Miguel Cabrera 2011 GU Phoenix Bat!!!

[mlbforeverhomer]

I'm selling off a few highend items to help pay for a move. Therefore, this bat shows "good" use, great tar, few ball marks, piece of batting glove is still attached into the tar, couple of cleat marks. LOA from HOF Bats. Looking for $500 shipped!

Thanks,

[sportsnbikes]

E-mail sent

[mlbforeverhomer]

All emails replied to!

[jrc209]

ill buy it

send pics to jrc03731@gmail.com

[anthony3133]

Payment sent, thanks

[mlbforeverhomer]

Payment sent, thanks

Photomatched this bad boy... so its staying in the collection! Thanks, payment refunded yesterday...:cool:

[slab0meat]

Wha?

[CampWest]

Wha?


:confused: :eek:

[Hoosier39]

That seems a bit crummy to do that.

[CampWest]

Photomatched this bad boy... so its staying in the collection! Thanks, payment refunded yesterday...:cool:


* All sales are not final. Returns/refunds allowed only in cases of seller remorse.

[gameu08]

what else are you selling shoot me an email

mike

[anthony3133]

That's a first for me, seller waiting almost 3 days after receiving payment before reneging on a deal. :confused:
Integrity is optional for some, I guess. :o

[beckettbats]

Photomatched this bad boy... so its staying in the collection! Thanks, payment refunded yesterday...:cool:

That is classless...

[spartanservitto]

Wow.

[tella27]

It does suck that they waited 3 days but as much as everyone is quick to judge this guy the bat being photomatched is a huge difference in value. With that being said waiting 3 days to refund the money and posting what he posted is not very professional.

[chakes89]

Can we at least see the photomatch?

[dangerzone79]

Yeah, I have to agree that if something is paid for you have to suck it up & send it off to the buyer. Do your homework before you sell it. Or even offer the buyer the bat for a little more $$. We don't know if that happened, but just saying. I hope MASIMEN can chime in here on what transpired when he bought his Musial bat. Great story with a happy ending & a really solid move from the seller.

[sportsnbikes]

I'd be upset but it's not my deal...

[jlengeli]

i don't know how badly the buyer wants the bat, but i'm pretty sure the seller is contractually obligated to fulfill his obligation to the buyer and this is breach of contract. there was offer and acceptance and consideration when the buyer sent the money. (curse you, 1L!) it'd be a hassle to get it, but i think buyer wins in a challenge for specific performance of the contract.

...also, just cruel/shady.

[gorilla777]

Yeah, I have to agree that if something is paid for you have to suck it up & send it off to the buyer. Do your homework before you sell it. Or even offer the buyer the bat for a little more $$. We don't know if that happened, but just saying. I hope MASIMEN can chime in here on what transpired when he bought his Musial bat. Great story with a happy ending & a really solid move from the seller.

Hi Dan,

That is actually me here as the seller in the Musial bat story. Good to hear from you yesterday as well.

Take care,

Ben

[dangerzone79]

Hi Dan,

That is actually me here as the seller in the Musial bat story. Good to hear from you yesterday as well.

Take care,

Ben

Oh wow. I like you even more now. Haha! Good on you for handling that situation the way you did. Great talking to you as well my friend. Have a great weekend.

[yanks12025]

What's the Musial story?

[STLHAMMER32]

Musial bat story? Please do share!...........

[dangerzone79]

I'll let Ben or Steve tell it. It's their story to tell.

[ChrisCavalier]

Photomatched this bad boy... so its staying in the collection! Thanks, payment refunded yesterday...:cool:
Hello Clayton,

Given you offered the bat here and someone paid you for it, please post your "photo match" here as well as the LOA from HOF bats. This is not usually something I get involved in but I would like to see it in this case.

In addition, I would appreciate it if the people with the Musial bat story can either wait until Clayton replies before posting here or start a new thread to share it.

Thank you,
Chris

[ChrisCavalier]

Hello Clayton,

Given you offered the bat here and someone paid you for it, please post your "photo match" here as well as the LOA from HOF bats. This is not usually something I get involved in but I would like to see it in this case.

In addition, I would appreciate it if the people with the Musial bat story can either wait until Clayton replies before posting here or start a new thread to share it.

Thank you,
Chris
I will repost this here since the last post obviously did not see my request:

Hello Clayton,

Given you offered the bat here and someone paid you for it, please post your "photo match" here as well as the LOA from HOF bats. This is not usually something I get involved in but I would like to see it in this case.

In addition, I would appreciate it if the people with the Musial bat story can either wait until Clayton replies before posting here or start a new thread to share it.

