NBA collectors question

[happyyoungster]

I don't collect NBA game worn, but, I've always wondered: how do the high-end NBA collectors out there authenticate their game worn jerseys?
The NFL has grass, mud, hit marks, paint, team repairs, etc.
MLB has dirt, grass, etc. Absent of modern-day authentication, how can you tell a game worn shirt next to an issued shirt that was never worn? Can you ascertain use based on wash wear alone? Were players only issued a few jerseys back in the 80's & 90's? Photomatching has to be tough, as well.

I'm curious to hear from the NBA collectors out there.
Educate me!

[nickacs]

Re: NBA collectors question

Yea, NBA jerseys are probably the hardest of the 4 major sports to photomatch since there's never any dirt/grass/stains/etc.

It's a lot easier of course if the jersey is from a special event (ie. All-Star/Finals because of patches/rarity and in recent years, Christmas Day, Noche Latina, old style uniforms, etc).

But for regular season, the best bet is if you can blow up some nice Getty/AP/etc pics and try and match the mesh holes. Also loose threads too.

I've seen some awesome NBA jersey photomatches on here from some, most notable Mickeybenz, who has an awesome NBA collection. A lot of times, he uses the mesh hole technique. If you search the thread of 'Post your photo-matched items here', you'll find some.

[Dewey2007]

Re: NBA collectors question

If you purchase NBA jerseys through Meigray they come already authenticated. I know that Meigray will send you a photomatch pic of your jersey for an extra charge if you purchase one through them. I got one for my Jason Kidd jersey a couple of years back. Other then that I have to agree with nickacs, it's tough to photomatch NBA jerseys unless there is some distinguishing feature like loose threads or patches and/or you have access to high-res images. If it doesn't come through Meigray it's also hard to authenticate newer NBA jerseys unless you get it directly from the player or someone affiliated with the team or player and even then you have to do your homework.

It also appears that NBA players, at least the stars, wear a lot more jerseys during the season then they used to back in the day.

Hope some of the diehard NBA collectors can share their thoughts on the subject as well.

I don't collect NBA game worn, but, I've always wondered: how do the high-end NBA collectors out there authenticate their game worn jerseys?
The NFL has grass, mud, hit marks, paint, team repairs, etc.
MLB has dirt, grass, etc. Absent of modern-day authentication, how can you tell a game worn shirt next to an issued shirt that was never worn? Can you ascertain use based on wash wear alone? Were players only issued a few jerseys back in the 80's & 90's? Photomatching has to be tough, as well.

I'm curious to hear from the NBA collectors out there.
Educate me!

[BarryMeisel]

Re: NBA collectors question

Hi Nick,

The NBA & MGG Game-Worn Authentication Program photo-matches every NBA jersey it offers.

We can do this because we have access to high-quality, high-resolution photos through a variety of licensed sources. These photos, when blown up large enough so that the B in the word BOSTON vividly hogs an entire computer screen, enable us to match the countless mesh holes, threads, and imperfections in today's jerseys.

An NBA jersey's pattern is unique, almost like a fingerprint. So combined with the program's authentication procedures we use to acquire jerseys, confirming the dates worn through photo-matching is not as difficult as it might seem.

Of course, without the proper sourcing, matching a jersey purported to be worn in a certain season would be very difficult. But we find it just takes diligence, time, and good eyesight.

That's why I leave it to my younger staffers!!! My eyeballs get blurry looking at too many jerseys blown up on a computer screen 100X.

Hope this helps,
All the best,

Barry

[cohibasmoker]

Re: NBA collectors question

Yea, NBA jerseys are probably the hardest of the 4 major sports to photomatch since there's never any dirt/grass/stains/etc.

It's a lot easier of course if the jersey is from a special event (ie. All-Star/Finals because of patches/rarity and in recent years, Christmas Day, Noche Latina, old style uniforms, etc).

But for regular season, the best bet is if you can blow up some nice Getty/AP/etc pics and try and match the mesh holes. Also loose threads too.

I've seen some awesome NBA jersey photomatches on here from some, most notable Mickeybenz, who has an awesome NBA collection. A lot of times, he uses the mesh hole technique. If you search the thread of 'Post your photo-matched items here', you'll find some.

Research - and the internet is the main tool to get it done. I'm researching this jersey now. From what I've found, in the late 1960's, every Laker's jersey was made out of durene material and each jersey was custom made for each player by Tiernan. They did not apply the Tiernan tag until the 1970's. Now the idea is to photo-match it which may be the most difficult part of the research.

Jim

[genius]

Re: NBA collectors question

That Lakers jersey sure passes the eyeball test, AMAZING how you come up with this stuff!

[otismalibu]

Re: NBA collectors question

Certainly not a high end collector, but it's much tougher (IMO) to match older jerseys simply because it's hard to find photos that show enough detail.

