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3arod13
12-08-2006, 05:03 AM
I’m curious to know if anyone has seen an earlier documented Alex Rodriguez Game Used & Signed Home Run (#15) Bat than this one. This bat has solid documentation from Alex Rodriguez (AROD Authentic), SCD Authentic, PSA/DNA, and also a letter from the Rawlings/Adirondack company verifying that this model bat (460B) was made for Alex Rodriguez in 1996, with only 12 being made.

Rawlings Letter: Per your email dated April 21, 2006, you have inquired about the following Rawlings/Adirondack Model 460B, Alex Rodriguez game model bat. Per our records, 12 bats of this style were made for Mr. Rodriguez during the 1996 season. Bill Steele, Professional Bat Operations Specialist

PSA/DNA Letter: Alex Rodriguez 1996 Rawlings Signed Home Run #15 Bat. Offered is what we believe to be the earliest documented Alex Rodriguez home run bat. This bat was used by Rodriguez to hit his 15th home run of the season (20th of his career) in 1996, his first full season in the Majors. The black Rawlings 34-1/2 oz. bat is composed of top grade white ash and features the name “Alex Rodriguez” stamped on the barrel in white black letters. The model number (460B), as well as the batch code (149) and year code (96) are stamped on the knob. All of the manufacturer’s stampings remain distinct and well defined. Rodriguez has inscribed the bat in sliver Sharpie (“10”) on the sweet spot of the barrel, “Alex Rodriguez – HR#15 – 1996.” The bat is uncracked and displays heavy game use throughout including a number of deep ball marks on the barrel and pine tar on the handle. The bat is accompanied by an LOA (signed by Rodriguez) from Arod Authenticated which reads, “I, Alex Rodriguez, hereby verify that this 460 Black Rawlings was the bat that I used on June 25, 1996 when I hit my 15th home run of the season, which was my 20th career home run. This home run was hit against the Toronto blue Jays off of Erik Hanson.” Prior to its consignment, this bat was submitted to SCD Authentic and received a grade of A10. A corresponding hologram sticker appears on the end of the barrel. Additional LOA’s from Dan Knoll & Dave Bushing/SCD Authentic, and James Spence & Steve Grad/PSADNA.

Arod Authentic Letter: “I, Alex Rodriguez, hereby verify that this 460 Black Rawlings was the bat that I used on June 25, 1996 when I hit my 15th home run of the season, which was my 20th career home run. This home run was hit against the Toronto blue Jays off of Erik Hanson.”

Baseball Almanac: Click on this link to see the box score for this game between the Seattle Mariners and Toronto Blue Jay on 25 June 1996. The box score is an accurate record of events for the baseball contest played on June 25, 1996 at Skydome, and reflects Alex Rodriguez hitting his #15th Home Run of the season off of Erik Hanson in the 5th inning, with 2 on and 0 out.

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/box-scores/boxscore.php?boxid=199606250TOR

E–Hitchcock (1). DP–Seattle 1, Toronto 1. 2B–Seattle Amaral (6,off Hanson); Strange (3,off Risley), Toronto Delgado (16,off Hitchcock). HR–Seattle Rodriguez (15,5th inning off Hanson 2 on, 0 out), Toronto T Perez (1,2nd inning off Hitchcock 2 on, 2 out); Brumfield (7,9th inning off Charlton 1 on, 1 out). SH–R Perez (2,off Hitchcock). HBP–O'Brien (12,by Hitchcock). WP–Hanson 2 (5). HBP–Hitchcock (4,O'Brien). U–Dale Scott, Al Clark, (none), Brian O'Nora. T–2:50. A–31,420.

Email: arod13tb@yahoo.com

3arod13
12-08-2006, 06:41 AM
Actually, he hit career HR #20 with this bat, HR #15 for 1996.

3arod13
12-08-2006, 07:02 AM
I realize being an early HR game used signed bat makes this a rare bat. But being that there were only 12 bats made for Arod of this model, does that contribute to it being even that much more rarer?

3arod13
01-10-2007, 06:45 AM
Forum,

Looking for an estimated value of my Alex Rodriguez 1996 Rawling Game Used #15 Home Run Bat. I was told the estimated value is $1,500. I have to believe that is pretty low for this HR bat.

Document:

SCD LOA (Graded A10)
PSA LOA
AROD Authentic LOA (Stating who he hit the HR off, verified by box score)
Rawlings LOA (Stating Arod ordered only 12 bats of this model in 1996)

Not looking to sell it. Just looking for your thoughts on an estimated value. Yes, I do know that it's also worth whatever someone is willing to pay.

Thanks! Tony

CollectGU
01-10-2007, 08:47 AM
$1,500 - $2,500....

CollectGU
01-10-2007, 08:52 AM
Leland's sold 3 HR bats all LVS of Arod as follows:

1999 Bat- $1,900
2000 Bat - 1,726
1998 Bat- $1,800


Hope this info. helps.

Regards,
Dave

3arod13
01-10-2007, 08:59 AM
Leland's sold 3 HR bats all LVS of Arod as follows:

1999 Bat- $1,900
2000 Bat - 1,726
1998 Bat- $1,800


Hope this info. helps.

Regards,
Dave

Dave, It does, thanks! I would think considering this bat is a Rawlings (more LVS' out there than Rawlings used by Arod), and with a letter from Rawlings stating only 12 bats ordered by arod, would demand a premium price than the above.

ironmanfan
01-10-2007, 09:29 AM
Since it appears as if you purchased this bat within the past couple years, I would think that whatever you paid for it would be a pretty good indication as to the value (I really don't think ARod items have gone up in value that much during that time period...if at all).

3arod13
06-12-2007, 03:43 PM
I searched every photo website I could find, looking for a photo of arod using this Rawlings bat that was used in a game against the New York Yankees at Toronto Blue Jays on 25 June 1996.

Thanks, Tony

3arod13
06-12-2007, 03:50 PM
Tough to find many photo's from 1996. However, there may be some websites I'm not familiar with.

Thanks, Tony

Carlevv
06-12-2007, 04:03 PM
Still looking for a picture of Arod's first HR. Anyone?

3arod13
08-14-2007, 05:22 PM
I will pay $50 to the first person that can find me a photomatch for my arod bat. It must be a 100% photomatch. I have searched and searched, but 1996 pictures are very little.

Good luck!

Regards, Topy

Yankwood
08-14-2007, 06:51 PM
I believe this is a pretty good match. I'll take that in cash.

bscott
08-14-2007, 10:25 PM
This is an intersting post. An offer of money to "photomatch" a game used sports item.

hmm...

The Future is... Photomatching?

I have been thinking about the future of the game used sports authentication business. From information I have gathered reading posts on GUU, it appears that Mears and PSA/DNA do mostly competent work, and, although I've never met the guy, there seems to be abundant evidence that an authenticator named Lou Lampson does questionable work at best. In between the good and bad authenticators, there are many companies that proclaim to authenticate game used sports items. Either way, there seems to be a missing component to all of their authentication services: photomatching.

It seems that a natural progression of the authentication business might result in an authentication service that specializes in "Photomatching." While not foolproof, photomatched game used items offer the collector tangible evidence that their item is actually game used. Further, I believe that photomatched game used items will carry a premium in value if they are photomatched. I know this is only one example, but I noticed that a photomatched Gary Sheffield game used bat that recently sold on ebay for $436.00, when nearly identical game used Sheffield bats have sold for nearly half of that price. (the bat was also photomatched to a day when Sheff hit a home run.. against Boston.. so there are other variables in the high hammer price.)

I am aware that photomatching does have its drawbacks, most notably the lack of photos, films and videos available to match vintage game used items. The science of examining nicks, chips, paint marks, stains, rips, tears, ball/seam marks, pinstripes, seams, stitches and buttons in photographs and comparing them to ones seen on actual items like uniforms/jerseys and baseball bats often ends in inconclusivity. Further, photomatching will undoubtedly have many unforeseen drawbacks, and I'm sure the day will come when a doctored photo is discovered to be an accessory to/culprit of a game used item scam.

I do not have any interest in starting a company that specializes in the photomatching of game used sports items, but if anyone does, the domain name "photomatchsports.com" is available to buy.
Just a thought. Maybe there's a better name.

I would like to add that photomatching seems like a solid way for authenticators (Mears, PSA/DNA) to back up their analyses, especially regarding modern items. The proliferation of digital cameras (cell phones, high-def cameras, etc.) will make the task of photomatching items increasingly easier in the near future. Getty Images is a great starting point, but think of the thousands of other photographs that exist. One case in point: think of the camera flashes that went off when Barry Bonds was swinging for 756.


The capitalist in me knows and accepts the following:
As a collector, I would pay a premium for an item that is photomatched.
As a collector who uses (and pays for) authentication services, I would pay a premium to have a game used piece "photomatched."
If I were a dealer, I would want to obtain photomatches for items I am selling, knowing that photomatched items may sell for more money.

So why is photomatching not more predominant in the Game Used Universe?

Until now, Photomatching is done primarily, if not exclusively, by collectors. And it is time-consuming work. So if anyone out there wants to accept the challenge, photomatching game used sports items could be a lucrative business that helps verify the key component of these sports items we all cherish.

By the way, I couldn't find a photomatch for your A-rod bat.
For $100 bucks, I might look a little harder, though...
For $200 bucks, I'll find a match in 48 hours...

See what I mean?

-bscott.

staindsox
08-14-2007, 11:03 PM
Tony, you should contact the Seattle Times. They very well may have what you are looking for. You could also see if Seattle or Washington has a historical society. I'm sure they too may be able to help you. I am sure finding a photo of that homerun is very do-able...whether or not you can photomatch from it is another question. Good luck.

Chris

aeneas01
08-15-2007, 12:35 AM
This is an intersting post. An offer of money to "photomatch" a game used sports item.

hmm...

The Future is... Photomatching?

I have been thinking about the future of the game used sports authentication business. From information I have gathered reading posts on GUU, it appears that Mears and PSA/DNA do mostly competent work, and, although I've never met the guy, there seems to be abundant evidence that an authenticator named Lou Lampson does questionable work at best. In between the good and bad authenticators, there are many companies that proclaim to authenticate game used sports items. Either way, there seems to be a missing component to all of their authentication services: photomatching.

It seems that a natural progression of the authentication business might result in an authentication service that specializes in "Photomatching." While not foolproof, photomatched game used items offer the collector tangible evidence that their item is actually game used. Further, I believe that photomatched game used items will carry a premium in value if they are photomatched. I know this is only one example, but I noticed that a photomatched Gary Sheffield game used bat that recently sold on ebay for $436.00, when nearly identical game used Sheffield bats have sold for nearly half of that price. (the bat was also photomatched to a day when Sheff hit a home run.. against Boston.. so there are other variables in the high hammer price.)

I am aware that photomatching does have its drawbacks, most notably the lack of photos, films and videos available to match vintage game used items. The science of examining nicks, chips, paint marks, stains, rips, tears, ball/seam marks, pinstripes, seams, stitches and buttons in photographs and comparing them to ones seen on actual items like uniforms/jerseys and baseball bats often ends in inconclusivity. Further, photomatching will undoubtedly have many unforeseen drawbacks, and I'm sure the day will come when a doctored photo is discovered to be an accessory to/culprit of a game used item scam.

I do not have any interest in starting a company that specializes in the photomatching of game used sports items, but if anyone does, the domain name "photomatchsports.com" is available to buy.
Just a thought. Maybe there's a better name.

I would like to add that photomatching seems like a solid way for authenticators (Mears, PSA/DNA) to back up their analyses, especially regarding modern items. The proliferation of digital cameras (cell phones, high-def cameras, etc.) will make the task of photomatching items increasingly easier in the near future. Getty Images is a great starting point, but think of the thousands of other photographs that exist. One case in point: think of the camera flashes that went off when Barry Bonds was swinging for 756.


The capitalist in me knows and accepts the following:
As a collector, I would pay a premium for an item that is photomatched.
As a collector who uses (and pays for) authentication services, I would pay a premium to have a game used piece "photomatched."
If I were a dealer, I would want to obtain photomatches for items I am selling, knowing that photomatched items may sell for more money.

So why is photomatching not more predominant in the Game Used Universe?

Until now, Photomatching is done primarily, if not exclusively, by collectors. And it is time-consuming work. So if anyone out there wants to accept the challenge, photomatching game used sports items could be a lucrative business that helps verify the key component of these sports items we all cherish.

By the way, I couldn't find a photomatch for your A-rod bat.
For $100 bucks, I might look a little harder, though...
For $200 bucks, I'll find a match in 48 hours...

See what I mean?

-bscott.

i very much enjoyed your intelligent and thoughtful post bscott - my concern is that i wonder how long it will be before the unscrupulous use available photos to further their nefarious activities. how long it will be before these types mark up a bat, jersey or helmet so that it matches a given photo....

3arod13
08-15-2007, 03:44 AM
I believe this is a pretty good match. I'll take that in cash.

Wow, arod looks young in that picture (lol)

cjclong
08-15-2007, 08:26 AM
In the past I have wanted to find a specific picture of an at bat by a hitter or a picture of a pitcher in a particular game. I learned about Getty Images in this forum and found a couple of the pictures I was looking for (but they are so expensive they aren't really affordable) and they didn't have some of the pictures I wanted anyway. So I think the question ARod asked about trying to find the home run picture is of interest to a lot of us. If I wanted to find a picture of a particular player's at bat on say Sept 28 of 2002 (just picking a date out of the air) what sources would you look to find it? I've been able to find one or two pictures that were run in a newspaper, but if they didn't appear in a paper then I thought I was out of luck. Any suggestions for the rest of us?

lund6771
08-15-2007, 12:34 PM
Meigray takes the time to photomatch uniforms and do a great job...it really doesn't take that much time to do...

