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godwulf
10-30-2013, 10:28 AM
...with some people. I'm referring to the guys - and maybe some of them/you are reading this - who ask a (usually minor league) player (at ST, Fall League, whatever) to sign a whole page (or more) of cards, often the same card, when other folks are just trying to get a ball signed, or whatever.

I'm going to try very hard not to sound judgmental - really I am. I do understand that you/they are perfectly within your/their rights to ask a player to sign multiple whatevers, and then to do whatever it is you do with those twenty identical signed cards. Maybe you sell them on sportlots or eBay, maybe you compulsively hoard them - I don't know, and it isn't my business. I'd just like to hear from somebody who routinely does this, and get your perspective on the practice.

Is it a business for you, or "just" a hobby? If it's a business, is there really a market for that many signed pre-rookie cards of some semi-obscure prospect, or do you have big albums of signed, unsold cards sitting around?

During the Fall League, I see guys hauling their big albums from park to park, getting some cards signed before the games, and then sometimes not even staying to watch the games.

I said I wasn't going to be judgmental, but I feel as though I should have the right to say how I sometimes feel, in those situations - it isn't really the same thing, is it? When I'm waiting to get a ball signed - not to sell, just for my personal collection - and between me and the player are a half-dozen guys holding out big pages of identical cards, it does, to be honest, put my teeth somewhat on edge, as the saying goes. Not only am I afraid that - as sometimes happens - the player will get tired of signing at some point and walk away, but I have to feel some kind of empathy for the guy; I mean, most of them want to accomodate the fans as much as possible, but... The truth is, I sometimes feel embarassed, in those situations...like I want to say to the player, "Hey, not everybody here is looking to make a buck off of you, okay?"

Yeah, well, I probably didn't do too well with the "judgmental" thing, I guess. Sorry. Am I alone in feeling this way?

gorphils
10-30-2013, 11:03 AM
Some of these people are trading the cards to others or getting them done for others but others are selling them its true. I have been known to get a page or the same cards done but they are strictly for people that I trade with or am doing a 50/50 with. (this is where a person sends you x number of cards and I get them signed...then I keep half and return the others to them)

ahuff
10-30-2013, 07:40 PM
Jeff,

I completely agree with you. Trading them or not is not the issue. How would these same people feel if roles were reversed. Granted...some would be fine with it - others not. I spoke to Blake Beavan when he was in my area. I saw the same people day after day bringing books with 9 cards per page and asking him to sign them. Not only did they have 9 cards a page (of him) but they had multiple pages for him to sign. I see it much like you...if he signs all 27 cards you have that means 26 other people do not get an autograph that would have had that jackwad not done that. When I spoke to Blake he seemed very cordial and said it didn't bother him. I did notice his sig went from a full sig to primarily "B's". I do believe Blake is the exception and I always wonder if he still feels the same way after years of that garbage.

Guys like Ryne Sandberg are great at helping out fans, as they remember you and will not only sign just one or two items for you a day...but they remember your face and will only sign one/two for you during the entire homestand. I love guys like that.

The best story I have heard/seen was this: A local card dealer (or use to be) shows up at games with hundreds of cards of these players, gets them signed, and NEVER stays for even a pitch. The thing is this - he never actually gets them signed himself...he only has his daughter do it. She was getting them signed one day. She walks up with a stack of probably 50 cards of this one player and asks him to sign. He signs the first one, and then tells her if her dad wants the rest signed he has to come ask for himself. Still chuckle at that one!!!! :-)

godwulf
10-31-2013, 12:33 PM
I think the craziest example I've ever seen was a few years ago, before an Arizona League game out at Papago Park. There's this father-son "team" that shows up for a lot of these events - the son is not a kid, but a guy in his twenties - and I watched while, between the two of them, they got Diamondbacks prospect Wagner Mateo to sign some outrageous number of cards, while I stood there waiting to get a ball signed.

A couple of years later, I'm at an independent league game, and I'm telling this story to a guy, and I'm a couple of sentences into it, and he says some number - like "Fifty-four". I said, "What's that?" and he says, "That's the number of cards we got him to sign." I hadn't recognized him, but this guy I'm telling the story to is one of the guys I'm telling it about. At least I dodged a bullet by not starting the story with, "Wait till you hear about these jerks!" :rolleyes:

Billy77
10-31-2013, 06:59 PM
I have been collecting autos since I was 10. I am now 46 and have emassed a huge collection of signed cards for baseball, football and hockey.

My practice has always been to ask players to sign as many at their discretion. I may have 10 cards on a page but they are 10 DIFFERENT cards.

What I do since the late seventies is if topps puts out a set of cards, I try to get every card signed by the respective player. So some of the sets may have one player on 7 different cards, thus prompting me to try and get all of them signed.

Since I have collected for so long some player do remember me and we also have become good friends. I have actually gone to many ALL Star games and championship games as well as Stanley Cups.

WHen they ask me or speak of collectors asking for multiple sigs on cards and reasons why, I just explain to them my side of the above story and they get it. They may not like it but the get it.

Billy

godwulf
10-31-2013, 10:01 PM
Different cards - I don't really have a problem with that. I've asked guys - not active players, but former players who were managing or coaching - to sign five or six different cards. (Steve Karsay signed five cards for me earlier today, in fact, as did Tim Worrell last Tuesday.) Even then, it's not something I would do if I was surrounded by other fans, waiting for an autograph. I generally only ask for that many autos at a time if I'm the only one asking.

It's the album pages with eight or ten copies of the same card, presented to a player for whom a lot of other people are waiting, that I would think would give some players second thoughts about making themselves as accessible as they have been.

Roady
11-01-2013, 07:46 PM
I agree that it is selfish on the collectors/sellers part it but the player can always sign just one and move on to the next person.
Do they ever do that? Just say they can't sign that many for one person?
I have never asked for an autograph at a game so I don't know.

shaunharr
11-05-2013, 05:44 PM
I get mostly cards signed, at minor league games that is. With guys that I know have no problem signing multiple cards, I will ask them to sign howeve many I have. I don't ask guys to sign a lot if I know they won't either. Also, if I have many cards, I will ask a player if he could get a couple done, because I have them all ready for the entire series.
Yes, I have gotten 10-15 cards signed at once by players, but they had no problem with it, and a lot of the times, there aren't more than a few people around anyways.

