Alex Rodriguez Home Run Bat Error?

[schubert1970]

The Baseball-Reference.com states that AROD’s home run on June 3, 2012 was his 638th career home run.

638 2012-06-03 NYY @ DET Justin Verlander

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/event_hr.cgi?id=rodrial01&t=b

Here is a bat that is MLB Authenticated from that date but AROD signed it as home run #639 and then John Taube and PSA/DNA put the same information in their LOA:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ALEX-RODRIGUEZ-SIGNED-GAME-USED-HOMERUN-BAT-639-VS-VERLANDER-YANKEES-TIGERS-PSA-/251161888390?forcev4exp=true&forceRpt=true

Am I missing something here or did AROD sign the wrong career home run and then PSA failed to research the bat properly to make a correction?

[joelsabi]

The Baseball-Reference.com states that AROD’s home run on June 3, 2012 was his 638th career home run.

638 2012-06-03 NYY @ DET Justin Verlander

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/event_hr.cgi?id=rodrial01&t=b

Here is a bat that is MLB Authenticated from that date but AROD signed it as home run #639 and then John Taube and PSA/DNA put the same information in their LOA:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ALEX-RODRIGUEZ-SIGNED-GAME-USED-HOMERUN-BAT-639-VS-VERLANDER-YANKEES-TIGERS-PSA-/251161888390?forcev4exp=true&forceRpt=true

Am I missing something here or did AROD sign the wrong career home run and then PSA failed to research the bat properly to make a correction?

mlb doesnt mention the career hr # and psa probably assumed that the inscription was correct. seems like something they should have caught.

[joelsabi]

Not sure about the tidbit thing you mention. But I think your initial response was underwhelming. Oh well, they should have caught this, ho humm.


Once again the player can't get the inception correct for which I'm sure he was paid several thpusand for and the company selling the loa just let's it go. What the heck are we all paying for. This is just an overall problem with the hobby in general. Everyone makes a buck and the buyer gets screwed. I just thought this was a bigger deal but look at the people on this forum more concerned about egraphs and othe stupid non game used stuff. I thinks vet the past year you can tell this forum has reach about as low as it can go when it comes to research and good solid game used information.

i contacted the dealer about it and it is getting taken care of. if this is underwhelming then this is underwhelming.

it was an honest mistake that was caught early, is correctable and doesn't affect its authenticity. it was the bat used to hit a hr against verlander on that date.

i understand that we should accept nothing but the best from a dealer and third party authenticator. fortunately this was caught early on before someone bought it.

[joelsabi]

If you knew this a week ago, why not tell us or did I miss your post?
Also, why is the bat still listed on ebay woth the incorrect information? Seems odd to not even take it down or change the description.

I contacted the concerned party. IMO, the errant inscription was a honest mistake. The bat was pulled last Wednesday.

From your posted link, it was surprisingly relisted. The bat was pulled this morning.


As we all know, the inscription on a bat does not assist in the authenticity of the bat. The bat was authenticated by MLB to be a home run bat against Verlander. Unfortunately, the incorrect career hr # was inscribed onto the bat. However, the errant inscription doesn’t change the fact that it is an actual home run bat.

Now because of this honest mistake that could be corrected, I have to read that this mistake is part of what is wrong with the hobby and that the buyer of this bat got screwed even though this bat has not been sold to anyone. This is exactly the kind of hyperbole that I was trying to avoid before giving the seller a chance to make a correction for a honest mistake. I hope this explains why I did not post it here first.

I do not see anything more that I can add to this thread that is constructive until the inscription is fixed.

[joelsabi]

Bill,

When I originally posted I did not click your link.. I thought I knew what listing your were referring to and responded.

You are entitle to your opinion. I was just answering your questions.

thanks

have a nice weekend

[shafrancollectibles.com]

Taking away the back and forth above, I think the question should revolve around what happens with the bat now - does AROD just amend his 9 to an 8 to make it correct? Why did the bat get authenticated to the wrong HR number when a simple google search would have found the accurate information?