Today there would be pictures of a player from almost every game on Getty or somewhere else so it may take some more time to search through all the games...

But really, how long could it possibly take in football?...that's what makes me angry about Lampson's rubber stamp...including preseason and playoffs there can't be more then 10 games that a player wears of a certain color in a season...it's not just trying to match wear, he's not even close on the styles and customizations!!!...and this search wouldn't even take 10 minutes to try and match!!!!!

staindsox
08-15-2007, 01:00 PM
It looks like he hit is 15th of the year off of Erik Hanson in Toronto on June 25th, 1996. Besides checking the Seattle papers, you could try Toronto as well. Just ask for any A-Rod photos from this specific day. Good luck!

Chris

3arod13
08-15-2007, 01:03 PM
It looks like he hit is 15th of the year off of Erik Hanson in Toronto on June 25th, 1996. Besides checking the Seattle papers, you could try Toronto as well. Just ask for any A-Rod photos from this specific day. Good luck!

Chris

Chris and everyone else...thanks for the comments and help. Will let you know if I get lucky.

Regards, Tony

Canseco44
08-15-2007, 01:05 PM
It is not a photo, but I just had luck getting a game on DVD from the Devil Rays. I contacted them trying to get game footage of Canseco's 400th Homerun on April 14, 1999. Not only did they respond the same day, they are burning me a DVD for free. You might try contacting either one of the teams about a video of that game. You might could get a match from the video. Hope it helps. Just go to their website and there is usually a link to video or archives.

Todd Ricks

3arod13
08-15-2007, 01:16 PM
It is not a photo, but I just had luck getting a game on DVD from the Devil Rays. I contacted them trying to get game footage of Canseco's 400th Homerun on April 14, 1999. Not only did they respond the same day, they are burning me a DVD for free. You might try contacting either one of the teams about a video of that game. You might could get a match from the video. Hope it helps. Just go to their website and there is usually a link to video or archives.

Todd Ricks

Todd, thanks! Hey, did you see the ebay auciton with the Canseco Rookie Game Used Bat, jersey, etc. for only $650? No bids. Any good?

Canseco44
08-15-2007, 01:35 PM
Yes I did and would love to have it. Only problem is NO Dinero. I just spent my money on a game used 2000 World Series Canseco Bat, 2000 World Series Batting Gloves, and his game issued 1999 All Star Jersey. Have you checked out any of the teams websites yet?


Todd Ricks

3arod13
08-15-2007, 01:53 PM
Yes I did and would love to have it. Only problem is NO Dinero. I just spent my money on a game used 2000 World Series Canseco Bat, 2000 World Series Batting Gloves, and his game issued 1999 All Star Jersey. Have you checked out any of the teams websites yet?


Todd Ricks

I just emailed Seattle and Toronto, so I'll wait and see what happens. I'm all for photomatching. Many that I see in this forum, are tough. I think when you have to look so hard to convince yourself it's a match, most likely it's not.

My favorite photomatches in this forum was a Viking Jersey pounded with mud and use and a quarterbacks jersey that had blood on the front. Both photomatched beautifully.

cjw
08-15-2007, 09:00 PM
3arod13...did you contact the Toronto Star, Sun, Globe and Mail etc.? If you have trouble, pls let me know. I grew up in Toronto and just moved West. I have a great group of buddies that collect game used baseball items and live downtown that would reach out to the photo editors of the various papers if you need?

chris

3arod13
08-16-2007, 02:59 AM
3arod13...did you contact the Toronto Star, Sun, Globe and Mail etc.? If you have trouble, pls let me know. I grew up in Toronto and just moved West. I have a great group of buddies that collect game used baseball items and live downtown that would reach out to the photo editors of the various papers if you need?

chris

Chris,

I contacted the Blue Jays and here's the response. I just need to find those links/websites/points of contact and go from there.


Your best bet are the major Toronto dailies and their paid photo archives.

Our team photographer here limits his shotting almost exclusively to our own players.

Start with the Star and / or the Sun...and move on to the Globe & Mail and the Canadian Press if need be

Godd luck!

Will Hill
Director, Guest Services & Fan Experience Toronto Blue Jays & Rogers Centre
Direct: 416 341-1552
Mobile: 416 564-1834
Email: will.hill@bluejays.com

Vintagedeputy
08-16-2007, 07:50 AM
3arod13 - Good luck with north of the border. I tried for 2 weeks to get a video copy of a Yanks/Jays game from this year and got shut out. The Jays told me to call Rogers Sportsnet snice it was their video. Rogers told me that the Jays owned the video and I needed to get it from them.

Who's on first, eh?

3arod13
08-16-2007, 08:03 AM
3arod13 - Good luck with north of the border. I tried for 2 weeks to get a video copy of a Yanks/Jays game from this year and got shut out. The Jays told me to call Rogers Sportsnet snice it was their video. Rogers told me that the Jays owned the video and I needed to get it from them.

Who's on first, eh?

I emailed the Toronato Star, Sun, and Globe & Mail requesting pictures, video, newpaper from that game, etc.

Will keep you posted if I have any luck. I can definately use the $50 finders fee (lol)

zonker
08-16-2007, 08:39 AM
:confused: hey arod the item's are good and it's funny i guess because i'm a new seller old buyer, but new seller. that people are hesitant to buy but there are 26 watcher's. i guess they think if no one bid's the price will go down, but the only place it will go is back down in my collection. i listed it for less than i paid for it. i'm just trying to sell some item's to finish my daughters 65 mustang for her. it's her senior year, so she's getting impatiant. just thought i would mention as i was reading this thread.

3arod13
08-16-2007, 09:14 AM
Just received this email from the Toronto Star:

Anthony:
I can't help you with the video request - maybe some of the Blue Jays forums around the 'net might yield that.
i will dig you out a text copy of the article from that day. There is also Pages of the Past, the Star's digital library - i think it costs $4 or something like that to find a page and order it. i will find the page and edition, and put you on to the right person here.
i'll get back to you.
Regards,
Chris Young, associate sports editor

First positive response. Will keep you posted.

Regards, Tony

clinton2828
08-16-2007, 09:37 AM
this might help or be of help in the future to you

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/2007/07/26/2007-07-26_arod_career_home_runs.html

3arod13
08-16-2007, 09:48 AM
this might help or be of help in the future to you

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/2007/07/26/2007-07-26_arod_career_home_runs.html

Clinton2828, thanks! Pretty cool page. How nice would it have been if I could have clicked on each HR and up comes a picture of video of him hitting that HR.

Regards, Tony

cjw
08-19-2007, 04:59 PM
The Daily News link is interesting, and I guess that I have too much time on my hands today (should go and mow the lawn), but I found it interesting that of 11 "milestone" homers that Arod has hit (1, 50, 100, 150...500) he has hit 8 on the road...including 3 in Toronto compared with only 3 in his then-current home park (2 in Seattle, none at home with the Rangers, and "just" # 500 with the Bombers). Ok, I know, who cares? I'll go and start my yard work.

3arod13
08-20-2007, 10:18 AM
Well, I got somewhat lucky. I have the newspaper from the following day of this game. Toronto Star also sent me the writeup via email:

Toronto looked dead in the water after starter Erik Hanson coughed up
a 6-1 lead, the big blow being a three-run homer off Windows restaurant
by 20- year-old Seattle up-and-comer Alex Rodriguez. Reliever Bill
Risley gave up the go-ahead run and appeared on his way to a 7-6 defeat
with the Jays down to their last two outs.

3arod13
08-21-2007, 03:57 PM
Newspaper from the game is on it's way

3arod13
08-21-2007, 04:04 PM
Newspaper from the game is on it's way

Forgot attachments

3arod13
11-20-2008, 04:14 PM
Scenario: I sent my 1996 Rawlings Alex Rodriguez Game Used HR #15 Bat to MEARS for a detailed authentication letter. I provided MEARS with the following:

AROD Authenticated Letter of Authenticity signed by Alex Rodriguez, which reads: I, Alex Rodriguez, hereby verify that this 460B Black Rawlings was the bat I used on June 25, 1996 when I hit my 15th homerun of the season, which was my 20th career homerun. This homerun was hit against the Toronto Blue Jays off of Erik Hanson.

Letter from Rawlings Bat Company, which reads: Per our records, 12 Rawlings/Adirondack Model 460B bats were made for Mr. Rodriguez during the 1996 season.

The Toronto Star Sports Newspaper dated 26 June 1996, which reads: Toronto looked dead in the water after starter Erik Hanson coughed up a 6-1 lead, the big blow being a three-run homer of windows restaurant by 20-year old Seattle up-and-comer Alex Rodriguez. The box score also reflects he hit HR #15 of the season.

Baseball Almanac, which reflects he hit HR#15 off of Erik Hanson in Toronto on this date.

Signature on the bat was authenticated and consistent with his circa 1996 style signatures (meaning this wasn’t added at a later date)

When I received the MEARS LOO, I was satisfied with the detailed job they did with the write-up, with the following exception (statement in the LOO): MEARS conducted an attempt to photo matching the bat and at the time of the letter printing, (November 11, 2008) no available image of AROD with a black Rawlings bat could be found. Available images from the approximate timeframe, but not the June 25th, 1996 were available for our review. They showed Arod using a Black Louisville Slugger, but we had no success in our attempt to exactly photo match the date of the game with Arod using a Rawlings bat.

With the solid documentation provided with this bat, I don’t see a need to have to mention a photo match was attempted and could not be made.

I asked Troy to remove the statement from the LOO, due to the documentation provided. In this case, I don’t see a photo match being a must to authenticate this bat. If he found a photo match during his authentication process, then add it. However, in this case, all documentation provided, including a detailed letter from Arod himself, which matches the Baseball Almanac and the Toronto Star Newspaper, is a 100% documented and authenticated bat, as MEARS LOO states.

My argument to Troy is:


Not every pitch, at bat, inning, or game is photographed or videotaped.
In 1996, finding pictures are minimal compared to today.
Documentation (specific details) was provided by Arod himself.And again, documentation provided is sufficient to authenticate the bat. Why the need mention you can’t find a photo match? I told Troy, if I submitted the bat for authentication with no documentation, then I can understand.

I told Troy I would take my argument to GUU and he agreed.

I’m not slamming Troy or MEARS. I had two bats authenticated by MEARS and the service has been great! I just disagree having to put a statement in the LOO that a photo match couldn’t be found. Especially with all documentation provided him with the bat.

Look forward to hearing your opinions and comments.

Regards, Tony

trsent
11-20-2008, 04:28 PM
When I received the MEARS LOO, I was satisfied with the detailed job they did with the write-up, with the following exception (statement in the LOO): MEARS conducted an attempt to photo matching the bat and at the time of the letter printing, (November 11, 2008) no available image of AROD with a black Rawlings bat could be found. Available images from the approximate timeframe, but not the June 25th, 1996 were available for our review. They showed Arod using a Black Louisville Slugger, but we had no success in our attempt to exactly photo match the date of the game with Arod using a Rawlings bat.

With the solid documentation provided with this bat, I don’t see a need to have to mention a photo match was attempted and could not be made.

I asked Troy to remove the statement from the LOO, due to the documentation provided. In this case, I don’t see a photo match being a must to authenticate this bat. If he found a photo match during his authentication process, then add it. However, in this case, all documentation provided, including a detailed letter from Arod himself, which matches the Baseball Almanac and the Toronto Star Newspaper, is a 100% documented and authenticated bat, as MEARS LOO states.

My argument to Troy is:


Not every pitch, at bat, inning, or game is photographed or videotaped.
In 1996, finding pictures are minimal compared to today.
Documentation (specific details) was provided by Arod himself.Tony, I am confused, you state that not every pitch, at bat or inning is was photographed or videotaped in 1996?

I am pretty sure every pitch, at bat, inning and game was in some part photographed and for all part videotaped for television broadcast and re-broadcast.

I do not know why Troy decided to mention the lack of a photo-match, but I guess they were just being through.

What final grade did they offer your bat?

b.heagy
11-20-2008, 04:38 PM
with all the supporting documentation that you have with the piece the mention of the lack of photomatch will not hurt the item in my opinion. the LOO can always be updated in the future if I understand their policy correctly. great piece Tony !

karamaxjoe
11-20-2008, 04:47 PM
Why the need for a MEARS letter when you have all the other documentation?

3arod13
11-20-2008, 05:08 PM
Why the need for a MEARS letter when you have all the other documentation?

MEARS puts a very detailed letter together. Puts everything in one documents. Worth the money for me.

3arod13
11-20-2008, 05:21 PM
with all the supporting documentation that you have with the piece the mention of the lack of photomatch will not hurt the item in my opinion. the LOO can always be updated in the future if I understand their policy correctly. great piece Tony !

Agree. Just don't see the need to say a photo match can't be found, in this case, with the documentation provided to MEARS.

3arod13
11-20-2008, 05:24 PM
Tony, I am confused, you state that not every pitch, at bat or inning is was photographed or videotaped in 1996?

I am pretty sure every pitch, at bat, inning and game was in some part photographed and for all part videotaped for television broadcast and re-broadcast.

I do not know why Troy decided to mention the lack of a photo-match, but I guess they were just being through.

What final grade did they offer your bat?

A10

If you go to websites to photo match (gettyimages, corbis, etc.), you will the farther you go back, the less pictures you find. Today, you find much more.