Roady
11-05-2013, 11:05 PM
I would hope that any grown man would make way for any child that wants an autograph. I have seen men getting in front of children before and that is not right. It is shameful actually.

xpress34
11-06-2013, 06:42 PM
I would hope that any grown man would make way for any child that wants an autograph. I have seen men getting in front of children before and that is not right. It is shameful actually.

Roady - there is another side to this issue (and it's been brought up before) called 'entitlement'.

There are many times that I have been at the park early and waited (literally) for hours for the one player I am looking for an autograph from only to have parents show up with their children just minutes before and then demand that we should let the children get up front. I'm sorry, but lack of planning on their part does not constitute and emergency on mine.

I hear them telling their kids just to squeeze or force their way in and very rarely have I ever heard an 'excuse me' out of any of these kids. They knock your stuff over, step on your feet, etc. and neither them nor their parents have any type of manners to apologize for their actions.

Now, if you're talking about the jack @$$e@ that shove their way past kids (and everyone else), then I completely agree with you... the problem is, the kids I'm talking about above will grow up to become these type of adults because their parents are raising them to feel entitled to do or get whatever they want whenever they want it.

Just my .02.

Smitty

xpress34
11-06-2013, 06:55 PM
As an addendum to my post above...

Having worked for Rawlings and Nike and having gotten to know on a somewhat personal level many of the players, some of those parents don't even realize that my friends or myself might have a better shot at getting some players to come over and chat and sign than their child screaming at the player for 15 straight minutes - and not even knowing the players name.

I can't tell you - and I'm talking about at the MLB level (Coors Field) - how many times Rockies players have come over to hi and then start signing and then the kids and their parents (the same rude jerks I mentioned above) now want to be polite and start asking, 'Who was that?'.

They aren't there for certain players, they are just there to get an autograph... I seen them yell at Coaches, Ground Keepers, etc to come and sign...

Great example - 2008 Spring Training at Hi Corbett - St Patty's Day - the Rockies usually toss many of their hats (with Green CR) into the stands after the game... Mark Stritmatter (former Rockies Bullpen Coach and now roaming instructor) is coming off the field and a group of kids are yelling 'GIVE ME YOUR HAT!'... not even a Please... 'Mister', 'Hey You', etc...

I calmly walk past them and yell, 'Stritty! May I please have your lid?' He looks at me and says 'My cap?' and I reply 'Yes Please.' He walks over in front of the kids and gives it to me.

I immediately get the squawkers telling me to 'Give it to a Kid!' My response? 'Can ANYONE tell me who that was or what he does?'.... SILENCE... So I said 'Have a nice day!' and left with my cap...

The next day, a Dad and his two kids were sitting next to my mom and I... Stritty threw a ball up to one of the kids and his brother burst into tears. Between innings I went to the rail, got Stritty's attention, told him the situation and he handed me another ball to give to the other boy... I think it made their day and their father was so thankful he bought me a beer...

Roady
11-06-2013, 07:02 PM
As a grown man, unless I am paying for an autograph, I would just move out of the way for the kids. I don't care if their parents planned or didn't plan. It's not the kids fault.
As a collector I still know these guys are not Gods and nothing is worth going to war with children or their parents.
And I sleep very good at night.

64SHEA
11-07-2013, 12:55 AM
The worst part is when the kids, at there parents behest, force there way in to get an autograph and then have no idea who the guy is. Its hard enough to get an autograph because it seems a lot of players wont even sign for grown men. David Wright has signed a few times at roads games but he walks by anyone who is not under 12 or, of course, a good looking female. I don't understand why kids think they should, and are given anything they want. I look at it like this, in 10 years that 9 year old is going to be a rude, entitled PIA 19 year old with my, probably long forgotten, autograph.

On the other hand it is nice to be able to have my, now 14 year old, niece be able to get autographs for me. :)

Roady
11-07-2013, 07:47 AM
You can buy anyone's autograph online for less money than it takes in gas and food to meet them and get it in person.
Unless your life long goal is to shove a piece of paper in an athletes face and say hi all in a few seconds.

sox83cubs84
11-08-2013, 10:36 PM
The worst part is when the kids, at there parents behest, force there way in to get an autograph and then have no idea who the guy is. Its hard enough to get an autograph because it seems a lot of players wont even sign for grown men. David Wright has signed a few times at roads games but he walks by anyone who is not under 12 or, of course, a good looking female. I don't understand why kids think they should, and are given anything they want. I look at it like this, in 10 years that 9 year old is going to be a rude, entitled PIA 19 year old with my, probably long forgotten, autograph.

On the other hand it is nice to be able to have my, now 14 year old, niece be able to get autographs for me. :)

I hear ya talkin'. Several years ago the Astros were in town, and one of their coaches, Bob Lillis, was talking with a friend of mine who knows 1960s baseball and knows who Lillis is. The conversation they were having kept getting interrupted by brats who wanted an autograph even though they didn't know Bob Lillis from SpongeBob Squarepants. Lillis took a moment and asked the kids if they knew who he was. Of course, they didn't. Lillis, normally a great signer, told the kids that he wasn't gong to sign for people who didn't even know his name.


Dave Miedema

Roady
11-09-2013, 04:29 PM
Everyones kids are brats unless it's your kids. ;)

I understand the frustration but why would a grown man call children wanting an autograph a brat?
Talk about setting an example. I bet you wouldn't call them brats to most of their fathers faces.

Roady
11-09-2013, 04:30 PM
Some of you "adults" talk like children (brats) yourselves.

lengthwise1
11-09-2013, 04:45 PM
The worst part is when the kids, at there parents behest, force there way in to get an autograph and then have no idea who the guy is. Its hard enough to get an autograph because it seems a lot of players wont even sign for grown men. David Wright has signed a few times at roads games but he walks by anyone who is not under 12 or, of course, a good looking female. I don't understand why kids think they should, and are given anything they want. I look at it like this, in 10 years that 9 year old is going to be a rude, entitled PIA 19 year old with my, probably long forgotten, autograph.

On the other hand it is nice to be able to have my, now 14 year old, niece be able to get autographs for me. :)

I know, I have been trying to get his 143rd HR signed since 2010!

Billy77
11-09-2013, 06:14 PM
I'm a firm believer in...You should not ask for some ones autograph if you do not know who it is. It's very rude especially the way parents "adults" and their children ask these days.

Just a different generation now. People believe players "owe" them something.

