Griffey 1994 Jersey– Where's the Nameplate?

[griffeyfan]

I have a question for the Mariners equipment experts out there . . . did the Mariners sew the name on the back of their jerseys directly at anytime without using a nameplate? I have never seen any Griffey jerseys from this era without a nameplate. Although photos are limited from the strike shortened season there are images of both the teal and road jerseys with a nameplate.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1994-KEN-GRIFFEY-JR-GAME-USED-AUTOGRAPHED-HOME-JERSEY-GRIFFEY-SIGNED-LOA-PSA-DNA-/110942638394?pt=US_Autographs&hash=item19d4b2513a

The date tag is also somewhat of a mystery. Other Mariners jerseys have a more computer printer generated style for the numbers while this one appears to be sewn.

What makes things more interesting is the signed certificate by Griffey himself on this one. What are your thoughts?

[sox83cubs84]

The Baseball Card Kid (Mark Murphy) is not a standard GU equipment dealer, but did have a number of Griffey items from his time in Seattle. Still, the lack of NOB plate concerns me, and that style of Russell tag font only appeared on a handful of jerseys in 1994 made specifically for spring training....the standard, regular-season tag font you describe is the normal one.
Without at least a style-match, I'd pass.

Dave Miedema

[griffeyfan]

I agree, Dave. I even researched other Mariners players photos from 1994 and came up empty. All showed a nameplate.

[beef]

Looks like this jersey has made its way to goldin auctions, now with a letter from MEARS stating that griffey ordered jerseys without nameplates. I still cant find a picture from 1994 that is lacking a nameplate.

https://goldinauctions.com/LotDetail.aspx?lotid=608&searchby=0&searchvalue=None&page=0&sortby=0&displayby=2&lotsperpage=25&category=40&seo=1994-Ken-Griffey-Game-Used-and-Autographed-Jersey%2c-Griffey-LOA--and-MEARS-A-10

[trsent]

I can't say anything about the jersey itself, but I can tell you that the original letter which came from Coast-To-Coast was a company that was buddy buddy with Griffey, Jr. and A-Rod during this time period and they bought a lot of stuff right from the players and they did a lot of autograph signings with them during this era.

In fact, playing poker in Las Vegas about ten years ago I introduced myself to Alex Rodriguez and mentioned Coast-To-Coast to him and then he started talking to me about playing professional poker full time because he trusted me since I knew the C-To-C boys.

[beef]

I guess thats part of the confusion Joel, coast to coast handled a lot of griffeys early stuff but there's no hologram system or even picture coa...so my skeptical mind wonders if the jersey or coa had been switched at some point in the last 18 years. I'm still waiting for the griffey experts to verify that he ordered extra jerseys sans nameplate.

[trsent]

I guess thats part of the confusion Joel, coast to coast handled a lot of griffeys early stuff but there's no hologram system or even picture coa...so my skeptical mind wonders if the jersey or coa had been switched at some point in the last 18 years. I'm still waiting for the griffey experts to verify that he ordered extra jerseys sans nameplate.

You could also contact Troy at MEARS and ask how they made that determination.

[sox83cubs84]

It would be interesting to find out what information (if any) MEARS had regarding NOB Plate-less Griffey jerseys. With this anomaly, as good as they were in the era, I'd need more than a C to C LOA to accept this one.

And, Joel, before you suggest I call Troy for the scoop, I've tried to contact him on multiple different matters over the last year. I always get a recording, and the next call he returns will be the first.

Dave Miedema

[trsent]

It would be interesting to find out what information (if any) MEARS had regarding NOB Plate-less Griffey jerseys. With this anomaly, as good as they were in the era, I'd need more than a C to C LOA to accept this one.

And, Joel, before you suggest I call Troy for the scoop, I've tried to contact him on multiple different matters over the last year. I always get a recording, and the next call he returns will be the first.

Dave Miedema

I wasn't going to suggest you call Troy. The guy asked for help and I figured Troy best to help him. I'm pretty sure you and Troy are on separate boats these days :-)

[jdhbraves]

Unraveling this mystery may be difficult but possible with some leg work. If memory serves, back in 1994, in an issue of sports collectors digest, MOS sports had a big ad containing griffey gu equipment from 1994. The jerseys were photographed and had these coa's. If someone has saved those issues from 1994, you will find your answer. I had a road 1994 junior, and mine had a name plate. I will say the signature placement on this one is where it should be for all of the griffey jerseys that came with his coa.

[gingi79]

I've been following this thread with great interest. In 1994, the easiest way to tell the difference between "authentic" and 'replica" store bought jerseys was the nameplate. Only cheap replicas had letters stitched into a jersey and it was a point of pride to have an "authentic jersey". "Real" jerseys was easily deduced by having the players name sewn on to a nameplate and even "authentic" jerseys were reduced to crap without one. (Granted I was 15)

There is no logical baseball reason to exclude the nameplate. It wouldn't lighten the weight of the jersey, allow greater motion or affect Jr positively in any dissernable way. Further, no one on this website or any other I have visited can produce any photos of Jr wearing a non-nameplated jersey.