[joelsabi]

Taking away the back and forth above, I think the question should revolve around what happens with the bat now - does AROD just amend his 9 to an 8 to make it correct? Why did the bat get authenticated to the wrong HR number when a simple google search would have found the accurate information?

Sorry about the back and forth.
Good questions. Probably nothing happens until the Yankees are out of playoff.

We have seen inscription removed and then redone for ARod on two occassions so maybe this will happen for this bat.

I think it was an honest mistake from the inscription and then PSA assumed that the inscription was correct and didn't verify the number. The authentication by PSA was for the bat and not the autograph and inscription. I agree, PSA should verify the inscription for consistency. This is probably the first or rare example of an error of an inscription that could be resubmitted to PSA. It would interesting to see how they handle it.

[yankees506]

Where? Did I miss it?

For such an avid arod hater, you sure start a lot of threads about the man. :mad:

[metsbats]

I'm not seeing the value add of chastising Joel on this mis-inscribed Arod homerun bat. It's counter productive and may deter anyone else in the future from questioning items on the forum for fear of the illusion of "not completely following thru". Seems like he did everything to the best of his ability and it not his fault this bat was relisted.

Perhaps all this negative energy can be used to reach out to Arod and his representives or more realistically John Taube (who is typically open to questions) to help rectify the situation.

David

[3arod13]

I'm not seeing the value add of chastising Joel on this mis-inscribed Arod homerun bat. It's counter productive and may deter anyone else in the future from questioning items on the forum for fear of the illusion of "not completely following thru". Seems like he did everything to the best of his ability and it not his fault this bat was relisted.

Perhaps all this negative energy can be used to reach out to Arod and his representives or more realistically John Taube (who is typically open to questions) to help rectify the situation.

David

+1

I also don't appreciate Bill's comment, "Wish there was a photo of him holding this bat so it has the appearance of being "real" Maybe Toni can help with that"

I already posted the bat was photomatched to games and provided proof.

This was a direct attack against me on my recent Arod bat, and I would appreciate comments directed at me, in reference to arod, stop!

Thanks!

[metsbats]

Tony ( or anyone else) do you have a photo match of this bat. If so please contact me at metsbats86@aol.com

I spoke to John Taube just now who believes there was a photo match and if we can get it to him he can pursue correcting this bat and related documentation.

Thanks
-David

[3arod13]

Tony ( or anyone else) do you have a photo match of this bat. If so please contact me at metsbats86@aol.com

I spoke to John Taube just now who believes there was a photo match and if we can get it to him he can pursue correcting this bat and related documentation.

Thanks
-David

I will check the game out on MLB.COM this afternoon and let you know.

[metsbats]

Tony,

Arod's 639th home run was hit in Atlanta on 6/12. That homerun tied Arod with Lou Gehrig with 23 grand slams.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/13/sports/baseball/rodriguez-matches-gehrig-with-23-grand-slams-in-yanks-win-over-braves.html?_r=0

[3arod13]

Here are a few pics of Arod's at bat in the 1st (2 pics) and 3rd innings. First pic is from the 1st inning. Other two pics are from the 3rd inning, in which he hit HR #638. Without the bat in my hand to look better, it's difficult to tell my these pics.

[3arod13]

Sorry, meant 1st pic (1st inning); next two pics (3rd inning)

[3arod13]

Will post pics from #639 on 12 June 2012 in a few minutes.

[metsbats]

I took photos of the auction bat and lined it up with Tony's screen shots from each of Arod's at bats.

This does not look like the same bat. What do you all think?

[yanks12025]

Could this have been a mlb hologram mess up?? Because on the hologram they did put "Used to hit HR".

[GoTigers]

Pretty sure its not the same bat.. Maybe the MLB did mess up and omitt "BP"?

[3arod13]

I took photos of the auction bat and lined it up with Tony's screen shots from each of Arod's at bats.

This does not look like the same bat. What do you all think?

The first pic was from the 1st inning, so I wouldn't count that bat. The 2nd and 3rd pics were from the 3rd innning.

While watching each movement of the bat, I could consistenlty see this white spot on the bat as he swung the bat around.

Key for me would be to see if this bat has the same white spot.

