24-2012, 09:16 PM
Good grief pal, you're too much. Come out with a tabloid rag type claim on Jeter and provide zero facts to back it up. Oh, other than some silly pictures...well played.

Thanks grape ape! You made my work day fly! I was just having fun. Some of you folks on here take all this too serious.

gorilla777
08-25-2012, 12:29 AM
Don't take things so seriously and just relax. It should have been apparent I've been busting your chops a bit with this here.

And rather than continuing at all on this thread, you can reach me at bent_714 at yahoo dot com.....I'm betting others prefer that as well!

MSpecht
08-25-2012, 12:10 PM
I took a little time and edited this thread to clean up some spirited discussion (which for the most part is interesting) that had degenerated into some personal attack-type of commentary. Please stick to facts, conclusions, and opinions that are deviod of personal ridicule or name-calling. I still think this thread gas some way to go under the above guidelines.

Thanks....Mike Jackitout7@aol.com

PS- here are two of my opinions just for the record:

1. No player in history has shown the dominance when compared to other players not only of the same age but throughout their career as Roger Clemens did his last 2 or 3 seasons. He was either the most naturally freakish old-timer in the history of sports (and civilization) or he was involved deeply with PEDs

2. There is a difference between Manslaughter and Murder One. The difference is called 'with malace aforethought,' and the penalties (7 years vs death penalty, respectively) reflect that. That being said, Melky Cabrera, based on the whole website fiasco and his admission, should receive a lifetime ban from baseball.


Back to the oriiginal intent of this post, stay away from personal attacks or personal characterizations in order to keep this interesting thread open. Thanks.

trsent
08-26-2012, 12:23 AM
Lance Armstrong claims he was tested over 500 times.

I have been told by both scouts and players PED's help improve your eye sight as well.

A large % of players are still using, there is just to much money in the game. Just because there is testing the system is flawed, cyclist, football players, boxers, olympians are still using.

Yes, Lance Armstrong never failed a test, but ten people are willing to testify against him and they strip him of all his titles because he is tired of the "witch hunt".

You know what I say? I say they are out of line with their attacks of Lance. He was tested, he passed. Catch him and we'll talk, right?


Really?

Comparing an 18-19 year old kid fresh out of high school to a 34 year old professional athlete with almost 2 decades worth of elite training, nutrition and conditioning is hardly a fair or accurate comparison of anything

Bravo. I don't doubt that Barry Bonds and Jeff Bagwell may have had some PED's to grow, your point is 100% on the money. Can't a guy bulk up with hard work and a good diet?


I took a little time and edited this thread to clean up some spirited discussion (which for the most part is interesting) that had degenerated into some personal attack-type of commentary. Please stick to facts, conclusions, and opinions that are deviod of personal ridicule or name-calling. I still think this thread gas some way to go under the above guidelines.

Thanks....Mike Jackitout7@aol.com

PS- here are two of my opinions just for the record:

1. No player in history has shown the dominance when compared to other players not only of the same age but throughout their career as Roger Clemens did his last 2 or 3 seasons. He was either the most naturally freakish old-timer in the history of sports (and civilization) or he was involved deeply with PEDs

2. There is a difference between Manslaughter and Murder One. The difference is called 'with malace aforethought,' and the penalties (7 years vs death penalty, respectively) reflect that. That being said, Melky Cabrera, based on the whole website fiasco and his admission, should receive a lifetime ban from baseball.


Back to the oriiginal intent of this post, stay away from personal attacks or personal characterizations in order to keep this interesting thread open. Thanks.

Now to my view on PED's in society. I always say it, when Mark McGwire and Jose Canseco were becoming superstars everyone knew they were using steroids. No one doubted this. Television announcers mentioned it during games. People discussed it and no one though it was wrong.

Now we go a punish these guys years later because they later became outlawed? Get over it I say, it is part of the history of the game.

I personally don't mind if professional athletes want to take PED's to get bigger and stronger. I think they should be legalized and regulated. Then everyone has the choice if they want to take drugs to risk their lives so they can play a sport and make money.

I was tweeting with Victor Conte recently and he said that they made a deal with a drug dealer to help nail professional athletes. What's wrong with society? You let off a drug dealer who tattles on selling to athletes? Dang, a pusher is a criminal. A drug abuser needs professional help.

tacprc
08-26-2012, 12:25 AM
Fyi, earlier today I read an article in the August 1980 issue of Baseball Magazine titled Baseball's Ageless Superstars that focused on Stargell, McCovey, Willie Horton, Rose, Yastrzemski, Phil Niekro, Tommy John, and Luis Tiant -- so there have always been a few players who remained productive into their late 30's and early 40's.

p.s. I am big Pete Rose fan, and with age and experience I can see parallels between Rose, Armstrong, and the many other athletes (and politicians, etc.) who have been caught cheating, doping, or breaking other rules. They generally lie and obfuscate until the bitter end. I reckon they don't like being singled out for punishment when they figure others have done the same or worse.

tacprc
08-26-2012, 12:44 AM
*** Now we go a punish these guys years later because they later became outlawed? Get over it I say, it is part of the history of the game.