However, if Nolan Ryan could force a team to supply him with one brand of jersey when seemingly every other player wore another, is it outside the possibility that Jr asked for and wore this jersey? Remember this is the same guy who wore his hat backwards during batting practice for THE FIRST TIME IN BASEBALL HISTORY. He didn't "tow the line" Jr was eccentric at times.

That being said: I wouldn't touch a non-photomatched Griffey any quicker than a non-photomatched Montana, Rice, Gretzky, Jordan etc.

[5kRunner]

Maybe I'm not understanding or missing something.

How can one note on the worksheet that "no nameplate due to Griffey's need for extra jerseys for his marketing purposes" and conclude that this jersey is game worn?

[trsent]

Maybe I'm not understanding or missing something.

How can one note on the worksheet that "no nameplate due to Griffey's need for extra jerseys for his marketing purposes" and conclude that this jersey is game worn?

I said it before, if you care, you should email MEARS. Their email address can be found on their website www.mearsonline.com (http://www.mearsonline.com)

I would assume they would give a better answer than us speculating.

[beef]

I emailed MEARS and have been waiting on a reply, I will post the response when/if one is given

[sox83cubs84]

Just show us a photomatch or even a stylematch...that will go a long way towards solving this.

Dave M.

[KGoldin]

Hello, I am Ken Goldin founder of Goldin Auctions (www.goldinauctions.com (http://www.goldinauctions.com)) I wanted to address the questions Ihave been seeing over this Griffey jersey.

When starting GoldinAuctions and realizing due to our strong player relations background we wouldbe focusing heavily on game used product, I carefully looked at the game usedjersey market and was shocked by a trend I saw. Suddenly, there were 15 or more auction houses that actually issued their own piece of paper as authenticity and provenance for game worn jerseys/uniforms. Had it become too expensive to get them reviewed by experts? Was it impossible to get player verification? Or did each of them actually hire experts who had the public confidence to do this work? I personally thought it was a big conflict of interest for an auctionhouse to also be the one certifying the game use in a product they were selling, and felt that theresimply could not be so many experts out there (plus all of the well knownfederal issues with game used equipment must give one pause as well you would think). So we decided to hold ourselves to a very strict standard when it comes to game used jerseys (as we do all of the product we list) For us to put a jersey as game ‘used’ or ‘worn’ in our auction it had to have some combination of player, team or league certification, signature of player on item specifying it was game worn, or TPA certification (and we chose to go with MEARS as my research showed me they were the most thorough and most well regarded, even if they did also cost the most). Preferably, whenever possible,we want ALL OF THE ABOVE. And, we don’t say‘no returns’ we do offer a refund policy as stated in rules.

Now, with that being said, here are the details on theGriffey jersey.



1. Consignor of the jersey is Mark Murphy. Contacted me regarding the jersey, consigned it to the auction and sent the jersey and the LOA which are posted https://goldinauctions.com/LotDetail.aspx?lotid=608&searchby=3&searchvalue=griffey&page=0&sortby=0&displayby=2&lotsperpage=25&category=1&seo=1994-Ken-Griffey-Game-Used-and-Autographed-Jersey%2c-Griffey-LOA--and-MEARS-A-10 (https://goldinauctions.com/LotDetail.aspx?lotid=608&searchby=3&searchvalue=griffey&page=0&sortby=0&displayby=2&lotsperpage=25&category=1&seo=1994-Ken-Griffey-Game-Used-and-Autographed-Jersey%2c-Griffey-LOA--and-MEARS-A-10)

2. Jersey was then sent to MEARS who certified thejersey with a grade of A-10.

3. Jersey was reviewed by PSA/DNA who certified the autograph.

4. Jersey was placed into the auction.

I read with some surprise that despite the description of the jersey that clearly stated no nameplate wason this jersey, as well as the MEARS cert stating same, that it was an issue. I then read something that concerned my regarding something thinking maybe the cert didn’t go with the jersey. After reading that I faxed an affidavit to be signed by mark Murphy (which was signed) confirming he is the original owner of the jersey, purchased directly from Unique and coast to Coast, and it has always been in his possession and this is the certificate for the jersey. With this in mind, either the jersey is an authentic game worn Ken Griffey jr jersey from the 1994 season, or you want to start a case against Ken Griffey jr for fraud. There really isn’t any negotiating room in between there….and knowing Ken Griffey jr, and the 2 companies that handled it at the time, Coast to Coast and Unique Sports, fraud is not the case. In addition, I subsequently spoke( TODAY) to someone involved with Coast to Coast at the time who confirmed after reviewing the jersey on my site that it was their jersey, and that is a vintage 1994 era Griffey sig, and he only wrote the 24 like that on the jerseys that were game used.



