marino game worn

[timotswan]

I have noticed that grey flannel has a game worn jersey now in their inventory from the1998 season worn by dan marino. In looking at the sleeves they appear to be sinched and not elastic or do not have spandex underneath. The sleeves also appear to be cloth which is inconsistent from any picture I have ever seen him wearing. they look like a authentic replica you can buy.

Can anyone please verify what I am seeing and give opinions?

[RKGIBSON]

I have a 98 Marino that I purchased from the NFL. It was used, and photo matched, to the 10-25-98 game vs Patriots. The jersey has a lot of differences. The sleeves are not cuffed. Mine has green vinyl around the upper part of the sleeve and spandex in the lower part making the sleeve very loose. Mine also has velcro on the front and rear of the tail. It is a Starter 54 with a L flag also. I will photo it and post them if needed.

Roger

[timotswan]

thanks for the reply. I have one issued to him from the '99 season it also has velcro on front and back as well. It has vinyl sleeves with spandex. This is what concerns me about this jersey listed.

[hblakewolf]

I suggest contacting the folks at Grey Flannel and ask them what criteria/information was used to authenticate this Marino?

One has to believe that they have some type of grading sheet similar to MEARS that would include a reference to Getty Images, wear, etc.

Please update us as to their reply.

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

[timotswan]

I have e-mailed them for some info. I have looked at numerous pics and have never seen one that has sleeves like this, which has me puzzled.

[timotswan]

I e-mailed them and they responded for the jersey they have for auction. I then responded the I was looking for the jerseye they have for sale. It has been removed. I do not know if someone bought it or not.

I am writing this because I was just burned on a Marino helemt which I am told is fake. It is from the 1990 season. I bought it from a guy who anwsers the phone "Game Breakers" He is located in Pa. The helemt was listed on Ebay bu I neotiated with him offline. I did so because of the Grey Flannel Cert.

Once I received it I tried it on as it was a size 7 1/2. I am not big but it did not fit me. I did try and glue a number (silver #3) back on as it fell off only after a few weeks of having the helemt. the helmet had all the proper stickers ( 25th annv., nfl, Desert Storm American Flag). I even bought videos from games to see what game it may have been used in based upon the markings.

After not being convinced it was real and being new to this type of collecting I thought I could send it back to Grey Flannel and sell it. They told me they had enough Marino stuff for thier next 2 auctions (Pat Catello's stuff which just ended and they stuff they have on auction now).

So, I then sent it to American Memorabilia. They do not recognize Grey Flannel so they sent it to Lou Lampson. He found it to be inconclusive. I then sent it to a very respected person for him to look at. He told me that Marino wore a 7 5/8. He also told me that the shell was from 1985 and the fask mask was from 1986. He found out further that all the helemts were accounted for. ( I told him I would not use his name)

I also had coorespondence with someone who knows a someone that is considered a "dolphin expert" ( I said I would not use his name) who also confiirmed that all the helemts from 1990 are accounted for.

I am writing this because I spent $3500 on a helemt that appears to be fake and I want others to make sure they communicate on their purchases before buying.

I now have the helemt back and I had thought about selling it as an auto'd Marino helmet, but after thinking about this more I do not want this to get back out in the public. I now think I will destroy this so it never surfaces again.

[hblakewolf]

I
I am writing this because I was just burned on a Marino helemt which I am told is fake. It is from the 1990 season. I bought it from a guy who anwsers the phone "Game Breakers" He is located in Pa. The helemt was listed on Ebay bu I neotiated with him offline. I did so because of the Grey Flannel Cert.

Once I received it I tried it on as it was a size 7 1/2. I am not big but it did not fit me. I did try and glue a number (silver #3) back on as it fell off only after a few weeks of having the helemt. the helmet had all the proper stickers ( 25th annv., nfl, Desert Storm American Flag). I even bought videos from games to see what game it may have been used in based upon the markings.