Thank you,
Chris

[mlbforeverhomer]

I will repost this here since the last post obviously did not see my request:

Hello Clayton,

Given you offered the bat here and someone paid you for it, please post your "photo match" here as well as the LOA from HOF bats. This is not usually something I get involved in but I would like to see it in this case.

In addition, I would appreciate it if the people with the Musial bat story can either wait until Clayton replies before posting here or start a new thread to share it.

Thank you,
Chris

Hello All & Sorry for the late response. I work 98% of the time out of the country with my new job... therefore, I rarely have time now to keep up with GUU. Again my apologies. I have a pic of the original slide my buddy took (photographer for MLB, Getty... Etc.) and he has given me a copy of the photo in which he took that shows somewhat of a match (somewhat because of the size/no very much use) . Unfortunately, I do not have the original digital image to post for proprietary reasons (as everyone is aware, anyone who works for these major photography sources have rights for their images). This one did not make it to Getty but was acquired by MLB for use/potential future use. The actual copy of the photograph he gave me is small 5x7 (Could be smaller). I will do my best to post the HOF Bats COA once I get back into the country as I am away for business this week. Lastly, As for taking three days to refund the money I apologize again. I was out of the country and because of past HACKING issues overseas I did not want to open/access my account until I returned to the USA. Thank you to everyone for there response/chiming in/etc. I would hope due to my long standing relationship/dedication to this website that it would not hurt my reputation in anyway, but everyone is entitled to their personal opinion. I know my response to this bat was completely unprofessional... Therefore, again, my apologies to the buyer/anyone who was offended.

Thank you,

[spartanservitto]

So no photo match ?

-Tony

[ChrisCavalier]

Hello All & Sorry for the late response. I work 98% of the time out of the country with my new job... therefore, I rarely have time now to keep up with GUU. Again my apologies. I have a pic of the original slide my buddy took (photographer for MLB, Getty... Etc.) and he has given me a copy of the photo in which he took that shows somewhat of a match (somewhat because of the size/no very much use) . Unfortunately, I do not have the original digital image to post for proprietary reasons (as everyone is aware, anyone who works for these major photography sources have rights for their images). This one did not make it to Getty but was acquired by MLB for use/potential future use. The actual copy of the photograph he gave me is small 5x7 (Could be smaller). I will do my best to post the HOF Bats COA once I get back into the country as I am away for business this week. Lastly, As for taking three days to refund the money I apologize again. I was out of the country and because of past HACKING issues overseas I did not want to open/access my account until I returned to the USA. Thank you to everyone for there response/chiming in/etc. I would hope due to my long standing relationship/dedication to this website that it would not hurt my reputation in anyway, but everyone is entitled to their personal opinion. I know my response to this bat was completely unprofessional... Therefore, again, my apologies to the buyer/anyone who was offended.
Hello Clayton,

If you wish to continue posting on the GUU forum, I will need you to do the following two things:

1) Post an image of the HOF bat LOA; and

2) Post a close ups of: a) the "few ball marks", b) the "piece of batting glove is still attached into the tar", and c) the "couple of cleat marks."

Since you still have the bat, please make sure these images are three separate close-up images of each one of these attributes.

Since you are currently 'out of the country,' I will expect these to be posted early next week.

Sincerely,
Chris

[Preston]

Hello Clayton,

If you wish to continue posting on the GUU forum, I will need you to do the following two things:

1) Post an image of the HOF bat LOA; and

2) Post a close ups of: a) the "few ball marks", b) the "piece of batting glove is still attached into the tar", and c) the "couple of cleat marks."

Since you still have the bat, please make sure these images are three separate close-up images of each one of these attributes.

Since you are currently 'out of the country,' I will expect these to be posted early next week.

Sincerely,
Chris

Kudos Chris on stepping in and doing the right thing - I know I'd be pretty livid if this situation happened to me. Glad to see something being done about it.

[dangerzone79]

Kudos to Chris, right on. I'm fairly new here but it does feel like a very supportive, tight knit, family atmosphere. I love that.

[tella27]

Chris is solid - I figured he would take care of the issue.

[xpress34]

I work 98% of the time out of the country with my new job... therefore, I rarely have time now to keep up with GUU.

Again my apologies. I have a pic of the original slide my buddy took (photographer for MLB, Getty... Etc.) and he has given me a copy of the photo in which he took that shows somewhat of a match (somewhat because of the size/no very much use). Unfortunately, I do not have the original digital image to post for proprietary reasons (as everyone is aware, anyone who works for these major photography sources have rights for their images).

