NY Yankees Jersey Help / Thoughts?

[shafrancollectibles.com]

This jersey just came in from a longtime collector but I fear it cannot possibly be what it is authenticated as - "Dave Winfield #31 Old Timer's Day Home Jersey". The jersey is a Russell Athletic with an armband on the left sleeve, which reduces the years it could have been used, of course. I do know that it is exactly as originally sold, with no alterations to it or the LOA, but I fear it is not actually a Winfield jersey. Can anybody help?

https://store01.prostores.com/shafrancollectibles/media/9/a20791b1401d9f5e727502_m.JPG
https://store01.prostores.com/shafrancollectibles/media/9/a20791b1401d9f11c7bdda_m.JPG
https://store01.prostores.com/shafrancollectibles/media/9/a20791b1401d9f9dcf176f_m.JPG

[joelsabi]

If I had to guess, I would think it was a Tim Raines 1996 jersey or another player who wore 31.

I dont think it is Winfield because I found a jersey from 1995 that was a size 52. When he retired do you think he reduces to a size 46?

It makes more sense that he jersey was used by Tim Raines since he wore a 46 at this time of his career. The Russell tag dates to 1996 and there was an armband that was placed on the jersey later in the middle of that season.

Armband makes sense on either Winfield and Raines as the armband was placed in June and Old Timers Day is traditionally in July. How soon after retirement to players get invited to Old Timers Day? Could it be another past Yankee who wore 31 who wore it at the Old Timers game like perhaps Frank Tanana or Ed Figueroa, who are smaller in stature.

So the main question is the size of Winfield after retirement, imho, and if there is evidence that it was tagged as an Old Timers Day jersey by the equipment manager.

[commando]

Good points Joel, but the MLB logo on the back of the collar was placed there no earlier than 2000. It may not be original to the jersey, but certainly adds more mystery to what this might be.

[joelsabi]

Good points Joel, but the MLB logo on the back of the collar was placed there no earlier than 2000. It may not be original to the jersey, but certainly adds more mystery to what this might be.

good catch. the russell tag are from 1995-1999 but maybe there is some carryover of some russell tags into the 2000 season.

on the armband, it could make sense as a old timers jersey in 2000 as it has the armband for Bob Lemon but would not have a world series patch on the other sleeve if it was removed from use after the old timers game and before the world series. i verified that winfield was in attendance the old timers game in 2000, the debut of Mattingly to the Old Timers Day ceremonies.

it could make sense as a Glenallen Hill jersey if he is a size 46 too as he was the person wearing 31 out on the field on that day.

again the verification through photo of Winfield from 2000 could help.

here are photos of winfield in 1995 (when he wore a size 52) and 1999 (0ld timers game).

again the main question is the size of Winfield after retirement, imho, and if there is evidence that it was tagged as an Old Timers Day jersey by the equipment manager.

there are usually a yankee inventory tags on these jerseys attached to the top button of the jersey. is there one present on this jersey?

[Misha]

Color of MLB logo would make it 2000-2011. Russell was used 2000-2004 and 2010. Armband was used 2000/2001/2010, but 2001 was only used after September 11th and the Old Timer's Game was before that, so it narrows down to 2000 or 2010. Winfield was on the roster in 2000, but not 2010, so it looks like you need to find a photo from that 2000 game. At first, I thought the Russell tag is not the 2000 tag, but the style used through 1999, HOWEVER, upon googling Yankees 2000 GU jerseys, they all have the tagging seen on your jersey. I think then it all points to 2000 and checks out. Just need to confirm his size in 2000

[joelsabi]

Color of MLB logo would make it 2000-2011. Russell was used 2000-2004 and 2010. Armband was used 2000/2001/2010, but 2001 was only used after September 11th and the Old Timer's Game was before that, so it narrows down to 2000 or 2010. Winfield was on the roster in 2000, but not 2010, so it looks like you need to find a photo from that 2000 game. At first, I thought the Russell tag is not the 2000 tag, but the style used through 1999, HOWEVER, upon googling Yankees 2000 GU jerseys, they all have the tagging seen on your jersey. I think then it all points to 2000 and checks out. Just need to confirm his size in 2000

Nice research and explanation.

