Game used Pujols bat.......NOT

[onlyalbert]

http://www.paragonauctionsite.com/LotDetail.aspx?inventoryid=2075

What is wrong with Paragon and Taube? Paragon says he "won two MVP awards in 04 and 08" and Taube gives this bat a 8.5 grade with that red tar on the middle of the handle? I don't get it. Show me another Pujols bat with red tar mid-barrel....and I'll show you a bat used by someone else. C'mon John.....no rubberstamping.

[yanks12025]

Couldn't the tar color just be from the photo?

[onlyalbert]

Couldn't the tar color just be from the photo?

Doubt it. This red colored tar is used by other players on the team...then Berkman and Freese among others. I have a 2011 Berkman playoff bat with the same red tar. If you look at Pujols bats over the years he has favored the caramel colored tar, and you would see it mid-bat up to the center brand. Never in the middle of the handle. This area is always very clean. You can find several examples on here.

[hairyangryfella]

I asked them about their Antoine Walker "2000-01" Celtics jersey -

"I'm just wondering how do you know which year it was worn? The 2000-01 season the Celtics had a black band on the left shoulder which is not present on this jersey. The following year they had what I believe was a 9/11 logo on the right."

I haven't had any response and it has been over a week. I guess the band could have been removed, but it would be nice to have had a reply. Thus I will not be going anywhere near their stuff...

[rj_lucas]

IN MY OPINION, this bat is a joke and proves once again that, for the right price, you can get anything 'authenticated'.

Look at any photo of Albert's tar pattern in 2011. Any photo.

I do not understand how a publicly traded company and its representatives get away with this. At some point, this will end badly for them and their shareholders. It's just a matter of time, IN MY OPINION.

[yanks12025]

Are you guys referring to the photo of just the handle? Does it look like two different bats to anyone, because comparing just the handle photo to the photo of the whole bat, it doesn't look like the tar shows on the full bat photo. But they may have turned the bat in the photo.

[rj_lucas]

Yes, a different angle. And neither bears any resemblance to a Pujols game used bat from 2011 or any other year.

[onlyalbert]

IN MY OPINION, this bat is a joke and proves once again that, for the right price, you can get anything 'authenticated'.

Look at any photo of Albert's tar pattern in 2011. Any photo.

I do not understand how a publicly traded company and its representatives get away with this. At some point, this will end badly for them and their shareholders. It's just a matter of time, IN MY OPINION.

Rick,what do you mean by publicly traded co? Taube?

[onlyalbert]

08,09,10, and 2 2011 playoff bats in order top to bottom. No red tar on these.

[rj_lucas]

Rick,what do you mean by publicly traded co? Taube?

PSA/DNA is a division of Collectors Universe, a NASDAQ company.

Imagine a scenario where a material portion of a publicly traded company's revenues were proven, by virtue of legal action and/or federal investigation, to have resulted from gross negligence (which carries a specific legal definition under tort law).

No mystery really as to the ultimate outcome of such a scenario -- plenty of examples to refer to over the last decade or so.

I'm not suggesting that PSA/DNA or Collector's Universe pose such a scenario. That would be up to an investigator to determine...

[onlyalbert]

I'm sure Nick N will see this post. He got stuck with a PSA/DNA approved non-Pujols bat from GF, and it is a glaring example of a bad bat. And I've seen several other Pujols bats that have been auth. by PSA that are obviously incorrect. Taube has handled literally dozens of Pujols bats in his day. He knows better! I guess it just takes that one person to call them out in the right way.

[rdeversole]

I guess it just takes that one person to call them out in the right way.

Speaking of calling him out the right way, has anybody actually contacted John about this issue?

[joelsabi]

08,09,10, and 2 2011 playoff bats in order top to bottom. No red tar on these.

nice bats. is the gold ring to the left of the label an indicator for older Pujol Marucci bats?

[rj_lucas]

Speaking of calling him out the right way, has anybody actually contacted John about this issue?

I exchanged emails two years ago with John regarding his seeming inability to correctly authenticate an Albert Pujols game used bat.

I provided a detailed breakdown of usage characteristics, including photographs.

[Nnunnari]

Jason knows how I feel about this topic.
When I have time, I'll try to go into a more detailed explanation of how flawed this whole authenticating/grading system is. Ultimately, John is not the problem, the problem is the public taking John's opinion as fact.
There is entirely too much emphasis and credibility awarded to one man's opinion on a given bat.

[onlyalbert]

And if I'm not mistaken doesn't it cost about $200 - $300 plus shipping to get a Pujols bat authenticated? He bases his fee on the perceived value of the bat which I think is wrong. Why is there not a flat fee? Does he work harder on higher end bats? I have noticed a wide range of "grades" on Pujols bats. A 8.5 graded bat will have the same characterisitics as a bat graded 9.5 or 10, and we all want a 10 bat right? The perceived value between a 8.5 and 10 can be thousands of dollars! Lastly, I've seen many PSA loas of Pujols bats and some loas you could put side by side, and only a few words are changed. It's like there is a form already set up for Pujols, go in change a few words, hit print, send invoice.

