02 Manning on Ebay

[gujerseylover]

Just curious what other people think. The sleeves on this jersey look way too small.

http://cgi.ebay.com/2002-PEYTON-MANNING-GAME-USED-COLTS-HOME-JERSEY-PSI_W0QQitemZ8739034828QQcategoryZ86829QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I was looking at photos of manning from 2002 and look at the sleeves on this jersey

http://editorial.gettyimages.com/source/search/details_pop.aspx?iid=1716773&cdi=0

I understand it is a different color, but for a quarterback's jersey they look way too small. It almost looks like an authentic jersey with a year tag sewn in. I'm not making any accusations, I'm just curious if anyone else agrees with me, because this is the second one from this seller that I have seen, and I don't feel comfortable bidding on it if it is not real.

[mchmaj]

Re: 02 Manning on Ebay

you forgot one more thing .....
the colts wears 50th anniv patch on left shoulder during 2002 season and this is game worn, where is the patch ??


marcus

[Eric]

Re: 02 Manning on Ebay

Here's a shot of the patch which appeared on all of their regular season home and away jerseys in 2002



Here is a shot of the sleeve length


Can anyone find pics of Peyton wearing shorter sleeves in 2002?

[gujerseylover]

Re: 02 Manning on Ebay

I have looked at every picture I can find from 2002 season, and none of them have a short sleeve length. Also, upon re-reading the auction description, he says "REMNANTS OF WHERE 50TH ANNIVERSARY PATCH WAS IS EVIDENT AND WAS REMOVED" Now why would anyone ever remove a 50th anniversary patch from a Peyton Manning jersey? This does not make sense either.

[hof89]

Re: 02 Manning on Ebay

Jersey appears to have had "cuffed" sleeves at one point, which were removed and re-sewn to look open. With that, there is not enough length to the sleeves...if Manning was to put this jersey on, would the sleeves hang the same way as they do of him in the photo? No. Moreover, compare the length of material on the sleeves after the #'s from the jersey being offered vs. the photo of Manning...not a match...

p.s....I have seen several sellers trying to sell game wor or issued jerseys on EBAY, were the sleeves don't look right....i.e..."cuffed" at one point, removed, and re-sewn to looked open....

[Eric]

Re: 02 Manning on Ebay

I have looked at every picture I can find from 2002 season, and none of them have a short sleeve length. Also, upon re-reading the auction description, he says "REMNANTS OF WHERE 50TH ANNIVERSARY PATCH WAS IS EVIDENT AND WAS REMOVED" Now why would anyone ever remove a 50th anniversary patch from a Peyton Manning jersey? This does not make sense either.

We have seen many examples of this. In other threads we have spoken extensively about Yankees Steiner selling 1997 game used jerseys with the Jackie Robinson patch removed.

Eric

[trsent]

Re: 02 Manning on Ebay

Since, the owner of PSI is Bernie Gernay, and he is an expert listed on this website, maybe he can shed some light in how he authenticated and is selling these Colts jerseys? I just can't believe there has been no response.

[Bernie J. Gernay]

Re: 02 Manning on Ebay

Thanks for inquiring. These Colts jerseys came from the team last year. In fact, every item we obtain comes from either the team (equipment managers) or players. It is impossible to photomatch every jersey you see according to sleeve length, tail length, etc. and because you can't, doesn't necessarily mean the item is not authentic which I'm sure many of you know already. When we received these Colts jerseys it was an option to put the 50th patches on them but doing so would not make them in the original condition in which we received them. If anyone has additional questions please feel free to contact me at BJGERNAY@aol.com

[trsent]

Re: 02 Manning on Ebay

Thank you for the reply, Bernie, very professional.

Happy Holidays!

[kingjammy24]

Re: 02 Manning on Ebay

Bernie et al,
Actually, the great part about an NFL season is the fact that because the season is a mere 16 games, you actually can photomatch every jersey. So without further adieu, I present to you every single game of 2002 in which Peyton Manning wore a blue jersey. Bernie, seeing as how this is photo-proof of every single 2002 game, in which of these exactly did Peyton wear short sleeves?




Rudy.