Where did you find the roster for 2000 old timers game? Did you have a program in your collection? Did you check if any other oldimers happen to use no. 31 in 2000 or could you copy and paste the roster here. Was Ed Figueroa on the 2000 roster?

2001 was also the year Winfield went into the HOF wearing a Padres cap and did not attend old timers day.

Only other thought was if there is a remnant of a 5 on the left sleeves that was used in 1999 just in case they reused the jersey again.

Only reason I bring up misidentification is because of this thread i remembered

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=803&highlight=misidentified+steiner

[cliffjmp33]

To follow up on Joel's comments the 2000 Old Timer's Day, I just took a quick look and seems it was originally set for July 15, but moved (assuming weather, to September 2.

Not sure what that adds to the puzzle, but thought it was worth noting.

[joelsabi]

To follow up on Joel's comments the 2000 Old Timer's Day, I just took a quick look and seems it was originally set for July 15, but moved (assuming weather, to September 2.

Not sure what that adds to the puzzle, but thought it was worth noting.

as you know, sometimes the armband is on for the full season if the person's death occurred during the offseason and sometimes armbands appear on jerseys only after the person's death during the season. knowing whether an armband was present by the time of the old timers day can narrow the years of the jersey's use like Misha explained succinctly. (ie. in 2001, no armband since death rememberance occurred after the date of the old timers game)

this list on this link is helpful for dating yankee jerseys (as one factor)
http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showpost.php?p=169274&postcount=21

here's something odd.
i found a photo with ed figueroa at an old timers game and he is wearing no. 24, a number he never wore as a Yankee.
http://churchwhisperer.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/yankees.jpg
All the other old timers numbers for the players in the photos were identifiable from the caption.
Whitey Ford (16), Yogi Berra (8), Reggie Jackson (44), Don Mattingly (23), Ron Guidry (49), Rich Goose Gossage (54), Paul O’Neill (21), Scott Brossius (18), Ed Figueroa (25) and Chris Chambliss (10). Why didn't Figueroa use 31?

[TFig27]

as you know, sometimes the armband is on for the full season if the person's death occurred during the offseason and sometimes armbands appear on jerseys only after the person's death during the season. knowing whether an armband was present by the time of the old timers day can narrow the years of the jersey's use like Misha explained succinctly. (ie. in 2001, no armband since death rememberance occurred after the date of the old timers game)

this list on this link is helpful for dating yankee jerseys (as one factor)
http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showpost.php?p=169274&postcount=21

here's something odd.
i found a photo with ed figueroa at an old timers game and he is wearing no. 24, a number he never wore as a Yankee.
http://churchwhisperer.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/yankees.jpg
All the other old timers numbers for the players in the photos were identifiable from the caption.
Whitey Ford (16), Yogi Berra (8), Reggie Jackson (44), Don Mattingly (23), Ron Guidry (49), Rich Goose Gossage (54), Paul O’Neill (21), Scott Brossius (18), Ed Figueroa (25) and Chris Chambliss (10). Why didn't Figueroa use 31?


25 there appears to be Joe Pepitone

[shafrancollectibles.com]

Thanks for some great research / help. My original concerns centered around the fact that I thought it to be from 2000 but I had not found evidence that Winfield was at the event in 2000. Knowing he was there does certainly help (anyone have a link to that info?). I know it is not a 2010 jersey for sure.

The jersey does appear to have signs that it was prepared / used for a special event like OTD as the Russell logo is still visible under the armband on the sleeve, which is common and still done today.

I guess I need to keep digging and find a photo from 2000 to figure this one out.

[joelsabi]

Thanks for some great research / help. My original concerns centered around the fact that I thought it to be from 2000 but I had not found evidence that Winfield was at the event in 2000. Knowing he was there does certainly help (anyone have a link to that info?). I know it is not a 2010 jersey for sure.

The jersey does appear to have signs that it was prepared / used for a special event like OTD as the Russell logo is still visible under the armband on the sleeve, which is common and still done today.


