Historic Auctions: Pujols stitching

[kingjammy24]

another member astutely noticed that the stitching on the Pujols jersey in Historic auctions current auction is sewn on top of the seam, rather than inside.

the jersey:

http://www.historicauctions.com/search/list/auctionid/33416/

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/3491/pujolsay6.jpg

see this thread for more details:

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?p=23945

rudy.

[MVP]

Great work Rudy!!!!!!!!!! you have nailed it. I figured they took 0062 tags off of common players jerseys but it looks like they printed copies of (1) 0062 tag with the 0503B2 underneath and attached the to retail jerseys. The pujols, biggio and oswalt are all the same with incorrect stitching.

-Henry

[obeyone10]

Be careful of the Pujols game used bat on Historic. I don't know how PSA authenticated this bat. The knob of the bat looks like it was rubbed against the concrete a dozen times, for all of 4 or 5 ball marks. And what's up with the Delmon Young Xbat Modeled XX where a ## number model should be.?? Just food for thought.
Bryan Oberle
obeyone10@aol.com

[Birdbats]

Be careful of the Pujols game used bat on Historic. I don't know how PSA authenticated this bat.

You should always be careful with pre-2006 Pujols X-Bats, especially those with this particular finish. I'd love to remove that pine tar on the upper handle (which in itself is inconsistent with use by Pujols) just to see if there's a visible void where a Dominican flag used to be...

Jeff
http://www.birdbats.com

[encinorick]

Rudy: Does the tagging on the Nomar jersey in the Historic Autctions auction look correct? thanks.

[kingjammy24]

hi rick,

the wash tag doesn't look incorrectly sewn as it does on the pujols, oswalt, and biggio. however, that's a small piece of the whole puzzle. unfortunately, i don't feel i can fully comment on the garciaparra because current dodger shirts aren't my forte. perhaps there are others here who own 2006 dodger shirts obtained directly from the dodgers who can comment. best to look at a common player to get a sense of how things should look.

personally, i can't think of a worse place to purchase from than asi/historic/brad wells/james brown. if you're seriously in the market for a 2006 road garciaparra then as luck would have it, rob steinmetz seems to have one in his inventory:

http://www.authenticgamers.com/nomar.06.rj.html

[i should point out i have absolutely no interest or association with rob's company or with that jersey.] notice the tagging on rob's '06 road garciaparra is different than the one in historic auctions. while rob's jersey may be more expensive than the one on historic, i think the issue comes down to whether your intent is to build a quality collection or a cheap collection. if you emailed rob, i'm sure he'd share his knowledge of 06 dodger gamers.

rudy.

[jessicawinters]

The seller is CLEARLY applying manufactured 0062 tags onto retail jerseys. I don't even believe that these tags were from common players. They seemed to be custom maded. Notice the numbers below the "0062" from both the Astros and Detroit jerseys. They are the same numbers 0503B2. These tags seem to come from the same printing. It would be highly unlikely that one seller would have two jerseys from different teams with the same coding.

There is no credit for this seller. It is an absolute fraud. This seller makes the people that make blank gamers into star gamers look like saints. At least those jerseys at some point had belong to the teams.

Any time you see any extra stitching on these tags, then there must be credible suspicion that they have been tampered with.

This fraudulent technique is actually poor. I have seen one jersey that had the stitching completely taken apart on one side and then restitched with the 0062 tag. Only if you look closely, you will see parts of the old stitch marks.
http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/images/buttons/quote.gif (http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=24082)

[kingjammy24]

maybe it's just me but i've enhanced this photo to help make the stitching more visible. it seems like the stitching above the year/size flag tags is noticeably different than the stitching on the other four sides. almost as if that portion of stitching had been taken out and re-sewn. the stitching is done by a machine hence it's usually straight and even, with each stitch the same size. the stitching portion at the bottom appears crooked.

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/9671/stitkw4.jpg

rudy.

[encinorick]

Thanks Rudy, my sentiments exactly. Based on your excellent research, the question is whether all these items with the same problems in the same auction, consigned and authenticed by the same people, is a coincidence or an indication of a broad conspiracy to defraud similiar to the infamous Operation Bullpen. You will recall that Historic has, to coin a phrase, a history of these types of problems as indicated by the questions raised in its last auction. Who's gonna make the telephone call?

