Greed in this hobby

[hairyangryfella]

I have a fairly low opinion of people like jtnbafan - those who don't give anybody else a chance to pick up something they may truly love, just because they can afford any amount of money on an item.

I have just discovered a seller on ebay called zeppelin780 - as I recognized a whole bunch of his items from the recent Grey Flannel and Juliens Elgin Baylor auctions.

Looks like this guy just bought a bunch of stuff to list on ebay at inflated prices - eg this Amare jersey won for $389 http://catalog.greyflannelauctions.com/LotDetail.aspx?lotid=30114&searchby=0&searchvalue=None&page=0&sortby=0&displayby=2&lotsperpage=ALL&category=33&seo=2003-04-Amare-Stoudemire-Phoenix-Suns-Game-Used-Home-Jersey

listed for $1650
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2003-04-Amare-Stoudemire-Phoenix-Suns-Game-Used-Home-Jersey-/350824153573?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item51aebfc1e5

And many other examples.

Is the time of the regular fan buying an item they like gone because it's now the time of other people making money?

Guess I'm lucky to own what I do, because in the current state of affairs it looks like I wouldn't have a chance.

Is this ruining the hobby, or is it just someone being clever and seeing an opportunity to possibly make some money?

[Mulligans]

Interesting opinion.....I find that far worst than the GREED in the hobby is the JEALOUSY.

[hairyangryfella]

Interesting opinion.....I find that far worst than the GREED in the hobby is the JEALOUSY.

If you're trying to have a go at me, what exactly am I jealous of? I'd love a Lebron jersey but I could never afford it. But what about people like Chris who really want a Chalmers jersey but some guy gets it no matter what the price, as well as every single other jersey....
I had zero interest in that Amare, I couldn't tell if it were legit or not. Yet I'm "jealous" that this guy bought it and is listing it for a big markup? Ok.....

[toddhead]

Ugh... I had a bad feeling about this post just by reading the title. If someone has worked hard enough to have the resources to purchase the things he wants then why should anyone begrudge that person?

I agree with Mulligans on this one... jealousy seems to be the dominate force in this hobby.

[hairyangryfella]

Fine, so buying a whole bunch of items for the sole purpose of making a profit on them is accepted on this "collector's" forum... even if people who might have actually wanted them for their collection weren't able to get them because of this person...

[Tunis]

I guess if someone wanted that Amare jersey they could have just outbid the seller in the original auction......
or
Make an offer less than what he is asking.

There is no guarantee that the seller will get what he is asking. None of our business what he paid for it.

[cohibasmoker]

Fine, so buying a whole bunch of items for the sole purpose of making a profit on them is accepted on this "collector's" forum... even if people who might have actually wanted them for their collection weren't able to get them because of this person...

So what's your point? Do you want to "occupy" the hobby and this forum?

Just an opinion.

[hairyangryfella]

I guess if someone wanted that Amare jersey they could have just outbid the seller in the original auction......
or
Make an offer less than what he is asking.

There is no guarantee that the seller will get what he is asking. None of our business what he paid for it.

That Amare is just one example - but he won so many items from each of the auctions, now listed on ebay, it just seems like pure greed to me. And from memory I once tried to negotiate for a card that this guy had listed on ebay and he wouldn't go anywhere near a reasonable offer...

I'm very big on morals, and I just don't like this. I'm also relatively new to the hobby though so maybe there isn't any room for them with game used items...

[hairyangryfella]

So what's your point? Do you want to "occupy" the hobby and this forum?

Just an opinion.

I don't understand what this means.

I was speaking out against something that seemed kind of against the spirit of game used collecting - buying up large amounts of items and trying to flip them for profit at high prices, outbidding somebody who may have really wanted one but couldn't afford it on the original auction because of this person's attempts to profit.

I see it so much with cards I wanted to know how this hobby felt about it. Looks like you guys don't give a damn. So be it.

[ctguy212003]

I don't understand what this means.

I was speaking out against something that seemed kind of against the spirit of game used collecting - buying up large amounts of items and trying to flip them for profit at high prices, outbidding somebody who may have really wanted one but couldn't afford it on the original auction because of this person's attempts to profit.

I see it so much with cards I wanted to know how this hobby felt about it. Looks like you guys don't give a damn. So be it.

If you want the item that bad pay the inflated price. Or do you treasure your money collection just as much?? Can't have your cake and eat it to. We're a capitalism type society so if someone can make a sound investment then more power to them. Some times over paying and holding will still bring value years later

[hairyangryfella]

If you want the item that bad pay the inflated price. Or do you treasure your money collection just as much?? Can't have your cake and eat it to. We're a capitalism type society so if someone can make a sound investment then more power to them. Some times over paying and holding will still bring value years later

You're missing the point - I don't want the items. I just see the type of practices from the basketball card 'hobby' coming into this one, and don't like it. Yet you all seem fine with it.

[nycpropain]

You're missing the point - I don't want the items. I just see the type of practices from the basketball card 'hobby' coming into this one, and don't like it. Yet you all seem fine with it.

And in the end you can do nothing about it but stomp your feet online.

[CPuente57]

This is kind of the same boat as this topic, As an NBA Collector, the only thing that frustrates me is the chance of ever winning anything special like a Finals Jersey or an All Star Jersey is basically nil because guys like JTNBAfan or now this new guy Stageleft have what it seems no real max on how high they are willing to go on items. The prices for the NBA Finals Auctions were insane..$2 grand for an issued Jarvis Vernado Jersey??? 6 grand for Mario Chalmers?? You simply cannot outbid these guys ever. Now at the same time, who am I to tell them how they can spend their money?? I think i've read here that JTNBAFan is an actual real collector who really loves the NBA and this hobby so honestly good for him that he's got the resources to grab whatever he wants. Who's to say if I was in that position I wouldn't do the same? Now I do question why he needs to buy every single superstar jersey (especially like the preseason gamers a few months ago..he couldn't let THAT Lebron go??? There were no special patches or anything..regular preseason gamer that they wore in China) but overall it is what it is..I'm sure MLB or NFL have those guys as well.

