Photo matching and photo dating Pujols...

[fandango]

Hello fellow collectors!

This card is a 2002 Upper Deck Ovation...since this set was first sold in the summer of 2002, the cards were produced using 2001 photos, especially considering the production process/ lag time to getting a product into packs...

Pujols aggressive swing and movement toward first base make it seem like GAME ACTION and not batting practice and not spring training when his number was 68....

So, with these minor assumptions in place, can anyone place the time or even the game this picture was taken?

Distinguishing characteristics:
1. His nike blue and red gloves
2. His Nike blue and red creates
3. The small amount of facial hair
4. The long red undershirt...

thanks for any help from the photo matchers out there ...
http://i.imgur.com/1jyme.jpg

[fandango]

Hope jeff Scott sees this....

I heard a rumor that Pujols never used a black Sam bat in 2001 but I think that may be wrong...

[Birdbats]

Based on the shoes and batting gloves, I'd bet this photo was taken early during the 2002 season. I don't recall him wearing those kind of cleats in 2001. Check out Getty Image 522195 from April 3, 2002, and you'll see the similarities.

http://cache3.asset-cache.net/gc/522195-left-fielder-albert-pujols-of-the-st-louis-gettyimages.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=OCUJ5gVf7YdJQI2Xhkc2QCOJHHI2qwU5LXmSou3BrVZufsKB uB%2fgtcjrE2brC4K4

[hdavid_27]

I agree with Jeff. The photo on this card is from 2002. In 2001 Albert Pujols wore Red/Gray Cleats on the Road and Red/White Cleats at Home, the pattern was more of a zig zag, vertical lines pattern. In the picture its a blocked in Red/Blue pattern, which he wore in 2002. The Upper Deck Ovation product was released October 25, 2002 so I would absolutely agree that the photo is from 2002.
Also by the look on Pujols' face he did not hit it very well.

[STLHAMMER32]

I agree with these gentleman, it looks to be early 2002 in the photo...In regards to sam bats in 01... I found this photo saved on my computer. I saved it because I believed it was a photo from his rookie season using a black Sam bat.

[fandango]

Thanks for the input guys!

I do think however, that the Ovation set was released in June, making it seem less likely they could have 2002 photos make it into a new product just 2.5 months later.....

Set date reference http://www.baseballcardpedia.com/index.php/2002_Upper_Deck_Ovation

Again, thanks for the responses!

[fandango]

522195 nice find. Very similar is right...just can't confirm the goatee...which happens to be very distinctive goatee for Pujols...

[fandango]

This is from Oct 10th 2001...looks like very similar if not the same batting glove...and also Sam bat usage...

..
http://cache2.asset-cache.net/gc/1371796-albert-pujols-of-the-st-louis-cardinals-takes-gettyimages.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=OCUJ5gVf7YdJQI2Xhkc2QNQ3Ib1VNDz8cdQfpwDvT7btmfs8 4vmOvEtmgLfHp4p%2b&p=1

[fandango]

Glove and goatee match 8/23/2001
..
http://www.apimages.com/unsecured/GetBinary.ashx?_apbg=TNpRT4%2fwz67qmtvzIlAMaHmMie0 t29rrVhK7scDFFhcgZhpEPcSbuD5cF3VFiLXKA7Uf2PBFbS6zm 5EHDu0Vbsk1exl042snQeLrTY4Jf1mfGIzTHzomCKnEhMABrgX Oeip8yyYQCFocZVXcpQ6XUaLW1u17qdGXWdehL%2b8FuRpu%2f c2mD4R9U%2bvLOyMdEjvVNu0NioUgMc%2bOOjEOCeFt7kn%2fs RtJxBTvVpAfKAkgry1NrU0gnBm1K2t3J7AXKWaiVDL0gTpMk7l fgaeTE7lOhiI2beKnH7d93ikAZRajy40JtPTC%2b%2fFNLJnUq YG4bifgq3iwDcMHThiERw2%2bFID4A9Qqu177qpQBoxbKuGyNk %2fuQmAHmotk%2bgnCQI66UOVlCuEo%2bx5bHUYMpfkW4jhSRh NzrnBHbLxNVTExd%2bVksYeEE0v3oDey%2fGqEH15dPNiveGsr sXYxHPDQGUDiP9VP4aeg9b7j2kepuXOm3tS7xYdKQGpWeZA2Na fH%2bO2lZTDwIVGxNN%2fDPvzLx%2ffYqZk1%2b6eiBqVHOM8T D6Y4nWeZ8iQv%2bhEUVz13YflFL7hj7lAa0S0QUEBPl4EFJ57M A7jLCgEL2ELnSSo0UyDYmYkPWQdI1AthStKNHYpLXCji1Nx9hg w9hU6ICX4NxuL3hd7afSauwOkXtaynpXrhKKoAnbOI4ThzzRiy 1eBXuslmU5HwnyBz1UxCVqr1HfUuCIlc%2f5zv2uqhzh3pPwE7 bf0iRrmLm7XRem2RVZMH4QcVdsnyrOx0J8lr1hYP1%2b0kZ7x7 ql%2bv63K3l3FOCoeha8R89fqhXo5TjrzIbuJMlxXtDzvxslsq kPD7H5h4fW8c6eOywJg%3d%3d

