Reselling items not in your possession

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  • ChrisCavalier
    Paid Users
    • Jan 1970
    • 1967

    Reselling items not in your possession

    Hello Everyone,

    As a side topic alluded to in a previous thread, I wanted to make sure collectors are aware there is a possibility you may be dealing with someone who is looking to resell an item they do not physically have in their possession.

    Please note I am not stating that was the backdrop for why the item was returned in the thread that was deleted. In fact, the buyer claimed there was a different reason for the item being returned (determining whether true or not is outside of the scope of this forum). However, I think it is very useful for collectors to be aware that there are people in the marketplace who may be looking to resell items that they do not have in their possession.

    While some people do not have a problem with the fact that people are looking to act as a type of "broker" or that they are looking to "flip" an item for a profit, I think it is worth noting that there are possible implications that might be inherent in that type of transaction. For example, if the item is not physically in the person's possession when they are looking to sell it, they may not be able to accrue the item even after a deal is reached. Or, if they are buying an item from you for resale, they may not come through if their buyer backs out of the resale arrangement.

    While I do not believe it is illegal to look to resell items you do not have in your possession, I highly suggest you clarify with the other party up front if they physically have the item they are looking to sell or if they are looking to resell it if they are buying from you. Regarding the latter, I would also highly suggest you define any return policy up front, including requirements for a return (like a rejection letter from an authentication company, etc), to make sure there are no complications later.

    Happy to hear members comments on the topic. However, please note this thread is intended to be an educational thread and not one to grip about previous transactions or make accusations toward other parties. There are many collectors who may have limited experience in the buying/selling process and this thread is designed to help educate them on possible implications and the thread will be moderated as such.

    Thanks in advance for your cooperation.

    -Chris
    Christopher Cavalier
    Consignment Director - Heritage Auctions
  • Roady
    Senior Member
    • Jun 2012
    • 1430

    #2
    Re: Reselling items not in your possession

    I would think that selling something that you do not own is illegal.

    Comment

    • ChrisCavalier
      Paid Users
      • Jan 1970
      • 1967

      #3
      Re: Reselling items not in your possession

      Originally posted by Roady
      I would think that selling something that you do not own is illegal.
      There are plenty of people in the marketplace who act as "brokers" which I do not believe is illegal. If an authority on legal matters has additional perspective, please feel free to provide that information.

      -Chris
      Christopher Cavalier
      Consignment Director - Heritage Auctions

      Comment

      • KGoldin
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2012
        • 1672

        #4
        Re: Reselling items not in your possession

        Offering it for sale is not illegal
        Concluding a transaction and taking someone else's money with no intent to deliver is. Illegal.
        In the trading card world ( more then gu) there are Many well known "brokers" that run web sites listing cards for sale they do not own, but supposedly have permission to list. The famous t206 honus Wagner listed on eBay ( psa 1) is not owned by the person listing it, nor is it in their possession.
        I had a problem with one of these brokers when a card that was consigned to Goldin Auctions was listed on their web site for sale while my catalog was going to press! Apparently they had it listed there for several weeks before the consignor gave it to me, and I had to call them and my consignor to have it removed.
        It is frustrating as hell, but these people try to insert themselves into a transaction without laying out any cash, without overhead and without the risk of carrying inventory. As long as they actually deliver what is sold, there is no legal issue. Many ( including me) may dislike the practice, but it is more common then you think especially on the card side , and not illegal unless they do not perform.

        Comment

        • Steeleraddict
          Senior Member
          • Nov 2012
          • 229

          #5
          Re: Reselling items not in your possession

          Well said. It's exactly like the car dealer that says, " yeah, I can get you that 2014 range rover." which he does not have on his lot. and takes your money. Paid, done deal. Now it's on him to deliver and complete the deal. Meet the criteria of the contract. Or else it's fraud. But not illegal if he finds you one.

          Comment

          • Takuleechch
            Banned
            • Jul 2011
            • 229

            #6
            Re: Reselling items not in your possession

            When you say outside the scope of this forum does that mean that no one here could have helped solved the problem?