Roady
11-09-2013, 06:35 PM
I'm a firm believer that if you find yourself getting mad at children then maybe you should find another hobby.

sox83cubs84
11-09-2013, 09:40 PM
Everyones kids are brats unless it's your kids. ;)

I understand the frustration but why would a grown man call children wanting an autograph a brat?
Talk about setting an example. I bet you wouldn't call them brats to most of their fathers faces.

I don't call well-behaved kids brats...just the ones who have never been taught how to act in public. And I wouldn't care if the Pope was standing there, I'd call it as I see it.

Dave Miedema

Roady
11-10-2013, 09:59 AM
I don't call well-behaved kids brats...just the ones who have never been taught how to act in public. And I wouldn't care if the Pope was standing there, I'd call it as I see it.

Dave Miedema

Your calls are sometimes in question. ;)

godwulf
11-10-2013, 11:11 AM
My anger is usually mostly reserved for, and directed at, the parents of the brats - perfectly good English word, more than applicable in this case - who bring their little darlings to the ballpark, and then pay no attention whatsoever to their conduct. Their behavior is inflicted on paying patrons, there to watch a Baseball game, not to babysit or to instruct someone else's kids on how to behave in a public place.

When it comes to autograph etiquette, I certainly wouldn't expect a little kid, maybe five or six, to know a player's name, but older than that and a parent ought not to just put a ball into a kid's hand and set them loose to grab anybody in a uniform for a signature. I've seen kids who were old enough to know better - and probably would, had a parent ever taught them - trying to get players on the field to sign during the game. I've seen kids trying to get a starting pitcher to come over and sign while he was engaged in his pre-game warm-up. (Although I must confess that I've seen the odd adult do the same thing, from time to time.) I have seen kids trying to get a fielder to toss them a baseball that was in play.

Last night, at a Fall League game at Salt River Fields, there were more than a dozen boys, aged about eleven or twelve, who spent the whole nine innings charging through the seats, screaming, and only paying attention to the game when a foul ball was hit. Numerous times, I had to tell a kid to sit down or move, 'cause he was standing, glove at the ready, exactly between me and the plate. Once, a couple of kids wandering through the section wanted me to stand up so they could get past me, when there were three rows completely empty behind me and eight empty rows in front of me. Idiots. I simply told them to go away, keeping the expletives in my head.

I was beginning to wonder whether there were any adults there with them, when I heard one of the boys call a man "Coach". This guy was sitting with seven or eight other adults in a little cluster, all paying far more attention to their own conversation and their beers than to either the game or the kids they'd apparently brought. These ostensible adults were in full view and earshot of the chaos and distraction being caused by their charges, and obviously didn't give a s**t. I'm assuming that this assemblage represented some kind of Baseball team; I wonder how they would feel if a dozen adults came to one of their games and acted the way they were acting at the game last night.

Roady
11-10-2013, 11:33 AM
I can understand being angry at the parents of misbehaving children. My children, from teenager to 8 years old, say thank you and yes sir no sir or yes ma'am and no ma'am. If I get a bad report about them or they don't respect others, especially their elders as I was taught, I will discipline them. I have always taught by children that there are consequences to your actions.

A child does not pick their parents or how they are raised. To call any child a derogatory name while being upset about their behavior is the height of hypocrisy. How can grown men who are supposed to be mature and level headed call children names at all?

It upsets me to hear grownups call children names and get so upset about them. I always thought as adults we would set the example not come down to the level we are complaining about.

godwulf
11-10-2013, 01:07 PM
You're right, of course - in most cases, it isn't the kid's fault that he or she is a brat. That fact doesn't make the label in any way less applicable.

sox83cubs84
11-10-2013, 09:09 PM
To each their own, I guess...but I still intend to call 'em as I see 'em.

Dave M.

xpress34
11-11-2013, 01:11 AM
I agree that it is selfish on the collectors/sellers part it but the player can always sign just one and move on to the next person.
Do they ever do that? Just say they can't sign that many for one person?
I have never asked for an autograph at a game so I don't know.

Roady -

I've been collecting autos for the better part of 30 years and for someone who doesn't do it, you seem to be very judgmental of those of us that do and you certainly like to make your opinion known about how you think we should handle ourselves and who we should let go first (kids), etc.

Unless you do chase autos (and I hate that term), then you really have no basis for most of your complaints about those of us that collect autos.

I am always more than polite - asking please and thank you - as well as knowing more about the person I asking for an autograph than that they are this week's 'flavor' or hot rookie or whatever.

I also try to educate newbies on good autograph etiquette - not screaming constantly, knowing who the players are, waiting for them to finish warming up, etc.

I also have seen the 'entitled' or 'entitlement' attitude grow each year as kids who have not been raised with any type of social manners push crawl and try to squeeze their was through without so much as an 'excuse me' or 'please' etc. while their parents 'coach them from a few rows back to just make their way past others - and I'm not just talking about adults. I'm talking about them squeezing other kids out as well.

So I'll back sox83cubs84 and godwulf when they call many of these children brats. It's not because they have upset me, it's because that is what they are. They are (as the vernacular was back in my day as a child), "spoiled brats" who have been raised to believe that they should always get their way and what they want and that even if they fail, they should be given and award/trophy for trying. I'm sorry if this upsets your apparently sensitive sensibilities, but I was raised with the idea that your learn from your failures and mistakes. I have a friend who has a 6 year old and when he called me this year to tell me that they no longer keep score or track outs in T-Ball and some Little Leagues, I asked why. He said they don't want any kids to be 'losers'. I think that ideology has a lot to do with the 'entitlement mindset' of a lot of these kids growing up today.

All that said, there is also the final piece to this puzzle - the kids who show up everyday with their parent(s) who pull their items back when 'Joe Schmoe' comes to sign, but turn on the kid cuteness when the big names or rookies come by. You really think these kids are getting these items for themselves?

There's a kid here in Denver who until last year when he had a growth spurt used his small stature to snag every big name or rookie - and bragged that he sold them all. He was almost 18 when he had the growth spurt but looked like he was 11 or 12. And there's plenty of other kids I've heard brag about how someone paid them to come down and get player X, Y or Z's auto.

I have a pretty good sense who the kids are that are truly just excited to get an auto - any auto - just for the sheer joy of it vs the ones who are working the system for themselves, their parents or a dealer.

Unfortunately, those 'kids' and the 'brats' make it tough to just want to move anytime a kid shows up.