[kingjammy24]

not bad. someone's about to pay over $2k for this pujols with an incorrectly sewn wash tag. the funny thing is, it certainly can't be said that the tag was a surprise. historic showed a huge pic of it, plain as day.

http://www.historicauctions.com/search/list/auctionid/33416/

rudy.

[bigjimsguitars]

The wash tag number is incidental to the fact that it is sewn incorrectly on the top!!!! It's obvious that someone is flooding the market with this crap in the hopes of catching newbies with their pants down to their ankles....

What gets me is that these so called auction houses need to ferret this stuff out and those who submit it to them.

The best way is to boycott the auction houses/sites that do not police themselves...even if they may have some legitimate stuff.

Another thought, pool some money and send them certified letters that presents a fact based account of what is suspect in their auctions and if the items in question still go on the auction block then present the facts to the proper authorities and media.

Sounds harsh, not really when you consider the full picture!

[worldchamps]

What I don't understand is when these jerseys pop up in these auctions, why don't the houses go after the consignors????

Why don't they publish a list of these guys or go after them

........unless they are in business with them?????

[bigjimsguitars]

What I don't understand is when these jerseys pop up in these auctions, why don't the houses go after the consignors????

Why don't they publish a list of these guys or go after them

........unless they are in business with them?????

There were a couple of items that were questionable in the October 2007 GUU auction that were pulled to preserve the integrity of the auction as a whole and the auction went on and by all accounts was a smashing success. Moreover, I for one loved the fact that I could place a ceiling/proxy bid that in the end went for less that said ceiling/proxy bid.

Sure, I got out-gunned on a couple of items, and that's the way it should be, win some, lose some. But at the end of the day so to speak, I knew that my bids were not inflated by shill bidding that seems to be the norm at some auctions.

More to the point, the out of pocket ancillary fees, and premiums were more than fair with the GUU auction.

The point I making is that it is evident that one can run a clean, ethical and fair auction and every one can walk away a winner.

I certainly would consign with GUU knowing that they can draw competitive bids, charge a nominal fee for their services and provide a level of comfort for all concerns, e.g., that what is being offered has been checked out and vetted by unbiased experts.

Frankly, I don't understand why anyone would want to go through the uncertainty and high fees with the other auction sites, unless it was for an exceptional item that is jake (the real deal).

Look, I'm not condemning all auction houses as there are many legitimate ones out there, but just after me spending a few months hanging around this place it has become apparent that not all are created equal!!!

[kingjammy24]

What I don't understand is when these jerseys pop up in these auctions, why don't the houses go after the consignors????

Why don't they publish a list of these guys or go after them

........unless they are in business with them?????

historic was created and founded by brad wells who's also the founder and president of ASI. some of historic's earlier auctions saw items with ASI stickers. oh i forgot to mention, brad wells also briefly started an authentication service called "Expert Authentication" where he was the "head authenticator". their first (and only contract)? authenticating for historic of course! after historic's last auction ended, several of the items that "sold" were later auctioned off again by ASI on ebay. brad probably thought he was really clever consigning his own items, authenticating them, and running them in his own auction house. most auction houses pay for authentications. not historic/brad wells though! maybe he figured if he started his own service (which oddly enough never had any other client other than Historic) then brad wouldn't have to pay any authentication fees. cha-ching! not to mention that he wouldn't exactly reject his own items. i guess he also thought paying seller fees was stupid because he opened his own auction house where he could dump all of his own items and avoid seller fees! a brad wells-owned item, authenticated by brad wells authentication, in a brad wells auction house. brilliant.

bernie gernay of PSI got in on the action early as an authenticator for GAI and once GAI found out these guys were authenticating their own pieces, bernie mysteriously was no longer working for GAI and GAI cancelled their work for historic in mid-auction! see here for details:
http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=2954

for more on the historic/ASI/expert lovefest:
http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=4732

sometimes the consigners genuinely don't know they're offering garbage. they think their items are legit and are genuinely surprised to learn their item isn't good. other times, the auction houses are making money by selling this garbage so they're not going to go after their "supply".

rudy.