Sometimes you can find odd spacing (below) or look at alignment of letters/numbers, but it's hard to find quality images from the 70s and 80s for comparing mesh holes. Even when using original slides.

[sportscentury]

Re: NBA collectors question

Yea, NBA jerseys are probably the hardest of the 4 major sports to photomatch since there's never any dirt/grass/stains/etc.

It's a lot easier of course if the jersey is from a special event (ie. All-Star/Finals because of patches/rarity and in recent years, Christmas Day, Noche Latina, old style uniforms, etc).

But for regular season, the best bet is if you can blow up some nice Getty/AP/etc pics and try and match the mesh holes. Also loose threads too.

I've seen some awesome NBA jersey photomatches on here from some, most notable Mickeybenz, who has an awesome NBA collection. A lot of times, he uses the mesh hole technique. If you search the thread of 'Post your photo-matched items here', you'll find some.

I agree that there have been some outstanding NBA jersey photomatches presented here. But there have been many questionable ones on GUU, as well, I'm afraid. So for newer basketball collectors, please be careful. "One loose thread does not a photomatch make."

[happyyoungster]

Re: NBA collectors question

Thanks for the input, fellas.

So, it sounds like the 1990's are the hardest time period of jerseys to authenticate? (lack of quality photos, # of photos, etc.) I'm guessing this is also the time period that players started wearing more jerseys in a season, which, in turn, spread the game usage amongst a larger supply of shirts? Also, this is about the time when people started buying and wearing jerseys as a part of their personal wardrobe?

Did Sand-Knit, Champion or Starter ever market player-specific (customized) jerseys for retail sale in the 80's or 90's? If so, can you tell them apart from actual locker room samples? I've seen a lot of NBA jerseys that appeared to have all the proper tagging (at least to my untrained eye) but were sold as team issued. Where did they originate from?

I ask these questions because I'd like to someday add a John Stockton jersey to my personal collection. Quite frankly, I don't know what the hell I'm talking about when it comes to NBA.

[cohibasmoker]

Re: NBA collectors question

I don't collect NBA game worn, but, I've always wondered: how do the high-end NBA collectors out there authenticate their game worn jerseys?
The NFL has grass, mud, hit marks, paint, team repairs, etc.
MLB has dirt, grass, etc. Absent of modern-day authentication, how can you tell a game worn shirt next to an issued shirt that was never worn? Can you ascertain use based on wash wear alone? Were players only issued a few jerseys back in the 80's & 90's? Photomatching has to be tough, as well.

I'm curious to hear from the NBA collectors out there.
Educate me!

Ultimately, it's all on you.

When I started collecting in the 1980's, when you bought an item, it was guaranteed by the Seller. Today, its, "do your homework before you buy". I hate that phrase and I often wonder - why doesn't that phrase apply to Seller's? Shouldn't Seller's do their homework before they sell something?

Just some thoughts.

[sox83cubs84]

Re: NBA collectors question

Nick:

You won't have to worry about Starter for 1980s jerseys...they only made NBA gamers for two seasons (1997-98 and 1998-99) I won't say there aren't any, but Champion jerseys pre-1990/91 are very few and far between. Champion got the NBA uniform contract that year, and had a league exclusive through 1996-97. After that, until 2001-02, they supplied a small number of NBA clubs.

Stockton wore Sand-Knit from 1984-90, then Champion from 1990-2002, and, for 2002-03, wore Reebok. His jerseys are very small....nearly everything I've seen has been a 40 or a 42, the latter being later in his career. Also,most of his gamers have no extra length; the ones that do, late career again, have 2 inches. Finally, jerseys from pre-1986/87 will not have an NBA logo on the shoulder front.

I hope this helps.

Dave Miedema

[happyyoungster]

Re: NBA collectors question

Dave-

As always, I appreciate your help. I will definitely store that information for later reference.

Does anyone know how many of each jersey were typically made for each player throughout the course of an NBA season? I'm only interested in the 1980's & 90's as I understand that more modern stuff is a whole different ballgame. Wondering how the NBA compares to MLB (2-3 each road/home) & NFL (same) when it comes to this. Obviously, I understand there are always exceptions to the rule.

[both-teams-played-hard]

Re: NBA collectors question

Research - and the internet is the main tool to get it done. I'm researching this jersey now. From what I've found, in the late 1960's, every Laker's jersey was made out of durene material and each jersey was custom made for each player by Tiernan. They did not apply the Tiernan tag until the 1970's. Now the idea is to photo-match it which may be the most difficult part of the research.

Jim

Damn dude. I don't even like the Lakers, but that's my holy grail! Sweet like bear meat! I'm sure the names Erwin Mueller and John block have been mentioned to you.
This one is Tiernan made. No mfg tag, only a tiny size tag. Most likely the exact same durene weave used for 60s Lakers shirts.

[both-teams-played-hard]

Re: NBA collectors question