[3arod13]

Ok, this is my last post on this bat. Here are three more shots I took. The two marks with the RED arrows are the most consistent identifiable marks that I see as arod swings the bat. I think this should help in matching the bat. I also found the other with many marks. Hope this helps.

[metsbats]

Here are barrel shots from the auction bat.

I don't see the white spot.

[3arod13]

Two more pics from different angles than the previous ones I post. Without questions, the white spot is key to photomatching the bat.

[3arod13]

Here is what I believe happened. The bat in the auction is the bat that was to be used by arod to hit the HR. Viewing the game, the bat used to hit the HR has a bright white spot on it, where the bat in the auction doesn't.

So I decided to then check Arod's next two at bats (5th inning and 9th inning). As you can clearly see, he used the HR bat in both the 5th and 9th innings also. You can clearly see the bright white spot in the same area of the bat.

From my understanding, once the HR occurs, the bat is then immedately supposed to collected by MLB authenticators to ensure it's authenticity.

Well, if Arod used the same bat in the next two innings, I believe that wrong bat was given to MLB authenticators as the HR bat.

First picture is 3rd inning; Second is 5th inning; Third is 9th inning.

What do you think?

[yanks12025]

I agree with you tony.

[3arod13]

I would like to thank Bill (schubert1970) for starting this thread and saving someone from potentally spending a lot of money for a bad bat. Thanks!

[3arod13]

In all three pics, you can also see the ball mark underneatch the bright white spot. So there's no question all three pics from different innings are the same bat.

[yanks12025]

I wonder who's more at fault, A-rod or the person doing the mlb hologram?

[3arod13]

I wonder who's more at fault, A-rod or the person doing the mlb hologram?

I'm glad you asked this question. I think all players should ensure what they are inscribing and signing, is what they should know for a fact it is. However, in my research and personal experience, it's the people around the player who should ensure these situations don't occur.

Think about this particular bat. Inscribed HR#639. That HR was a significant HR, being that it was his All Time Grand Slam HR. Do you think Arod realized that? No! Otherwise, he wouldn't have written HR #639. Bat was probably put in front of Arod; he was told what to inscribe it; and he did, because he trusts those around him.

Not making accuses for Arod. Just sick that people continously thinking Arod is the one who does this intentially. Believe me, when he found out about the Rawlings bat, he did all he could do to make it right.

[suave1477]

I'm glad you asked this question. I think all players should ensure what they are inscribing and signing, is what they should know for a fact it is. However, in my research and personal experience, it's the people around the player who should ensure these situations don't occur.

Think about this particular bat. Inscribed HR#639. That HR was a significant HR, being that it was his All Time Grand Slam HR. Do you think Arod realized that? No! Otherwise, he wouldn't have written HR #639. Bat was probably put in front of Arod; he was told what to inscribe it; and he did, because he trusts those around him.

Not making accuses for Arod. Just sick that people continously thinking Arod is the one who does this intentially. Believe me, when he found out about the Rawlings bat, he did all he could do to make it right.

I do agree with Tony and it works both ways.

Sometimes a player will just write whatever and some are very anal and will make sure themselves. I have had brought bats to players and told them its one of there game used and they responded with an "Oh Yeah? Let me check it out and I'll let you know if I used" some players are very particular. So when it comes to these players such as an AROD who is selling his game used stuff a lot of times they dont keep track of whats what and most likely they could care less too, they let there handlers do that and there handlers probably put stuff in front of him and tell him fo what occassion to sign for. Can you blame AROD sure you can, but lets all be realistic, he is human and he is busy and I am sure keeping track of a game used bat as opposed to closing on million dollar investment deals is not a high priority on his list. And I cant blame him, if it was me in the same position I would want to be able to offer my fans a piece of the game that came from my hands or back but at the same time I just dont have time for it and have bigger and better things to worry about.

This is just my opinion!!

[3arod13]

I do agree with Tony and it works both ways.

