McGwire bat on eBay

[spartakid]

Just noticed this on eBay. Wonder if those giant numbers on the knob were meant to cover up the other numbers that you can clearly see behind?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MARK-McGWIRE-1993-Game-Used-Bat-w-Provenance-Oakland-As-Cardinals-/151015587720?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item23293aff88

[onlyalbert]

Just noticed this on eBay. Wonder if those giant numbers on the knob were meant to cover up the other numbers that you can clearly see behind?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MARK-McGWIRE-1993-Game-Used-Bat-w-Provenance-Oakland-As-Cardinals-/151015587720?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item23293aff88

Doesn't look like his tar pattern, and the usage suggests BP bat. Probably given to someone else to use, hence the number cover-up.

[zonker]

inverted the photo to reveal the number underneath and it look's like #47 miguel jimenez. mcgwire probably gave it to him since it was so late in the season in 93. when he was called up. to use for bp. he was gone early 94.

[TwinLakesPark]

This is my bat that is in the listing, and I would be happy to answer any questions that you might have regarding it.


Doesn't look like his tar pattern and the usage suggests BP bat.

This statement is of pure ignorance. You obviously have NO idea of what his pine tar pattern is. Please provide visual of proof of BP usage vs. game usage, as I highly doubt you have any clue of what your talking about. Just provide facts, no rhetoric.


inverted the photo to reveal the number underneath and it look's like #47 miguel jimenez. mcgwire probably gave it to him since it was so late in the season in 93. when he was called up. to use for bp. he was gone early 94.

I am sitting here holding the bat and I cannot make out #47.

Why don't you guys comment on the low production number of the bat, which points towards a very early season delivery. This is important as McGwire only played the first 27 games of the season. Also, what are the odds that this so called Jimenez that was a late season call up had the same pine tar pattern as McGwire? Maybe Big Mac tarred the bat, used it in BP, kept it around in the club house until September, and then game if to Jimenez? That sounds like a logical thesis...

Then there is chain of ownership and provenance, but I guess the bat boy who sold the collection could have forged the documentation or even altered the bat. Then maybe the dealer that I purchased it from, Adelson Sports, forged the documentation or committed the fraud in which you suggest? Or maybe it was me?

So which one is it guys? Why don't you take your speculation all the way so that you can break another forum rule.

[zonker]

i didn't realize? i was breaking a rule, if so i'm very sorry. here are the pic's and maybe you can make it out also. it look's as if the 47 was written in silver pen. "i kinda outlined it in red on the inverted photo" and them gone over with the black. you may have to blow it up on both piuc's to see. again i was just giving a reasonable reason as to why the 25 is like it is. it's not common for a mcgwire bat to have a 25 like that. it doen't mean it's not a authentic mcgwire gamer. i meant no harm. sorry twinlakespark. it more than likely was used by mcgwire early and loaned or given to another to use. that's all.

[spartakid]

I won't comment on the tar pattern as I don't know enough about Mac specifically. But do you see what I am talking about? Where the openings are on the two and five there appear to be much thinner sharpie numbers that are partially exposed. As far as giving it to Jimenez, I don't know one way or the other. But if it were given to him as you said (which does indeed happen often in club houses) wouldn't it be Jimenez's number on top if he were the last to use it? I simply posted this because of my own curiosity, not to accuse anyone in particular.

[zonker]

again i wasn't knocking the bat. everyone know's i'm a huge mcgwire collector. if his prices weren't so high. i would love to have it in my collection. simply because as "you" pointed out twinlakespark. 93 was a short year and there aren't that many 93 bats out there. again sorry if i rubbed anyone on here the wrong way. i was just trying to be helpful, so i'll shut up now.

[TwinLakesPark]

Where the openings are on the two and five there appear to be much thinner sharpie numbers that are partially exposed.

I do see the two thin lines, but I can not even get close to making those out into a number...no even close. There is no variation in the think black that demonstrate a number cover up.


here are the pic's and maybe you can make it out also. it look's as if the 47 was written in silver pen. "i kinda outlined it in red on the inverted photo" and them gone over with the black. you may have to blow it up on both piuc's to see.