[yanks12025]

I know if I had won that 600 million powerball, that I'd be buying EVERY high price baseball jersey or bat. Probably even try to buy the hall of fame.:D

[marino13]

I know if I had won that 600 million powerball, that I'd be buying EVERY high price baseball jersey or bat. Probably even try to buy the hall of fame.:D

+1

I would purchase the Marlins and keep all the visiting team equipment when they drop by! :D

[cohibasmoker]

+1

I would purchase the Marlins and keep all the visiting team equipment when they drop by! :D

The way I see it, can't afford an item? There are two (2) options - work a little harder to make more cash or simply prioritize you spending. As for the Powerball thing, I'd buy an Aston Martin and a membership into Netjets. The NetJet thing would enable me to fly around the world with the Hollywood liberal elites. I would really like to hang out around the French Riviera with Streisand and Spielberg.

Jim

[timb69]

Here is my take. I am a collector. I love to collect. There are 2 sides to this hobby. A collector, and a seller. We collect, they SELL to make MONEY. If I was a seller, and had a hot item I got for cheap, and knew I could triple my money, by all means I'll list it for triple my cost to make money. People who want the item, will buy if they want it, or not buy it. Supply and demand. You're confusing the SELLING part to make money as part of the hobby.

[Scotchorama]

As I see it, buyers who want to make a profit can only go so high. If they really want to make a profit, they need to list the item at a "saleable" price. So such a buyer won't outbid a true collector ready to pay the price for a rare item. Simple rule of supply and demand.

[GoTigers]

Maybe you should go find some homeless and hungry children and tell them your terrible plight. I think you'd be surprised at who they call greedy.

If you're "big on morality", maybe you should do some more research as to what that means... Because this is just jealousy and whining.

[frikativ54]

Ugh... I had a bad feeling about this post just by reading the title. If someone has worked hard enough to have the resources to purchase the things he wants then why should anyone begrudge that person?


So everybody who has money works hard for it? Last time I checked, plenty of people end up wealthy through inheritance. A lot of our financial state is due to pure luck, plain and simple.

Also, I find it disgusting the way people have jumped all over the OP. It's his opinion, and he has a right to it. Without being accused of being an Occupier. He simply shared his thoughts.

[commando]

The people who used the phrase "supply and demand" are the ones who get it. If you're winning Grey Flannel auctions, in my opinion, you're probably not stealing the items -- in other words, plenty of collectors are seeing these items and having the chance to bid if interested. If someone thinks they can win several GF auctions, pay the hammer fees, then resell the items at a 3X markup, they will soon learn an expensive lesson.

Sure, you can get lucky and occasionally find a buyer with cash to burn who HAS to have your item... But as a seller myself, I know you can't build a steady, consistent business this way. You ESPECIALLY don't want to be left holding newer "hot" items for long, as the interest of potential buyers will fade over time.

I hear what you're saying, but if I were you I'd keep an eye on this guy and see what he actually sells. Down the road he'll probably be trying to break even on most of his items.

[packfan84]

I can see both points of views on this. I find myself frustrated when I lose out on something on MLB Auctions to the same guy and then see it up on eBay in a couple of weeks for twice the price and continue to see it listed over a year later.

The theory I have for this is the guy is a seller/collector and has the item in their own collection, and if someone wants to overpay for it that wants it more, then that is his price he will let it go for.

The other theory is they are just a seller and looking to build inventory. Like the poster above said, building your inventory through places like Grey Flannel and MLB Auctions is not the most economical way and will eventually be stuck with a hefty inventory. Maybe then, we will be able to pick them up for a better price when they need to dump it.

Also, some of these eBay guys may actually have physical store locations. I see it all the time with autographs, there is a place in the Bay Area that sell JT Snow baseball for $150. Anyone in the hobby knows that is a monster rip off, but if you are lolly gagging around one day and not a savvy collector, you might jump at that. If someone not familiar with the hobby walked in and saw that Amare on the wall, they might just be blown away that they could afford such a piece, especially since the only time they ever hear about game worn items are on the news when the historic pieces fetch monster prices. Then they buy it.

When I first got into Game Used stuff, I was shocked that you could buy a game worn jersey for less than an authentic store model, regardless of the player. Now I know that is not the case.

[frikativ54]

That Amare is just one example - but he won so many items from each of the auctions, now listed on ebay, it just seems like pure greed to me. And from memory I once tried to negotiate for a card that this guy had listed on ebay and he wouldn't go anywhere near a reasonable offer...

To be honest, with some of these people, it is pure greed. They have to have everything of a certain player or team, and it looks like their mommies never taught them how to share. In a word, they are not collectors but hoarders.

And those dealer types who just swoop up an item to flip drive me crazy. Especially when I wanted that item as a collector. Yeah, I have picked up an item or two for investment purposes, but the majority of my collection is for my enjoyment. And I guess that a lot of us collectors are in the same boat.


I'm very big on morals, and I just don't like this. I'm also relatively new to the hobby though so maybe there isn't any room for them with game used items...

As you should be. Sadly, connections, favoritism, and backdoor dealing dominate this hobby. People often benefit more from whom they know, rather than who they are and their character. It's the sorry state of this hobby and the reason why a lot of people are getting out.

The constant competition, the whose collection is bigger mentality drives me - and others like me - away from the hobby. It's as if some of these people believe that they are better, because of what they own. But you can't go into the grave with your collections; people are ultimately remembered, because of their character. If this is any consolation...

[Phil316]

Bottom line is that if you pick up something on the cheap via ebay, auction houses ect its yours do what you want.

That person shelled out 360 for an Amare that is not even legit and is trying to flip it who cares. You get what you pay for remember that.

[jppopma]

I agree that it rubs me the wrong way to see someone buy an item and put it up quickly for a huge profit. Does it sell for that or not is the question. Still bothers me since ya know these are the turds that will hoard and push you out of the way at team sales.

I have no problem with people being able to bid more than I can afford or want something more than me. That is all about supply and demand and in the end, we can hope that their higher bids will trickle down into higher prices on items in our collections.

If you want to talk about greed...I would look at some of the teams seller their own stuff. Higher prices, less wear has been the theme for years now...add in sloppy descriptions and errors and you can see that its only about the money for them. You can't really argue supply and demand when they have full control over the supply and nobody can ever come close to selling items for the same prices the teams demand.

My.02

[slats7]

It's sad that the true collectors are crowded out by the "for profit" guys, who then hold said items hostage for exorbitant prices. When I see the same football helmet showing up at five different auction houses, I think to myself, "Doesn't anyone want this thing just to enjoy and cherish? Why is it always passed around like a Christmas fruitcake?"