The game was played in Toronto. I contacted their local media and newspapers. Was able to get a copy of the sports page from the next day.

Maybe one day a photo could be found. Again, why mention one can't be found when you even have Arod himself authenticating the bat in detail, which matches the Baseball Almanac and Toronto Star Newspaper?

3arod13
11-20-2008, 05:26 PM
Tony, I am confused, you state that not every pitch, at bat or inning is was photographed or videotaped in 1996?

I am pretty sure every pitch, at bat, inning and game was in some part photographed and for all part videotaped for television broadcast and re-broadcast.

I do not know why Troy decided to mention the lack of a photo-match, but I guess they were just being through.

What final grade did they offer your bat?

I think photo matching is great, if you can find it.

3arod13
11-20-2008, 05:37 PM
I don't see why MEARS would have a problem to remove that statement from the LOO. It doesn't serve a purpose to mention no photo match found.

Arod stated so himself!

trsent
11-20-2008, 05:49 PM
Tony, your LOA and the bat itself are great. I will assume there are no issues with A-Rod's bat. That doesn't mean every item he has autographed as "Game Used" is game used, but there have been speculations about some items he autographed "Game Used" that may not be such. I believe these were all jerseys, but I may be mistaken.

I believe with your A10 grade you should not be concerned, as you know Troy is anal and if he feels he needs to mention after all his work he couldn't find a photo-match, but he still signed off on a perfect grade, that he wants to mention such in the LOA you shouldn't worry. No one will use this fact against you if you ever look to resell the bat.



Why the need for a MEARS letter when you have all the other documentation?

I have a friend who has a similar theory. He always asks me why I would take a jersey with a team letter and have MEARS also authenticate the item. Personally, I often find the extra letter helps the item sell for more money as some team/player letters have been suspect in the past.

Also, MEARS writes great looking, detailed letters.

3arod13
11-20-2008, 05:50 PM
Tony, I am confused, you state that not every pitch, at bat or inning is was photographed or videotaped in 1996?

I am pretty sure every pitch, at bat, inning and game was in some part photographed and for all part videotaped for television broadcast and re-broadcast.

I do not know why Troy decided to mention the lack of a photo-match, but I guess they were just being through.

What final grade did they offer your bat?

They may be photographed and/or videotaped, however, look how difficult they are to find. Many things can't be photo matched.

In my case, I don't see the need. Again, Arod provided details that match the Baseball Almanac and Toronto Sun Newspaper.

I asked Tory to remove the comments, which would not hurt the integrity of his authentication of this bat.

Quote from John Taube: If the bat has shows Arod characteristics it is probable that it was used by him. It's impossible to find photos of every bat he's used.

I agree 100%

kingjammy24
11-20-2008, 05:58 PM
tony

i understand your point. to paraphrase, why did mears even bother including that statement? it's a meaningless statement that only implies an unnecessary negative.

perhaps it's mears policy to try to photomatch every item they get and for those that are unsuccessful, they include that on the LOA?

that said, here's what i wonder: when troy and dave wrote their LOA for their $70k jim brown jersey, did they also add the statement "tried to photomatch this jim brown jersey and couldn't"? or would such a statement, as appears on your LOA, have detracted from their jersey?

why would that statement appear on your LOA and not on the LOA of every item they tried to photomatch but couldn't? i agree that unless it's their corporate policy to include it on every LOA, it's an odd statement to include on yours.

rudy.

3arod13
11-20-2008, 05:59 PM
Tony, your LOA and the bat itself are great. I will assume there are no issues with A-Rod's bat. That doesn't mean every item he has autographed as "Game Used" is game used, but there have been speculations about some items he autographed "Game Used" that may not be such. I believe these were all jerseys, but I may be mistaken.

I believe with your A10 grade you should not be concerned, as you know Troy is anal and if he feels he needs to mention after all his work he couldn't find a photo-match, but he still signed off on a perfect grade, that he wants to mention such in the LOA you shouldn't worry. No one will use this fact against you if you ever look to resell the bat.

I have a friend who has a similar theory. He always asks me why I would take a jersey with a team letter and have MEARS also authenticate the item. Personally, I often find the extra letter helps the item sell for more money as some team/player letters have been suspect in the past.

Also, MEARS writes great looking, detailed letters.

Yes, Troy is anal and so am I. I understand, especially with everything being questioned these days, that photo matching is such a big deal.

If he removes the statement, as the customer requests, it doesn't hurt the integrity of his authentication. It can't come back to hurt him as an authenticator.

Yes, MEARS does an awesome job with writing very detail LOO's. That's why I wanted one. Once document that covers all documentation.

No issues with this bat. Documentation is solid.

3arod13
11-20-2008, 06:06 PM
tony

i understand your point. to paraphrase, why did mears even bother including that statement? it's a meaningless statement that only implies an unnecessary negative.

perhaps it's mears policy to try to photomatch every item they get and for those that are unsuccessful, they include that on the LOA?

that said, here's what i wonder: when troy and dave wrote their LOA for their $70k jim brown jersey, did they also add the statement "tried to photomatch this jim brown jersey and couldn't"? or would such a statement, as appears on your LOA, have detracted from their jersey?

why would that statement appear on your LOA and not on the LOA of every item they tried to photomatch but couldn't? i agree that unless it's their corporate policy to include it on every LOA, it's an odd statement to include on yours.

rudy.

Rudy,

Well said! Thank you!!!!

As the customer and owner of this bat, I do agree 100% that it's a meaningless statement that only implies an unnecessary negative.

That's exactly how I took it and I'm not happy with the statement in the LOO.

Regards, Tony

3arod13
11-20-2008, 06:09 PM
why would that statement appear on your LOA and not on the LOA of every item they tried to photomatch but couldn't? i agree that unless it's their corporate policy to include it on every LOA, it's an odd statement to include on yours.

rudy.

If it is or becomes their corporate policy to do so, I will never use them again.

David
11-20-2008, 06:09 PM
From a practical matter, the MEARS letter supports the general authenticity of the bat and the AROD LOA, if not specifying a specific date. At sale or auction, most buyers or bidders would interpret the MEARS letter as a positive addition to the overall documentation. MEARS is saying its a game used AROD bat, and most bidders and buyers would say that supports the contention of Rodriguez. Obviously, if the letter said it didn't look like a game used Rodriguez bat, then there would be a problem.

In other words, with all the documentation-- including AROD's letter giving specific date and homer run #--, I don't believe most would consider there to be any practical problem in the MEARS letter. In fact, I believe most would consider the MEARS LOO supportive of the AROD LOA.

3arod13
11-20-2008, 06:18 PM
From a practical matter, the MEARS letter supports the general authenticity of the bat and the AROD LOA, if not specifying a specific date. At sale or auction, most buyers or bidders would interpret the MEARS letter as a positive addition to the overall documentation. MEARS is saying its a game used AROD bat, and most bidders and buyers would say that supports the contention of Rodriguez. Obviously, if the letter said it didn't look like a game used Rodriguez bat, then there would be a problem.

In other words, with all the documentation-- including AROD's letter giving specific date and homer run #--, I don't believe most would consider there to be any practical problem in the MEARS letter. In fact, I believe most would consider the MEARS LOO supportive of the AROD LOA.

Understand. As the paying customer and owner of this bat, I would prefer the comment not to be in the LOO.

Just becuause MEARS couldn't find one, doesn't mean there isn't one. They also mention they found photos of Arod using a LVS around that time, which implies he used a LVS and not a Rawlings. To me, that sounds as if Arod was using a LVS around that time and not a Rawlings.

I believe, depending on each individuals interpretation, some may read that as Arod using a LVS bat and not a Rawlings bat during that period.

As Rudy stated, it's an unnecessary negative.

Just to be clear, I have no problems with MEARS or Troy. Nothing but great service. We just have a difference of opinion on this statement. That's why we brought it to GUU.

Let me ask you all this. Do you see a problem and/or a big issue with MEARS removing this statement?

Regards, Tony

Fraudfinder!!
11-20-2008, 06:19 PM
Open discussion regardings 1996 Alex Rodriguez HR bat

November 20 2008 at 2:14 PM Troy R. Kinunen (kinunent@hotmail.com) (Login Troyrkinunen (http://www.network54.com/Profile/Troyrkinunen))Recently we were asked to officially grade a 1996 Alex Rodriguez bat with HR attribution that was first examined by our staff while operating as SCDA. For a very short period during 2004, SCDA worked with the auction houses in a similar manner that the PSA bat division and both JSA and PSA evaluates autographs. That manner was we would offer an auction house letter. These precursory evaluations only guaranteed that bats examined were professional models. A disclaimer was added to the letter stating that SCDA was not responsible for the auction house writeup.



2004 seams like 100 years ago. MEARS has pioneered many advances since, with the one issue relating to this bat. SCDA, now MEARS, soon there after refused to offer precursory evaluations. We mandated to the auction houses that ALL items had to be fully graded or we would not do the work. This had a major impact on items recieving low grades. We would not allow auction houses to pick and chose which items recieved grades. It was our position that there was a potential to confuse collectors what were buying items with MEARS letters, that would actually be very low grade examples. This has never happened due to our policy. I have heard many horror stories of first time buyers buying a game used Mickey Mantle bat with an auction house letter, to later submit the bat to find that it graded very low due to a myriad of undisclosed issues. This led to several houses no longer using our services. Other evaluators still offer the water downed auction house letters.



Now that this bat, first graded by us as SCDA, has re-entered the hobby, we evaluated the bat using all of our modern resources.



For those interested, the letter I provided stated:



Year: 1996. The factory stamp found on the knob denotes this. Rawlings marked the year of production by adding the last two digits of a year, 1996. This appeared as 96 and was the last two numbers on the knob.



Centerbrand: the style of the centerbrand, Rawlings, MADE IN USA, ADIRDONDACK, white ring was consistent with bats issued by Rawlings during 1996 and can be verified via the MEARS centerbrand index.



Model: The knob of the bat has the model number, 460B, batch number, 149, and year code, 96. Rawlings factory records indicate that Rodriguez ordered a total of 12 460B Black Lacquer model bats that are consistent with this bat's specifications.



Length: Although not specifically mentioned in the letter from Rawlings signed by Bill Steele, Professional Bat Operations Supervisor, the model was acknowledged as being used by Rodriguez, which was produced in this length by the factory. Therefore, it is assumed to be the length requested by Rodriguez.



Weight: Although not specifically mentioned in the letter from Rawlings signed by Bill Steele, Professional Bat Operations Supervisor, the model was acknowledged as being used by Rodriguez, which was produced in this weight by the factory. Therefore, it is assumed to be the length requested by Rodriguez.



Use: Bat exhibits heavy use with numerous ball marks present throughout the barrel. There are nine ball marks that display the transfer of ink, five of which have blue ball marks. The ball marks are deep, with have left impressions of the stitch marks, this is consistent with numerous other Alex Rodriquez bats examined by MEARS. A heavy coat of pine tar is present on the Rawlings centerbrand, which extends approximately 9 inches in length, and the handle, which extends 7 inches in length from the knob.



Provenance: The bat's game used and HR notation were provided with provenance directly from Alex Rodriguez. Rodriguez has autographed and inscribed "HR #15, 1996." on this bat in silver marker just to the right of the barrel signature. The signature is very bold and consistent with his circa 1996 style signatures. This bat comes with a LOA from AROD Authenticated signed by Rodriguez, which states the following:



I, Alex Rodriguez, hereby verify that this 460 B Black Rawlings was the bat that I used on June 25, 1996 when I hit my 15th homerun of the season, which was my 20th career homerun. This homerun was hit against the Toronto Blue Jays off of Erik Hanson."



AROD Authentication holograms, #5782, are present on both the end of the barrel and the AROD LOA. Per this LOA and Rodriguez's inscription this bat has been attributed to Rodriguez's 20th career home run.



MEARS conducted an attempt at photo matching the bat and at the time of the letter printing, (November 11, 2008) no available image of AROD with a black Rawlings bat could be found. Available images from the approximate timeframe, but not the June 25th, 1996 were available for our review. They showed Arod using a Black Louisville Slugger, but we had no success in our attempt to exactly photo match the date of the game with Arod using a Rawlings bat.



Date of Home run verification: A copy of the Baseball Almanac Box Score verifies HR #15 being hit by Alex Rodriguez on Tuesday, June 25th, 1996 at the Skydome.





Our reasons for offering the opinion regarding the photomatching was due to the fact that while attempting to photo match this bat, we discovered AROD used black H&B bats during the same relative timespan. We thought that was an important fact that should be included.



Any additional opinions regarding this bat and our evaluation are welcomed to be discussed on our bulletin board.



Regards,





Troy R. Kinunen

MEARS




This message has been edited by bridgettest on Nov 20, 2008 2:21 PM

3arod13
11-20-2008, 06:30 PM
Open discussion regardings 1996 Alex Rodriguez HR bat

November 20 2008 at 2:14 PM Troy R. Kinunen (kinunent@hotmail.com) (Login Troyrkinunen (http://www.network54.com/Profile/Troyrkinunen))Recently we were asked to officially grade a 1996 Alex Rodriguez bat with HR attribution that was first examined by our staff while operating as SCDA. For a very short period during 2004, SCDA worked with the auction houses in a similar manner that the PSA bat division and both JSA and PSA evaluates autographs. That manner was we would offer an auction house letter. These precursory evaluations only guaranteed that bats examined were professional models. A disclaimer was added to the letter stating that SCDA was not responsible for the auction house writeup.