And on a closing note, as I have told many players who have said they don't sign for anyone over 18... 'I appreciate you signing for the kids - you should sign for the kids - but don't forget who dropped $40, $50, $60 for that box seat. It certainly wan't that 6, 8,10, etc year old...' many have stopped. looked at me and realized that while children may be the future of the game and it's fans, adults and parents like myself are the ones who fund that.

So while I am happy that guys sign for the kids, I do not agree with your ideology that everyone should just step out of the way and let the kids get autographs. I understand the kids can't help what time they get there - but their parents certainly can.

Sorry for the long rant everyone.

All the best -

Smitty

Roady
11-11-2013, 01:56 AM
I don't have to chase auto's to tell the difference between acting like a man and acting like a child.

I have seen the "adults" pushing and shoving for an autograph, everyone sees them. If that makes you happy that's fine.

You can justify anything you want if it helps you sleep at night.
I sleep very well knowing that I act like a man and I let the children act like children.

xpress34
11-11-2013, 05:22 PM
I don't have to chase auto's to tell the difference between acting like a man and acting like a child.

I have seen the "adults" pushing and shoving for an autograph, everyone sees them. If that makes you happy that's fine.

You can justify anything you want if it helps you sleep at night.
I sleep very well knowing that I act like a man and I let the children act like children.

See - there is the problem. You are painting everyone with the same brush.

I have never pushed a child - or an adult for that matter - to get an autograph.

I have been pushed and shoved by many an adult and I have confronted the situation with the adult in an adult matter and moved on with my auto seeking.

I sleep just fine at night because I know that I am not guilty of any of the things you claim to know about 'adult' autograph seekers.

If I use that same 'broad brush' as you, you would appear to be an Elitist, 'Holier than Thou', Pious, Self Righteous, Indignant... well, you get the picture.

You're like anyone who puts down an activity, a book, a movie, a play, etc that they have never participated in, read or watched, but they believe they know everything about it.

You have no right to judge GodWulf, Dave M, myself or the countless others because for some unknown reason you seem to think you are better than other people.

Please come down from your Ivory Tower and let those who enjoy this part of the hobby enjoy it.

I have a question - when you have 'seen' grown men shove kids, have you done anything about? I doubt it.

I have. I'm a disabled vet who enjoys this part of the hobby - even when I have to deal with the jerks and the brats. You want to know what kind of autograph seeker I am? I'll tell you one story that should let you know.

At Hi Corbett in Tucson, years ago at Spring Training, there was 'kid' (he was 16 or so) in a wheelchair on the rail waiting for autographs. When Larry Walker came walking over, the crowd - mostly kids - starting literally climbin on his chair, some tried pushing him back, etc... I stepped in behind his chair (I didn't know the kid and I didn't see anyone else stepping in), reached around it and grabbed the railing and made the best shield around him I could.

When Walker got to the wall, he yelled at all the kids climbing on this kid and made them move back to give the kid room. He signed for the kid and he signed for me and he left. But I'm sure in your opinion, I should have given that autograph up to one of those 'deserving' brats that had no concern for a kid in a wheelchair.

So sorry Roady - but you don't really know jack about me or any of the other autograph seekers here - you just want everyone to fit into your very tightly constrained definition and accuse the group for the actions of the few.

I hope being so narrow minded helps you sleep well at night.

- Smitty

Roady
11-11-2013, 06:57 PM
Enjoy your hobby. :)

Billy77
11-11-2013, 07:34 PM
SMITTY...

Well stated and I agree with you 100%!!!

May your Sharpie never dry out in times of need!!!

Billy

sox83cubs84
11-11-2013, 10:27 PM
See - there is the problem. You are painting everyone with the same brush.

I have never pushed a child - or an adult for that matter - to get an autograph.

I have been pushed and shoved by many an adult and I have confronted the situation with the adult in an adult matter and moved on with my auto seeking.

I sleep just fine at night because I know that I am not guilty of any of the things you claim to know about 'adult' autograph seekers.

If I use that same 'broad brush' as you, you would appear to be an Elitist, 'Holier than Thou', Pious, Self Righteous, Indignant... well, you get the picture.

You're like anyone who puts down an activity, a book, a movie, a play, etc that they have never participated in, read or watched, but they believe they know everything about it.

You have no right to judge GodWulf, Dave M, myself or the countless others because for some unknown reason you seem to think you are better than other people.

Please come down from your Ivory Tower and let those who enjoy this part of the hobby enjoy it.

I have a question - when you have 'seen' grown men shove kids, have you done anything about? I doubt it.

I have. I'm a disabled vet who enjoys this part of the hobby - even when I have to deal with the jerks and the brats. You want to know what kind of autograph seeker I am? I'll tell you one story that should let you know.

At Hi Corbett in Tucson, years ago at Spring Training, there was 'kid' (he was 16 or so) in a wheelchair on the rail waiting for autographs. When Larry Walker came walking over, the crowd - mostly kids - starting literally climbin on his chair, some tried pushing him back, etc... I stepped in behind his chair (I didn't know the kid and I didn't see anyone else stepping in), reached around it and grabbed the railing and made the best shield around him I could.

When Walker got to the wall, he yelled at all the kids climbing on this kid and made them move back to give the kid room. He signed for the kid and he signed for me and he left. But I'm sure in your opinion, I should have given that autograph up to one of those 'deserving' brats that had no concern for a kid in a wheelchair.

So sorry Roady - but you don't really know jack about me or any of the other autograph seekers here - you just want everyone to fit into your very tightly constrained definition and accuse the group for the actions of the few.

I hope being so narrow minded helps you sleep well at night.

- Smitty

Smitty:

+1s on both posts.

Dave M.

abstractheory
11-12-2013, 01:46 AM
First, let me say that I'm not a big signature seeker and only desire "big name" and/or "legends of the game" sigs. This is why I only get my sigs at shows or organized events. This avoids a couple things: First, you are paying for a guaranteed sig and, of course, a chance to meet the player. Second, a nice clean autograph, suitable for display. And, finally, an organized event where people are not shoving and cutting in line or feeling like they are "entitled", for whatever reason. That being said, these are the kind of places, I feel, are most conducive/optimal for adults to obtain autographs (not saying adults shouldn't try other routes, just saying it eliminates almost everything irritating listed above...Including uncontrolled kids)

As a collector, I would never, ever dream of waiting for players after a game or before a game (however it works) for an autograph because of the reasons outlined from previous posts. I would not only expect a huge number of children to be there in wait, but, I would also expect players to sign for them first (I know I would if I was a player). Like I said, I don't know how these things work in an unorganized fashion, but, is there even such a thing as a line in these situations, or, is it really, just who can get the attention of the player first? Either way, I'm not saying people (adults) shouldn't do this, or that it's just for kids, but know I couldn't/wouldn't want to compete for an autograph within a sea of children.