[woodward30]

If you're trying to "buy low, sell high", I wouldn't advise Grey Flannel being the place to look to "buy low." That seller quickly will learn his lesson. While I certainly understand and respect the OP's opinion, I find myself in the "it's his money and if he can make a profit, more power to him" camp.

[Mark17]

If you're trying to "buy low, sell high", I wouldn't advise Grey Flannel being the place to look to "buy low." That seller quickly will learn his lesson. While I certainly understand and respect the OP's opinion, I find myself in the "it's his money and if he can make a profit, more power to him" camp.

+1

Here's an experiment we can all try at home. Put one of your decent items up for sale, and when a dealer offers $2,000 and a guy who says he's a collector offers $700, see who you sell it to.

I think it's silly when people who want to pay less for stuff try to claim some sort of moral high ground simply because they are a "collector." You don't (and shouldn't) get things in life based simply on desire.

[tella27]

In its simplest form - when a person buys something that item now belongs to them. They should be able to do what ever they want with it - if trying to sell for a profit is what they want to do who is anyone to tell them they shouldn't do it. The people that complain about this are just flat out jealous of what someone else has. I could care less if someone buys one of my items and sells it for a profit - if anything it makes me feel that I underestimated the market on it. If someone makes money on something more power to them. Why hate on them enough to start a thread - it makes you sound childish. No one ever buys something just so they can sell it for less money... Demand creates value - its their money they are risking.

[woodward30]

In its simplest form - when a person buys something that item now belongs to them. They should be able to do what ever they want with it - if trying to sell for a profit is what they want to do who is anyone to tell them they shouldn't do it. The people that complain about this are just flat out jealous of what someone else has. I could care less if someone buys one of my items and sells it for a profit - if anything it makes me feel that I underestimated the market on it. If someone makes money on something more power to them. Why hate on them enough to start a thread - it makes you sound childish. No one ever buys something just so they can sell it for less money... Demand creates value - its their money they are risking.
Exactly. The dealer assumes risk when purchasing the jersey in hopes of selling it at a higher price. If the dealer is unable to sell it at a higher price, they'll eventually concede to selling it at a lower (or equal) price at which they bought it, since they have no have no interest in keeping the jersey for collection purposes.

It's just capitalism in its simplest form.

[astros5.7]

To me, the main problem in this hobby is fraud, not flipping items. If you have ever bought an item and sold it for profit, then you flipped it. To act like you are different because you don't do this as often, or you feel like you do this for a more noble reason is a joke. Also, anyone who attempts to flip an item is taking a risk; who knows if they will be successful or turn a profit.

Getting back to what I feel is the main problem...people selling bad, faked, or forged items. A lot of people on this forum are happy to call out an individual for selling bad items, yet a month later they are right back to buying and selling with the person who was caught forging. Apparently it is "immoral" to flip items, but perfectly acceptable to buy and sell with thieves as long as they have the item wanted or the cash needed.

Any time you do business with someone known to sell forged merchandise, you are perpetuating their business and fraudulent activities. So instead of criticizing those who flip items, which is perfectly legal, how about taking a real stand and not doing business with known thieves.

[slats7]

dalcowbill is one of the worst "profiteers." Just pay me almost four times what I shelled out for it and it's yours!

http://sports.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=151217&lotIdNo=21005

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DALLAS-COWBOYS-STEVE-WILSON-BAD-LUCK-BLUE-GAME-USED-GAME-WORN-JERSEY-/380432549335?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item58938c05d7

[hairyangryfella]

Good to see that there are some varying opinions about this kind of stuff...

I also find it quite amusing that his item description is just that from the auction, no effort put in at all :p

[jppopma]

For those of you who think business is business, I look forward to hearing back from you after being burned by one of these people. I've had someone do a lowball back door deal on ebay and then turn right around and try to sell it to me for 3 times what the auction was at (almost double the "value" also). I've also had my kids trampled and push out of the way by these type, only to see the same jersey they needed SOOO bad listed on ebay 2 days later.

Not jealous at all, and there are plenty of other jerseys in the sea...but I can't get over how many people have no decency and how many others condone their acts as being "business"

[Mark17]

For those of you who think business is business, I look forward to hearing back from you after being burned by one of these people. I've had someone do a lowball back door deal on ebay and then turn right around and try to sell it to me for 3 times what the auction was at (almost double the "value" also).


Can you please explain to me, in this scenario, how you got "burned"?

You seem to think you had some sort of moral claim to whatever item you are talking about. How does that work? If the asking price was too high, turn down the offer.

[tella27]

For those of you who think business is business, I look forward to hearing back from you after being burned by one of these people. I've had someone do a lowball back door deal on ebay and then turn right around and try to sell it to me for 3 times what the auction was at (almost double the "value" also). I've also had my kids trampled and push out of the way by these type, only to see the same jersey they needed SOOO bad listed on ebay 2 days later.

Not jealous at all, and there are plenty of other jerseys in the sea...but I can't get over how many people have no decency and how many others condone their acts as being "business"

I don't think you can group together selling an item for profit and having no respect or common courtesy towards other people. I've met collectors that never sell anything but try and lowball everyone over every item. Every person is different in they way they handle things. Everyone keeps coming back to saying someone tried to sell them something for twice as much as it sold for and so on. Where do you get off telling someone that just because they paid "x" amount for something that's the price they have to sell it to you for? This is such a joke - if you don't like the price don't buy. Don't be mad at someone because they found a deal on an item that you wish you had come across first. The hunt is part of the fun - when you find something that was a great deal is an awesome feeling. So many haters - if you don't like the price move on and keep looking. If its a rare item its going to cost more - its up to the buyer to decide if that price matches how much they want an item. I've over paid for items that I really wanted.. Supply and demand..

[woodward30]

For those of you who think business is business, I look forward to hearing back from you after being burned by one of these people. I've had someone do a lowball back door deal on ebay and then turn right around and try to sell it to me for 3 times what the auction was at (almost double the "value" also). I've also had my kids trampled and push out of the way by these type, only to see the same jersey they needed SOOO bad listed on ebay 2 days later.

Not jealous at all, and there are plenty of other jerseys in the sea...but I can't get over how many people have no decency and how many others condone their acts as being "business"
Burned? You committed to the seller's price? Unless the item turns out to be fake, how are you being burned here? You agreed to the seller's price.