2004 seams like 100 years ago. MEARS has pioneered many advances since, with the one issue relating to this bat. SCDA, now MEARS, soon there after refused to offer precursory evaluations. We mandated to the auction houses that ALL items had to be fully graded or we would not do the work. This had a major impact on items recieving low grades. We would not allow auction houses to pick and chose which items recieved grades. It was our position that there was a potential to confuse collectors what were buying items with MEARS letters, that would actually be very low grade examples. This has never happened due to our policy. I have heard many horror stories of first time buyers buying a game used Mickey Mantle bat with an auction house letter, to later submit the bat to find that it graded very low due to a myriad of undisclosed issues. This led to several houses no longer using our services. Other evaluators still offer the water downed auction house letters.

Now that this bat, first graded by us as SCDA, has re-entered the hobby, we evaluated the bat using all of our modern resources.

For those interested, the letter I provided stated:

Year: 1996. The factory stamp found on the knob denotes this. Rawlings marked the year of production by adding the last two digits of a year, 1996. This appeared as 96 and was the last two numbers on the knob.

Centerbrand: the style of the centerbrand, Rawlings, MADE IN USA, ADIRDONDACK, white ring was consistent with bats issued by Rawlings during 1996 and can be verified via the MEARS centerbrand index.

Model: The knob of the bat has the model number, 460B, batch number, 149, and year code, 96. Rawlings factory records indicate that Rodriguez ordered a total of 12 460B Black Lacquer model bats that are consistent with this bat's specifications.

Length: Although not specifically mentioned in the letter from Rawlings signed by Bill Steele, Professional Bat Operations Supervisor, the model was acknowledged as being used by Rodriguez, which was produced in this length by the factory. Therefore, it is assumed to be the length requested by Rodriguez.

Weight: Although not specifically mentioned in the letter from Rawlings signed by Bill Steele, Professional Bat Operations Supervisor, the model was acknowledged as being used by Rodriguez, which was produced in this weight by the factory. Therefore, it is assumed to be the length requested by Rodriguez.

Use: Bat exhibits heavy use with numerous ball marks present throughout the barrel. There are nine ball marks that display the transfer of ink, five of which have blue ball marks. The ball marks are deep, with have left impressions of the stitch marks, this is consistent with numerous other Alex Rodriquez bats examined by MEARS. A heavy coat of pine tar is present on the Rawlings centerbrand, which extends approximately 9 inches in length, and the handle, which extends 7 inches in length from the knob.

Provenance: The bat's game used and HR notation were provided with provenance directly from Alex Rodriguez. Rodriguez has autographed and inscribed "HR #15, 1996." on this bat in silver marker just to the right of the barrel signature. The signature is very bold and consistent with his circa 1996 style signatures. This bat comes with a LOA from AROD Authenticated signed by Rodriguez, which states the following:

I, Alex Rodriguez, hereby verify that this 460 B Black Rawlings was the bat that I used on June 25, 1996 when I hit my 15th homerun of the season, which was my 20th career homerun. This homerun was hit against the Toronto Blue Jays off of Erik Hanson."

AROD Authentication holograms, #5782, are present on both the end of the barrel and the AROD LOA. Per this LOA and Rodriguez's inscription this bat has been attributed to Rodriguez's 20th career home run.

MEARS conducted an attempt at photo matching the bat and at the time of the letter printing, (November 11, 2008) no available image of AROD with a black Rawlings bat could be found. Available images from the approximate timeframe, but not the June 25th, 1996 were available for our review. They showed Arod using a Black Louisville Slugger, but we had no success in our attempt to exactly photo match the date of the game with Arod using a Rawlings bat.

Date of Home run verification: A copy of the Baseball Almanac Box Score verifies HR #15 being hit by Alex Rodriguez on Tuesday, June 25th, 1996 at the Skydome.

Our reasons for offering the opinion regarding the photomatching was due to the fact that while attempting to photo match this bat, we discovered AROD used black H&B bats during the same relative timespan. We thought that was an important fact that should be included.

Any additional opinions regarding this bat and our evaluation are welcomed to be discussed on our bulletin board.

Regards,

Troy R. Kinunen
MEARS

This message has been edited by bridgettest on Nov 20, 2008 2:21 PM





I just got this email from Troy: The statement about the bat being graded A10 by SCDA was not accurate. That was supplied by the auction house, as an auction house letter with no grade. Thus, we never guaranteed the language, as was printed on the letter.

Here's the SCDA LOA. The letter specifically states "Prior to consignment, this bat was submitted to SCD Authenticated and was given a grade of A10."

Troy signed the SCDA LOA.

Am I missing something?

Regards, Tony

3arod13
11-20-2008, 06:45 PM
Is Troy saying that he signed a blank SCDA LOA and then gave it to the auction house and they added the write up? Is that what he's really saying?

3arod13
11-20-2008, 06:55 PM
Received another email from Troy:

Please read the actual letter, and pay close attention to the box under my signature line, it reads, The item of sports memorabilia has been carefully examined by one or more experts at SCD Authentic . It is our expert opinion this item is authentic and gradable. SCD Authentic is not responsible for the auction house description. SCDA did not assign the A10 grade. I just wanted to clarify that point and it has no bearing on this.

With that said, Troy is stating that he signed a BLANK SCDA LOA, provided it to the auction house, and they then added the write-up.

Again, am I missing something?

David
11-20-2008, 06:58 PM
All I know is on this board some people say MEARS should add facts to letters, while others say facts should be removed. It seems MEARS is between a rock and a hard place if they wish to please this board.

If you want the verbage removed from the letter, it does bug me terribly. However, I can promise you that someone else on this board would castigate from suppressing the quote.

As has already been said, if a pic showing Rodriguez using the color bat, MEARS would probably amend the letter-- and the issue would become moot.

David
11-20-2008, 07:01 PM
correction: removed, it doesn't bug me terribly ...

3arod13
11-20-2008, 07:26 PM
I just got off the phone with Troy. He explained why the statement was put in the LOO.

After dicussing with Troy, I see his point. If a video shows up down the road showing arod using a LVS vice Rawlings throughout the whole game, that wouldn't be good for MEARS.

I will press on and try to find a video from that game. I contacted MLB, but they don't resond.

Someday I may just find that visual proof.

As far as I'm concerned, this post is mute.

Regards, Tony

3arod13
11-20-2008, 08:03 PM
Tony, I am confused, you state that not every pitch, at bat or inning is was photographed or videotaped in 1996?

I am pretty sure every pitch, at bat, inning and game was in some part photographed and for all part videotaped for television broadcast and re-broadcast.

Joel,

I contacted MLB, but no response. I contacted the Toronto Blue Jays to see if they could help, but no response.

I agree. The game had to be covered in Toronto. I just need to find the right place to go and find it.

Regards, Tony

JETEFAN
11-20-2008, 08:04 PM
Tony,

You have a great bat and I wouldn't worry too much about the Mears letter. On the other hand due to A-Rods practices in the past, he has always been nortorius for putting game used on everything he can. I was a huge A-rod collector when he came up, being from Miami he was a hometown hero. It was common place for him to put "game used" on just about anything BP included.. As I was told when I first started to question this long ago, "Alex considers equipment he uses before the game in warm ups and BP, game used." To make a long story short authenticators are very careful about what they call game used as far as Alex goes due to his practices when it comes to game used equipment. 99.9999% of the time it's going to be a black LS during the games. I am not saying your bat is not the real deal, and you do have his letter...

George

3arod13
11-20-2008, 08:10 PM
Tony,

You have a great bat and I wouldn't worry too much about the Mears letter. On the other hand due to A-Rods practices in the past, he has always been nortorius for putting game used on everything he can. I was a huge A-rod collector when he came up, being from Miami he was a hometown hero. It was common place for him to put "game used" on just about anything BP included.. As I was told when I first started to question this long ago, "Alex considers equipment he uses before the game in warm ups and BP, game used." To make a long story short authenticators are very careful about what they call game used as far as Alex goes due to his practices when it comes to game used equipment. 99.9999% of the time it's going to be a black LS during the games. I am not saying your bat is not the real deal, and you do have his letter...

George

George, Arod is know for using Rawlings bats early in his career. When you check Getty Images, very limited numer of photos.

I'm happy with the bat. It would be nice though to have that picture or video showing arod hitting HR #15 with a Rawlings bat.

I realize arod's know for signing anything and everything. But this being an early bat. Knowing he used Rawlings early in his career. Letter from Rawlings stating arod orders 12 bats. I'm confident.

I know collectors want those gamers they know players use majority ofthe time. But arod did use Rawlings early in his career. Bats and Batting Gloves.

Regards, Tony

3arod13
11-20-2008, 08:12 PM
Also, being that he signed the bat HR #15 1996 vice just game used, I'm confident it's authentic.

JETEFAN
11-20-2008, 08:17 PM
Also, being that he signed the bat HR #15 1996 vice just game used, I'm confident it's authentic.

No doubt Tony that yours seems to be the real deal, I was just trying to shed light on why most authenticators freak out when it comes to Alex!! Great bats, congrats!!

George

3arod13
11-20-2008, 08:18 PM
No doubt Tony that yours seems to be the real deal, I was just trying to shed light on why most authenticators freak out when it comes to Alex!! Great bats, congrats!!

George

George, thanks! What do you see for the Yankees next year? Will they be ready to do it next year?

JETEFAN
11-20-2008, 08:22 PM
George, thanks! What do you see for the Yankees next year? Will they be ready to do it next year?

Just a few players away, Babe, Gehrig, Joe D and the Mick thats all....:D I'll take CC, AJ and Texiera and we are home free !!!

George

3arod13
11-20-2008, 08:24 PM
Just a few players away, Babe, Gehrig, Joe D and the Mick thats all....:D I'll take CC, AJ and Texiera and we are home free !!!

George

Agree. I still hate to see Mussina not play one more year. Especially going into the new ball park.

3arod13
11-22-2008, 08:07 AM
Forgot to add a picture

mwbosoxfan
11-22-2008, 08:52 AM
Forgot to add a picture

Why does the Letter of Opinion say attributed to HR #20 and the picture of the bat says HR #15?

3arod13
11-22-2008, 09:26 AM
Why does the Letter of Opinion say attributed to HR #20 and the picture of the bat says HR #15?

Arod hit 5 HR's in 1995. He hit his 15th HR of 1996 with this bat, making it his 20th HR of his career.

3arod13
11-22-2008, 09:27 AM
Why does the Letter of Opinion say attributed to HR #20 and the picture of the bat says HR #15?

Is probably should have read: Attributed to his 20th Career Home Run. Makes more sense that way

mvandor
11-22-2008, 09:53 AM
Received another email from Troy:

Please read the actual letter, and pay close attention to the box under my signature line, it reads, The item of sports memorabilia has been carefully examined by one or more experts at SCD Authentic . It is our expert opinion this item is authentic and gradable. SCD Authentic is not responsible for the auction house description. SCDA did not assign the A10 grade. I just wanted to clarify that point and it has no bearing on this.

With that said, Troy is stating that he signed a BLANK SCDA LOA, provided it to the auction house, and they then added the write-up.

Again, am I missing something?

Was this clarified i your exchanges with Troy? Was a signed blank letter given to an auction house to fill in and grade as they chose? Doesn't sound like MEARS to me, and has me a bit confused...

3arod13
11-22-2008, 10:07 AM
[quote=mvandor;108117]Was this clarified i your exchanges with Troy? Was a signed blank letter given to an auction house to fill in and grade as they chose? Doesn't sound like MEARS to me, and has me a bit confused...[/quote

This is what reads under Troy's signature:

This item of sports memorabilia has been carefully examined by one or more of the experts at SCD Authentic. It is our expert opinion that the item is authenitc and gradeable. SCD Authentic is not liable for the auction house description.

3arod13
11-22-2008, 10:08 AM
Was this clarified i your exchanges with Troy? Was a signed blank letter given to an auction house to fill in and grade as they chose? Doesn't sound like MEARS to me, and has me a bit confused...

I can't speak for Troy. All I can do is provide you with what the SCDA LOA reads.

both-teams-played-hard
11-22-2008, 02:27 PM
that said, here's what i wonder: when troy and dave wrote their LOA for their $70k jim brown jersey, did they also add the statement "tried to photomatch this jim brown jersey and couldn't"? or would such a statement, as appears on your LOA, have detracted from their jersey?


This is the single most important nugget of knowledge in the entirity of "The Conflict of Interest Chronicles".

MEARS deserves praise for their attempts to make the hobby better. They have. MEARS should focus on evaluation and research instead of authenticating.

Again, MEARS deserves a boatload of credit for accepting this huge amount of responsibility in the sports memorabila world. They offer the most comprehensive research and evaluation available. If "photo-match attempts" is a criteria...it should be noted on all research worksheets.

3arod13
11-25-2008, 03:35 PM
Looking for the video or a picture of Alex Rodriguez using a Black Rawlings bat from the game between Seattle Mariners at Toronto Blue Jays on Tuesday, 25 June 1996 - $100 to the person who finds either

I contacted MLB.COM, but no luck

Regards, Tony

Dewey2007
11-25-2008, 04:38 PM
Have you contacted the teams and/or the stations that cover the teams directly? The TV station(s) might have archived video available from that season. Might be worth a shot. Good luck!

indyred
11-25-2008, 05:05 PM
When Bonds broke the home run recods, i'm pretty sure ESPN had video of every home run he hit. So when Arod gets close to some more historic #'s I'm sure they will do the video montage of all his home runs. Not sure on who to contact, but i'd call around at ESPN and see what they may archived for Arod homers, they may have what you need. Also they may even want to interview you and you can show off some of your sweet Arod artifacts. Like that home run bat and signed ticket you have that was in Beckett. Maybe it's next stop will be ESPN baseball tonight.