Here's a copy of a news article about OTD 2001.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2199&dat=20000902&id=HTEyAAAAIBAJ&sjid=8OUFAAAAIBAJ&pg=6660,961431
Apparantly Misha has a roster list. A roster list can eliminate whether any other former yankee who wore 31 was at the game.

Also knowing the size of Glenallen Hill would be helpful as he also wore 31 on that day.

Have you reached out to Steiner whether this could possibly be any other person's jersey besides Winfield? Maybe they have size records of other 2000 jersey of Hill.They once misidentified a Canseco jersey for a Wells jersey.




25 there appears to be Joe Pepitone
thanks. an error on the caption now makes sense

[sox83cubs84]

My recollection of Glenaleen Hill game jerseys of that era were as size 50s...definitely not 46.

At one point in 2000, I believe Lance Johnson also wore #31 for a brief stint (haven't confirmed this) Early-mid 1990s jerseys of him were size 42s, but you can't rule out a 46 on him, either.

Dave Miedema

[joelsabi]

My recollection of Glenaleen Hill game jerseys of that era were as size 50s...definitely not 46.

At one point in 2000, I believe Lance Johnson also wore #31 for a brief stint (haven't confirmed this) Early-mid 1990s jerseys of him were size 42s, but you can't rule out a 46 on him, either.

Dave Miedema

good memory. Glenallen looked bigger than Winfield in 1999.

if we ignore OTD (Sept.2) , there were three guys wearing #31 for the yankees in 2000: Ben Ford (June 23 to July 6) and Lance Johnson (April 7 to May 27), and Glenallen Hill (July 27 to end of season). Lance Johnson was the smallest in stature among the three. Ben Ford and Glenallen Hill probably wore the same size.

[Misha]

So I don't have a program or anything, but digging through the net I found the following:

Photo of Murcer at 2000 Old timers game confirming the armband
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2008/07/former_yankee_bobby_murcer_die.html

Mentions on blogs/websites of Winfield being there:

"Mattingly will be joining former teammate Dave Winfield - who made his Old Timers debut last year - Yogi Berra, Reggie Jackson and many other former Yankees"

"Don Mattingly is scheduled to make his first Old-Timers' Day appearance today when the Yankees have their 54th annual game for their legendary alumni. Among the star-studded roster of more than 40 players scheduled to participate include Whitey Ford, Yogi Berra, Reggie Jackson, Dave Winfield, Ron Guidry, Phil Rizzuto and Graig Nettles"

"Don Mattingly, Yogi Berra, Whitey Ford, Graig Nettles, Joe Pepitone, Mickey Rivers, Moose Skowron and Dave Winfield will participate in the Yankees' 54th Old-Timers' Day today"

BUT.....
The best thing I found was this forum where the first poster actually has photos of the game, and there is a caption that says "Dave Winfield looked like he had the best time". Unfortunately, the photos don't show up :(
http://forums.nyyfans.com/showthread.php/2511-Yankee-Old-Timers-00

I guess your best bet for a photo is to join that site and try to contact the poster StephenS. Still won't help for a size though.

Good luck

[BULBUS]

The jerseys used on OTD have had the R on the sleeve for many years. It appears that in the photo of Murcer, the R is peeking out. Does your jersey have the R under the armband?

[BULBUS]

Looking at your pic again, it appears the R is under the armband. I would say, definitely an OTD jersey.

[Misha]

That R and armband matches perfectly. With everything so far and the Steiner letter, it's looking really good. To make it ironclad I guess you'd need a copy of that photo mentioned in that link I found, and confirm his size in 2000. I see Winfield is quite active on twitter, maybe give it a shot asking him directly?

[joelsabi]

says over 30 former players but doesnt list them all by name.

[shafrancollectibles.com]

Thanks guys for all this information. I was very skeptical of the shirt for a few reasons and as those who have dealt with me know (hopefully), I am (overly) cautious most of the time. I think I have a winner here though but will continue to try to gather some info/images.

Again, thanks.