[philliephyl]

Something that I have seen a couple of times is guys buy something with vague history of item and then turn to sell it with a very detailed history but no proof.

like I saw a juan castro phillies road jersey sold as mlb authenticated as team issued. it was from 2011. he made the last out in roy halladay's perfect game. There's a chance that could have been the jersey since he was only a phillie for like a month. but then it got turned and the new seller said it was no doubt worn in that game. Wouldn't give out the mlb authenticated number, and kept saying he bought it in a special phillies auction that was just items from roy halladay's perfect game. and of course the guy lost his receipt and all the paperwork about this special auction.

[woodward30]

An example of a dealer finding an opportunity and flipping for a huge profit. Say what you want about jerseys4thewin, but I would have done the same thing as he did, but I was like 30 minutes too late to the original auction. jerseys4thewin beat me to it.

Original seller didn't fully know the value of the item and offered this 1970 Phillies game used flannel for $70 Buy It Now.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Authentic-vintage-Phillies-44-Game-Used-Worn-HomeJersey-/290925573923?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43bc83f723&nma=true&si=83toTNgxKqvq82YFhQuuY437%252F28%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

jerseys4thewin sold it for $1275 (over a 1800% return).

http://www.ebay.com/itm/GAME-USED-WORN-JOHNNY-BRIGGS-PHILADELPHIA-PHILLIES-1970-WILSON-JERSEY-SET-2-RARE-/140996359328?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20d409b4a0&nma=true&si=83toTNgxKqvq82YFhQuuY437%252F28%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

Just someone taking advantage of an opportunity. Nothing greedy about it.

[arjos]

I am on your side Hairy guy. here is a good example: Ever time I try to buy GU items from the S.F. Giants GU online service someone always beats me to the good stuff. It is suppose to be first come first serve but no matter how fast I put out my email, it is never fast enough. And where do a lot of these items end up? You guessed it EBAY! If you want an item for your collection and you can afford more then me then more power to you. but just grabbing everything for greed sake just doesn't sit right with me either. I'm not interested in what things are worth just in the joy of collecting. If your just a middle man that I got no love for ya.

[arjos]

good point Astros 5.7. while I don't care for the greed of some people the fraudulent ones are the worst of the worst. All I ask for is to get what I pay for. Those people are ruining a great hobby

[yanks12025]

An example of a dealer finding an opportunity and flipping for a huge profit. Say what you want about jerseys4thewin, but I would have done the same thing as he did, but I was like 30 minutes too late to the original auction. jerseys4thewin beat me to it.

Original seller didn't fully know the value of the item and offered this 1970 Phillies game used flannel for $70 Buy It Now.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Authentic-vintage-Phillies-44-Game-Used-Worn-HomeJersey-/290925573923?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43bc83f723&nma=true&si=83toTNgxKqvq82YFhQuuY437%252F28%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

jerseys4thewin sold it for $1275 (over a 1800% return).

http://www.ebay.com/itm/GAME-USED-WORN-JOHNNY-BRIGGS-PHILADELPHIA-PHILLIES-1970-WILSON-JERSEY-SET-2-RARE-/140996359328?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20d409b4a0&nma=true&si=83toTNgxKqvq82YFhQuuY437%252F28%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

Just someone taking advantage of an opportunity. Nothing greedy about it.


Man that was a great steal.

[beaglegypsy003]

I collect what I enjoy. Even if it is a common and I want it for my collection, I may pay a price that another may see as outrageous. I rarely sell anything but I do trade with other collectors. The price I pay is what I can afford or in some cases how bad I want it. That is my choice. I once made an offer on a common player jersey. I was turned down and given a counter offer which I thought was too high. After several months the jersey still hasn't sold and he is now asking less than what I offered. I've since moved on to other purchases and it is still on ebay.

[toddhead]

So everybody who has money works hard for it? Last time I checked, plenty of people end up wealthy through inheritance. A lot of our financial state is due to pure luck, plain and simple...

That is why I mentioned only those who work hard for their money. Please feel free to jump all over those who "lucked" into it...

[metsbats]

There certainly are a lot of dealers (and wannabe dealers) out there buying (or sniping) ebay items only to relist them a week or so later at bloated prices. I've had this happen to me a few times too. I don't consider this wrong as it free enterprise. Sure I would have loved to have that bat for $400 in my collection but instead see it listed on ebay for $2400 or best offer for the last year with no bites. Sometimes sniping pays but not all the time for the dealer. Is it annoying yes but it's the playing field we play on.

[metsbats]

"I spoke to someone today at Citi Field that works Security there and they told me that for the Three Day's for the All Star Events
(Sun.Futures Game, Mon. Home Run Durby & Tues. All Star Game)
Parking will be 35.00 per Car
I'm told it's 20.00 a Car now"


I just got this in an email from a fellow Met fan.

This is the type of greed that is wrong in our hobby too.

[Phil316]

Any time you do business with someone known to sell forged merchandise, you are perpetuating their business and fraudulent activities. So instead of criticizing those who flip items, which is perfectly legal, how about taking a real stand and not doing business with known thieves.

Amen

[cohibasmoker]

So everybody who has money works hard for it? Last time I checked, plenty of people end up wealthy through inheritance. A lot of our financial state is due to pure luck, plain and simple.

Also, I find it disgusting the way people have jumped all over the OP. It's his opinion, and he has a right to it. Without being accused of being an Occupier. He simply shared his thoughts.

Jumped all over the OP? We don't have opinions to share?

As for wealthy inheriting their money, I've attached an interesting article. All the folks I know who have a few bucks earn it - they work 16 hour days, miss graduations, Little League and soccer games and some go to bed at 8:00 at night because they have to go to work at 04:00 hours. Others spend half their lives on an airplane away from their families.

Luck? Luck are the folks who stay home and whine that they aren't getting their fair share.

Just a couple of opinions

http://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/real-1-percent

[beaglegypsy003]

I snipe as much as possible on ebay. It doesn't make sense to me putting in an early bid when you don't have to. It's done all within the rules of the game and when I do, I place an up to bid which is what I think it is worth to me and what I can afford. If somebody bids higher, I can't do anything about that and I just move on. Sometimes it ends up as a blessing in disguise and I run across something that I really want and wouldn't be able to buy if I had won the previous item.

[solarlottry]

"Cohibasmoker" great article that you posted. It really puts things into a different perspective and one that needs to be heard.