3arod13
11-27-2008, 08:02 AM
I contacted MLB - no video
I contacted the Toronto Star - no response yet
I contacted ESPN - No response yet

Will continue my search

nomarmauerfan
11-27-2008, 09:45 AM
Have you tried MVP Marketing? With their close contacts to Arod, they may have the ability to get it. Plus, maybe they can ask Arod for you. Arod asking MLB or ESPN is A LOT different than you or I asking them. BTW, I also contacted everyone (including the basbeall HOF - which you may also want to try), asking for the last Yankee game in 1984 when Mattingly beat out Winfield for the batting title. I never heard back from anyone. I truly hope you find the video and it shows you your bat.

Best wishes,
Mike

3arod13
11-27-2008, 01:33 PM
Have you tried MVP Marketing? With their close contacts to Arod, they may have the ability to get it. Plus, maybe they can ask Arod for you. Arod asking MLB or ESPN is A LOT different than you or I asking them. BTW, I also contacted everyone (including the basbeall HOF - which you may also want to try), asking for the last Yankee game in 1984 when Mattingly beat out Winfield for the batting title. I never heard back from anyone. I truly hope you find the video and it shows you your bat.

Best wishes,
Mike

I talked to Mario in the past. He stictly deals with Arod on a professional level. Doesn't get too personal. Understandable.

cjw
11-27-2008, 02:26 PM
I reached out today to the Jay's official photographer. I used to manage the outfield restuant at th SkyDome back in the '90's and he was a friend of mine. I am hoping that he will look through his files to see what he has, if anything from that game.

I will be in touch as soon as I hear back.

chris

3arod13
11-27-2008, 02:57 PM
I reached out today to the Jay's official photographer. I used to manage the outfield restuant at th SkyDome back in the '90's and he was a friend of mine. I am hoping that he will look through his files to see what he has, if anything from that game.

I will be in touch as soon as I hear back.

chris

Chris, thanks! Hope to put $100 in your pocket and a video or photo in my collection.

Happy Thanksgiving,

Regards, Tony

Vintagedeputy
11-27-2008, 06:58 PM
I'm sure that ESPN could pull the tape from Baseball Tonight and show the HR. Keep at them...

3arod13
12-03-2008, 06:17 PM
Don't think I'll ever find a video or photo for this specific game.

Been researching this to death. The Jays photographer said he isn't hopeful that he will find a useful image. He said that he typically shoots the home team (Jays) almost exclusively, and as he used film as opposed to digital in 1996 (and it was an expensive medium) he didn't "waste" many shots.

GoTigers
12-03-2008, 08:34 PM
Long shot, but have you tried this?

http://www.gasolinealleyantiques.com/sports/baseball/images/mariners/vcr-yougottalove.JPG

Highlight video of the 96 Mariners

joelsabi
12-03-2008, 10:06 PM
Long shot, but have you tried this?

http://www.gasolinealleyantiques.com/sports/baseball/images/mariners/vcr-yougottalove.JPG

Highlight video of the 96 Mariners

tony

sorry, i checked the video and i dont see ARod which your bat.

3arod13
12-04-2008, 04:01 PM
Looking for the video or a picture of Alex Rodriguez using a Black Rawlings bat from the game between Seattle Mariners at Toronto Blue Jays on Tuesday, 25 June 1996

$200 to the person who finds it from that specific game
$100 to the person who finds it from any game in 1996

Regards, Tony

costas
12-04-2008, 04:14 PM
there's a couple of photos of him with a black bat on gettyimages, but not sure if that's a rawlings. did you check that already?

costas
12-04-2008, 04:25 PM
again I'm not a bat expert so my apologies if it's not a Rawlings, but here are the photos I was referring to

22 Jun 1996: Alex Rodriguez #3 of the Seattle Mariners in action during a game against the Chicago White Sox. The Mariners defeated the White Sox 4-2

http://cache4.asset-cache.net/xc/324029.jpg?v=1&c=NewsMaker&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF193B3EA2C03450C9486D74E6605887142C6

23 Jun 1996: Infielder Alex Rodriguez of the Seattle Mariners in action during a game against the Chicago White Sox.

http://cache4.asset-cache.net/xc/383832.jpg?v=1&c=NewsMaker&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF193B3EA2C03450C948639E2F3F1193F47EE

16 Jul 1996: Infielder Alex Rodriguez of the Seattle Mariners in action during a game against the Oakland Athletics at Oakland Coliseum in Oakland, California

http://cache2.asset-cache.net/xc/383793.jpg?v=1&c=NewsMaker&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF193B3EA2C03450C94867C3FB1FEC657EB58

3arod13
12-04-2008, 04:25 PM
there's a couple of photos of him with a black bat on gettyimages, but not sure if that's a rawlings. did you check that already?

Yes, but none of them are of him using a Rawlings bat.

costas
12-04-2008, 04:26 PM
Yes, but none of them are of him using a Rawlings bat.

please disregard my previous posts then, I'll keep searching. thanks.

3arod13
12-04-2008, 04:30 PM
I'm determined to find a video or picture. With as many people in this forum, with masterful video and research skills, I'm hoping to get lucky.

Regards, Tony

NegleyPirate
12-04-2008, 05:12 PM
Hi Tony,
I think I found the right pic! (lol) I came across this pic of Arod while searching for the bat one and had to do this. I will keep looking for a real one.

3arod13
12-04-2008, 07:57 PM
Hi Tony,
I think I found the right pic! (lol) I came across this pic of Arod while searching for the bat one and had to do this. I will keep looking for a real one.

I appreciate a good sense of humor. I died laughing!

Tony

Mauer7
12-04-2008, 08:40 PM
Is this the bat for his 15th HR? This list says he hit it against the Red Sox

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/2007/07/26/2007-07-26_arod_career_home_runs.html

yanks12025
12-04-2008, 08:54 PM
I think it is 15th of the season.

yankees24
12-04-2008, 08:56 PM
does anyone have a larger image of this photo? is this a Louisville Slugger bat?

http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/3/8/5/2/5/1/webimg/83719088_o.jpg

3arod13
12-04-2008, 09:17 PM
15th HR of 1996, 20th of his career. Arod hit 5 HR's in 1995.

3arod13
12-05-2008, 04:57 AM
does anyone have a larger image of this photo? is this a Louisville Slugger bat?

http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/3/8/5/2/5/1/webimg/83719088_o.jpg

Pictures too small to tell.

101password
12-05-2008, 10:05 AM
If you can find someone that is selling some of the old Pacific Company negative slides you might get lucky. I got a few of the Pacific negative slides of Shawn Green and they had a date associated with the picture.

Good luck...

GoTigers
12-05-2008, 10:42 AM
Does this help?

bigtruck260
12-05-2008, 10:59 AM
Tony -

Here is a guy that I used to get slides from:

http://stores.ebay.com/eVisions-Sports-Cards-and-More_Baseball-Slides-1-of-a-Kind_W0QQcolZ4QQdirZ1QQfsubZ20692205QQftidZ2QQtZkm

Might we worth a try to contact him....

3arod13
12-05-2008, 09:54 PM
Photomatching is great if you can find it. However, this goes to show that not everything can be photomatched. I've researched myself to death and have been unsuccessful.

Won't stop me from keep trying!

3arod13
12-06-2008, 08:59 AM
Contacted ESPN. This was the response I received:

#yiv66340883 p{margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;}http://na6.salesforce.com/servlet/servlet.ImageServer?oid=00D300000001Uyl&id=0153000000065QTThanks for writing.

ESPN, Inc. does not release or sell copies of its programming or promos. We generally only have telecast rights - not tape-distribution rights to things, which is why you sometimes see those disclaimers about exclusive rights belonging to XYZ league, conference, etc.

You can check out our TV listings at www.espntv.com (http://www.espntv.com/) to see if the program will be replayed.

Sincerely,
ESPN Viewer Response Team

3arod13
12-06-2008, 09:55 AM
As long as I and others have searched, I don't believe I will ever find a picture or video.

withay
12-06-2008, 02:18 PM
I should be able to burn you a DVD of the game on Tuesday.
I'll confirm later tonight.

withay
12-06-2008, 02:41 PM
Looking promising. Will confirm for sure tonight.
Can you send me a personal message with your mailing address and email address?
Thanks

withay
12-06-2008, 02:59 PM
Hey 3arod13,

Like I said in the other conversation, I'm pretty sure I've got a beat on the game. I can burn you off a DVD, no problems. Will let you know tonight.

3arod13
12-06-2008, 06:17 PM
Hey 3arod13,

Like I said in the other conversation, I'm pretty sure I've got a beat on the game. I can burn you off a DVD, no problems. Will let you know tonight.

Are you saying you have a video of the actual game on 25 June 1996 at Toronto?

Can you email me at arod13tb@yahoo?

3arod13
12-06-2008, 06:19 PM
Looking promising. Will confirm for sure tonight.
Can you send me a personal message with your mailing address and email address?
Thanks

email: arod13tb@yahoo.com

Is this the actual game SEATTLE at TORONTO on 25 June 1996?

Tony

AWA85
12-06-2008, 06:21 PM
Oh boy, keep us updated!

withay
12-06-2008, 09:07 PM
Will do!!

camarokids
12-07-2008, 12:06 PM
any updates on the photo match of the year???

3arod13
12-07-2008, 12:37 PM
any updates on the photo match of the year???

I'm keeping my fingers crossed. Someone is trying to help. Here's his last email to me:

Hi there,
I work for a television station in Toronto and we have almost all the Blue Jays games from the last 15 years.
I've checked and that game is missing. We should have a copy of it, but the tape is not there. I have the tape numbers, and have emailed our librarian. I will follow up on Tuesday. Sorry about this. I can't believe it's not there!! What are the odds?
Cheers

metsbats
12-07-2008, 11:12 PM
Tony,

I found a card showing Arod using a Cooper bat.

Hope you can finally get the dvd of the game. Looks promising.

withay
12-08-2008, 04:09 PM
Hey Tony,
Trying a different route. Looks fairly promising. I should know by end of day tomorrow!! My fingers are crossed for you.
Cheers,
WITHAY

withay
12-09-2008, 12:32 PM
Hey,
Got my hands on the 12 minute hilights of the game.
A-Rod's homer was a bomb. Dead centre, off the Windows Restaurant.
There's 3 angles of the homer in the pack, as well as a foul ball A-Rod hit to the first base side (Joe Carter and Tomas Perez get their signals crossed and the ball drops between them).
I'm making the DVD now.
Please email me your mailing address, and I'll drop it in the mail this afternoon.
Cheers,
withay

withay
12-09-2008, 12:33 PM
Hey,
Got my hands on the 12 minute hilights of the game.
A-Rod's homer was a bomb. Dead centre, off the Windows Restaurant.
There's 3 angles of the homer in the pack, as well as a foul ball A-Rod hit to the first base side (Joe Carter and Tomas Perez get their signals crossed and the ball drops between them).
I'm making the DVD now.
Please email me your mailing address, and I'll drop it in the mail this afternoon.
Cheers,
withay

Rob L
12-09-2008, 12:44 PM
Anyway to post some screenshots?

withay
12-09-2008, 12:59 PM
Sorry, I'm not nearly that advanced at the interweb. The DVD will be in Tony's hands by the end of the week, or early next week. Hopefully he can share it with the group.

ironmanfan
12-09-2008, 01:09 PM
That $200 finders fee will come in handy this time of year!

CollectGU
12-09-2008, 01:27 PM
Wow. great job. Can you make out what kind of bat from the video? Thge markings on a rawlings are pretty distinguishable....

Regards,

Dave

allstarsplus
12-09-2008, 01:39 PM
Sorry, I'm not nearly that advanced at the interweb. The DVD will be in Tony's hands by the end of the week, or early next week. Hopefully he can share it with the group.

That is great that you were able to do that for Tony. Were you able to tell the bat brand?

withay
12-09-2008, 01:54 PM
I didn't spend a lot of time with the video, but it's definitely a black bat, with a light coloured barrel, which seems to be consistent with the markings of the bat we've seen pictured.
If I get a chance this afternoon, I'll have a closer look and some of the freeze frames.

withay
12-09-2008, 02:04 PM
Well, I've just shuttled through the tape again, and it's definitely an all black bat (no brown around the handle). There is a large lighter patch in the middle of the bat, and another large lighter section at the end of the bat. It seems to stand up to the one that's autographed in the picture. But I've never photomatched anything before, so I'll leave it in Tony's hands.
Cheers,
withay

3arod13
12-09-2008, 03:19 PM
Hey,
Got my hands on the 12 minute hilights of the game.
A-Rod's homer was a bomb. Dead centre, off the Windows Restaurant.
There's 3 angles of the homer in the pack, as well as a foul ball A-Rod hit to the first base side (Joe Carter and Tomas Perez get their signals crossed and the ball drops between them).
I'm making the DVD now.
Please email me your mailing address, and I'll drop it in the mail this afternoon.
Cheers,
withay

Can you tell if this is the bat?

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=18819&stc=1&d=1228426232

3arod13
12-09-2008, 03:21 PM
Wow. great job. Can you make out what kind of bat from the video? Thge markings on a rawlings are pretty distinguishable....

