Ethical question

[cjw]

Ok folks, I am new here and already have a dilemma. I sold a 1970's NFL jersey to a well known and reputable dealer a few years ago, and when I sold it to him it was in unused, mint shape. I just found that it was listed in a past auction (picked up an old catalogue) and it was sold with lots of repairs and wear. I am certain that it was the same jersey as due to several points mentioned in the auction. This item was obviosly doctored to appear as game worn to increase the value.

What do I do? Out the auctioneer here or forget it and treat it as a lesson learned?

Thanks

[jdr3]

Re: Ethical question

Out them!

[earlywynnfan]

Re: Ethical question

I say out them, too. Not because I like to bash people, but because I would want to know next time i deal with that particular dealer. The way I look at it, would I be able to sleep at night knowing others got burned when I could have stopped it?

I would suggest that you be very detail-oriented in the post, though. Provide the facts and your beliefs, but let the readers draw their own conclusions.

Ken

[gwh11]

Re: Ethical question

Just to clarify here: Are the dealer and the auctioneer one and the same? I think it's helpful for the hobby to be alerted to doctored jerseys. Do you happen to have a photo of the jersey before you sold it?

[cjw]

Re: Ethical question

Sadly, I don't have any pics of the jersey in the original condition. I am 100% sure of the forgery however. I found it in a used clothing store, brought it to a major collectables show, put it up a friend's table and this dealer/acutioneer bought it immediately. My friend (also a part-time dealer) would vouch on the state of the item originally. I am hesitant to share details as this dealer/acutioneer is active on this site, and I am a newbie.

[JimCaravello]

Re: Ethical question

CJW - can you contact them first to discuss the item to ensure that what you are saying is accurate? It may be best to do that first before you post more info on the Forum about this........Jim

[cjw]

Re: Ethical question

Thanks Jim...good idea. I will do that. I am not trying to raise eyebrows or stir up muck...this is just something that has come up and has caused me some concern. It has me looking at other pieces in my colection that I have purchased from this dealer and others.

[Eric]

Re: Ethical question

Also, how can you be sure it's the same jersey? This is definitely a fascinating story, and one which should be completely explored before naming names.

If this is what you think it is, people should know. But you have have your facts first. Keep at it, get your answers, and let us know.
Eric

[ChrisCavalier]

Re: Ethical question

Ok folks, I am new here and already have a dilemma. I sold a 1970's NFL jersey to a well known and reputable dealer a few years ago, and when I sold it to him it was in unused, mint shape. I just found that it was listed in a past auction (picked up an old catalogue) and it was sold with lots of repairs and wear. I am certain that it was the same jersey as due to several points mentioned in the auction. This item was obviosly doctored to appear as game worn to increase the value.

What do I do? Out the auctioneer here or forget it and treat it as a lesson learned?

Thanks

Hello Chris,

Thank you for asking this question before making any statements about the other party. Let me offer you a couple of things to consider:

For of all, this site exists, among other things, to help protect the collecting community from some of the dangers that exist in the market. In that regard, it would certainly help collectors to be aware of potential forgeries, etc.

However, please note that any accusations of forgery are very serious and should only be done in a responsible manner. I agree with others who have posted on this thread which recommend contacting the seller first to see what they have to say as well as verify the accuracy of your assumptions. If at that point you are convinced, it would certainly help other collectors to inform them about it.

Lastly, just to make sure you are clear regarding the poster's responsibility, please note the following disclaimer:

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=100

Good luck with your due diligence and please keep us posted.

Sincerely,
Christopher Cavalier
CEO - Game Used Universe

[CollectGU]

Re: Ethical question

If you are sure that it is the same jersey and that the auction house/dealer bought it directly from you, then I think that you should lay all the facts out, just the facts, and let the forum readers come to their own conclusions. If you call the dealer, I'm sure he will immediately spin it and dissuade you from posting here......

Dave

[sportscentury]

Re: Ethical question

If you are sure that it is the same jersey and that the auction house/dealer bought it directly from you, then I think that you should lay all the facts out, just the facts, and let the forum readers come to their own conclusions. If you call the dealer, I'm sure he will immediately spin it and dissuade you from posting here......

Dave

I agree. While I think it is important to contact the seller in order to explore the situation and collect more information before sharing the person's name/business here on the forum, I don't think it's at all likely that a seller/dealer is going to reply by saying that he manufactured the use and is fraudulently representing the jersey (and he certainly isn't going to encourage you to expose the situation on a public forum). I'm not sure I've ever heard of such a thing, in fact. With this said, this site is owned and operated by Chris Cavalier and it is important that you follow the rules of the forum/site, as overseen by Chirs, even if you may not fully concur with all of the rules. So far, I think you've handled this situation in a very responsible manner ... and there are several of us who are anxiously awaiting more information.

Best of luck and welcome to the forum,
Reid

[ChrisCavalier]

Re: Ethical question

it is important that you follow the rules of the forum/site, as overseen by Chirs, even if you may not fully concur with all of the rules.

While I certainly don't want to get into another discussion about the purpose of the forum rules, I simply wanted to let those who are new to the site know that the rules were created to make sure all posts are done in a responsible manner and that seller reputations are not damaged by unproven speculation. If someone has tried to defraud another, and the proof can be provided, it would certainly help others to be made aware of that situation. However, we aren't the type of site that allows people to post irresponsibly based on pure conjecture.

In addition to trying to do the right thing, I personally believe the adherence to these rules has allowed this site to gain further credibility in the collecting community at large. We continue to grow dramatically as a community and I believe the fact that members post responsibly has helped to make that happen.

Once again, I do not want to get into a discussion about the rules. I just wanted to let our members know they have a definitive purpose and were not created arbitrarily.

Sincerely,
Christopher Cavalier
CEO - Game Used Universe

[otismalibu]

Re: Ethical question

If you are sure that it is the same jersey and that the auction house/dealer bought it directly from you, then I think that you should lay all the facts out, just the facts, and let the forum readers come to their own conclusions. If you call the dealer, I'm sure he will immediately spin it and dissuade you from posting here......

Dave

I agree!

And let us know what kind of compensation you've been offered for your silence

[cjw]

Re: Ethical question

Thank you Chris and all other members of the discussion board for your feedback and insight. I look forward to sharing positive hobby stories and info in the near future!

I feel it would be best to speak to the dealer/auctioneer face-to-face about this issue and will have the chance in early Nov. at the International Sports Collectables Show in Toronto. There is no reason to believe that he will admit any culpability in the issue but I would like to have him answer my questions in person.

After this meeting (assuming it happens) I would be pleased to share the details with the board in a fullsome, and professional manner. I want to stress that I have no desire to sully anyone's good name.

Thanks again

[ChrisCavalier]

Re: Ethical question

Thank you Chris and all other members of the discussion board for your feedback and insight. I look forward to sharing positive hobby stories and info in the near future!

I feel it would be best to speak to the dealer/auctioneer face-to-face about this issue and will have the chance in early Nov. at the International Sports Collectables Show in Toronto. There is no reason to believe that he will admit any culpability in the issue but I would like to have him answer my questions in person.

After this meeting (assuming it happens) I would be pleased to share the details with the board in a fullsome, and professional manner. I want to stress that I have no desire to sully anyone's good name.

Thanks again

Thank you very much for handling this situation in such a professional and responsible manner. We are glad to have you aboard and I hope this site, and its members, prove helpful to you with your collecting needs.

Sincerely,
Chris