            Comment

            • ChrisCavalier
              Paid Users
              • Jan 1970
              • 1967

              #7
              Re: Reselling items not in your possession

              Originally posted by Takuleechch
              When you say outside the scope of this forum does that mean that no one here could have helped solved the problem?
              No, I am saying trying to determine whether or not the stated motives of the buyer for returning the item were true was outside the scope of the administrators of this forum.

              Please note the rationale for why that thread was closed has been explained already and is NOT the topic of this thread.

              Thanks,
              Chris
              Christopher Cavalier
              Consignment Director - Heritage Auctions

              Comment

              • Takuleechch
                Banned
                • Jul 2011
                • 229

                #8
                Re: Reselling items not in your possession

                WOW sorrryyy was just asking a question about your post on this thread

                Comment

                • Takuleechch
                  Banned
                  • Jul 2011
                  • 229

                  #9
                  Re: Reselling items not in your possession

                  Flipping items isn't new and isn't illegal. That from what I've been told that issue wasn't raised recently. People do it all the time
                  In fact I always see people on this forum offering "finders fees" to people who can find them an item which in a way could be considered the same thing

                  Comment

                  • Roady
                    Senior Member
                    • Jun 2012
                    • 1430

                    #10
                    Re: Reselling items not in your possession

                    Originally posted by ChrisCavalier
                    There are plenty of people in the marketplace who act as "brokers" which I do not believe is illegal. If an authority on legal matters has additional perspective, please feel free to provide that information.

                    -Chris
                    The only way I can see it being not illegal is if the original owner knows what is taking place and give his/her approval.
                    This isn't the stock market.

                    Comment

                    • Roady
                      Senior Member
                      • Jun 2012
                      • 1430

                      #11
                      Re: Reselling items not in your possession

                      Originally posted by Steeleraddict
                      Well said. It's exactly like the car dealer that says, " yeah, I can get you that 2014 range rover." which he does not have on his lot. and takes your money. Paid, done deal. Now it's on him to deliver and complete the deal. Meet the criteria of the contract. Or else it's fraud. But not illegal if he finds you one.

                      You cannot sell another persons legal property to anyone else without their consent, period.

                      Comment

                      • Roady
                        Senior Member
                        • Jun 2012
                        • 1430

                        #12
                        Re: Reselling items not in your possession

                        Fiipping is buying low and selling higher.

                        It is not selling goods that do not belong to you. That is fraud.

                        Comment

                        • Takuleechch
                          Banned
                          • Jul 2011
                          • 229

                          #13
                          Re: Reselling items not in your possession

                          Originally posted by Roady
                          You cannot sell another persons legal property to anyone else without their consent, period.
                          Ummm that's obvious and also not what I'm saying.
                          I'm saying it's not uncommon for people to find something they know someone wants and offer it around to flip. I've heard if people doing that all the time and it's not illegal.

                          Comment

                          • Takuleechch
                            Banned
                            • Jul 2011
                            • 229

                            #14
                            Re: Reselling items not in your possession

                            For example, I was looking for an item and posted a post a while ago in the items wanted page. A member emailed saying they could get me what I was looking for. They didn't own it but could get it. You really think they sold it to me for as much as they got it for? I doubt that very much. I have received a lot of emails saying peoples "friends" have this or can "get" that. It's pretty much the same thing they just disclose they don't personally have the item
                            The only thing illegal would have been if they didn't end up delivering the item. If I get the item I paid for from someone - as long as they obtain it legally - there is nothing illegal happening.

                            Comment

                            • emann
                              Senior Member
                              • Nov 2008
                              • 904

                              #15
                              Re: Reselling items not in your possession

                              Originally posted by Roady
                              The only way I can see it being not illegal is if the original owner knows what is taking place and give his/her approval.
                              This isn't the stock market.
                              +1.

                              This concept is new to me. Unbelievably shady if you don't either own the item or have an agreement with the person who does. There is flipping and there is acting as a broker, this is neither.

                              If you're just grabbing photos from an unknown seller's listing and then offering that item for sale—you're running a scam.

                              Comment

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