I think there are multiple issues at play in this post. The OP commented about "JTnbafan" as well as individuals who flip items for profit. Personally I wish I had the $$$ that "JTnbafan" has and was able to add to my collection at will. There are times when I become frustrated that there is someone else out there with more means to add to their collections than myself. That is life though and we have no control over what other collectors do and how they spend their money. Obviously JT wanted to add the Chalmers to his collection as did another collector as they both bid the shirt up to 6000$. Whatever their reasons were, they had every right to bid whatever they wished as the shirt was sold via NBAAuctions. Just because another fan/collector really wanted it does not mean that they are entitled to it. That's why it was sold at auction.

There have been many items I have missed out on because someone bid more. That is the way it goes. If I absolutely had to have the item I should have bid higher. There have been multiple instances where I have greatly overpaid for a 49er gamer because it fit into my collection nicely. I was not thrilled to overpay but once the shirt arrived, it's cost became irrelevant. Many of the items I have overpaid for are critical pieces of my collection and if someone offered what I paid I would not sell.

As for the flippers they are an inherent part of any collectable hobby. I am always on the lookout for quality items that I might sell but 99% of the time I keep what I buy. I think that if any of us saw a bargain and knew they could resist it and make a hefty profit, we would.

The winner of the Goldin Auctions Joe Montana KC shirt is a good example of this. The winner thought that the Grey Flannel hammer price was a bargain and now the shirt is listed on eBay for 35K! If it does not sell they could potentially lose serious cash. Risk goes with the territory.

No one likes to lose out on items that we would love to add to our collections but losing out from time to time is a fact of life (maybe not for JTnbafan!). It just makes the good score that much sweeter.

Always buying 49er game worn jerseys
Paul
garciajones@yahoo.com

[hairyangryfella]

Luck? Luck are the folks who stay home and whine that they aren't getting their fair share.


Who exactly is doing that?

I have a full time job. I save up and buy what I can afford. I've even had to sell off some of my cherished items to fund things I have to pay for. I don't "stay home and whine". I just don't like seeing people taking advantage - I know people who wanted certain items but to then see one person buy them all up to list for much higher prices (is happening on NBA auctions a little too) is worrying me, because this kind of behaviour ruins hobbies. It becomes a business, rather than a hobby and it becomes all about profit, rather than people having a chance to buy something they would treasure.

[cliffjmp33]

Very fine line with this topic, and I agree, everyone is entitled to their opinions.

I have a question before I give my opinion. For the NBA collectors, or those "in the know", do the items JTNBAFAN buys/wins ever come back on the market? Just curious as I am not familiar with NBA items that well.

To the point in general, my feeling is that I am human and I'll get annoyed/mad if I lose out on an item I truly like. However, when it comes to auction items I'll set a maximum I'm willing to pay and should the item go past that and I lose, so be it. If it goes to astronomic numbers, it's easier to get over the loss. If it's fairly close to my budget that an item goes for, I'll kick and scream to myself, but, again, I get over it. In the end, I'm not going to allow myself to worry about paying bills on time for my favorite hobby.

I am happy with my collection and can honestly say with thanks to fellow members here I have added a couple of "holy grail" type items to my collection and they have been very fair in dealings and that has made my enjoyment in the hobby, and this community, that much better.

Collecting is enjoyable and maddening. But I know, no matter what, in the end, none of us are taking any of our collections with us.

[Mark17]

Who exactly is doing that?

I have a full time job. I save up and buy what I can afford. I've even had to sell off some of my cherished items to fund things I have to pay for. I don't "stay home and whine". I just don't like seeing people taking advantage - I know people who wanted certain items but to then see one person buy them all up to list for much higher prices (is happening on NBA auctions a little too) is worrying me, because this kind of behaviour ruins hobbies. It becomes a business, rather than a hobby and it becomes all about profit, rather than people having a chance to buy something they would treasure.

What you're saying is that you wish you could buy things at a price lower than what someone else was willing to pay. I guess all of us would like that arrangement from time to time, but I think most people realize that's not how it works.

I can just see an auction house telling a consigner: "Yeah, we could've sold your jersey for $5,000, but there's this collector who really, really wanted it for his collection, so we let him have it for $2500. We felt since he was a collector, he shouldn't have to bid competitively against the guy who is just a greedy dealer."

[BamaHater]

The thing that really bothers me is when some one tries to sell something on Ebay for a high price say $800 for a common player MLB jersey and it does not sell and they keep listing it for $800 3, 4, 5 times in a row. You would think that after the 1st few times an item was listed you drop the price to get it sold. If it did not sell at a starting bid of $800 what makes you think the 5th time you list it at $800 it will be any different. Why would a buyer be inclined to bid on an item that went unsold 5 times in a row at the same high price. This is what really bothers me.

[Mark17]

The thing that really bothers me is when some one tries to sell something on Ebay for a high price say $800 for a common player MLB jersey and it does not sell and they keep listing it for $800 3, 4, 5 times in a row. You would think that after the 1st few times an item was listed you drop the price to get it sold. If it did not sell at a starting bid of $800 what makes you think the 5th time you list it at $800 it will be any different. Why would a buyer be inclined to bid on an item that went unsold 5 times in a row at the same high price. This is what really bothers me.

Why does it bother you? Why does it even matter to you?

[hairyangryfella]

What you're saying is that you wish you could buy things at a price lower than what someone else was willing to pay. I guess all of us would like that arrangement from time to time, but I think most people realize that's not how it works.

I can just see an auction house telling a consigner: "Yeah, we could've sold your jersey for $5,000, but there's this collector who really, really wanted it for his collection, so we let him have it for $2500. We felt since he was a collector, he shouldn't have to bid competitively against the guy who is just a greedy dealer."

No, that's not what I'm saying.
Why can't you guys understand that this isn't about ME? I'm not in a position to buy stuff at the moment anyway. It's about what is happening with the 'hobby' becoming 'a business' and the behaviour of people.

[woodward30]

No, that's not what I'm saying.
Why can't you guys understand that this isn't about ME? I'm not in a position to buy stuff at the moment anyway. It's about what is happening with the 'hobby' becoming 'a business' and the behaviour of people.

But you can continue being ignorant if you want......
You're using the word "hobby" rather loosely. This isn't fishing where you have the freedom to drive down to the lake and throw your pole in whenever you wish. Game used memorabilia is a business. It's a competitive market characterized by supply and demand. Dealers and re-sellers assume risk when buying an item with the hope of selling it to make a profit. The item is owned by the dealer and thus they have every right to list an item at whatever price they wish and also have the right to try to sell it at their desired price for however long they wish. This is the basic principles of capitalism.