[Birdbats]

He started using those batting gloves around late July in 2001, according to photos I've seen. But, the cleats are the giveaway. And, it really isn't improbable that a photo taken in March or April would be used for a set released in June. Even in the '80s, companies would release update sets featuring guys who were traded during the season, in their new uniforms (vs. the '70s when everything was airbrushed). Given the speed of production by 2001, a same-season photo probably wasn't a big deal.

[fandango]

May 2001. Different gloves but a black bat....
Jeff, what black bats did Pujols use in 2001?

http://www.apimages.com/unsecured/GetBinary.ashx?_apbg=V7T%2fJ39PnevAdU44PIS3LGlLh8j dKRXGvSYcrU33Ytr6ntAVqDwCVFO60IJFPfDqp3FvUfvBUFkc1 jG1hiNk1Lw6KBLPjIg%2fMZUJ1i20PgWqs7HmAM6267V0%2fgb HP6z%2fiXaOiWWWsV8ZlwYY%2b%2f%2fbrZcuQAoCNRMO6XSEA RJdZGAqBYsznKpVwgkBdxQ0JxE8lRQRTTMd%2bQv8PSmMoDgqm UXSUZQohzKBVNzfcz98FZCNPz0BrjsTrAIGGxaLMRhaxhhDmh6 uShzp%2fJQfyEhxnRaG5rFIHreBB%2bgIo0O2IRldLfLlL1TKS Xebo29vlvRZx5av6ny6Gv7%2f7Grda%2fRVU05vViKNVSiXjgS EE3vo8CbJ%2bsVNf3cwwAHxyL9lVFzL9RUDvlK%2bFMiCMbCt4 ioEOdMfjNO7o%2fT8Dqbq7jYKUe44XoL5aIHv8K9%2bDHEu5TU fue5chkrPSobKnogrsXeSRgTfA3GPJ2qLZsQy3lv%2b6B%2f48 RdgYkp43v1sFh%2bAZ2vLgl7io5X5Olsat9VkXxFwsnP9OTDoK KTX9LO4Ag0sTH6edVmc5EdQYq5GwN8biV3oLrdQ2wrOUYTNkNs VsEGZ2KQZVYozQKK1m6MSF9tu7%2fU%3d

[joelsabi]

What was the GU point of the thread or what were you trying to understand?

Do you own an GU item on that card?
Are you trying to discover the parameter date for photos used on a baseball card?
Are you trying to find the bat records of Pujols using SAM bats?

[joelsabi]

He started using those batting gloves around late July in 2001, according to photos I've seen. But, the cleats are the giveaway. And, it really isn't improbable that a photo taken in March or April would be used for a set released in June. Even in the '80s, companies would release update sets featuring guys who were traded during the season, in their new uniforms (vs. the '70s when everything was airbrushed). Given the speed of production by 2001, a same-season photo probably wasn't a big deal.

same season photos occurred often on cards even in the 1990's. case in point is all the arod cards from 1994, his callup season. photos were primarily from spring training tho.

[fandango]

What was the GU point of the thread or what were you trying to understand?

Do you own an GU item on that card?
Are you trying to discover the parameter date for photos used on a baseball card?
Are you trying to find the bat records of Pujols using SAM bats?


Trying to find the provenance for that black Sam bat...based on the 2002 ovation, I know it was games used, I just don't know when it was used...the bat is dated 4/1/01.

[joelsabi]

Was Pujols invited to Spring Training 2001 and what was his uniform number then?

[fandango]

Yes he was there, got the starting 3rd base job when bobby boniila got hurt late spring...he was Number 68. See his 2001 showdown card

[joelsabi]

Trying to find the provenance for that black Sam bat...based on the 2002 ovation, I know it was games used, I just don't know when it was used...the bat is dated 4/1/01.

Maybe you can post photos of the bat and Jeff can compare it to the batting characteristics that he is an expertise in. Maybe Jeff can pinpoint the time period based on the bat characteristics.