After not being convinced it was real and being new to this type of collecting I thought I could send it back to Grey Flannel and sell it. They told me they had enough Marino stuff for thier next 2 auctions (Pat Catello's stuff which just ended and they stuff they have on auction now).

So, I then sent it to American Memorabilia. They do not recognize Grey Flannel so they sent it to Lou Lampson. He found it to be inconclusive. I then sent it to a very respected person for him to look at. He told me that Marino wore a 7 5/8. He also told me that the shell was from 1985 and the fask mask was from 1986. He found out further that all the helemts were accounted for. ( I told him I would not use his name)

I also had coorespondence with someone who knows a someone that is considered a "dolphin expert" ( I said I would not use his name) who also confiirmed that all the helemts from 1990 are accounted for.

I am writing this because I spent $3500 on a helemt that appears to be fake and I want others to make sure they communicate on their purchases before buying.

I now have the helemt back and I had thought about selling it as an auto'd Marino helmet, but after thinking about this more I do not want this to get back out in the public. I now think I will destroy this so it never surfaces again.

Tim:

Your basis for this post is to outline the details about a 1990 Marino helmet you purchased and now have discovered to be fake, correct?

You open your post by saying that your purchase of the helmet was based on a Grey Flannel LOA, "The helemt was listed on Ebay bu I neotiated with him offline. I did so because of the Grey Flannel Cert.

What I'm having a difficult time understanding is the information about your dialogue with Grey Flannel after you learn that the helmet is questionable. You note, " After not being convinced it was real and being new to this type of collecting I thought I could send it back to Grey Flannel and sell it. They told me they had enough Marino stuff for thier next 2 auctions (Pat Catello's stuff which just ended and they stuff they have on auction now).

Did you specifically seek a refund from Grey Flannel or did you simply desire to have them re-sell it through their next auction and wash your hands of this?

There was a similar situation posted here on the Forum. A collector purchased what he thought was a game worn Cal Ripken Jr. Turn Back the Clock jersey that also had a Grey Flannel LOA. After extensive research (similar to your situation), the collector learned that not only was the Tuen Back game never played, the jersey could have never have been worn! He then contacted Grey Flannel for a refund, however, they refused. This forced the collector to take legal action, and the case was made public on the television show The Peoples Court. The judge ruled in favor of the collector.

In my opinion, you have a very similar situation. You noted that your purchase was made based on the Grey Flannel LOA (same reasoning as presented in the Peoples Court case with Ripken). You also indicate you have experts who can prove the helmet is fake. Based upon your informaiton and also after spending $3,500 why do you now state, " I now think I will destroy this so it never surfaces again".?

What are we missing here?


Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

[timotswan]

I have done some investigation and I now have found the PSA/DNA sticker. The sticker states the helemt was signed in 2002. the cert from grey Flannel is from 1994 and ahs the auto in the picture. It now appears to me the cert. is a fake so I am going to call the guy who sold me this helemt and if necessary I will consult an attorney. I will also call Grey Flannel to see if they want to take action.

[hblakewolf]

I have done some investigation and I now have found the PSA/DNA sticker. The sticker states the helemt was signed in 2002. the cert from grey Flannel is from 1994 and ahs the auto in the picture. It now appears to me the cert. is a fake so I am going to call the guy who sold me this helemt and if necessary I will consult an attorney. I will also call Grey Flannel to see if they want to take action.

Tim:
Does the Grey Flannel LOA indicate the helmet a real Doplhins helmet that is game worn by Marino? If this is the case, then it appears you have two issues:
1. The fake autograph
2. Grey Flannel writing a LOA based on the actual helmet (not on the
autograph)

If this is the case, then I'm not I understand your statement, "I will also call Grey Flannel to see if they want to take action" . Was Grey Flannels LOA based upon the autograph being real, or did Grey Flannel base their findings that the helmet was real on the actual characterics of the helmet, i.e., wear, markings, tagging, facemask etc.?