Regards,

Dave

Are you able to tell if the bat is a Rawlings bat? Also, is there a way to still frame and copy a picture to email?


http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=18819&stc=1&d=1228426232

3arod13
12-09-2008, 03:22 PM
Hey,
Got my hands on the 12 minute hilights of the game.
A-Rod's homer was a bomb. Dead centre, off the Windows Restaurant.
There's 3 angles of the homer in the pack, as well as a foul ball A-Rod hit to the first base side (Joe Carter and Tomas Perez get their signals crossed and the ball drops between them).
I'm making the DVD now.
Please email me your mailing address, and I'll drop it in the mail this afternoon.
Cheers,
withay

withay,

Super job! Is there a way to email the video?

arod13tb@yahoo.com

3arod13
12-09-2008, 03:24 PM
Hey,
Got my hands on the 12 minute hilights of the game.
A-Rod's homer was a bomb. Dead centre, off the Windows Restaurant.
There's 3 angles of the homer in the pack, as well as a foul ball A-Rod hit to the first base side (Joe Carter and Tomas Perez get their signals crossed and the ball drops between them).
I'm making the DVD now.
Please email me your mailing address, and I'll drop it in the mail this afternoon.
Cheers,
withay

TONY BALDWIN
805 POMPANO ARCH
CHESAPEAKE, VA 23322

Can't wait to see the video. Many, many thanks! tony

3arod13
12-09-2008, 03:43 PM
Withay,

If you get an opportunity, call me at 1-757-620-4087. You can call collect.

Tony

withay
12-09-2008, 03:52 PM
It's now in the mail.
Sorry I couldn't post anything to an email. I just don't have those skills!!
Let me know if you get the DVD. I've kept a copy of the master here, in case the envelope gets lost!

camarokids
12-09-2008, 04:48 PM
It's now in the mail.
Sorry I couldn't post anything to an email. I just don't have those skills!!
Let me know if you get the DVD. I've kept a copy of the master here, in case the envelope gets lost!

Looks like you won the $200.00 prize! congrats!

3arod13
12-09-2008, 05:02 PM
Just finished talking to Withay. Great guy! Look forward to seeing the DVD. I will post pics once I get it.

Tony

5kRunner
12-09-2008, 05:18 PM
That's great!

Hope you match it Tony!

dcrules01
12-09-2008, 06:31 PM
That is fantastic I am glad someone was able to help you Tony.This board is fantastic I have met a lot of good people that have helped me in the past.Great job hopefully its all a match now..

Scott

3arod13
12-09-2008, 06:42 PM
That is fantastic I am glad someone was able to help you Tony.This board is fantastic I have met a lot of good people that have helped me in the past.Great job hopefully its all a match now..

Scott

I agree. I truly enjoy this forum and everyone in it. Everyone goes out of their way to help each other.

From talking with Withay, I believe it will be easy to see Arod's using a Rawlings bat. If so, wow! I will post pics once I get the DVD.

Now my question to you bat experts. Although many collectors prefer Arod's LVS, since it's what he is known for mainly using. Wouldn't you say this bat would be pretty rare? Being a HR bat, solid documentation, and it's the only known Rawlings gamer I know of.

Your thoughts. Tony

Dewey2007
12-09-2008, 06:50 PM
If it's all good are you going to send the DVD to Mears to have them amend the LOO they did for you recently or has that all been cleared up? I remember a recent thread in which they mentioned there was no photomatch available for the bat on the LOO you received from them.

TFig27
12-09-2008, 07:01 PM
Tony,

Did you ever think you'd find a photomatch? Or how long did you expect it to take?

Tom

3arod13
12-09-2008, 07:02 PM
If it's all good are you going to send the DVD to Mears to have them amend the LOO they did for you recently or has that all been cleared up? I remember a recent thread in which they mentioned there was no photomatch available for the bat on the LOO you received from them.

Yes, I'll send the DVD to MEARS and have the LOO upgraded to a "without a question...no doubt...100% Game Used Bat."

3arod13
12-09-2008, 07:06 PM
Tony,

Did you ever think you'd find a photomatch? Or how long did you expect it to take?

Tom

To be honest, never. I searched for some time, with negative results. I couldn't even find one picture of Arod ever using a Rawlings bat.

With all the talk about Arod signing anything and everything game used, I was actually worried if I was ever to find a video of the game, he wouldn't be using a Rawlings in that game.

I did feel more confident though that the chances were good, considering the bat is from 1996 and his first full season. I thought less of a chance of him doing that back then.

I'm excited and can't wait for the DVD. I will post pictures and the video, if possible.

Regards, Tony

metsbats
12-09-2008, 10:49 PM
I agree. I truly enjoy this forum and everyone in it. Everyone goes out of their way to help each other.

From talking with Withay, I believe it will be easy to see Arod's using a Rawlings bat. If so, wow! I will post pics once I get the DVD.

Now my question to you bat experts. Although many collectors prefer Arod's LVS, since it's what he is known for mainly using. Wouldn't you say this bat would be pretty rare? Being a HR bat, solid documentation, and it's the only known Rawlings gamer I know of.

Your thoughts. Tony

I would go even farther and say the bat you own is one of a kind.

Rarer than rare.

Can't wait to see the photos!

David

3arod13
12-10-2008, 05:20 PM
Any recommendations on what programs or services I could use to get good quality still photos from the DVD?

Thanks, Tony

GoTigers
12-10-2008, 05:25 PM
I have not tried this... but I believe that if your computer plays dvds you could pause the screen on the shot you want. Then press the "print screen" key on your keyboard- should be to the right of your backspace key. Then go to your image software (photoshop, etc) and the "control" and "V" key at the same time, that is the command for paste.

kingjammy24
12-10-2008, 05:59 PM
I have not tried this... but I believe that if your computer plays dvds you could pause the screen on the shot you want. Then press the "print screen" key on your keyboard- should be to the right of your backspace key. Then go to your image software (photoshop, etc) and the "control" and "V" key at the same time, that is the command for paste.

not that simple. in windows, video displays on a different "layer". hence if you do what you suggested, you'll get the all-too-common empty or black paste because what was copied was the wrong layer. most programs, incl. windows, don't know which layer you're trying to copy. the default layer is not the layer that the video is playing on. i've been punching myself in the face trying to get screenshots from dvds on my computer to no avail. i've done all the usual tricks, such as turning off overlays, etc and still nothing. i think what you need is dvd software that specifically has screen capturing functionality built into it, like cyberlink's powerdvd. microsoft's windows media player doesn't have screen capture functionality so most folks try to use alt-printscreen which often doesn't work.

tony:

if you want the best shot at this, i'd get cyberlink's powerdvd. here is their website: http://www.cyberlink.com/multi/products/main_1_en_US.html

cyberlink makes a variety of different software so make sure you get "powerdvd" specifically. the current version is 8 but i think they also sell 7 at half price and ver.7 should be able to take screenshots. i believe it saves them in .bmp format which is ideal. better than .jpg.

rudy.

kingjammy24
12-10-2008, 06:03 PM
there's also techsmith's highly regarded snagit:

http://www.techsmith.com/screen-capture.asp

rudy.

3arod13
12-15-2008, 03:28 PM
Video hasn't arrived yet. Not sure how long mail (delays) takes from Canada. Will post as soon as I get it.

Jags Fan Dan
12-15-2008, 03:40 PM
Video hasn't arrived yet. Not sure how long mail (delays) takes from Canada. Will post as soon as I get it.Customs will hold it up longer than you would expect.

camarokids
12-15-2008, 03:44 PM
Customs will hold it up longer than you would expect.

It took me over 20 days to get a Delmon Young bat from a seller in Canada...

3arod13
12-15-2008, 03:45 PM
Thanks for the info. I figured it would probably longer. Guess I'll just be patient and wait until it gets here.

3arod13
12-15-2008, 03:46 PM
Hopefully he can figure out how to email the video or upload on a website to view.

zookerman182
12-15-2008, 05:10 PM
I had to wait 60 days for a Hanley game used bat sent from canada. I dont buy from there anymore. Its awful.

withay
12-16-2008, 11:39 AM
Usually when I buy things off ebay of small value, the end up at my place between 5-10 business days.
Of course, it is Christmas season!!

lund6771
12-16-2008, 11:41 AM
Withay...

I've been looking for a hockey video when the LA Kings came to Toronto in the early 90's....I'll give ya $300 if you can get the full video from that game...

LMK

Thanks Pete

withay
12-17-2008, 10:43 AM
Hey Pete,

I doubt I can help, but I'd like to.
Tell me about the game.
What's your email?

Cheers,
withay

lund6771
12-17-2008, 03:15 PM
Pete@axelohman.com


The game is from November 2, 1991...

LA Kings at Toronto Maple Leafs

Thanks

(Not trying to hijack your thread Tony)

withay
12-18-2008, 10:19 AM
16739

16740

16741

Here's some of the pictures from the HR

withay
12-18-2008, 10:20 AM
16742

16743

16744

3 more.

withay
12-18-2008, 10:21 AM
16745

16746

16747

Here's the last 3.

Cheers,
withay

3arod13
12-18-2008, 11:15 AM
withay,

Can you email me the pictures at:

arod13tb@yahoo.com

and

anthony.baldwin@navy.mil

I want to see if I can enlarge them. Difficult to tell if it's a Rawlings bat.

Thanks, Tony

Vintagedeputy
12-18-2008, 11:29 AM
oh yah, thats the bat for sure.

Check the 2 white sploches on the bat, just to the right of the kid in the red shirt.
http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=19256&d=1229613590http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=18819&stc=1&d=1228426232

Rboitano
12-18-2008, 11:48 AM
It looks like a Louisville to me, look at the very first photo.

kylehess10
12-18-2008, 11:48 AM
A closer look.......




http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh133/kylehess1025/ARod2.jpg

Rboitano
12-18-2008, 11:51 AM
In that enlarged photo their is no doubt that it is a Louisville.

kylehess10
12-18-2008, 11:52 AM
In that enlarged photo their is no doubt that it is a Louisville.


That's what I'm thinking. To me it looks like the Louisville Slugger logo and "POWERIZED" next to it

dodgersfan
12-18-2008, 11:53 AM
I agree,It looks like a Louisville Slugger to me.
(I did not mean to rhyme)



Rudy







It looks like a Louisville to me, look at the very first photo.

Rboitano
12-18-2008, 11:55 AM
You can tell that the coloring on the branding of the bat is silver in the photos, not the bright white coloring of the Rawlings labeling.

ironmanfan
12-18-2008, 11:55 AM
Louisville all the way; damn that sucks

CollectGU
12-18-2008, 12:03 PM
I'm also going with LVS....wow...unbelieveable

Rboitano
12-18-2008, 12:03 PM
This is exactly why I dont buy bats that come with Arod COA's, the guy will sign and sell anything! Look at all the blonde LVS he has signed over the years as "game used"

3arod13
12-18-2008, 12:21 PM
I hope the video arrives today. Maybe I can see the bat more clearly in the video. These pics aren't as clear to be able to see definate detail.

I will say that if this isn't a Rawlings bat, it will become a big media story.

Enough is enough!

Regards, Tony

yankees24
12-18-2008, 12:30 PM
hopefully it is but what are you going to do with the bat if it isn't? will you keep it or consider selling it? good luck!

ndevlin
12-18-2008, 12:32 PM
oh yah, thats the bat for sure.

Check the 2 white sploches on the bat, just to the right of the kid in the red shirt.
http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=19256&d=1229613590http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=18819&stc=1&d=1228426232

VD are you kidding around? I would be pissed if this was my bat, as would you!

yankees24
12-18-2008, 12:40 PM
definitely, the time, effort and resources Anthony put into this and to find out it's not the case is quite deflating. heck even I'm disappointed as well.

Vintagedeputy
12-18-2008, 12:42 PM
VD are you kidding around? I would be pissed if this was my bat, as would you!

Actually, I'm not kidding.

I'm using a very good monitor and I can shoot aspirins at 15 yards. My eyes tell me that its a Rawlings. I dont see any LS markings at all. Please tell me what I'm missing. If there's something that you guys see that I dont, I'm all ears.

allstarsplus
12-18-2008, 12:59 PM
Actually, I'm not kidding.

I'm using a very good monitor and I can shoot aspirins at 15 yards. My eyes tell me that its a Rawlings. I dont see any LS markings at all. Please tell me what I'm missing. If there's something that you guys see that I dont, I'm all ears.

I am not convinced either way because you have some light glare possibly on the bat.

I initially thought in the picture below NDEVLIN was showing was the bottom of the R in Rawlings.

Rboitano
12-18-2008, 01:05 PM
Look at the other photos, the first shots dont appear to be a Rawlings at all.

kingjammy24
12-18-2008, 01:25 PM
1) i don't think the pics of arod in mid-swing are of much use. it's clear that the roof is closed during that game. when the roof is closed, they turn the stadium lights on and those things are pretty massive. i think, as andrew lang stated, there's definitely light being reflected off the bat. you can see light being reflected all over the place in those photos from the arod's helmet to some bald guys in the crowd.

2) what should be looked for is the white rawlings ring. i've posted some pics. in the third pic, you can see a part of the label yet you can also see there's no white ring around it.

my personal opinion, from the pics presented here, is that it's a LVS. if that's really the case, then that really, really sucks. ultimately though, i guess i'd rather know the truth even if it's bad. maybe arod just got the HR number mixed up? personally, i'd look for pics of HRs #14, 15, and 17. maybe he just got the bats mixed up.

http://img352.imageshack.us/img352/1216/sillyjv9.jpg

http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/551/silly2zw2.jpg

http://img352.imageshack.us/img352/6797/silly3mm9.jpg

rudy.

yankees24
12-18-2008, 01:28 PM
what about his other at-bats during that game, does anyone know if he used the same bat?