Anyway, I can see both points, being a man-child (wife's term ;) ), myself and all, but, will only get autographs at organized/paid events. While I know this isn't always an option for a lot of players, I can't believe adults don't expect anything less at unorganized situations. Unfortunately, in today's world, I expect the worst behavior from people (kids and adults, alike); that way, I'm never surprised, nor disappointed.

godwulf
11-12-2013, 07:01 AM
I saw something funny at a Fall League game yesterday. Some guy handed Brewers catching prospect Adam Weisenburger a big piece of cardboard with - I kid you not - about 80 cards on it. The player was stunned. He asked why the guy had that many of his cards, and the guy just said he was an obsessive collector - that he had over 900,000 signed cards. Weisenburger took this big piece of cardboard out to the third base line where his teammates were warming up, to show it to them. Then he came back, asked the guy if he was going to take him to dinner, and proceeded to sign all the cards. It was only funny, I think, because nobody else was waiting for Adam to sign. I've had a few players take a bat that I'd brought for them to sign and go show it to their teammates, but have never seen it done with cards.

sportsnbikes
11-13-2013, 01:30 AM
I get autographs sometimes at the stadium because quite frankly, I can't afford the 100+ dollar charge that the bigger players get. I only get signatures of HOF'ers or future HOF'ers.

abstractheory
11-13-2013, 01:54 AM
I get autographs sometimes at the stadium because quite frankly, I can't afford the 100+ dollar charge that the bigger players get. I only get signatures of HOF'ers or future HOF'ers.

I hear that. It can be very expensive. Especially if you add inscriptions, which most charge more for. That's why I'm very, VERY selective about which ones I get (e.g: HOF'ers and future HOF'ers, like you)

jake33
11-13-2013, 05:29 PM
The "what player is that "question, really does get old. So I, wanted to go about getting auto's in a better way and get away from someone's ugly kid or casual fans that get a journeyman bullpen guy's autograph on a notecard and think it is worth $25.

I collect an autograph card of every player who ever played in the majors for the Rays and I typically just go to the team hotel in Chicago 1 or 2 days each year and am able to get all players from the active roster, except Longoria who will onyl sign at the game. I take a vacation day at work during the weekday, as there isn't that many people out getting autographs on a Wednesday in April on a cold day.

Most of those people are autograph dealers who are dirtballs, but their is usually less than 7 total peopel getting autographs and no kids around, which is really nice. Also the signatures at team hotels are way better looking than stadium autos.

Also, anything that is not a GU jersey that I have that is GU m I try tog et signed by the player and have gotten tons of gu helmets, gu balls, gu bats, gu bases, gu locker plates, and gu batting glove signed by the team hotel, so that too is pretty nice.

sox83cubs84
11-13-2013, 11:29 PM
Jake:

I recall meeting you at US Cellular Field several years ago. It's got a small number of collectors, and virtually no one from the hotel crowd. Of course, there are the kids to deal with, but the ones I've seen are, for the most part, not bratty. If ticket prices for the Cell are a turnoff, email me privately, and I'll give you some advice to save a few bucks.

Dave Miedema

jake33
11-14-2013, 06:32 AM
Thanks Dave, my issue is not really with the bratty kids at the cell, so much is it being a numbers game. A small crowd can be a pain to work around. Plus pitchers are often in the outfield and randomly move around, hitter are on schedule and overall just have a lo better luck at the team hotel.
Also in stadium autographs, are not as clean as what I pick up at the team hotel.

For getting Longoria, though, the cell is the best option.

godwulf
11-14-2013, 10:50 PM
...or casual fans that get a journeyman bullpen guy's autograph on a notecard and think it is worth $25.

I'm curious how you would know what a "casual fan" thinks his or her autos are worth. Sure, we all know people who have inflated notions of what the stuff they collect is worth to other people, but it usually doesn't become evident until they try to sell it on eBay, or at the card show.


Most of those people are autograph dealers who are dirtballs...

Speaking of dirtballs, I realized today that the guy who got the player to sign something like 80 cards at a Fall League game the other day (and it was Tony Wolters, not Meisenburger) was the son of the father-son team that I told the other story about...the dirtball auto dealers who pop up everywhere with the huge albums. So he was lying when he told the player that he was just "an obsessive collector" - like he was going to hoard all those identical signed cards.

jake33
11-15-2013, 06:27 AM
Godwolf, I have heard people over the years get some random auto on notebook paper and when the player leaves, he will ask the crowd of guys getting autographs, is he thinks it would be worth somewhere in the $10-$30 range. I have had this happen 3-4 times over the last couple years with 3-4 different people

godwulf
11-15-2013, 08:11 AM
Okay, that's weird. Yeah, I guess that people who, themselves, don't buy and collect a thing would likely have some strange ideas about value. Like the folks who wouldn't think of listing ANY major league jersey for less than $199, and want a grand for a run-of-the-mill HR ball of some minor star.

Back on the subject of dealers, the more I think about it, the more I think that the players who have it right are the ones who, when somebody pushes an album page with twenty cards in their face, signs ONE CARD and moves on. I would certainly sign, graciously and whenever possible, when asked, but I would have to draw the line at providing some random stranger with a living, at the cost of having to ignore a lot of folks who simply wanted my autograph because they were fans.

jake33
11-15-2013, 12:26 PM
To play devil's advocate, this is a postive I see about dealers though.

When players get made about people selling their autograph, that is understandable, but the people who are buying it are actually fans who for whatever reason are unable to meet the player to get the autograph themselves. It isnt like it goes to someone who displikes the player.

Not the best middleman opperation, at all, but the autos will eventually get into a fan's hand.... in theory.

godwulf
11-17-2013, 05:01 PM
Yeah, I can understand that perspective, and I think it's a valid one...as long as - and this is important - the player's time isn't so taken up by signing twelve cards for this dealer and fifteen cards for that dealer that the player's hand starts to cramp up, or it's time to go running off into the dugout or get in his car and go home, whatever, and the fan, kid or adult, with a single ball, photo or card is left standing there with nothing. I don't know whether you've seen this happen, but I certainly have - on numerous occasions. Sometimes I was one of the fans left with nothing.