The actual copy of the photograph he gave me is small 5x7 (Could be smaller).

I will do my best to post the HOF Bats COA once I get back into the country as I am away for business this week.

Lastly, As for taking three days to refund the money I apologize again. I was out of the country and because of past HACKING issues overseas I did not want to open/access my account until I returned to the USA.

I would hope due to my long standing relationship/dedication to this website that it would not hurt my reputation in anyway, but everyone is entitled to their personal opinion.

I know my response to this bat was completely unprofessional... Therefore, again, my apologies to the buyer/anyone who was offended.

I broke down your response to analyze it and try to make sense of it for myself and everyone else who was blown away by this brazen unprofessionalism.

Facts (from the thread):

7/12/13 (Friday) Bat is offered for sale.

7/14/13 (Sunday) One poster says he'll take it and posts his eMail. (no public response from you)

7/16/13 (Tuesday) Another poster says Money Sent (guessing he eMailed you outside the forum to make the deal)

7/16/13 (Tuesday) Just 10 minutes after the 'Money Sent' post, you renege on the deal and say you have a photo match and money is being refunded.

7/22/13 (Monday) You post your response to the criticism.

1st, I'm no Lawyer, but I have studied Contract Law for work and since you made an explicit offer and it was accepted, and paid for, you are LEGALLY bound to the deal. If the buyer so desires, he can sue you for Breach of Contract. Your offer was made in a public forum and I'm sure he can show proof of the agreement via eMail between you and proof of electronic (I'm guessing) payment before you changed the terms of the contract. Just letting you know that beyond being unprofessional, it's illegal.

2nd, if your buddy shoots for Getty, I'm sure he can get you a better copy than a 5x7. I have friends who are professional photographers and this part just makes no sense. To that end, you claimed to have a photo match, now it's 'maybe' a photo match?

3rd, I guess I'm missing something on the 3 days to refund, as per my notes above from reading the thread, it appears you refunded 10 minutes after the post that payment was made.

Finally, your 'hope' that your longstanding relationship etc would keep your reputation from being hurt. It only takes once. If another 'longstanding' member screwed someone here, would you simply forgive them and move on? What about people like JO Sports. If he only faked ONE GU jerseys, should it be forgiven?

It sucks if you find out something might be worth more after the fact, but if you didn't have the time to research it because of your job, why should the buyer be the one who has to suffer? You either shouldn't have listed the bat to begin with, or you should be a big enough person to let him have the bat for the agreed upon price.

IMHO that is the ONLY way you might salvage some of your reputation. If you're not willing to do that, why would anyone ever consider buying from you again? The deal wouldn't truly be done until they had the item in their hands. You've changed your mind one here - who says it won't happen again.

I've said it many times on these boards - and I'll say it again - in this hobby, the ONLY thing you truly have is your reputation. And it only takes one bad transaction that you aren't willing to make right to destroy it.

Sorry for the rant, but just wanted to share my .02.

- Smitty

P.S. - I would be very interested to hear from the BUYER and their take on the whole turn of events.

[anthony3133]

I, among the rest of you, really respect Chris and the site, so I really don't want to comment much until Chris had addressed the situation to his satisfaction. I'm not much into drama, so I wasn't going to really press the situation as it stood, however, I do appreciate Chris watching out for us and the integrity of the hobby and he evidently wanted a little more explanation based on his reading of the thread.

I did, however, want to respond to Smitty's inquiry: Payment was actually sent on Saturday 7/13 after a deal had been made through email/text. I was told if payment were sent on that Saturday, the bat would be mailed Monday. I simply asked after payment was sent, that the seller confirm payment was received (we all like that peace of mind when it comes to sending $ electronically).
I did not receive a response all of Saturday or all of Sunday. On Monday, he finally responded to tell me he would look to make sure he received payment (which by then I confirmed through paypal that he had) and again, asked for my mailing address that I already provided when payment was sent. I did not hear back. The next day, I posted on the forum that payment was sent, hoping to receive a reply since I failed to hear back via text/email. So, while I expected that the bat was in midshipment by that time, the seller then promptly posted about canceling the sale.
Just wanted to clear that up.....

[frikativ54]

Just FYI, I don't think that this is the first time this seller has engaged in a shady transaction. Check out the following thread:

Another Forum Member Ripped Me Off! (http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=47447&highlight=forum+member+ripped)

Also, I was a bit disturbed by the quoted comment from Clayton in the following post:

On Women Collectors (http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showpost.php?p=275788&postcount=21).

Just thought that this is important information, when talking about Mr. Lemmons.