Rboitano
12-18-2008, 01:30 PM
Vintage Dep.
You really dont see any LS markings? Not the silver labeling? Where is the white ring on the bat?

kingjammy24
12-18-2008, 01:31 PM
re: the photos

rather than looking at the label, forget the label for a minute and try to locate the white rawlings ring on any of the game photos. i can't find it.

rudy.

kingjammy24
12-18-2008, 01:37 PM
http://img352.imageshack.us/img352/2984/silly4xq5.jpg

the game photos show 2 distinct areas on the label area. (LVS and "powerized"?). where are the 2 distinct areas on tony's bat?

http://img360.imageshack.us/img360/3675/silly5yh1.jpg

rudy.

allstarsplus
12-18-2008, 01:38 PM
1) my personal opinion, from the pics presented here, is that it's a LVS. if that's really the case, then that really, really sucks. ultimately though, i guess i'd rather know the truth even if it's bad. maybe arod just got the HR number mixed up? personally, i'd look for pics of HRs #14, 15, and 17. maybe he just got the bats mixed up.rudy.

That sums it up well. A real shame as we were all pulling for Tony.

dodgersfan
12-18-2008, 01:39 PM
Tony,Will Withay still get the $200 ?


Rudy







Looking for the video or a picture of Alex Rodriguez using a Black Rawlings bat from the game between Seattle Mariners at Toronto Blue Jays on Tuesday, 25 June 1996

$200 to the person who finds it from that specific game
$100 to the person who finds it from any game in 1996

Regards, Tony

Rboitano
12-18-2008, 01:46 PM
I think it is somewhat conclusive that the bat in the photos pictured is not a Rawlings. Maybe their is more game footage that could give more information.

3arod13
12-18-2008, 01:46 PM
Tony,Will Withay still get the $200 ?


Rudy

Of course! He delivered!

Tony

Vintagedeputy
12-18-2008, 01:48 PM
I think the next question is...

did Arod have any orders for Black LS bats during this time?

ironmanfan
12-18-2008, 01:52 PM
Whew, I thought for a moment that I had to change my impression of Arod not being a guy of character...

yankees24
12-18-2008, 01:53 PM
are there more bats out there where he wrote the number HR he hit on the bat, if this one is questionable then what about the others?

Rboitano
12-18-2008, 01:56 PM
I was thinking the same thing, I have always wondered the accuracy of the claims on modern players home run bats. I personally would not pay the premium for a home run bat, I would rather have a regular signed bat for a lot less money.

kingjammy24
12-18-2008, 01:57 PM
are there more bats out there where he wrote the number HR he hit on the bat, if this one is questionable then what about the others?

http://www.network54.com/Forum/379976/thread/1107935248/ASI-Alex+Rodriguez+2002+HR+%2316+bat+a+fake-

rudy.

Rboitano
12-18-2008, 02:01 PM
The infamous HR 16 2002 bat surfaces again!

http://cgi.ebay.com/Alex-Rodriguez-Autographed-Home-Run-Game-Used-Bat_W0QQitemZ250344636525QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_Def aultDomain_0?hash=item250344636525&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A3%7C65%3A3%7C39%3A2%7C240%3A1318

3arod13
12-18-2008, 02:12 PM
First, thanks for your comments.

Yes, this sucks! Hopefully the video will come today and I can see it more clearly.

I paid heavily for this bat for one reason...Rawlings bat used by Arod was rare.

I did email Scott from Millcreek Sports and this was his response: "Hi Tony, Yes, Alex Rodriguez did use Rawlings bats in 1994-1996 before switching almost exclusively to Louisville Slugger. Hope this helps. Scott"

Many thoughts going through my head right now:

- Arod signed in HR#15 1996. Could that mean career HR #15, which he hit in 1996? That would be the game Boston Red Sox at Seattle, 31 May 1996, off of Rich Garces?

With that said, the bat was authenticated by Arod when he was with Texas. That tells me that someone put the bat in front of him then. They probably at that time just looked up who he hit HR#15 off and then prepared the letter for him to sign. Possibility?

Yes, I'm not in a good place right now. But until I'm 100% sure, I'm keeping an open mind.

If it's proven for sure if it wasn't a Rawlings he hit HR#15 in that game, I will give Arod every opportunity to address this matter before it blows up to become a big media story.

Sad part is, I'm probably the biggest Arod fan out there. Yes, I'm not in a good place right now.

Regards, Tony

allstarsplus
12-18-2008, 02:12 PM
I was thinking the same thing, I have always wondered the accuracy of the claims on modern players home run bats. I personally would not pay the premium for a home run bat, I would rather have a regular signed bat for a lot less money.

Players make honest mistakes. Collectors make honest mistakes. There is no substitute for doing homework to confirm.

I have owned many Sosa, Bonds and ARod game used bats and never wanted to purchase any with HR inscriptions on them because I found too many discrepencies. I think it greatly devalues a bat (like Tony's) when you have a HR inscription to find later that it is NOT the HR bat. With that said, I favor "no inscription" until I have proven myself that it is a HR bat.

MLB holograms I think provide a great tool for dating bats and seems to be one of the best tools on modern bats along with video and pictures to photomatch.

kingjammy24
12-18-2008, 02:19 PM
I think the next question is...

did Arod have any orders for Black LS bats during this time?

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/711/silly2nr4.jpg

interesting pic of arod using a paul sorrento bat:
http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/2810/sillyst1.jpg

i also found a pic of arod using a blonde LVS in a game (not BP) in 1996.

anyway, i think it's important to put all of this in perspective. it's not like tony's bat is fake. tony confirmed that rawlings shipped the bat to arod during 1996 and i think that it's overwhelmingly likely that arod used the bat in 1996. it's still a legit arod gamer. i just don't think the inscription is accurate and i don't think it was used to hit that specific home run. not a terrible outcome, relatively speaking.

this isn't like it's the first time arod's word has been found to be garbage.

rudy.

Rboitano
12-18-2008, 02:31 PM
It is still a nice bat, still the only Rawlings from that era that I have ever seen. Good luck Tony, I hope the video will give you more information.

dodgersfan
12-18-2008, 02:31 PM
The Blonde bat looks like a Mizuno.
I might be wrong?
What do you guys think?


Rudy





http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/711/silly2nr4.jpg

interesting pic of arod using a paul sorrento bat:
http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/2810/sillyst1.jpg

i also found a pic of arod using a blonde LVS in a game (not BP) in 1996.

anyway, i think it's important to put all of this in perspective. it's not like tony's bat is fake. tony confirmed that rawlings shipped the bat to arod during 1996 and i think that it's overwhelmingly likely that arod used the bat in 1996. it's still a legit arod gamer. i just don't think the inscription is accurate and i don't think it was used to hit that specific home run. not a terrible outcome, relatively speaking.

this isn't like it's the first time arod's word has been found to be garbage.

rudy.

yanks12025
12-18-2008, 02:33 PM
Who wore number 44 in that bottom photo.

Where did you get the letter and bat from. Because you never know someone could have wrote homerun and 15?

kingjammy24
12-18-2008, 02:41 PM
perhaps a part of the problem may lie with "arod authenticated". "arod authenticated" was a venture set up by former ASI co-owner and current ESM pres. scot monette.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Rodriguez, the Yankees' third baseman, became the first player ever to drive in 10 runs in a game at Yankee Stadium in a 12-4 victory over the Angels on Tuesday.
By Thursday, the company, A-Rod Authenticated, was running radio advertisements for signed baseballs commemorating that performance, with a price of $399.
Rodriguez said yesterday that he never signed any baseballs, and that he was never approached about marketing his performance.
He said that his feelings about Tuesday's game are "very special and very sincere" and that he would not try to cash in on it.
"It's just not part of what I'm doing," Rodriguez said, "and it's upsetting to me that someone would take action before even coming to me, or promote something I had nothing to do with."
Rodriguez's agent, Scott Boras, said Rodriguez had terminated his relationship with A-Rod Authenticated and its president, Scot Monette. Boras said that his company, Impact Sports, would handle Rodriguez's memorabilia business.
"This is something that was just unconscionable, in regard to a player that committed to what he does" Boras said. "
There were advertisements out there that he did not know about. He was approached on Tuesday and asked if he wanted to do anything in regard to this, and he said "no".
Monette did not return calls seeking comment. The Web site for the company, based in Clearwater, Fla., features little more than an advertisement for Rodriguez's "V.I.P. Meet and Greet" event with Barry Bonds in December. Fans paid $7,500 then to spend time with the players, and Rodriguez donated his money to charity.
Rodriguez said he did most of his organized autograph signings in the off-season or during spring training. He said that although A-Rod Authenticated had "generic signed baseballs" of his, he questioned the legality of the company linking those balls to his three-homer game.
"They can't do that" Rodriguez said. "That wouldn't even be legal. That's impossible."
Before this season, the Yankees formed a partnership with Steiner Sports, a memorabilia company that has two billboards at Yankee Stadium. Under the agreement, Steiner Sports sells bats used in games, jerseys and uniform pants of Yankee players.
There were no Rodriguez items that were used in games available on the company's Web site yesterday, and Rodriguez said he declined the company's request for his bat and jersey from Tuesday's game.
"I'm keeping everything, are you kidding me?" said Rodriguez, who then showed reporters the bat he used and the jersey he wore on Tuesday.
"This is my daughter's jersey at some point, you know?"
Rodriguez said he was still using the bat from Tuesday, and was not even sure he would give it up if the Hall of Fame
were to ask.
"I don't mess with my equipment, especially if I'm playing with it" he said.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
AROD Authenticated is the brand name for the service, which is managed by Authentic Sports Investments, the Florida-based company that has been working with Rodriguez for memorabilia deals for the past four years.
"This is a separate company, operating under our corporate umbrella, to handle Alex’s memorabilia needs” said Scot Monette, president of ASI.
Monette founded ASI with Brad Wells in 1999.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
NYDAILYNEWS:
Alex Rodriguez yesterday abruptly cut ties with a memorabilia company attempting to sell autographed baseballs commemorating his three-homer, 10-RBI game against the Angels on Tuesday, claiming he never had given permission for such a venture.
The company, known as "A-Rod Authenticated," is a division of Elite Sports Marketing and advertised the "once in a lifetime" opportunity on the radio in New York. The asking price was $399 for the balls, which had A-Rod's signature and his stat line from the game. They were not actually used in the game.
"I reached the people and I said, 'If you're trying to do things without me, that's not right" A-Rod said. "I'm very upset about it. ... To go out and sell this crap - that's BS."
Scott Monette, president of Elite, declined comment yesterday. But when a caller posing as a potential customer inquired about the balls, she was told that a "presale" was currently being conducted; A-Rod, according to the sales representative, would sign the balls on Tuesday or Wednesday of next week.
"Obviously that isn't going to happen" Rodriguez said when told of the claims.
Rodriguez has worked with the company in the past, most notably on "The Ultimate Event," which was a $7,500-per-ticket private function held over the winter at which he appeared with Barry Bonds. Elite has had issues with authenticity (it was formerly known as Authentic Sports Investments), but A-Rod did not comment on any previous problems he may have had with the company, saying only that he was pleased to be free of it and was not pursuing a new memorabilia partner.
"I think there's a lesson to be learned and I've learned it," he said. "There's no relationship with anyone right now, and I'll probably stay idle for a while."
He added that he currently isn't planning to pursue any legal action against Elite because "this should be enough of a sting."
Rodriguez was skewered by fans and talk-show hosts yesterday after a mention of the advertisement appeared in the Daily News, and Gary Sheffield alerted him to the criticism early in the afternoon. A-Rod said he discussed the situation with his representatives and that his agent, Scott Boras, dealt with Elite.
"Once we had knowledge of the situation, we took action" Boras said. "There is a time and place for this sort of thing, and it's not during the season."
A-Rod added that he "doesn't enjoy" signing and donates much of the money made from memorabilia sales to charity. He said he didn't know how much money he stood to lose by ending his relationship with Elite.
Rodriguez said he does most of his memorabilia signing during spring training or after the season. In a request unrelated to Elite, Steiner Sports Marketing & Memorabilia - which has a partnership with the Yankees - inquired about authenticating A-Rod's jersey and bat from the game. Rodriguez declined, saying he is still using the bat ("I'm not that superstitious, but come on!" he said) and wasn't interested in parting with his pinstripes. "That night I want to remember forever as a very special night" he said. "It's certainly not something I want to capitalize on. ... It's not who I am."
------------------------------------------------------------------

i love that last line about arod not wanting to capitalize on things because it's "not who he is".

rudy.

kingjammy24
12-18-2008, 02:44 PM
The Blonde bat looks like a Mizuno.
I might be wrong?
What do you guys think?

Rudy

yes.

http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/8440/sillybr8.jpg

rudy.

CollectGU
12-18-2008, 03:37 PM
Tony,

Will you attempt to get a refund for the bat?

Regards,
Dave

3arod13
12-18-2008, 03:49 PM
Tony,

Will you attempt to get a refund for the bat?

Regards,
Dave

Dave,

Unfortunately, I bought the bat a long time ago, so that's not an option today. Documentation was solid then, including signed by ARod. I even researched and obtained more documentation to back up even what I had when I bought the bat.

Whether companies are doing wrong or not, it's the individuals (players) responsibility to know what they are signing, and to ensure the authenticity of that item.

I emailed two people who are close to Arod. I'm hoping that Arod will have the opportunity to hear about this situation and somehow make it right.

Not sure how this happened, but I'm hoping Arod will do what he can to make this right.