As a player, I doubt that I would begrudge some guy the chance to make a few dollars on my autograph - especially not if I were a top prospect and was probably going to be earning a high six-figure salary (or more) in the Majors soon. As a fan, though, who enjoys getting the occasional autograph, I feel justified in resenting the half-dozen to ten guys with albums standing between me and the player, potentially taking up all of his time before he gets down to my spot in the line. Sure, some of those sigs are going to end up in the collections of folks who will never be able to get close enough to the player to get one in person - but what about all the fans who were close enough to get one, but weren't able to because the dealers took up all of the player's time?

dscards
11-17-2013, 08:21 PM
My personal 'graphing rule is that if I'm going to ask for multiples (more than putting two or 3 cards on a page), I'll get one signed and then go to the end of the line the player is signing for. When the player gets to me, I say "Mr. (whoever), you already signed one for me, but if you don't mind I have a few more cards I'd love if you'd sign". A few players have said "Only one" or "I already got you" and I know they would have signed for me had I not said anything, but the majority have no problem and a few have thanked me for being honest and waiting.

Kids can be incredibly rude. It's normally the kids/teenagers that make derogatory comments to players when they don't sign, and the majority of the pushing/shoving is done by younger graphers. I'm in my early 20s and have been graphing since I was 13ish. I was always the one there hours before and always had my research done. I was never pushed by an adult (though they often used their height to reach over me) but I was shoved around/budged in front of by other kids numerous times. Even caught a few kids trying to steal items out of my backpack after I had them signed. It always amazes me how many kids never got the memo on "Mr./Mrs." and "please/thank you".

Back to the original point of this thread...it does occasionally drive me crazy to see the pages of cards that get in front of players. I missed Josh Hamilton a few years back because a kid shoved his way in front of me and then put 9 cards in front of Josh. Josh left after signing the last one. But in my mind, it's the player's choice to sign 9 for 1 person instead of 1 for 9 people and I can't be unhappy about it.

sox83cubs84
11-17-2013, 08:42 PM
It's always an interesting exercise to try and figure out: if YOU were in the players' shoes, what would YOUR signing policies be? Most young people and hounds state without hesitation that they would sign for anyone who asked at anytime. Of course, if they were in agony with a kidney stone trying to hail a cab, or standing in the men's room taking a whizz, or being interrupted when conversing with a friend by a rude signature seeker, they may feel differently. (BTW, all three of those thing have happened at hotels or ballparks in Chicago, with the same guy guilty of the first and third instance).

For me, I WOULDN'T sign for anyone at anytime. I'd answer by-mail requests within reason, but I would not sign at my hotel (to me, an invasion of privacy) nor would I sign outside the park (too many dealers and hoarders). I WOULD, however, be willing to sign for as many fans as time allowed inside the stadium. IMHO, the people who buy tickets are supporting the game, and autograph signing is a way of showing appreciation for that support. The autograph dealers and hoarders and hotel invaders are usually seeking something for nothing. But, for a person who is willing to make the expenditure of buying a ticket, even if it's the cheapest in the house, to me that shows they care enough about the game to warrant attention and autographs. Sure, I know that some dealers and hoarders will buy tickets, too, but at that point they are financially supporting the game...whether or not they sold my autograph afterwards would not be important to me.

I'm curious what other GUU members would see themselves doing if they were the celebrities being asked?

Dave Miedema

dscards
11-17-2013, 09:03 PM
Really good question Dave.

For me, I would try and sign whenever I was approached politely and I had the time. As someone who has 'graphed since I was a kid, I know how a scribbled signature from a ballplayer can make someone's day. In the extra ten minutes it takes me to get home at night because I stopped to sign outside the park, I could make a lot of people happy. Also as a 'grapher, I know that adults autograph seekers aren't usually the scum of the earth like they're made out to be. Many are genuine fans who appreciate the autograph much more than a kid sticking a sharpie in the face of anyone in a uniform. (That said, I would absolutely make an effort to make sure every kid who wanted one left with an autograph.) I think I'm pretty good at picking out dealers and wouldn't mind saying "only one" to someone who gave me that vibe. I'd make sure all fan mail requests got signed, though I could see myself being one of the players who waited until the off-season to do the majority of it.
Would I have days when I'm not in a good mood/poor performance/life when I wouldn't feel like dealing with hordes of people? I'm sure. To say that I'd sign in every situation would be foolish. But, my general rule would be that if a fan was polite and respectful to me, I would be the same back and try to accommodate their autograph request.

dscards
11-17-2013, 09:07 PM
To add:

And in response to the person asking me to sign a page/sheet/absurd amount of cards, if there was a crowd and I felt like I might not have time to get everyone, I'd sign 1-3 for the person and ask them if they would wait until I finished signing for the rest. It'd make sure I got to as many people as possible and that I didn't have to rush my signature to finish up the page of cards.

godwulf
11-17-2013, 11:41 PM
Of course, if they were in agony with a kidney stone trying to hail a cab, or standing in the men's room taking a whizz, or being interrupted when conversing with a friend by a rude signature seeker, they may feel differently.

A few years ago, a former Major League pitcher was coaching in the Fall League, and I had one of his GU uniform caps that I wanted to get signed. He came out of the dugout after a game, and I was about to call him over, when he walked over to the screen and began speaking with a woman whom I realized was the coach's wife. I kept my distance until they parted, and then came over and respectfully asked the man to sign. The first words out of his mouth, even before I said anything, were, "Thanks for waiting." A little common courtesy really does go a long way.

jtnatalierica
11-18-2013, 01:09 AM
Got a good multiple autograph card signing. When I was with the Tigers as a batting practice pitcher, I used to hang around with Jim Walewander. When we were sitting at our lockers after bp, he showed me a plastic box containing about 15 of his cards wanting them autographed. He laid them in the floor one next to another and script wrote his full name, J_I_M_W_A_L_E_W_A_N_D_E_R across all 15 cards, picked them up, put them back and stated "Let me see how much they can get for this card with the E on it, or the N on it". Laughed my butt off.

godwulf
11-19-2013, 02:12 PM
I purchased a Diamondbacks equipment bag on eBay from former MLB pitcher Bob Wolcott some years ago - I seem to recall that another board member got his Seattle one - and in the course of emailing back and forth I asked him whether he'd mind if I sent a few cards for him to autograph. He said sure, so I sent him, I think, four or five cards, and they came back nicely signed, with two others that I didn't have and which he just made me a present of. You can't get too much more accomodating than that!

chakes89
11-19-2013, 09:29 PM
Annoying kids are one thing and that is to be expected but the grown man "fan boys" that show up the to park everyday with pages and pages of cards and hound the players for equipment and that think they are "friends" with the players are just a whole other level of creepy/desperate/sad.