If you want to read a long message, you cansee the next one.

[KGoldin]

For those of you who are under 40, or maybe who haven’t been in the business for over 20 years, my name is Ken Goldin and I have been heavily involved with athlete relations for the past 25 years. I have paid out over $100 million to athletes in my career,with the following small group of players making up at least half of that(DImaggio, Mantle, Mays, Aaron, Ripken, Ryan, Shaq, Gretzky, Reggie Jackson, PeteRose, Barry Bonds and Ken Griffeyjr). From 1998-2002 Scott Boras (the well known baseball agent…if anyone didn’t know the name) contracted out my company at the time goldin sports to handle all contracts for memorabilia and licensing deals for his players, which included names at the time like Arod,Maddux, Bernie Williams, etc). I also have represented Major leaguers as their agent and am still a certified agent by the MLBPA .



I mention this so you can have some insight and understanding on what I am going to say about jerseys, and the Ken Griffey jr jersey in particular. I have had players wear a game jersey in a game that was provided by me, and then give them to me afterthe game for my personal use (often inscribed to me). There was a well publicized incident in 1991 where Brett Hull had his jersey stolen when he was visiting Philadelphia, and my company at the time had a contract with him was contacted by his agent and asked if we could drive one of the jerseys we had waiting for him at a signing to the stadium and he wore that one that night. It was returned to us and auctioned off locally for charity. I have negotiated and written many contracts for players where they have to provide a certain number of game worn jerseys in a season for a marketing deal and have to buy extra from the team, or order their own and bring them to the clubhouse to wear to honor their commitments. I have seen players change jerseys 4 or more times in a single game, especially when a historic event was being achieved. I have personally watched Barry Bonds bring his own jerseys to what was then Pac Bell Park, tag them put his own patch on, and then wear it in a game. I negotiated the first major NFL game used deal in 1994 to acquire all the game used jerseys and footballs for the San Francisco 49ers.

This brings me to Unique Sports and the Ken Griffey jr jersey in this thread. I had Ken Griffey jr signed to an autograph agreement in 1994 (as I had with him since 1989). Iwanted game used items and was told by Ken I would have to go thru Uniquesports. Unique was run by his good friend Frank King. Ken would supply him with game used items, sign them, and sign the certificates. Ken was honorable about doing this and was diligent. They sold good product and it was real. Obviously Ken couldn’t walk out with 30 jerseys in a season and had to supply his own to wear for these purposes. Knowing what I know, I am confident the jersey is as stated: a 1994 game used jersey from Ken Griffey jr, with letter from Ken Griffey jr, as well as MEARS and PSA/DNA. Due to the question raised on the forum however, I am going to do my best to contact Ken as soon as possible regarding this. If I learn anything that leads me to believe that there is a possibility this was not game worn, the item will be pulled. Based on the information I have,including the follow up call I just had with representatives involved with Coast to Coast at the time, It is highly unlikely that will happen.

I know the jersey collectors likes things in neat packages…’all xxx jerseys have nameplates’ or ‘there is no way possible this could everbe tagged this way on a jersey’. Unfortunately, you cannot have that. You can have ‘most of the times’ and ‘almostalways’ . But as someone who has been a living part of the many exceptions to these rules, I know it cannot be as absolute and some of you wish or like to portray. In the case of Griffey and a photo match, unless you have images of all 9 innings of all 111 games Griffey played in 1994, you simply cannot say he ‘never’ wore a non nameplated jersey all season. I was told by a so called expert that a certain Roger Staubach jersey couldn’t be real because of a cut in the sleeves, and the autograph couldn’tbe real because it was too neat, .. ….here is the outcome of that discussion: https://goldinauctions.com/LotDetail.aspx?lotid=750&searchby=0&searchvalue=None&page=0&sortby=0&displayby=2&lotsperpage=25&category=1&seo=The-Finest-Game-Worn-Staubach-Cowboys-Jersey-In-Existence%3a-1977-78-Super-Bowl-Years%2c-MEARS-A-10 (https://goldinauctions.com/LotDetail.aspx?lotid=750&searchby=0&searchvalue=None&page=0&sortby=0&displayby=2&lotsperpage=25&category=1&seo=The-Finest-Game-Worn-Staubach-Cowboys-Jersey-In-Existence%3a-1977-78-Super-Bowl-Years%2c-MEARS-A-10)



I am always available to answer your questions directly at ken@goldinauctions.com (ken@goldinauctions.com)

[dougiedshow]

I have to say, regardless of various opinions about this jersey... I am impressed that you took the time to reply. Many auction houses ignore collectors and stick to their own house letter of authenticity or the TPA. Cleary you listen and are willing to do some leg work for the collectors. I have been watching your auction closely and think it is great that you have PSA or MEARs with every game used or worn item. Good luck with your first auction.