The inverted photo is pretty cool, but I think that is a big stretch and not conclusive in my opinion. In fact, I respectfully ask that you remove that photo because I believe it is misleading. Maybe replace it with the copy before you drew the red lines on it?

You guys have to know that these posts are permanent and cannot be removed. If you are going to question the authenticity of an item, you need to have substantial proof to validate it. I am all about the promotion of knowledge in the hobby to clean it up as there is so much junk out there, but speculation surrounding one of my assets that could potentially harm its value because of the now permanent link to it from this thread is damaging.

[zonker]

the moderator's can remove it. i don't think all post's are permanent. moderators can you please delete my post's as i'm not trying to discredit the bat posted by another member. in my post's. i was just offering an reasonable explaination of what i was seeing. everyone doesn't see thing's the same way and i respect that! i was not meaning to cause any harm to the seller or the sale of the bat in this post or call into question the authenticity of this being a real mcgwire gamer. again sorry twinlakespark. it wasn't a personal or authenticity issue with the bat for me or my post's.

[onlyalbert]

Not calling out the bat. Just giving my opinion. Here are a few other examples albeit later in his career. Hitter use on game bats usually is concentrated above the stamping on the face and for a RH hitter and/or on the back side of the bat.....not all over the bat. Also the tar is more spread out through the middle of the bat on a Mac. If he only played in 27 games then you would not see that much use leading to my BP theory. There is obviously a number under the 25 hence the tar pattern would be the other player's pattern, correct? And I've never seen the number 25 written like that on any other Mac bat and because it's on top of the other number leads me to believe someone other than Mac wrote it. Again, these are my opinions only.

[earlywynnfan]

I do see the two thin lines, but I can not even get close to making those out into a number...no even close. There is no variation in the think black that demonstrate a number cover up.



The inverted photo is pretty cool, but I think that is a big stretch and not conclusive in my opinion. In fact, I respectfully ask that you remove that photo because I believe it is misleading. Maybe replace it with the copy before you drew the red lines on it?

You guys have to know that these posts are permanent and cannot be removed. If you are going to question the authenticity of an item, you need to have substantial proof to validate it. I am all about the promotion of knowledge in the hobby to clean it up as there is so much junk out there, but speculation surrounding one of my assets that could potentially harm its value because of the now permanent link to it from this thread is damaging.

How about finding one --ONE-- known legit McGwire bat out there with numbers written like this. That would go far in showing your bat doesn't have other numbers underneath the 25.

Ken

[TwinLakesPark]

Not calling out the bat. Just giving my opinion... Also the tar is more spread out through the middle of the bat on a Mac.

I completely disagree on the non match to the pine tar pattern. My bat is tarred appropriately for the time period, and has "chunkier" tar, which is from heavier use and more applications. He actually used bats until they cracked. In his later Cardinal years (especially 1998), the use is minimal as the production was in the thousands. See the below picture from another collector. The 4th bat from the top is a 1993 gamer that was photo matched. Look at the pine tar application of that bat. So I guess that photo matched bat was used by someone else?

http://asevotech.com/macbat.jpg

Rather than continue to throw around opinions and theories that are contradictory to the legal documentation that I have, I am going to submit the bat to Gray Flannel and/or Mears and allow them to conduct their own research. I do not have access to the thousands of photos that exist of McGwire game used bats, especially the thousands of uncracked 1998 so called "gamers" that are out there.

I do have a notarized letter from Kenny Garibaldi, the bat boy who obtained it, so if it is deemed not to be authentic, I have legal grounds to prosecute both him and Adelson Sports.

I will offer a $200 reward to anyone who can definitively photo match this.

[onlyalbert]

I completely disagree on the non match to the pine tar pattern. My bat is tarred appropriately for the time period, and has "chunkier" tar, which is from heavier use and more applications. He actually used bats until they cracked. In his later Cardinal years (especially 1998), the use is minimal as the production was in the thousands. See the below picture from another collector. The 4th bat from the top is a 1993 gamer that was photo matched. Look at the pine tar application of that bat. So I guess that photo matched bat was used by someone else?

http://asevotech.com/macbat.jpg

Rather than continue to throw around opinions and theories that are contradictory to the legal documentation that I have, I am going to submit the bat to Gray Flannel and/or Mears and allow them to conduct their own research. I do not have access to the thousands of photos that exist of McGwire game used bats, especially the thousands of uncracked 1998 so called "gamers" that are out there.