[fandango]

Jeff solid black bat from may 2001,
http://www.apimages.com/OneUp.aspx?st=k&kw=Albert%20pujols&showact=results&sort=relevance&cfas=__p%2C-1&sh=10&dtebf=6%2F1%2F2002&dteaf=3%2F1%2F2001&kwstyle=or&adte=1357407297&pagez=60&cfasstyle=AND&rids=6d34c7c3ede6da11af9f0014c2589dfb&dbm=PY2001&page=1&xslt=1&mediatype=Photo

[fandango]

http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj227/fandango231/a85a_1.jpg
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj227/fandango231/fab8_1.jpg
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj227/fandango231/5bbc_1.jpg
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj227/fandango231/ef18_1.jpg

Not shown is the handle which photo matches with the handle in the 2002 ovation (same line running up through the handle)

[STLHAMMER32]

I believe the photo on the card to be from spring training 2002. The batting gloves were used in both seasons as evidenced by photos but the shoes were worn by albert in 2002.

Nice bat Fandango, I've always liked the look of Sam Bats...do you have a full picture of the bat?

[Birdbats]

May 2001. Different gloves but a black bat....
Jeff, what black bats did Pujols use in 2001?

http://www.apimages.com/unsecured/GetBinary.ashx?_apbg=V7T%2fJ39PnevAdU44PIS3LGlLh8j dKRXGvSYcrU33Ytr6ntAVqDwCVFO60IJFPfDqp3FvUfvBUFkc1 jG1hiNk1Lw6KBLPjIg%2fMZUJ1i20PgWqs7HmAM6267V0%2fgb HP6z%2fiXaOiWWWsV8ZlwYY%2b%2f%2fbrZcuQAoCNRMO6XSEA RJdZGAqBYsznKpVwgkBdxQ0JxE8lRQRTTMd%2bQv8PSmMoDgqm UXSUZQohzKBVNzfcz98FZCNPz0BrjsTrAIGGxaLMRhaxhhDmh6 uShzp%2fJQfyEhxnRaG5rFIHreBB%2bgIo0O2IRldLfLlL1TKS Xebo29vlvRZx5av6ny6Gv7%2f7Grda%2fRVU05vViKNVSiXjgS EE3vo8CbJ%2bsVNf3cwwAHxyL9lVFzL9RUDvlK%2bFMiCMbCt4 ioEOdMfjNO7o%2fT8Dqbq7jYKUe44XoL5aIHv8K9%2bDHEu5TU fue5chkrPSobKnogrsXeSRgTfA3GPJ2qLZsQy3lv%2b6B%2f48 RdgYkp43v1sFh%2bAZ2vLgl7io5X5Olsat9VkXxFwsnP9OTDoK KTX9LO4Ag0sTH6edVmc5EdQYq5GwN8biV3oLrdQ2wrOUYTNkNs VsEGZ2KQZVYozQKK1m6MSF9tu7%2fU%3d

He was shipped and likely used black Louisville Slugger R205 model bats. Sam Bats. Rawlings. Possibly Carolina Clubs (know he used Gwynn finish, but not sure if he used any that were all black). Pujols used multiple brands during 2001 and often used other guys' bats. He also gave many bats away to others. I didn't start documenting his bat use until the 2004 postseason, so I can't say for sure what all he used in 2001.

[fandango]

Thanks for the input guys...

Are spring training uniforms the exact same as regular season ?

http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj227/fandango231/533a_1.jpg

[Birdbats]

Thanks for the input guys...

Are spring training uniforms the exact same as regular season ?



Yep. In 2002, the Cardinals could have worn extra 2001 jerseys for spring training or had new jerseys identical to the 2002 regular-season shirts. 2002 was the last season for Rawlings; they switched to Majestic in 2003.

[fandango]

spring training may make more sense if Pujols wasnt wearing long shirt underneath and his coach in the background wasnt wearing a jacket...

seems like April 4th weather in st louis and not march 30th weather in florida..

i think that getty image from april 4th matches pujols 2002 card almost exactly.....

the black sam bat has heavy wear and is cracked....never heard of someone cracking a bat in practice....

[yankees506]

I personally have cracked two pro quality wood bats at batting cadges that throw no faster than 70mph, so breaking a bat in practice is possible.

[STLHAMMER32]

spring training may make more sense if Pujols wasnt wearing long shirt underneath and his coach in the background wasnt wearing a jacket...

seems like April 4th weather in st louis and not march 30th weather in florida..

i think that getty image from april 4th matches pujols 2002 card almost exactly.....

the black sam bat has heavy wear and is cracked....never heard of someone cracking a bat in practice....


It may or may not be spring training in the photo but it isn't crazy to see players dress this way at spring training....In fact I remember playing in florida for spring training and wearing under armor for several games.

Here's a pic from Albert's first spring training with the Angels with some long gear on...