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

[timotswan]

What I am saying is , is that I feel that the guy who sold it to me made up this cert. and the helemt on his own

The cert is dated 1994 and states it is game worn from 1990 and autographed. the autograph according to the psa/dna sticker was done in California in 2002.

how could grey flannel produced a cert. in 1994 with an autograph and pics of it when it was not even signed until 2002. this is why i feel this guy made up the cert. using grey flannel's name.

[hblakewolf]

Tim-
A lot of odd issues here. Is it possible to post the Grey Flannel and other LOA's that you received with the helmet here?

You have a great resource with the readers on this Forum, and I would bet could shed light on your helmet. Posting the various LOA's here may save you the grief of proceeding any further or for that matter, point you in the direction of a good lawyer-who knows.

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

[timotswan]

I will get the cert. together. It is at my office. here is a pic of the helmet






http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2661&stc=1&d=1163086411

[indyred]

One reason not a fan of auto's on something of this type. The faded sig looks bad on there. Any update on getting the coa pictures up. What is that other sticker on the back of the helmet? Was that sticker a one year thing? I would think if you prove it is a not what it says, you should have some type of claim against the seller of it to you.

[hblakewolf]

Something does not make sense here........

Why do the photos read "2006 American Memorabilia"? From the information provided, American Memorabila passed on the helmet.

Where is the promised LOA's the reader was going to post?

:confused:

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

[CollectGU]

This helmet has been around ebay for a while now (at least 2 years)....I thought at one time it was being sold on ebay possibly by a company called Gridiron authentics ( ihave to check my e-mails). I asked around about it and was told that the facemask and size were wrong and I passed on it...I will check my e-mails to see who was originally selling it back then..

Dave

[timotswan]

The COA is at my office. I will be getting it tomorrow and post it this weekend, If canI figure out my scanner. The helmet was on ebay but I bought it from him after speaking with him on the phone and because it had a grey flannel cert., I did not know any better or really much about game used stuff.

I did find out marino wore a 7/ 5/8 not a 7 1/2.

I did send it to American Memorabilia before I found out all the stuff that I now know about the helmet. When I sent it to American Memorabilia and they passed I began to investigate further about its autheticity.

[timotswan]

If anyone can find the old posting on ebay please help. I e-mailed ebay to find out how to look up this old a listing but have not heard back.

I bought it in Jan '06. I have been sick so this is why I ave not gone and got the cert. to post. Will do it soon so I can try and get some help.

thank you everyone for your input. I have surely learned a lot from this whole expierence and found some dealers that are very helpful and can truly be trusted.

[timotswan]

here is the coa and pics. Hpefully someone can help.

[timotswan]

here are the pics that accompanied the coa. I also hope someone can help me find out who and how or what avenue I can go down to get my money back. thanks

[timotswan]

Does anyone have any thoughts for help with this or ahould I just abandoned my efforts?

I have tried to contact ebay to get the orginal listing but so far they can not help.

[indyred]

Is that the way GF issued photo's with stuff back then? Seems weird they just taped a little note on a polarid photo. I think ebay only keeps completed auctions for a couple months. With so much time being passed it's going to make things more difficult. Do you save the emails with the seller?

[timotswan]

Grey Flannel told me they did COA's like this back at this time. They had polaroids with the COA's.

I do not know if the COA is real.

[saftey45]

timotswan (http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/member.php?u=1455)

Can you email me? I have a question for you, saftey45@yahoo.com thanks mike

[ekpentz]

I found another issue with this "game used" helmet. The facemask on this helmet is a JOP. Marino stopped using the JOP facemask in 1987 (I believe). From then on, he used a JOP-SW facemask. I know he switched to the JOP-SW long before 1990.

[mvandor]

I found another issue with this "game used" helmet. The facemask on this helmet is a JOP. Marino stopped using the JOP facemask in 1987 (I believe). From then on, he used a JOP-SW facemask. I know he switched to the JOP-SW long before 1990.

Uh, this thread is ancient, that's your first post here?

[ekpentz]

Uh, this thread is ancient, that's your first post here?


sorry, I was just looking for Dan Marino stuff and stumblesd on this thread. i didn't even bother to read the date of the posts