Sometimes a player will just write whatever and some are very anal and will make sure themselves. I have had brought bats to players and told them its one of there game used and they responded with an "Oh Yeah? Let me check it out and I'll let you know if I used" some players are very particular. So when it comes to these players such as an AROD who is selling his game used stuff a lot of times they dont keep track of whats what and most likely they could care less too, they let there handlers do that and there handlers probably put stuff in front of him and tell him fo what occassion to sign for. Can you blame AROD sure you can, but lets all be realistic, he is human and he is busy and I am sure keeping track of a game used bat as opposed to closing on million dollar investment deals is not a high priority on his list. And I cant blame him, if it was me in the same position I would want to be able to offer my fans a piece of the game that came from my hands or back but at the same time I just dont have time for it and have bigger and better things to worry about.

This is just my opinion!!

After all I've been through, and what I've learned in all the dealings and research I've done over the past few years. I can honestly say, if it's not photomatched, I'm not buying it.

[shafrancollectibles.com]

Think about this particular bat. Inscribed HR#639. That HR was a significant HR, being that it was his All Time Grand Slam HR. Do you think Arod realized that? No! Otherwise, he wouldn't have written HR #639. Bat was probably put in front of Arod; he was told what to inscribe it; and he did, because he trusts those around him.

The problem, initially, with this bat was the "#639" - the HR he was referencing "vs. Detroit" was actually #638. Now it looks like it goes deeper than that.

[yanks12025]

Guys any chance the mlb hologram could be messed up and the bat actually maybe the one from homerun 639?

[yanks12025]

Guys any chance the mlb hologram could be messed up and the bat actually maybe the one from homerun 639?

Nevermind, the holograms around the one on this bat also date from June 3rd.

[3arod13]

Here is a pic of the auction bat (left) and the Grand Slam Bat (right) Career #639. As you can see, both have a large ball mark above "Powerized" with the auction bat ball mark being a little right above "powerized" and the Grand Slam Bat being dead center over "powerized."

No question the auction bat could be #639.

[shafrancollectibles.com]

Those marks may be similar, but clearly not in the same spot.

[3arod13]

Well, I guess it's pretty clear that the auction bat isn't from either the Career HR #638 or #639 games.

This whole situation frustates me. Especially considering with all the resources we have available to us today.

When I first joined this forum many years ago, this is what this forum was all about. To challenge and keep this hobby as safe as possible from this type of thing. There were many knowledgeable people in this forum, who knew their stuff; were hardcore researchers; and kept many people on their toes from tying to scam others. Unfortunately, many have left and that has changed somewhat.

In the end, Bill identified a problem; brought it to the forum; resulting in and ensuring some collector won't buy this erronious bat. Thanks for that Bill!

Wish you all the best!

[joelsabi]

I think there is a level of complacency that goes along with items that are authenticated by MLB Authenticated. What we have discovered is that the process is not foolproof and that there can be chain of custody issue with game equipment that is collected after the game. If it is not confiscated when an item is authenticated it is possible to make errors. This example proves that a mistake is possible.


If the item is taken out of play, like a baseball or a cracked bat, it is more likely to have a good chain of custody than the other two scenarios below:

1) If a specific item such as a bat or a jersey is collected after the game for a specific achievement, it is possible that an error will occur and must be verified. Such items I would hold the Authenticator more responsible than the Player, as the Authenticator was “a witness” to the game use for a specific event.

2) If the item is Player Collected by MLB Authenticated, there is also an urgency to verify through photomatching. Such items, I would hold the Player entirely responsible.

[Bondsgloves]

Just think how difficult it will be to photomatch Alex's 2012 playoff bats, there will be no ball marks on them at all.:D

[3arod13]

Just think how difficult it will be to photomatch Alex's 2012 playoff bats, there will be no ball marks on them at all.:D

Man! This thread was flowing so smoothly, until now. Guess there is a comedy everywhere. By the way, when will Barry Bonds be getting into the Hall of Fame? :D

On the serious side, it amazes me that someone with Arod's experience and years in the league, would have a problem with overthinking too much. He looks so awkward at the plate. Hope he breaks out of it soon!

[Bondsgloves]

It was a joke.. no hard feelings or il will intended.

