Help with Whitey Lockman '62 uniform

[ferrisfain41]

On earlier occasions, I asked for help on identifying this jersey as belonging to Lockman. Was not able to show you pix. But now I can.

Goal is to figure out why Lockman is given no 8, which was not the jersey he wore in 1962.
Or did he?
Thanks for any insights, Dave chime in here as an expert, I got this from Dick Dobbins, who called it "a beautiful jersey".

[WadeInBmore]

Re: Help with Whitey Lockman '62 uniform

According to baseball reference whitey lockman played his last year of professional ball (major league ball) in 1960.

From 72-74 he managed the cubs.

Interesting.

Wade

[WadeInBmore]

Re: Help with Whitey Lockman '62 uniform

In 1965 he started his managing career in the cubs system.

He last played for the giants in 1958. He finished his career in a Cincinnati jersey.

Was he a coach for the giants before he had that managing stint?

Wade

[cliffjmp33]

Re: Help with Whitey Lockman '62 uniform

Someone can confirm, but I think I read he was the Giants' 3rd Base coach from 1961-61, but he didn't wear/wasn't issued the number that ferrisfain41 has posted.

[WadeInBmore]

Re: Help with Whitey Lockman '62 uniform

According to Wikipedia (which everyone knows you can trust) Lockman was the Giants 3B coach in 62 wearing number 3. Both Wikipedia and baseball almanac show NO #8 on the roster or coaching staff in 62.

He coached as number 3 during the 63 and 64 season. Cookie Lavagetto joined the team in 1964 as #8. In 65 lockman didn't return to the team but Cookie did...as number 8.

If I find more I will post up.

Wade

[WadeInBmore]

Re: Help with Whitey Lockman '62 uniform

In 1961 Lockman was issued multiple jersey numbers. #3 & #6

[sox83cubs84]

Re: Help with Whitey Lockman '62 uniform

Is it possible that the jersey had a number change for minor league recycling? I couldn't say for sure without seeing the jersey, but it can't be ruled out until examined.

Dave Miedema

[lon lewis]

Re: Help with Whitey Lockman '62 uniform

I'm not quite sure what the fuss is all about. The jersey is just a '62 home Lockman jersey with a number change. The Giants jerseys of the day were subject to number changes for minor league use. Judging by the condition of both the neck trim and the NIC & year tag felt, this jersey has spent multiple seasons in the farm system. Also, judging by the photos, the front lettering is made of black felt on orange felt which is correct for the Wilson made jerseys but the back number appears to be black felt on orange tackle twill which is not how the Wilson numbers were made- it is what was used on the McAuliffe home jerseys. The changed number is not that uncommon to find on Giants jerseys of that era.

[ferrisfain41]

Re: Help with Whitey Lockman '62 uniform

Dave, Lon.

You are a big help.

Here's what I see after your input.
Lon, I see NO number change. It's 8. I showed to a seamtress, she verified nothing else was on the back. But the number was restiched. 8 to 8.
The frayed collar often came from coaches wearing jacket, Whitey was a coach in 62.
Someone went to effort on NIC, yr tag, C Lockman odd, isn't it? When were first initials used, there was only one Lockman?
So, it came back from minors, ?
Whitey wore it in Spring only?

I want to put it up for auction now, so I want to verify as much as I can. Thank you all for continued input.

ferrisfain

[lon lewis]

Re: Help with Whitey Lockman '62 uniform

This is almost too ridiculous to respond to. You sure want this to be an "all original" jersey. FYI, the Giants home Wilson jerseys had a NIC that featured either the full name or the first initial with the last name in '62. ( see the attached scans) Lockmans given first name was Carroll thus the C. Lockman. As far as the jacket thing goes, nice try. The way the neck trim falls apart like that is from multiple launderings not from wearing a jacket- other wise, all of the coaches and managers jerseys would look like that. It also doesn't take into account that the Giants had 3 sets of home jerseys during that period usually 2 McAuliffe and 1 Wilson so the idea that this jersey was worn for 81 home games plus 1 playoff and 4 World series games ( with a jacket) is kind of way out there. That also doesn't account for the excessive wear on the felt which also comes from multiple launderings. The fact the your seamstress found no evidence of a number change doesn't surprise me as the previous stitch marks could have gone away from multiple launderings, been covered up by the current number ( a 3 is just an 8 with the middle cut out) or any one of various other reasons. Or she may not have even known where and how to look. Since the Giants ordered their jerseys for the upcoming season during the early part of spring training. They used the previous year jerseys for spring training so a '62 would have been worn during '63 spring training. Lockman is listed as having worn # 3 from 61-64 so the idea that it was changed from 3 to 8 for him is out and there is no indication that he ever wore # 8. It's your jersey so oyou can list it however you want and put whatever "spin" you want in the description but anyone with at least minimal knowledge will know or at least should know what it is.