[CPuente57]

For me personally, it's not that I feel entitled to get stuff cheap because I'm a collector, the only frustration I have is knowing you have no shot at the opportunity at a lot of the NBA Stuff. The finals jerseys for example, the guy that won (and JTNBAFan) seemed like he had no limit on what he was willing to spend. For example the Jarvis Vernado Game Issued Jersey for 2 grand, he would've kept building that up until he won period. Again, there's nothing wrong with it, if I had all the money in the world, I'd love to be able to compete like that, but for me it's like why even bother when you know who's gonna win everything?

[Mark17]

No, that's not what I'm saying.
Why can't you guys understand that this isn't about ME? I'm not in a position to buy stuff at the moment anyway. It's about what is happening with the 'hobby' becoming 'a business' and the behaviour of people.

But you can continue being ignorant if you want......

The concept is very simple and about a dozen people have said it in different ways. An item that is being offered for sale will go to the highest bidder, period. That is "fair."

Buying and selling for a profit is how the private sector in this country thrives, whether it's your local gas station, Walmart, or a guy trying to make some extra cash flipping game used stuff.

I remember many years ago, Bruce and Floyd Hartel bought a bunch of Twins jerseys and re-sold them, for a profit I assume. This allowed me to pick up a couple jerseys I wanted. Before and since, I've bought all sorts of items from many dealers and ebay sellers, and presumably, every single one of them had the goal of making money.

People who flip game used to make a profit are not "greedy," any more than the guy who sells cars or houses, or an employee who looks forward to getting a bonus or raise. Or anyone who buys a lottery ticket for that matter. Everybody I know would like some extra cash, and the more the better. It's human nature and basic common sense.

You mentioned you've sold some of your things in the past. Did you sell to the highest offer, or to the fourth-highest offer?

For some reason, there seem to be people who think these basic economic realities should not apply to game used items. Personally, I am glad there are dealers out there, and auction houses, and ebay sellers.

If you think I'm ignorant I can't help that. I learned a long time ago that there are all sorts of things I can't afford, so I live without them and don't worry about it. I'll go after common players while the guys with the dough go after the really great stuff. And when I miss out on something, I shrug my shoulders and hope for better luck next time.

Simple, stress-free, live and let live attitude that's key to enjoying this hobby, which after all is supposed to be fun. If someone's out there gobbling stuff up, that's their business and that's the way it goes. No big deal. Nobody actually NEEDS any game-used item after all.

[jbean023]

I knew this would turn into a cut throat thread and would have both sides that strongly disagree. My opinion on the topic looks at this thread a few different ways.

One I thought this is like us all having a conversation about women(no offense to the women on here) so ill comment for both sides. Everyone one wants a Jennifer Aniston or for ladies everyone wants a Channing Tatum but that's not how the cookie crumbles.

You know what makes me mad, when people buy gas and resell that for higher prices, I want gas straight from the source for the cheapest possible amount!!! Can anyone help me? Ken?? Could you buy us GUU members an oil well?

The thing that gets to me the most, Ive talked through email with a few of you on this topic is the fact that all the American game used items are crossing the ocean and those folks are happy to pay our prices. No offense to you oversea seas collectors because I have done many deals with you but I'll give you an example(its not that the item is going to an overseas collector). I had a pair Jose Bautista signed GU Reebok zig zag cleats on Ebay for $800 OBO. I have never seen a pair for sale so wasn't sure on the value, to me "PE" baseball cleats are more rare than bats and jerseys. I got 300$,400$,450$ offers from US collectors after the first day. I wanted the auction to run 2 weeks and see what offers I got, well when I declined the offer I would get nasty messages saying "Those cleats aren't worth that much" and saying a bunch of negative thoughts(being rude and very disrespectful). To me a pair of cleats might be worth 1,000$ and to you the cleats might be worth 5$, but if you want the cleats from me you're going to pay 1,000$ or I'll keep them in my collection. Then I had a gentleman message me and ask if I would ship overseas, very polite and respectful message. Needless to say the cleats went to a Japanese collector and he said he would of gladly paid 1200$ if I would of asked as he has never seen a pair.

All in all if any of us walked up to a garage sale and seen an old Ty Cobb bat sitting there for 1$, could be a kids play bat, could be Ty's bat. You buy the bat, have the bat checked out and sure enough that's a Ty Cobb game used bat. I contact you and say hey Im a huge Ty Cobb collector would you please sell me that bat for 1$ since that's what you paid. No one on here would say yes, that bat is going to auction or staying in your collection.

Below is two definitions of greed, by definition anyone that has excess of material items is greed, so that would make us all greedy!

As defined outside of Christian writings, greed is an inordinate desire to acquire or possess more than one needs, especially with respect to material wealth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Material_wealth).

However, greed (as seen by the church) is applied to a very excessive or rapacious desire and pursuit of material possessions.

[hairyangryfella]

You mentioned you've sold some of your things in the past. Did you sell to the highest offer, or to the fourth-highest offer?


Well I think any GU item I've ever sold was for a loss, so your point is again irrelevant.

I don't dislike people for having money and buying an item they want.
I do dislike people not giving collectors a chance to buy something they want at a fair price (or at all like stageleft/jt) because their sole intention is to relist at a much higher price. That's what I'm getting at here.

Yes, there is always a business aspect to things, and always a $ amount you can put on something. But is it now accepted for someone to just sweep in and take everything so that they can hold it hostage for profit? Is that capitalism, or is that greed?

[commando]

The concept is very simple and about a dozen people have said it in different ways. An item that is being offered for sale will go to the highest bidder, period. That is "fair."

Simple, stress-free, live and let live attitude that's key to enjoying this hobby, which after all is supposed to be fun. If someone's out there gobbling stuff up, that's their business and that's the way it goes. No big deal. Nobody actually NEEDS any game-used item after all.

Very well said. I don't have tons of extra money laying around, so I flip items here and there to help pay the expenses of being the Houston Gamblers team historian (web hosting, shipping and materials when sending things to players, acquiring team memorabilia to archive, etc)...

I guess I'll mention three points here:

First, it is a slippery slope when you try to guess a seller's intentions, whether it be greed, making a living, or in my case, donating my earnings (and time) for a cause I think is important.

Secondly, "collectors" come and go, especially with the fad items. Most sports cards, comic books and stamps printed during the popular "fad" years can be purchased today for a fraction of what they cost at the peak of their popularity. As a matter of fact, I avidly collect oddball cards from the 1980s and continue to rake in several sets a week as I find them. The fact that this market crashed several years ago doesn't bother me in the least. I do have to wonder though.... What happened to all these card "collectors" and where are they today?