Sure he will, he will be inducted with Arod.:rolleyes:

I will meet up with you at the induction ceremony;)

[3arod13]

It was a joke.. no hard feelings or il will intended.

Sure he will, he will be inducted with Arod.:rolleyes:

I will meet up with you at the induction ceremony;)

Didn't it that way...was kidding myself. I actually expected you to come back with, "the same time Arod does....NEVER! ;)

[3arod13]

Didn't it that way...was kidding myself. I actually expected you to come back with, "the same time Arod does....NEVER! ;)

Sorry, meant "didn't take it that way."

[metsbats]

Just got an update from John Taube. After seeing these shots from the 6/3 Detroit game and comparisions with the auction bat he agrees that that the auction bat is not the homerun bat from that game.

Futhermore the fact that ARod mistakenly signed it as Hr 639 against Detroit when he hit no. 639 against Altanta on 6/12 adds additional conflict.

John indicated that he will pull the PSA letters from the auction bat and he will be meeting with the 13AlexRodriquez folks in a couple of weeks and will attempt to sort the bats out.

He will keep us posted on what happens.

[3arod13]

Just got an update from John Taube. After seeing these shots from the 6/3 Detroit game and comparisions with the auction bat he agrees that that the auction bat is not the homerun bat from that game.

Futhermore the fact that ARod mistakenly signed it as Hr 639 against Detroit when he hit no. 639 against Altanta on 6/12 adds additional conflict.

John indicated that he will pull the PSA letters from the auction bat and will be meeting with the 13AlexRodriquez folks in a couple of weeks and will attempt to sort the bats out.

He will keep us posted on what happens.

Dave, great work!

[joelsabi]

Just got an update from John Taube. After seeing these shots from the 6/3 Detroit game and comparisions with the auction bat he agrees that that the auction bat is not the homerun bat from that game.

Futhermore the fact that ARod mistakenly signed it as Hr 639 against Detroit when he hit no. 639 against Altanta on 6/12 adds additional conflict.

John indicated that he will pull the PSA letters from the auction bat and will be meeting with the 13AlexRodriquez folks in a couple of weeks and will attempt to sort the bats out.

He will keep us posted on what happens.


Good news.

Just wondering whether John authenticated a collection of Arod baseball bats when he authenticated the questioned bat. I am asking whether John has authenticated the GS bat also and if yes, what was the inscription.

[metsbats]

Dave, great work!


You did all the great work Tony!

[3arod13]

You did all the great work Tony!

Actually, thanks to Bill for bringing it to this forum. Unfortunate things went south for him.

[suave1477]

Didn't it that way...was kidding myself. I actually expected you to come back with, "the same time Arod does....NEVER! ;)

You are both wrong!! Bonds and AROD will go into the Hall of Fame.................................. When they buy tickets lol lol:D

[3arod13]

Just got an update from John Taube. After seeing these shots from the 6/3 Detroit game and comparisions with the auction bat he agrees that that the auction bat is not the homerun bat from that game.

Futhermore the fact that ARod mistakenly signed it as Hr 639 against Detroit when he hit no. 639 against Altanta on 6/12 adds additional conflict.

John indicated that he will pull the PSA letters from the auction bat and he will be meeting with the 13AlexRodriquez folks in a couple of weeks and will attempt to sort the bats out.

He will keep us posted on what happens.

Any update on this? I'm curious to know what happened/will happen to the bat. Meaning inscription removed, replaced with game used, then resold?

One of the argeements I made with the Rawlings bat was, if it was to be sold, the entire story and history had to be told. I don't want the bat to renter the hobby, with new LOA's attached to it, and it's history not told. It's important to me that the entire story is told, if resold. I don't want someone to buy it, to only find out after the fact it's history. All was agreed.

[MLB~NUT]

Man! This thread was flowing so smoothly, until now. Guess there is a comedy everywhere. By the way, when will Barry Bonds be getting into the Hall of Fame? :D

On the serious side, it amazes me that someone with Arod's experience and years in the league, would have a problem with overthinking too much. He looks so awkward at the plate. Hope he breaks out of it soon!

Sorry couldn't resist, but when will either Bonds or Arod get in the Hall? :D