These guys fall into these false realities and think they are best friends with a player because they talk to them for a minute, or because they give them crappy photos they have taken of them or because they give them newspaper clippings. And then after all that have the nerve to expect autographs, bats or other equipment because they have bestowed such an amazing, unsolicited and, most of the time, completely unwanted "gift" upon them. Never mind that they usually appear pathetically desperate and just downright creepy. It's really quite sad actually.

And this is coming from the perspective of someone (me) that has worked in pro ball for a long time now and I have seen/heard this first hand from players, other fans and co-workers all throughout the years.

At one time, I was an avid in-person autograph collector, ages 11-16, but I had to stop at my local park (where I work) because the local "hounds" made up rumors about me my first season that, among other things, had me stealing the home jersey of one our more prominent players at the time during a long road trip. I was livid when I found out about this because it would have cost me job had it made it around to anyone in the company that actually believed it.

So I am a little jaded when it comes to the "fan boys"

r_phelps
11-20-2013, 09:20 AM
I have never really been to big into autographs but I bought a lot of 75 different Daryle Ward card in 2003 for like $10 shipped. I worked in baseball at the time and gave these to Daryle for his personal collection because previously he had mentioned he collected his and his dad Gary's cards. He thanked me and told me that he actually needed a few of those cards. He walked by me a few days later and without speaking handed me all but 3 of the cards back he kept autographed. All of the autographs on the 72 cards are signed very carefully. I was surprised to say the least but the impression I got from it all was that Daryle Ward was a class act.
Now for the creepy autograph guys a lot of times I have heard players say that if somebody is going to ask you to sign ridiculous amounts that they do sloppy initial signatures or just do a couple. It kills me to hear guys complaing because they didn't sign ENOUGH for them. I have also heard dealers saying they earn the right to sell their autographs on ebay because they put the time,money,and effort into getting them signed. Expenses such as card cost, shipping,pens,gas,tickets,ebay fees, etc. I really don't care just my 2 cents.

xpress34
11-20-2013, 02:16 PM
This is in response to the last two posts...

1st to chakes89 - and maybe I'm reading too much into what you wrote - some people (based on your description) might call me a 'fan boy' based on my connections with certain players over the past few years at Coors Field.

I just want to clarify that I am not a card guy, but some players - when you have certain items of theirs to get signed - do become 'friendly' with certain fans. A few cases that have happened to me:

Matt Holliday - ever since Matt saw me roll out his 1st MLB Spring Training jersey in 2004 when he got called up, he and I have been 'friendly' (for lack of a better term). He has always made time to stop and see what I have to get signed - always unique items (not cards) and even since he went to the Cards, he has made time at least one day each time he's been back to sign whatever I've collected over the past year.

Eric Young Jr - a little different connection. I met EY when he 1st got drafted by the Rockies and always saw him at Spring Training. In 2009 (his MLB Call Up) I retrieved his 1st MLB HR. I made sure I got to see him to give it to him and got a GU ball in return. Since then, he has always made time to say hello, support our RockNation club, and before being traded, stopped twice on his way in to gift me with Cleats and Batting Gloves to finish a Mannequin that has his 1st Rockies Uniform (and the 1st MLB HR Uniform) on it including his Batting helmet.

Jason Giambi - I was fortunate enough to be able to snag Jason's 1st Rockies Uniform from Sept 2009 (same uniform he is wearing in his 1st Rockies cards) and he came over to sign it at Spring Training in 2010 and we started talking. Since then, he has always been gracious in making times for items I have added to the collection and at Fan Fest in 2012, my friends were floored when he was walking past and pointed me out, called me by name and stopped to say hello to everyone.

Finally Michael Cuddyer. I met Michael more directly and in a more 'one on one' interaction when one of my techs asked me to come help him with a Cable/Internet/Phone install in 2012 and it was at Michael's house. While I was setting up his Internet and WiFi and all, we talked for a good two hours and Michael too has gone out of his way when he sees me to sign items I have for him and he gifted me a pair of Batting Gloves at the end of last season.

I have the same kind of relationship with a few other up and coming Rockies too, but those are the best known names.

Does that make me a 'fan-boy' per your definition? I have no notion that we are best buds or that we're going out for beers, but it's also not the situation you described.

My point being - you're description doesn't fit every situation and many times, people don't know the whole background behind who really knows who or how they know each other.

2nd to r_phelps - I agree with you that many 'dealers' complain about not getting enough signed, etc... we have a few people here at Coors Field that claim they aren't dealers, but they are the only ones who get upset and bent out of shape when they don't get the autograph they we're seeking (maybe they had already 'guaranteed' someone that autograph?) or when a player only signs one item per person.

You're point about the 'right to sell their autographs' isn't without merit, but it's also a sticky point on the other side. I don't collect autographs to sell, but I do understand the cost of selling - postage, packing materials, etc - having sold here, on eBay, etc over the years.

I generally sell to raise funds for a new piece for my collection, or because I picked up a lot of items for one or two pieces and the rest will be resold. I do also sell because I need space or to give my wife and kid a nice vacation.birthday/Christmas...I try to be fair in my pricing, but when some people low ball you AND want free shipping, there are times it would literally cost money to sell the item - meaning that after shipping/packaging, etc, you're spending more than you're getting for the item... so there is that side to the coin as well.

To all - thanks for letting me rant - now I'll digress and step off the soap box...