[onlyalbert]

nice bats. is the gold ring to the left of the label an indicator for older Pujol Marucci bats?

Ya know, I've never noticed that before. Could be. Maybe someone else can chime in on that one. I'm sure it is not a reflection on Pujols bats but all Maruccis.

[ChrisCavalier]

Hello Everyone,

Two quick comments here:

1) I removed a few comments on this thread that were personal in nature and, in my opinion, inconsistent with the rules for posting found here:

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=99

2) I have never known John not to answer a question and i would recommend he be contacted via email since he does not typically post here and it would be to everyones benefit to allow him to answer any questions directly. Anyone can feel free to post his response here after contacting him.

As always, please feel free to let me know if there are any questions and thank you in advance for keeping all future posts in accordance with the forum rules.

Sincerely,
Chris

[onlyalbert]

I have posed my concerns with the bat and the LOA in an e-mail to Paragon. Auction ends soon so we'll see what their response is.

[ChrisCavalier]

I have posed my concerns with the bat and the LOA in an e-mail to Paragon. Auction ends soon so we'll see what their response is.
Thank you for the update Jason.

-Chris

[onlyalbert]

Got a prompt response from Keith Vari of Paragon. He stated he has re-shot the photos and the tar is not red in color. I still don't see it any other way, but the bidders will decide for themselves. Thanks to Keith for addressing the issue promptly. I've purchased from Paragon before and intend to do so in the future.....just not this bat.

[onlyalbert]

Below is the response I received from Keith about my questioning of the bat. Apparently the happiness of the consignor is more important than the happiness of the buyer, and I "killed" the heavy bidding on the bat.

From:Keith (keith.vari@gmail.com)This sender is in your contact list (https://blu177.mail.live.com/Contacts.mvc?SearchEmailKeyword=keith.vari%40gmail .com&n=1091428530).Sent:Thu 4/18/13 8:33 PMTo:No problem. Your post probably killed the bat and consignors is not happy. It tar is not red and if you would of asked before trashing it we might not be in the position we are in. As I said consignors is not happy. Keith

[Birdbats]

It wouldn't matter if the tar was florescent green... it's not in the right place. If this bat was legit, it would be easy enough to photo match since the manufacture date coincides with the 2011 NLCS. Plenty of photos and video of all 24 post-10/9/11 Pujols ABs using this model/finish in the NLCS and World Series.

http://www.usatodaysportsimages.com/image/thumb/600-600/5656502.jpg http://www.usatodaysportsimages.com/image/thumb/600-600/5629310.jpg http://www.usatodaysportsimages.com/image/thumb/600-600/5617302.jpg http://www.usatodaysportsimages.com/image/thumb/600-600/5617254.jpg

[earlywynnfan]

I respect John Taube for doing very quality work, but if it comes to Pujols, I'm not touching one unless I've talked to Birdbats.

Ken

[onlyalbert]

Looks like the bat has been either pulled or withdrawn. Congrats to the lone bidder.

[hairyangryfella]

I asked them about their Antoine Walker "2000-01" Celtics jersey -

"I'm just wondering how do you know which year it was worn? The 2000-01 season the Celtics had a black band on the left shoulder which is not present on this jersey. The following year they had what I believe was a 9/11 logo on the right."

I haven't had any response and it has been over a week. I guess the band could have been removed, but it would be nice to have had a reply. Thus I will not be going anywhere near their stuff...

To their credit they withdrew this Walker and replied to my email.

However, just browsing, I stumbled across these -

http://www.paragonauctionsite.com/LotDetail.aspx?inventoryid=2274
http://www.paragonauctionsite.com/LotDetail.aspx?inventoryid=2275

The Beckenbauer description says it was worn against England and comes with a detailed LOA. The LOA states it was worn against Peru on June 10th 1970.

The Muller description says it was worn against Peru. The LOA states it was worn against Peru on June 10th 1970.

The shirts are different colors.....

[rj_lucas]

Interesting to read Jeff Scott's blog entry of 5/8/13 regarding the 2003 Pujols Sam bat from the current Gray Flannel auction, authenticated by John Taube.

http://webpages.charter.net/birdbats/Birdbats/index.htm

Draw your own conclusion. I won't bother to comment as my post would only be deleted.

[5toolplayer]

I respect John Taube for doing very quality work, but if it comes to Pujols, I'm not touching one unless I've talked to Birdbats.

Ken

+1
Birdbats is the BEST when it comes to anything Pujols