[Nathan]

Re: 02 Manning on Ebay

I don't pay much attention to what he wears in the NFL, but I can confirm that Peyton wore uncuffed long sleeves from 1994-97 while at Tennessee.

[kingjammy24]

Re: 02 Manning on Ebay

Gujerseylover,

I hope you weren't one of the 32 poor saps who placed a bid
on this sad jersey?

Rudy.

[chris13]

Re: 02 Manning on Ebay

As someone relatively new to this hobby I found this post to be very interesting. I was considering bidding on this item too before seeing the comments posted by hof89 and the pictures posted by kingjammy24.

I'm still trying to figure out the best way to research these items before bidding. Out of curiosity how were you able to find all the photos rudy?

Any other insight to doing your homework would be appreciated as well.

[Nathan]

Re: 02 Manning on Ebay

chris13,

Welcome!

As any collector worth his salt can tell you, doing homework is the most important part of deciding whether or not to buy a particular jersey. There's various ways to do it.

1) Photographic archives -- Getty Images (gettyimages.com) has an extensive archive from every sporting event known to man. Although it's not always possible to gain a slam-dunk photomatch from Getty, you can get a good sense for what certain players wear.

It also allows you to see the slight nuances between certain years of a team's style. For example, my area is U of Tennessee football, and I can tell you that although they appear alike, every year from 1989-2004 had a difference in the jersey from the previous year that the "average person" might never pick up on.

2) Video -- Even better than photographs; since a good clear video can be played clearly on just about any size TV (or run into a computer for video capture), you can get a better sense for what was worn and how.

Video actually refuted a jersey I own; I have a Tennessee jersey from 1992 used by fullback Mose Phillips. Thanks to a video that showed a strangely placed size tag, I was able to determine that it wasn't the same one worn during his famous 66-yard scamper against Florida in a monsoon that year. Somewhat disappointing, but it made the history of the jersey more clear

3) Reading materials -- Always a good (and very underused) resource

4) Asking other collectors -- There's a TON of information to be had among collectors. If anyone needs to know about Philadelphia Phillies stuff, Howard Wolf has an encyclopedic mind for much of their history. I'd put more faith in him than I ever would "Lou Lampson". And most collectors know more about their chosen area of specialty than even the players or (in some cases) the equipment guys themselves.

[kingjammy24]

Re: 02 Manning on Ebay

chris (et al),

in this particular instance, i first found the colt's 2002 schedule from nfl.com. i wanted to be absolutely certain that i had every single game from a reliable source. interestingly enough, when you look at individual game re-caps on nfl.com, they'll sometimes have photos from that particular game. at any rate, i went to gettyimages.com and one by one, i started looking for each game. the dates on the getty images matched the colt's schedule perfectly. additionally, i intentionally chose pictures which showed the opposing team so that nobody could say that my pictures weren't really from the specific games i'm claiming. luckily, thanks to nfl.com and gettyimages it was all pretty easy. bernie is claiming that his jersey was worn in one of those games. well, with every single game posted, i don't see bernie's jersey anywhere. this leaves 4 possibilities:
1) bernie's jersey is a fake
2) the indianapolis colts are selling fake jerseys
3) during one of the 2002 games, peyton decided to change mid-game into a jersey with short sleeves and thus i didn't get the exact picture
of the second, "short sleeve" jersey that he changed into.
4) after a game, peyton gave his jersey back to the colts who then decided to shorten the sleeves before giving it to bernie.

regarding research: i collect baseball jerseys. so i tend to start with bill henderson's "mlb style guide". it's not 100% complete or 100% correct, but it's one of the best things out there. after confirming things with bill's guide, i'll go to gettyimages.com, the mlb.com photo archives, google images search, my own baseball cards, etc. i'll even go on ebay to search baseball cards because sometimes the seller will show a closeup of the card(s) they're selling. i'll also search the results of lelands, mastronet, greyflannel to see if i can find any more insight into the particular jersey i'm looking to buy. lelands' search option includes the ability to search every single past auction. then i'll talk to anyone who i think might know about the jersey i want to buy. if everything lines up, i'll move forward.
it's even better if the jersey has great provenance, eg: if it's directly from a team or player. if not, then i think the jersey should be able to stand on it's own given my research.

rudy.