Finally, I agree with those who have said we need to get over the items we can't afford or think are too expensive. The example in my world would be the many Gamblers jerseys owned by Wayne Otto. These shirts were worn by the guys I work for and work with -- people who are true friends -- but I cannot and will not pay over $500 for a common player jersey. I have purchased things from Wayne in the past, and he's a great guy, but at this point in time I won't lose any sleep over jerseys I feel are overpriced. My latest purchase was a couple of months ago, when I snagged a couple of beautiful Gamblers jerseys from Mark Hayne. His prices were more than reasonable, and now the search continues......

I respect everyone's opinion here, and I can understand why people feel the way they feel. I'll bet we have ALL been frustrated at one time or another with someone's selling practices. When this happens to me I choose to either shake my head sadly, or point and laugh, then continue on with the search for the next interesting item. Seek and ye shall find, my GU brothers and sisters.

[beaglegypsy003]

Collectors living in Hawaii don't have the same opportunities or access as folks on the continental U.S. So say the Dallas Cowboys have a blow out of game jerseys, unless I know someone in the area or I fly up there myself, I won't have a chance of buying something. The person that buys a bunch of jerseys and turns around and flips them, gives me a chance at buying something I want as long as I feel the price is fair. I'm not going to ask what he paid for it or how much of a profit he makes.

[frikativ54]

All the folks I know who have a few bucks earn it - they work 16 hour days, miss graduations, Little League and soccer games and some go to bed at 8:00 at night because they have to go to work at 04:00 hours. Others spend half their lives on an airplane away from their families.

Of course, luck has everything to do with it. The people who work sixteen hours a day can do it, because of fortuitous circumstances. There was the family who financed or at least helped pay for their education, the coworkers who mentored them, the role models who brought a sense of stability. From the time they were kids, many had the personal and financial supports to succeed.

But some people don't have that, and they are less likely to make it in the fiercely competitive world of American capitalism. Take the kid who lives in the inner cities, who sees his friends succumb to gang violence or drugs. While I'm not saying that he cannot get ahead, he has a host of challenges to worry about that the aforementioned individuals don't. He can't pay for the finest colleges and the tutors that the rich can afford. He may not even have up-to-date textbooks.

Mom and Dad may be in prison. His sister may have been killed, due to gun violence, and he may have ceaselessly been bullied. If he is fortunate enough to have a shot at college, the schools may not meet his demonstrated financial need. If he falls ill or becomes depressed, he may not have the insurance to get adequate help. None of us succeeds in a vacuum; there are a whole host of people and circumstances that worked to our benefit.


Luck? Luck are the folks who stay home and whine that they aren't getting their fair share.

Who in our society stays home and doesn't work? The people I know who stay at home do as such because they aren't physically or mentally capable of having a job. You seriously mean to imply that such individuals - the disabled, broadly speaking - are lucky?

[abstractheory]

For some reason, there seem to be people who think these basic economic realities should not apply to game used items. Personally, I am glad there are dealers out there, and auction houses, and ebay sellers.

Amen!! Since I don't have many inside contacts/connections, this is my only way to score great stuff the majority of the time. I would die and shrivel-up without all those "greedy" scalpers. :)

[abstractheory]

"The person that buys a bunch of jerseys and turns around and flips them, gives me a chance at buying something I want as long as I feel the price is fair. I'm not going to ask what he paid for it or how much of a profit he makes.[/QUOTE]

Exactly! Example: I recently bought some game used AF Falcons game used helmets on Ebay that were sold at an open auction I unfortunately missed for waaaaay less then what I ended up paying. I was upset that I missed the auction, but was glad they were available to me, no matter the inflated price. Knowing full well what the seller paid in the auction after a little research, and, knowing the amount of profit they made off my dumb-ass for missing it, I still left them positive feedback. Why? Because without them, I would have never been able to obtain them.

Like someone already said, this hobby IS a business and a very competitive one, at that.

I hear what the OP is saying about it being frustrating sometimes, but that also makes it even more rewarding.

[marino13]

I dont know if anyone has touch the "recycling's fund" subject on this matter, but you CANT spend your hard earned money on these collectibles without the help of "recycling's funds".

By recycling's funds I mean selling off stuff that you can make some profit and so forth. Even if selling at cost or a little lost, they are still consider as recycling your funds.

Unless you have unlimited budget, why bother with "flipping collectibles" for fun - this makes absolutely no sense unless you are doing it for the rush at the moment or just to pissed off those doing it for "the love of the hobby". :D

But then again, I can only speak for myself - I do purchase more than enough of the gamers - but I also sell more than my fair share of the stuff since I dont want to end up on HOARDERs TV or people will have fun finding my stuff in STORAGE WARS and so forth.

As for being LATE or MISSED a good deal - you snooze and you lose. There is NO other logical answer beside that. If a deal is too good to be true, then it is just that. But, there are some case of non-educated sellers/stores, I will have no problem paying for the minimal asking and turn around and make a quick profit off of it.

Bottom line, there is GREED everywhere. But for you to have GREED, you need to have FUNDS to back it up. You CANT talk about GREED without funds and when you do, it is just all ENVY and JEALOUSY in my book.

[cohibasmoker]

Of course, luck has everything to do with it. The people who work sixteen hours a day can do it, because of fortuitous circumstances. There was the family who financed or at least helped pay for their education, the coworkers who mentored them, the role models who brought a sense of stability. From the time they were kids, many had the personal and financial supports to succeed.

But some people don't have that, and they are less likely to make it in the fiercely competitive world of American capitalism. Take the kid who lives in the inner cities, who sees his friends succumb to gang violence or drugs. While I'm not saying that he cannot get ahead, he has a host of challenges to worry about that the aforementioned individuals don't. He can't pay for the finest colleges and the tutors that the rich can afford. He may not even have up-to-date textbooks.

Mom and Dad may be in prison. His sister may have been killed, due to gun violence, and he may have ceaselessly been bullied. If he is fortunate enough to have a shot at college, the schools may not meet his demonstrated financial need. If he falls ill or becomes depressed, he may not have the insurance to get adequate help. None of us succeeds in a vacuum; there are a whole host of people and circumstances that worked to our benefit.