- Smitty

Billy77
11-20-2013, 10:43 PM
Smitty...Once again AMEN!!!;)

I like your style :D

Steeleraddict
11-21-2013, 04:25 PM
Putting myself to when I was a wide eyed hero worshipping 10 year old. That meeting and kinda also the autograph lasts a lifetime. Nothing more dishearting than being that kid or, worse, seeing that kid waiting for a sig. as some adult pulls out 20+ photos, cards to be signed. The players time is limited so the kid any everyone knows he may not meet his childhood hero or get a signature.
So, to that, maybe the adult gets one or two then goes to the end of the line. This is when they're are free. Now if u bought tickets per sig then diff story.
But the free ones is a whole diff story. I for one won't contribute to crushing a boys dream, his possible only chance. if ur intent is honorable any want it as a souvenir then get ur two then share the wealth. Enuf. No ones opinion is going to change

sox83cubs84
11-21-2013, 11:17 PM
Got a good multiple autograph card signing. When I was with the Tigers as a batting practice pitcher, I used to hang around with Jim Walewander. When we were sitting at our lockers after bp, he showed me a plastic box containing about 15 of his cards wanting them autographed. He laid them in the floor one next to another and script wrote his full name, J_I_M_W_A_L_E_W_A_N_D_E_R across all 15 cards, picked them up, put them back and stated "Let me see how much they can get for this card with the E on it, or the N on it". Laughed my butt off.

Great story. In the mid-1980s, a local dealer was loading up on Buddy Biancalana autographs. When the dealer presented Buddy with two more 1985 Topps cards, he signed his first name on one and his last name on the other.

Dave M.

chakes89
11-24-2013, 09:26 PM
Smitty, can't really answer your question because I don't know you.

And as for my term "Fan Boy," I equate it to be a male version of the term "Cleat Chasers," which if unfamiliar, is a term used to describe overzealous or "stalkerish" female fans.

Seen a fair share of "Cleat Chasers" in my day as well. And talk about desperate..........

xpress34
11-25-2013, 05:25 AM
Smitty, can't really answer your question because I don't know you.

And as for my term "Fan Boy," I equate it to be a male version of the term "Cleat Chasers," which if unfamiliar, is a term used to describe overzealous or "stalkerish" female fans.

Seen a fair share of "Cleat Chasers" in my day as well. And talk about desperate..........

I know very well what a Cleat Chaser is - we have plenty of them here at Coors Field and down in Colorado Springs at Triple A as well...

I was just making the argument that you statement about 'fan boys' was a rather generalized statement. It's all good.

Not too many baseball terms that I am unfamiliar with having followed the game my whole life (I turn 50 a month from Wednesday) and having worked for both Nike and Rawlings.

mdb240
12-11-2013, 02:29 PM
I like to read the boards here but hardly ever post. Would like to share my experience with a future HOF.

I always loved Frank Thomas growing up (I am now 31), and always wanted to meet the man and possibly get his autograph. Only problem is that I live in Philadelphia so Frank hardly ever came to play against the Phillies. I always went to the Sox vs. Phillies games that I could just to see my guy live and in person for his 1 trip to plate as a Pinch Hitter.

Anyway, While he was with the Blue Jays they held an exhibition game vs the Phillies right before so I knew I had to go. I was going to do everything in my power to say hi to him and maybe get a photo with him.

I made a poster that said, "The big hurt, please sign my baseball" and brought with me a press photo I had from my younger days that I used to have on my night stand. Before the game there was a minor leaguer talking to his family and when there was a break in the conversation I said, if you see this man(holding up my pic of him) in the locker room tell him I have been waiting for him for a long time and tell him to please come over so I could say hi. In they go and after a couple of minutes the team comes out, including Frank, who I imediately yell for. He raises his arm like he hears me and is acknowledging it. hmm... something is up.

He gets done warming up and walks right over to me and asks if he could sign my baseball (as I nervously drop the pen). Out of nowhere all these people around me come over and start asking him for his auto, (books and bats thrown in his face), he asks me if there is anything else I would like signed.. " do you want the sign autographed? Sure why not :). He also signed my photo. On the way back to the dugout he signed a few more autographs but I know he came right over to me. I would thank the minor leaguer but I don't really know who he was but we did get his auto on my wife's ticket. I couldn't believe what just happened so about the 5th inning after calling my family to tell what happened.. I finally got to watch some of the game.

Fast forward to 2013 and the All-Star fanfest. I decided to wear my Frank Thomas jersey in the hopes he would happen to be there. I knew he was doing an autograph signing in a NYC store so it couldn't hurt. I was near the MLB.COM set they had set up and hear " up next, catch up with Frank Thomas".... Sat in audience, asked one of my favorite athletes a question for the show. Afterwards he signed my jersey as I got my brother to stand in line for me as I watched the show. After he was done signing for everyone I was still on his side of the table (behind the ropes) and asked if I could get a picture with him. He was gracious enough to do so and wanted it to be a good one so he had up do it twice... no complaints on my end. Now it sits on my work desk as I write this. His arm around me while I am wearing his jersey.

See you in Cooperstown Frank, I will be there.

gorphils
12-11-2013, 03:17 PM
I, as a woman, have been collecting and seeking autographs for over 40 years. I agree with smitty and a few others on here on kids thinking they are entitled to an autograph over adults and that adults should just move out of the way so the "brats" can get theirs. And yes I call them brats..I normally let the kids go first but if they are being pushy and annoying I stand my ground. These brats have no social skills what so ever and the parents use the ballpark as a place to baby sit them. A ball comes my way its mine unless I see a kid who has been behaving nicely or is shy...then I nicely give it to them. I do not believe every kid deserves that same entitlement. When I was eight or nine I went and hung arund the Orioles dugout and I was happy to get an autograph or two if it happened....and I didn't feel like it was necessary to act the way some of these kids do.....standing in front of my seat, running thru the concourse, and my favorite.....asking me to move from my seat when the row in front or behind is completely empty! Its funny to see them look at me and when I tell them no. I could tell many stories...lol. Had I acted the way some of these kids do when I was their age..I would never have been allowed to go to another game. It might sound like Im nasty to the kids but for the most part I try and help them get their autographs but not if they are stepping on me or asking me to move.

jmeekins33
12-14-2013, 04:04 AM
In the rare instances where I do ask a player for an autograph I only ask for one. I understand those folks that try to get a few things signed and it doesn't bother me at all if the player is willing. I'm concerned however, when people go overboard because it often sours athletes on signing and it can make all autograph seekers look bad.

There was one exception. In 1993 I went to Cleveland Browns training camp and Bernie Kosar graciously signed two things for me. That was a big thrill. I usually don't get star struck but at that time Bernie Kosar was the next closest thing to God in my eyes. I was so relieved to find that he was such a generous and nice person. After a long practice he signed and signed until everyone was satisfied. Rare.