I personally don't mind if professional athletes want to take PED's to get bigger and stronger. I think they should be legalized and regulated. Then everyone has the choice if they want to take drugs to risk their lives so they can play a sport and make money. ***

I well remember the home run derby between Sosa and McGwire and I never heard any broadcaster or reporter say that they were using steroids or HGH. Yes, McGwire was openly using creatine but supposedly that was all.

I absolutely object to players using PED's. It creates an uneven playing field, and no player (much less some young kid just getting started) should be forced to take these substances and jeopardize his health in order to have a professional career. And no player should be forced to compete against a super-human, hyper-agressive athlete on PEDs. Think Lyle Alzado. Plus there is the whole issue of respecting the achievements of record holders and their fans. McGwire screwed Roger Maris and his family; and Barry Bonds royally screwed Hank Aaron.

If any sport permitted PED's, I would boycott it.

cohibasmoker
08-28-2012, 09:36 AM
The other day, I found some old clothes from my High School days in the attic. The waist size was 26 and I could barely get my old shirts on - I must have forgotten that I took steroids because at 58, those clothes don't fit me any more.

When I worked in Atlantic City, there were marathons and athletic events all the time. I specifically remember the "Race Across America" contest. When the contestants crossed the finish line, they were escorted, by a race official, to a bathroom where they were required to submit a urine sample. The race official NEVER left the side of the participant until the urine sample was taken. I believe its the same procedure at the Tour De France.

As for Lance Armstrong, he is the most tested athlete in the history of sports and he has NEVER, I repeat NEVER gotten a positive test for any type of steroid or growth enhancing drug in his system NEVER. As a somewhat reasonable person, I would have to think that;

1) somewhere along the 500 or so tests, there must have been at least a single positive test?
2) if he was "doping" one would think if he was smart enough to beat the tests, he would be smart enough to not tell anyone or at least be smart enough to hide his activities.

I thing he is being tried by the court of public opinion and until a positive test shows up or he admits taking a growth hormone (s) or other enhancement drug (s), I don't care what statements people make, - show me the test (s) results.

Just some thoughts,

Jim

flaa1a@comcast.net

3arod13
08-28-2012, 11:51 AM
I'm sick of people accusing players of using, when there's no solid proof! :)

trsent
08-28-2012, 06:02 PM
The other day, I found some old clothes from my High School days in the attic. The waist size was 26 and I could barely get my old shirts on - I must have forgotten that I took steroids because at 58, those clothes don't fit me any more.

When I worked in Atlantic City, there were marathons and athletic events all the time. I specifically remember the "Race Across America" contest. When the contestants crossed the finish line, they were escorted, by a race official, to a bathroom where they were required to submit a urine sample. The race official NEVER left the side of the participant until the urine sample was taken. I believe its the same procedure at the Tour De France.

As for Lance Armstrong, he is the most tested athlete in the history of sports and he has NEVER, I repeat NEVER gotten a positive test for any type of steroid or growth enhancing drug in his system NEVER. As a somewhat reasonable person, I would have to think that;

1) somewhere along the 500 or so tests, there must have been at least a single positive test?
2) if he was "doping" one would think if he was smart enough to beat the tests, he would be smart enough to not tell anyone or at least be smart enough to hide his activities.

I thing he is being tried by the court of public opinion and until a positive test shows up or he admits taking a growth hormone (s) or other enhancement drug (s), I don't care what statements people make, - show me the test (s) results.

Just some thoughts,

Jim

flaa1a@comcast.net

From one cigar smoker to another, I couldn't have said it any better myself!

tacprc
08-28-2012, 07:52 PM
Lance Armstrong is the most tested athlete in the history of sports and he has NEVER, I repeat NEVER gotten a positive test for any type of steroid or growth enhancing drug in his system NEVER. As a somewhat reasonable person, I would have to think that;

1) somewhere along the 500 or so tests, there must have been at least a single positive test?
2) if he was "doping" one would think if he was smart enough to beat the tests, he would be smart enough to not tell anyone or at least be smart enough to hide his activities.

I thing he is being tried by the court of public opinion and until a positive test shows up or he admits taking a growth hormone (s) or other enhancement drug (s), I don't care what statements people make, - show me the test (s) results.

Jim

Get ready to read the report from USADA. Lance Armstrong used EPO and other drugs in all his races since at least 1998. His only defense is that nearly all his competitors cheated too, and he is certainly right about that. Go to letsrun.com for links to various news stories on this subject.

trsent
08-28-2012, 10:43 PM
Get ready to read the report from USADA. Lance Armstrong used EPO and other drugs in all his races since at least 1998. His only defense is that nearly all his competitors cheated too, and he is certainly right about that. Go to letsrun.com for links to various news stories on this subject.

So if they test you every day and you pass the tests, the United States Anti-Doping Agency can take away your Tour-De-France titles years after because others say he cheated? What gives the USADA authority over titles won in France?

Rick Reilly, one of the best sports writers around today with Bill Simmons, wrote the best article I've found so far:

http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/id/8310275/armstrong-worth-honoring

tacprc
08-29-2012, 06:03 PM
Here's the best article that I've read.

http://www.sportsscientists.com/2012/08/the-armstrong-fallout-thoughts-and.html