I do have a notarized letter from Kenny Garibaldi, the bat boy who obtained it, so if it is deemed not to be authentic, I have legal grounds to prosecute both him and Adelson Sports.

I will offer a $200 reward to anyone who can definitively photo match this.


7 of the 10 bats you pictured are A's bats and only one is close to yours as far as tar. Have the guy take pics of the 10 knobs and see how many match yours. And are you saying there is not another players number under the 25? There are a couple of big time Mac collectors on here. I'm sure they would be happy to chime in about the number on the end of the bat. By all means have Troy K or Taube check it out, and let us know what they say please so we can all be set straight.

[TwinLakesPark]

7 of the 10 bats you pictured are A's bats and only one is close to yours as far as tar.

Correct, and that bat is also from 1993, the same year as my asset, which makes me even more comfortable about the pine tar application.


And are you saying there is not another players number under the 25?

From my eyes and holding the bat, and the doctored inverted photo that was posted, there is not conclusive evidence of a number underneath it. A suggestive photo was posted and doctored, and has now removed any objective opinion as to what is/or is not there.


There are a couple of big time Mac collectors on here. I'm sure they would be happy to chime in about the number on the end of the bat.

That would be great.


By all means have Troy K or Taube check it out, and let us know what they say please so we can all be set straight.

I will post the results. My reward of $200 for the photo match still stands.

[onlyalbert]

Is the $200 reward for a phtomatch to McGwire or Jimenez?

Here's the problem I have with your bat/listing. A couple years ago I bought a high end bat on e-bay. The photos provided looked great. I paid 4 figures for the bat. When I got it home there was obvious signs of use not seen in the photos. Is it my fault for not asking questions....yes. In my opinion, it was also unethical for the seller to not have included all of the photos. In the end, it is my fault for not doing my homework. I wanted the bat to be something that it wasn't.

Is your bat a McGwire bat?.....absolutely, it says so on the stampings.
Is your bat game used?......absolutely.....the use is more than evident.
Is your bat a "McGwire game used bat"? Depends on how you interpret that statement.
Is the use McGwire's?......maybe or maybe not.
Is there another number under the 25? In my opinion yes. You say there is not conclusive evidence that there is a number under there. Well, is there conclusive evidence that there is NOT a number under there? Would you go so far as to say there is "possibly another number under the 25"?

If so, you should state that in the listing so someone does not have buyer's remorse. That is all I am saying. What isn't stated in the listing is more telling than what is.

You want this bat to be something that it may not be.....and for good reason.....you are selling it. Good luck to you on the authentication and good luck to the buyer.

[3arod13]

The lines, where the arrows are, have no reason to be there, if 25 was being written on the knob. Especially the line going horizontal on the 5.

No way to explain that, other than there was something else written underneath.

[rdeversole]

There's clearly another number there. IMO, the fat and wide numbering on bats like this usually seem to suggest a cover up of another number.. and a very obvious one at that.

[TwinLakesPark]

Would anyone associated with this thread care to identify yourself as the parties who are now starting to submit low ball offers on the bat?

Collusion is the first word that comes to mind.

[TwinLakesPark]

Is the $200 reward for a phtomatch to McGwire or Jimenez?


$200 for a match to McGwire
$1000 for a match to Jimenez - ($200 payable immediately, $800 upon legal settlement with the seller)

[onlyalbert]

Would anyone associated with this thread care to identify yourself as the parties who are now starting to submit low ball offers on the bat?

Collusion is the first word that comes to mind.

My ebay ID ends in 62401. I can promise you I am not making an offer on it. Have you considered that these are legit offers for what the perceived value of the bat is?