[trsent]

Bravo Kenny, happy to see your posts.

[otismalibu]

Rudy, wherever you are, here's a thread bump for ya.

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=18037&highlight=ken+griffey

[beef]

Ken, thank you for taking the time to respond. I got a similar answer from troy at mears. I, like many others here, have been burned at some point in this hobby. As my personal method I prefer to try to style or photo match a purchase of this magnitude. And there are very limited opportunities to do so on a jersey from 1994, hence my reaching out to collectors with much more knowledge than myself. Again I thank you for your in depth response and i wish you good luck with your auctions. -Ryan

[joelsabi]

Maybe I'm not understanding or missing something.

How can one note on the worksheet that "no nameplate due to Griffey's need for extra jerseys for his marketing purposes" and conclude that this jersey is game worn?

"marketing purposes" means that these no nameplate jerseys were player/agent ordered as opposed to team ordered.

I see this situation similar to the "set 3" Texas Rangers jerseys of Alex Rodriguez and Pudge Rodriguez. There are no common player jerseys to compare tags because there no set three jersey for common players to compare them to. These jerseys were ordered to meet the demand for their game used items.

One thing going for the Griffey jersey is its ties to Coast to Coast as they have a solid reputation. I cannot say there is the same for the comfort level of the dealer of ARod items while he was in Texas. There has been at least one other no nameplate jersey that has come up for sale that I am aware of.
Griffey backs this jersey fully in case latter there is the possibility of looking at videos for every home game from 1994 in the future. It would be a certain redflag without the COA from Coast to Coast, imo or it was "replaced" by an auction house COA, which would destroy the trace of provenance.

As for use, I believe it would be a separate issue based on the examination of the jersey itself.

As said by Ken, not every jersey comes in a neat package. Those types of neat packaged jerseys are out there so think if you can live with the anomaly or wait for 1994 Griffey jersey with a nameplate.

[5kRunner]

"marketing purposes" means that these no nameplate jerseys were player/agent ordered as opposed to team ordered.

I see this situation similar to the "set 3" Texas Rangers jerseys of Alex Rodriguez and Pudge Rodriguez. There are no common player jerseys to compare tags because there no set three jersey for common players to compare them to. These jerseys were ordered to meet the demand for their game used items.

One thing going for the Griffey jersey is its ties to Coast to Coast as they have a solid reputation. I cannot say there is the same for the comfort level of the dealer of ARod items while he was in Texas. There has been at least one other no nameplate jersey that has come up for sale that I am aware of.
Griffey backs this jersey fully in case latter there is the possibility of looking at videos for every home game from 1994 in the future. It would be a certain redflag without the COA from Coast to Coast, imo or it was "replaced" by an auction house COA, which would destroy the trace of provenance.

As for use, I believe it would be a separate issue based on the examination of the jersey itself.

As said by Ken, not every jersey comes in a neat package. Those types of neat packaged jerseys are out there so think if you can live with the anomaly or wait for 1994 Griffey jersey with a nameplate.

See, in my head, I was thinking "marketing purposes" meant extra jerseys to wear at events/appearances or autographed jerseys for the local childrens hospital auction, etc. Guess I wasn't thinking about marketing of game used items. I think the term is vague and without a clear definition is open to interpretation.

I appreciate Mr. Goldin's response. He seems like a stand up guy and wants to confirm the jersey is what its claimed to be. That's pretty rare. Thank you, Mr. Goldin.

[joelsabi]

See, in my head, I was thinking "marketing purposes" meant extra jerseys to wear at events/appearances or autographed jerseys for the local childrens hospital auction, etc. Guess I wasn't thinking about marketing of game used items. I think the term is vague and without a clear definition is open to interpretation.



True. I just wanted as general definition for the term to fit the possibility of being used in a game or for promotional purposes.

I dont have time right now but curious what autographed Griffey jersey looked like from 1994. Location of autograph and whether nameplate or no nameplate.

[trsent]

"marketing purposes" means that these no nameplate jerseys were player/agent ordered as opposed to team ordered.

I believe "marketing purposes" means whatever the seller wants it to mean. There is no set in stone definition.

[joelsabi]

I believe "marketing purposes" means whatever the seller wants it to mean. There is no set in stone definition.

Fair enough.

The main point is that Mears was able to get this "marketing purposes"comment from King to verify that the jersey came from Unique Sports. I think this was a great service to Mark (the original buyer, who is know well for selling some nice Griffey item) what Mears and the auction house did for him to verify its provenance. The lack of third party authentication and the anomaly may have been the reason there was no interest when it was listed on EBay.