[commando]

I have a feeling the bat is on its way to someone else, who probably paid more $$$$... It'll be interesting to see if Mr. Cavalier's requests are met.

[rchimes13@yahoo.com]

My feelings are, based on timing etc., that the seller needed cash so he found a way to get an "advance" and then refunded once he had resources to do so! I'm willing to bet the bat was never in his hands or if it is/was he never had intentions to actually follow thru with sale....who would sell a Cabrera Tigers era gamer for $500????

[Hoosier39]

My feelings are, based on timing etc., that the seller needed cash so he found a way to get an "advance" and then refunded once he had resources to do so! I'm willing to bet the bat was never in his hands or if it is/was he never had intentions to actually follow thru with sale....who would sell a Cabrera Tigers era gamer for $500????

Interesting. Never thought of this one...

[STLHAMMER32]

My feelings are, based on timing etc., that the seller needed cash so he found a way to get an "advance" and then refunded once he had resources to do so! I'm willing to bet the bat was never in his hands or if it is/was he never had intentions to actually follow thru with sale....who would sell a Cabrera Tigers era gamer for $500????


I remember seeing this bat for sale by Tim @ HOF BATS....I can't remember the original price but it was listed at a great price and I believe that his description detailed the bat not being a known brand for game use but likely BP which may have justified the price being low...I have a photo of him using the phoenix brand in a game, however..

[tella27]

My feelings are, based on timing etc., that the seller needed cash so he found a way to get an "advance" and then refunded once he had resources to do so! I'm willing to bet the bat was never in his hands or if it is/was he never had intentions to actually follow thru with sale....who would sell a Cabrera Tigers era gamer for $500????

Paypal pretty much allows people to get 30 day interest free loans. Say a claim would have been put in the seller can drag everything out for almost 30 days before Paypal sends the buyers money back. This seems to happen pretty often on eBay. Those "great deals" aren't so great sometimes. Its cheaper than a payday loan.

[bravesfanjd]

found this on HOFBATS.com

Name : Clayton URL : Item(s) Purchased : 2011 Miguel Cabrera Game Used Bat Comments : The bat was greater in person then described! I am extremely happy with this purchase! Thanks again Tim for the great item, and happy customer!

http://us.3.p10.webhosting.yahoo.com/gb/view?member=t_byington

It was under view customer feedback. So I am assuming this is the bat in question.

[bravesfanjd]

Sorry for the quick back to back post but I also found this page listing the bat for sale on HOFbats.com

http://www.hofbats.com/sale/Cabrera11Phx.html


The bat is listed for $325 so selling it for $500 (if it is the correct bat) is going to ensure profit and at that price he wouldn't of had to sit on the bat for awhile versus listing if for $1000 and having to wait for a specific type of buyer for $500 any collector would buy it.

**** If either of my post violate rules I apologize but Im just trying to help get information I find out about this situation because of the nature of it. Feel free to delete these post if they are in violation of any rules******

[xpress34]

I did, however, want to respond to Smitty's inquiry: Payment was actually sent on Saturday 7/13 after a deal had been made through email/text. I was told if payment were sent on that Saturday, the bat would be mailed Monday. I simply asked after payment was sent, that the seller confirm payment was received (we all like that peace of mind when it comes to sending $ electronically).
I did not receive a response all of Saturday or all of Sunday. On Monday, he finally responded to tell me he would look to make sure he received payment (which by then I confirmed through paypal that he had) and again, asked for my mailing address that I already provided when payment was sent. I did not hear back. The next day, I posted on the forum that payment was sent, hoping to receive a reply since I failed to hear back via text/email. So, while I expected that the bat was in midshipment by that time, the seller then promptly posted about canceling the sale.
Just wanted to clear that up.....

Anthony -

Thanks for taking the time to clear that up.

Interesting that he didn't/wouldn't/couldn't respond when Payment was actually sent/received, but when you posted here that payment had been sent, it only took him 10 minutes to respond and cancel the deal... kind of fits the same M.O. as previous complaints where he doesn't respond to messages, but quickly responds when it's here in public view on the board.

This and some of the other links aren't the first or only bad stories I've heard about deals with Mr Lemmons. My suggestion would be to lawyer up (if you can) and sue him for breach of contract.

Per Gaddy Wells - Texas Contract Law (http://www.gaddywells.com/TEXAS_CONTRACT_LAW.html):

In Texas, the elements that are generally required to create an enforceable contract:

(1) An offer;
(2) Acceptance in strict compliance with terms of the offer;
(3) A meeting of the minds with respect to both the subject matter of the agreement and all of its essential terms;
(4) A communication that each party has consented to the terms of the agreement;
(5) For a written contract, execution and delivery of the contract with an intent that it become mutual and binding on both parties; and
(6) Consideration.