Who in our society stays home and doesn't work? The people I know who stay at home do as such because they aren't physically or mentally capable of having a job. You seriously mean to imply that such individuals - the disabled, broadly speaking - are lucky?


Luck has little to do with – its called hard work and sacrifice. One has to put one in a position so “luck” can come their way. I guess the person who gets drunk and then gets behind a wheel of a car and arrested for drunk driving has bad luck? The folks I know are who they are because their family worked their way up to a decent way of life. Instead of sitting at home playing video games,they went to school and after school, spent the rest of their day working atthe family business.

Why people don’t have so-called “luck” isn’t society’s fault – it’s the individual family’s fault. As a for example, 72% ofblack kids are raised in a family without a Father – how is that Society’s or George Bush's fault? You write, they don’t have equal opportunities, well that’s not really true because there are a plethora of Federal programs out there. By the way,middle-income folks do NOT qualify for the below programs because they work and earn too much money.

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/39993685/ns/health-womens_health/t/blacks-struggle-percent-unwed-mothers-rate/ (http://www.nbcnews.com/id/39993685/ns/health-womens_health/t/blacks-struggle-percent-unwed-mothers-rate/)

http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/federalbenefitprograms/tp/toptenbenefits.htm (http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/federalbenefitprograms/tp/toptenbenefits.htm)

No-One has taken advantage of the system more than Obama – a black male from a broken home, born out of wedlock and still, went to the finest schools and became President. What’s everyone else’s excuse?

In closing, I live on the east-coast and the other day, I stayed up to the wee hours of the morning to try and win an auction. I finally did win it so I guess "I'm lucky? And, if I sell it for profit, I'm Greedy?

[worldchamps]

Maybe the government should set up a program for those wishing to have high end game used items but not priveledged enough to obtain them.

[hairyangryfella]

Maybe the government should set up a program for those wishing to have high end game used items but not priveledged enough to obtain them.

Seriously... this post is relevant how??

[hairyangryfella]

Bottom line, there is GREED everywhere. But for you to have GREED, you need to have FUNDS to back it up. You CANT talk about GREED without funds and when you do, it is just all ENVY and JEALOUSY in my book.

Relating to the guy I was referring to on ebay, there is only 1 item he bought that I would even want, out of the many many others, so it's really not jealousy at all - just an observation on human nature I guess.

[ChuckFoPrez]

To bring this full circle, the guy in question (the original post) hasn't made a sale since April 1st looking at his completed listings.

It is now June 30th.

Perspective, fellas.

[kudu]

To bring this full circle, the guy in question (the original post) hasn't made a sale since April 1st looking at his completed listings.

It is now June 30th.

Perspective, fellas.

LOL, not to mention the seller needs to learn how to spell "Kurdt Cobain".

Having read this thread, I can't help but think of a great quote from Bill Murray:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrCEhRNgGHY

[kellsox]

LOL, not to mention the seller needs to learn how to spell "Kurdt Cobain".

Having read this thread, I can't help but think of a great quote from Bill Murray:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrCEhRNgGHY

Off topic of "greed " but cobain did use the "kurtdt" spelling from time to time. Maybe the seller is smarter than you think. Check the back of nirvana's bleach cd.

[kudu]

Off topic of "greed " but cobain did use the "kurtdt" spelling from time to time. Maybe the seller is smarter than you think. Check the back of nirvana's bleach cd.

Smarter? He still spelled the "misspelling" wrong. Cobain should be "Kobain". LOL. Why would you purposely misspell someones name like that? You would lose out on a lot of potential buyers who know him as Kurt Cobain, right? Anyway, here's I little info I found on his misspelled name:

http://live.autographmagazine.com/profiles/blogs/attaining-nirvana

Sorry for the derail.

[sportsnbikes]

An example of a dealer finding an opportunity and flipping for a huge profit. Say what you want about jerseys4thewin, but I would have done the same thing as he did, but I was like 30 minutes too late to the original auction. jerseys4thewin beat me to it.

Original seller didn't fully know the value of the item and offered this 1970 Phillies game used flannel for $70 Buy It Now.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Authentic-vintage-Phillies-44-Game-Used-Worn-HomeJersey-/290925573923?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43bc83f723&nma=true&si=83toTNgxKqvq82YFhQuuY437%252F28%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

jerseys4thewin sold it for $1275 (over a 1800% return).

http://www.ebay.com/itm/GAME-USED-WORN-JOHNNY-BRIGGS-PHILADELPHIA-PHILLIES-1970-WILSON-JERSEY-SET-2-RARE-/140996359328?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20d409b4a0&nma=true&si=83toTNgxKqvq82YFhQuuY437%252F28%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

Just someone taking advantage of an opportunity. Nothing greedy about it.

I have no problem at all with this. Someone didn't do their research. I probably would've done the same thing.

[MLB~NUT]

To be honest, with some of these people, it is pure greed. They have to have everything of a certain player or team, and it looks like their mommies never taught them how to share. In a word, they are not collectors but hoarders.

And those dealer types who just swoop up an item to flip drive me crazy. Especially when I wanted that item as a collector. Yeah, I have picked up an item or two for investment purposes, but the majority of my collection is for my enjoyment. And I guess that a lot of us collectors are in the same boat.



As you should be. Sadly, connections, favoritism, and backdoor dealing dominate this hobby. People often benefit more from whom they know, rather than who they are and their character. It's the sorry state of this hobby and the reason why a lot of people are getting out.

The constant competition, the whose collection is bigger mentality drives me - and others like me - away from the hobby. It's as if some of these people believe that they are better, because of what they own. But you can't go into the grave with your collections; people are ultimately remembered, because of their character. If this is any consolation...

Agreed...:cool:

[cohibasmoker]

I have no problem at all with this. Someone didn't do their research. I probably would've done the same thing.

A "Lucky" "Greedy" "Capitalist" - how dare that Seller make a profit. (LOL)

Jim

[otismalibu]

http://www.projerseytalk.com/nba-jersey-talk/re-nba-jersey-pickups-vol-1/

[Phil316]

I knew something was up with Jersey4thewin. He is obviously shill bidding as I suspected. This might deserve its own thread.

[Phil316]

Correct user I'd is jerseys4thewin

[MSpecht]

Thanks to all who posted on this thread. Some interesting thoughts but it has pretty much run its course and will be locked. Thanks for the autograph link, that was cool.....

To finish this up by paraphrasing Mark17 and Frik:

"There ain't no luggage racks on a hearse."

Mike jackitout7@aol.com