[zonker]

twinlakespark, i didn't doctor anything. i just drew red lines around what i was seeing. i hope you don't include me in your collusion theory. i'ts not me. i don't have an ebay acct. at all and have made no offer's on it. here is the picture again without the red lines. if you have windows picture viewer, all you have to do is open it. then click on paint go to "invert colors" and click it. that's it. no doctoring! i apologizerd to you a few times,for sharing my opinion. so please don't accuse me of trying to mislead anything or anyone. i was just showing what i saw. in my worthless opinion. whatever is under there was written in a light color pen that's why it show's thru as black on the inverted picture, just as the black ink show's as white. i think going thru mears or someone that provides that service is a great idea. the buyer will appreciate a letter from one of those guy's better than an relatively unknown source anyway. it will also raise the value and interest in the bat. like i said besides the # on the knob. i like the bat! i've just never seen another mcgwire bat done like it and i've seen alot of mcgwire's in my year's of collecting mcgwire. i was just trying to help with a reasonable reason as to why it look's the way it does. that's it. that all.

[earlywynnfan]

Don't know how long you've been in this hobby, but with the casual way you throw around "lawsuit" and "prosecute," plus the bullying tone of your responses, I'm going to guess that perhaps you want to move to a less stressful hobby, one where you don't peruse forums where people's opinions may differ from yours.

Just my opinion.

Ken

PS: You have access to this forum and you have access to ebay. You may even have access to the histories of major auction houses. I'm still waiting for you to find a knob with this type of numbering on the knob.

[cfern023]

Has anyone contacted a person by the initials R.H. I'm curious what he would think about it, as I've always found him not only reputable, but respectable in his communications with me.

Those who know who I'm talking about, please keep his name to yourself. I'm not sure if he's much of a private or public person.

[Samets]

Don't know how long you've been in this hobby, but with the casual way you throw around "lawsuit" and "prosecute," plus the bullying tone of your responses, I'm going to guess that perhaps you want to move to a less stressful hobby, one where you don't peruse forums where people's opinions may differ from yours.

Just my opinion.

Ken


Agreed. These are opinions and valid ones at that! If no one has seen this style of markings on a bat, it's natural to be curious and ask questions.

[Takuleechch]

This thread is hilarious. Why are people acting scared? Stick to your guns!!! Say it how it is!!!
You have to be pretty one-eyed to totally dismiss the lines under the number. I mean to convince yourself they don't even exist! Haha

[ousooner_85]

Hahahaha.......Classic Thread!

[Takuleechch]

What's the update on this?

[Rob L]

What's the update on this?

Auction ended by seller!

[Takuleechch]

Do you think the seller will update us at all?

[TwinLakesPark]

Do you think the seller will update us at all?

I would think so.

[swainer]

I would think so.
LOL!

[Takuleechch]

So what's happening with this. This thread can't just sizzle out!

[TwinLakesPark]

So what's happening with this. This thread can't just sizzle out!

The last I heard, the Scientologists had acquired it for display in their Clearwater headquarters, as they were trying to lure the newer generation with game used baseball equipment. Then in a ceremony this summer, Tom Cruise was going to present it as an award to the top recruiter!

I can't wait to be part of it and maybe I can win it!

[Takuleechch]

Isn't this your bat already?
So what happened? Did you finally see the lines a me get your money back? Or do you still not see the lines and have it in your collection?

[TwinLakesPark]

Isn't this your bat already?


Wow, that took you awhile...I was wondering how long it would take you to figure it out....you are a smart one.

[Takuleechch]

Took me less than the amount of time it took you to see the lines under the number on your bat.

[Samets]

Took me less than the amount of time it took you to see the lines under the number on your bat.

Don't talk about the lines, you might get sued...

[chakes89]

So has this been turned into expensive firewood yet?

[Takuleechch]

Don't talk about the lines, you might get sued...

I'm confident that someone who cannot see lines that are blatantly obvious wouldn't be able to put together a comprehensive legal argument about someone (or hundreds of people) who can see them. Hahaha

[TwinLakesPark]

I'm confident that someone who cannot see lines that are blatantly obvious wouldn't be able to put together a comprehensive legal argument about someone (or hundreds of people) who can see them. Hahaha

The fact this is now getting personal is shameful and certainly not the intention of this site.

[Takuleechch]

The fact this is now getting personal is shameful and certainly not the intention of this site.


Says the guy that tried to drag it down to that point

[Takuleechch]

Why don't you just update us all on the best and what's happening to it