This case has all of the elements needed and may also allow you remedy under TORT law to recover other damages due to the breach.

It may not be what you want to do, but you are in a position to end (or at least put a sizable dent) in his continuing to do things like this to other collectors.

As a few other posts after mine said (and I stopped short of going here in my first post), he may have gotten a higher offer or just basically taken an interest free loan from you with no true intent to sell.

The 'photo match' story holds no water with me based on the information he provided about it.

All the best -

Smitty

[sportsnbikes]

Sorry for the quick back to back post but I also found this page listing the bat for sale on HOFbats.com

http://www.hofbats.com/sale/Cabrera11Phx.html


The bat is listed for $325 so selling it for $500 (if it is the correct bat) is going to ensure profit and at that price he wouldn't of had to sit on the bat for awhile versus listing if for $1000 and having to wait for a specific type of buyer for $500 any collector would buy it.

**** If either of my post violate rules I apologize but Im just trying to help get information I find out about this situation because of the nature of it. Feel free to delete these post if they are in violation of any rules******

Very interesting. I had inquired about this bat and asked for a pic. This is what he sent me. It's the same picture from the link. Very glad I didn't commit. I for one, will never do a deal with this guy.

[frikativ54]

I'm selling off a few highend items to help pay for a move. Therefore, this bat shows "good" use, great tar, few ball marks, piece of batting glove is still attached into the tar, couple of cleat marks. LOA from HOF Bats. Looking for $500 shipped!

As per the OP, this bat displays good use. Later in the same thread, Clayton admits that there is "no[t] very much use" on the bat. (http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showpost.php?p=330265&postcount=27).

On the HOF Bats site, this bat is described as "[S]howing evidence of light use consisting only of a couple ball marks with light stitch marks and a single cleat mark. The handle has a light coat of mota stick and is uncracked..."

And it continues: "Considering the lack of photographic evidence of Cabrera using this bat as well as the early March production date (3-9-11) This bat was likely only briefly tried out by Cabrera and then retired" (http://www.hofbats.com/sale/Cabrera11Phx.html).

So does this bat show light use or good use? Was it used in BP or in a game? How many marks/scuffs are present? Is there a photomatch?

There are plenty of questions that still remain unanswered. While I won't speculate on that for which I don't have proof, in this case, something definitely seems amiss.

[ChrisCavalier]

As per the OP, this bat displays good use. Later in the same thread, Clayton admits that there is "no[t] very much use" on the bat. (http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showpost.php?p=330265&postcount=27).

On the HOF Bats site, this bat is described as "[S]howing evidence of light use consisting only of a couple ball marks with light stitch marks and a single cleat mark. The handle has a light coat of mota stick and is uncracked..."

And it continues: "Considering the lack of photographic evidence of Cabrera using this bat as well as the early March production date (3-9-11) This bat was likely only briefly tried out by Cabrera and then retired" (http://www.hofbats.com/sale/Cabrera11Phx.html).

So does this bat show light use or good use? Was it used in BP or in a game? How many marks/scuffs are present? Is there a photomatch?

There are plenty of questions that still remain unanswered. While I won't speculate on that for which I don't have proof, in this case, something definitely seems amiss.
Hello Leslie,

As per my post, I am hoping your questions will be addressed when Clayton does the following two things that I requested:

1) Post an image of the HOF Bats LOA; and

2) Post a close ups of: a) the "few ball marks", b) the "piece of batting glove is still attached into the tar", and c) the "couple of cleat marks."

Since he still has the bat, I asked him to please make sure these images are three separate close-up images of each one of these attributes.

After Clayton makes the post, which I will assume will be Monday since he returns from his international travels this weekend, I am hoping everyone's questions will be answered.

Sincerely,
Chris

[shaunharr]

This is not the only forum this member has had problems on

[sportsnbikes]

This is not the only forum this member has had problems on

And not the only time he's done this. Several other threads of bas experiences with this guy.

[commando]

Hello out there in game used land!!!

[gorilla777]

Any updates on this deal?

Thanks,

Ben

[ChrisCavalier]

Any updates on this deal?
I do not wish to get into all the specifics on this thread. However, I will say that administrative action has been taken in this instance. This was decided as we believed it would be to the benefit of the entire community to do so.

Sincerely,
Chris

[yankees506]

"Banned" nuff said!!!