Tony

3arod13
12-18-2008, 04:08 PM
My next plan of action is to find the video from the game Boston Red Sox at Seattle Mariners on 31 May 1996.

Arod hit Career HR #15 in on this day. Arod could have signed the bat meaning it was his 15 HR of his career, which he hit in 1996.

Now, if it's proven that he didn't hit career HR #15 on this day with a Rawlings, then we definately have a serious problem.

On to my research.

Regards, Tony

3arod13
12-18-2008, 04:09 PM
If anyone is from Boston, and can give me some media sources to contact, it would be a great help.

Thanks, Tony

3arod13
12-18-2008, 04:12 PM
If anyone is from Boston, and can give me some media sources to contact, it would be a great help.

Thanks, Tony

Sorry, meant Seattle. I guess Boston could have covered the game also.

3arod13
12-19-2008, 03:04 PM
I still haven't received the video from Canada (man, it takes forever).

However, I emailed a few TV stations in Seattle last night looking for a video of the game Boston Red Sox at Seattle Mariners on 31 May 1996, where Arod hit career HR #15.

I just got a call from one of those TV stations. They are Fedexing me A DVD of that game, and it will be here Monday. WOW! I can't believe it.

With that said, if this game also doesn't show him using a Rawlings, then Arod has a lot of explaining to do.

Will keep you all posted.

Regards, Tony

yanks12025
12-19-2008, 03:14 PM
Tony,
It took you forever to find video of arods 20th and then you found video of arods 15th home run game in less than 3 days. Hope it turns out to be the bat.

harpt
12-19-2008, 03:19 PM
Definately rooting for you Tony!!

A good point made earlier: No matter what happens (whether it is from a specific homerun or not), the worst case scenario is that you have a very rare A-Rod gamer.

Thanks for keeping us all up to date.

3arod13
12-19-2008, 03:20 PM
Tony,
It took you forever to find video of arods 20th and then you found video of arods 15th home run game in less than 3 days. Hope it turns out to be the bat.

I think because that game was in Toronto, Canada. Was difficult to find help. Only reason I got help, was because he was part of this forum.

I'm excited, yet nervous. If both games don't show Arod hitting #15 (career #15 or #15 of 1996), I won't be a happy camper.

Tony

withay
12-19-2008, 03:26 PM
I hope you have better luck with the game from Seattle.
My fingers are crossed for you!

3arod13
12-19-2008, 03:32 PM
Definately rooting for you Tony!!

A good point made earlier: No matter what happens (whether it is from a specific homerun or not), the worst case scenario is that you have a very rare A-Rod gamer.

Thanks for keeping us all up to date.

Understand, but don't you think him adding that, and it being proven he didn't, hurts the bat?

But it is the only Rawlings known gamer I know of.

Regard, Tony

kingjammy24
12-19-2008, 03:41 PM
maybe the bats got mixed up. how long after arod hit the HR did he sign the bat? days? weeks? maybe months? who was supposed to keep track of the bats and records? in a way, it reminds me a little of the brett favre debacle where the athlete is just signing whatever is placed in front of them. makes you wonder about all of the other "arod authenticated"/ESM pieces that were sold and attributed to specific dates.

if it turns out not to be the bat used in seattle, then maybe you can just remove the inscription and you're left with a '96 arod gamer.

anyway, tony i think one of the more interesting things that's struck me about all of this is what you've done to get this bat "authenticated". here you've got a somewhat atypical arod rawlings bat and you managed to get a letter from rawlings confirming shipments and dates and have seemingly gone to the ends of the earth to verify that that this particular bat was actually used for the HR noted in the inscription, even managing to get a 12 yr old game on dvd. if this bat had been consigned to any of the major auction houses, i guarantee that none of the "professionals" would've put forth even 1/3 the effort. they would've seen the "arod authenticated" letter and the inscription and plopped that thing into the auction with a big, bombastic description that would've taken arod's inscription as gospel. after all, check out how many arod HR bats AMI has sold over the past few years. do you think they or taube tracked down all of the games to make sure the bat matched the inscription? when mastro recently sold the aaron HR bat, taube said he didn't authenticate the bat as a HR bat, but merely as an aaron gamer. of course, the bat wasn't merely an aaron gamer and had a premium affixed to it because it was a HR bat.

it's a sad thing when the amateurs in this hobby do more work and garner better results than the professionals. the fact that you're not paid for any of this and they are makes an even louder statement.

rudy.

kingjammy24
12-19-2008, 03:43 PM
Understand, but don't you think him adding that, and it being proven he didn't, hurts the bat?

But it is the only Rawlings known gamer I know of.

Regard, Tony

i don't think it hurts the bat per se as long as it's still a legit arod gamer. i think it reduces the value from what it was given that it's not a HR bat and HR bats tend to fetch a higher price. personally, i think if the inscription is bogus it should be removed. then at a minimum you don't have a bat with a big, fat lie written on it. what'll you have left is a rare rawlings arod gamer. not quite as valuable as it was when it was a HR bat but still a very nice piece and obviously a much better scenario than had you discovered it was an outright fake.

rudy.

kingjammy24
12-19-2008, 04:05 PM
at least your bat was an atypical rawlings and thus could be differentiated from a LVS on video. what about all those folks out there with arod LVS HR bats.

$13,459 and a PSA 10: http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/Auction_Item.asp?Auction_ID=44730

for over $13k, i hope they didn't just blindly trust the arod inscription.

over $10k: http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/Auction_Item.asp?Auction_ID=42347

over $5k: http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/Auction_Item.asp?Auction_ID=39077

it goes on and on. a nice handful of blond, LVS G174s signed as "game used" with arod letters as well. this one's my fav:

http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/Auction_Item.asp?Auction_ID=8973

"Top bat expert, Dave Bushing, blessed this one with his highest praise, the coveted "A-10" grade, and for good reason...Acquired from A-Rod's personal marketing company, with his personal holographic authenticating sticker and an LOA signed by the man himself." i'm curious if, much like the short-sleeved lambert given an 8.5 by mears, they actually have a single photo showing arod swinging a blonde G174 in a game.

fast forward a little, and this blonde G174 is sold as a BP bat for a little over $300:

http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/Auction_Item.asp?Auction_ID=35793

from one of john taube's articles:
"To some extent, the sports memorabilia business has made a mockery of player provenance. Many of today's stars sell their own equipment making us all familiar with the LOAs signed by the players that accompany items. "Game-used" is the catch phrase for the elusive grade of "10". It is commonplace for modern bats to achieve a grade of 10 based solely on an LOA from the player or the company representing them. However, many bats signed and represented as "game-used" are not what they appear to be. Too many mistakes are made. We have seen bats signed as game-used that have only been used in batting practice, and bats signed with specific Home Run notations that do not match the bat being used by the player when viewing the game film. We have also seen promotional model bats with bogus use signed off as having been game-used by the player, and even bats that have seen no use at all, signed as having been game-used. Believe us, you name it and we've seen it. All this adds up to a lack of credibility for the provenance letter that accompanies some of today's player's bats, and this sometimes even includes the LOA's signed by the players themselves!"

rudy.

BULBUS
12-19-2008, 04:31 PM
Maybe Arod used the bat in the Toronto game, but just not to hit the homerun. I hope once you get the videos, it will clear things up. This is some serious detective work! :eek:

GameBats
12-19-2008, 04:44 PM
Tony,

I'm pulling for you. I hope the new video produces a positive result. I've heard similar stories over and over and have yet to hear of a happy ending. I will be delighted to read you're the first. Unfortunately, I think the "game used" value of the bat will be little more than $0 without any photo/video of AROD utilizing a Rawlings bat. Does such a photo or video exist?


John

3arod13
12-19-2008, 06:10 PM
First, I want to say thanks for all the support and wishes that this turns out good for me. Although I know many of you don't think so, based on Arod's game used habits, I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

Prior to me obtaining my first game used bat, a 1993 Juan Gonzalez Gamer back in 1993, I only collected sports cards and autographs. Only over the past few years, since finding GUU, did I find myself interested in game used stuff. Especially considering what the baseball card hobby turned into with all the inserts and how expensive the hobby became. I collected autographs and sports cards for more than 25 years.

When I bought the Rawlings bat, here's what I considered. I knew Arod did use Rawlings early in his career. I knew a Rawlings bat was rare. I knew the signature was from 1996. In addition to the documentation that game with the bat, including a letter signed by Arod, I felt a less of a chance that in Arod's first year, he would be doing what many consider him doing today. With that said, I felt good about the bat. But even with all that, I knew I would push forward to find proof. By the way, GUU helped me do that. As you always say...over and over...DO YOU HOMEWORK!

When it's all said and done, I really hope all this works out.

Regards, Tony

Bondsgloves
12-19-2008, 11:49 PM
I think we are all missing the point. That bat may not be what is was sold to be. Tony was mislead and the bat is not as significant as once thought. Regardless if its rare being an early rawlings, the bat is worth less than what it should of been worth today! No doubt you have a great bat, but there is certainly some kind of loss in value. Tony I feel for you, not only is this a financial but an emotional let down to a degree. You bought this bat not just because he's your favorite player but as an investment as well.
If that bat does not match the game in Toronto you have a legitmate reason to seek some kind of compensation. I think this is similar to having purchased a forged signature, you thought when you purchased the item it was one thing and now its not what you were told it was when purchased.

The guy makes millions and even more off selling hos equipment. He should be held accountable for what he's signing his name to.

3arod13
12-20-2008, 07:12 AM
I think we are all missing the point. That bat may not be what is was sold to be. Tony was mislead and the bat is not as significant as once thought. Regardless if its rare being an early rawlings, the bat is worth less than what it should of been worth today! No doubt you have a great bat, but there is certainly some kind of loss in value. Tony I feel for you, not only is this a financial but an emotional let down to a degree. You bought this bat not just because he's your favorite player but as an investment as well.
If that bat does not match the game in Toronto you have a legitmate reason to seek some kind of compensation. I think this is similar to having purchased a forged signature, you thought when you purchased the item it was one thing and now its not what you were told it was when purchased.

The guy makes millions and even more off selling hos equipment. He should be held accountable for what he's signing his name to.

Well said! You're correct...because Arod is my favorite player, and as an investment.

When Monday comes, I will view the video of the game between the Boston Red Sox at Seattle Mariners on 31 May 1996,. If it shows that Arod didn't us a Rawlings to hit career HR #15 in this game, this provides factual visual proof that Arod didn't use a Rawlings bat to hit either Career HR #15 or HR #15 of 1996. To me, this will be more than devistating to me!

As I stated before, there's no question Arod signed this bat in 1996. However, he signed the LOA when he was with the Texas Rangers, years later. I believe that this bat was sent to Arod Authentic for authentication. The autheticators then may have assumed the HR inscription was for his 15th HR in 1996, looked it up where he would have hit that HR, put the letter together, and Arod signed it. Problem for Arod is, he signed this LOA which is very specific in details. When, where, and who he hit the HR off of.

I truly hope when I view the video on Monday, it shows Arod hit career HR #15 in this game. I really do. I know many don't care for Arod. However, I really hope this works out. I have researched finding a video or picture of Arod using a Rawlings bat, and all has been unsuccessful. Many know he did use Rawlings early in his career. However, there is just no visual proof to date.

I do agree that if it is proven by both videos that Arod didn't hit HR #15 in either game, Arod should make every effort to make this right. You can't argue with solid evidence like this. A letter signed by Arod, and two videos to show the LOA is not true. Whether Arod Authentic staff did the research for the LOA, which may be proven wrong, Arod put his name on the LOA, and to me he should be held accountable.

I will wait for Monday to view the video and see what the result are. I will also tell you that I have been contacted by someone who wants to do a story about this situation. Not sure if it's someone who is part of this forum, or if someone in this forum contacted them about this situation.
In the end, I would prefer that this all works out with the video on Monday.

Oh, and I would like to say kudos to Troy at MEARS. Although I wasn't happy with the statement he put in the LOA for this bat, it may turn out why exactly Troy did so. He was concerned that if someday a photo or video did show up and proved Arod didn't use a Rawlings in the game at Toronto, it would come back on him. In this case, he may have been just right. So kudos to Troy at MEARS.

On the other hand, I agree with Rudy. The authentication process has to be more than just going to Corbis, Gettyimages, etc. to find a photo match. And if you don't, you stop there. If you're going to charge people for researching and authenticating their items, then do the work no matter what it takes.

Regards, Tony

3arod13
12-20-2008, 08:14 AM
DVD arrived at my local FEDEX. Called, but they said it's scheduled for Monday delivery. BUMMER!


Date/Time
http://www.fedex.com/images/ascend/shared/spacer.gif
Activity
http://www.fedex.com/images/ascend/shared/spacer.gif
Location
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Details

Dec 20, 2008 7:18 AM

At local FedEx facility

NORFOLK, VA



7:18 AM

At local FedEx facility

NORFOLK, VA

Package not due for delivery

6:32 AM

At dest sort facility

NORFOLK, VA



5:03 AM

Departed FedEx location

MEMPHIS, TN



Dec 19, 2008 6:38 PM

Left FedEx origin facility

SEATTLE, WA



5:46 PM

Picked up

SEATTLE, WA

GameBats
12-20-2008, 09:32 AM
Call FedEx and tell them you're picking it up. They will allow you to come and get it. If it's already on the truck you can pick it up when the truck gets back later today.

3arod13
12-21-2008, 06:07 AM
1) i don't think the pics of arod in mid-swing are of much use. it's clear that the roof is closed during that game. when the roof is closed, they turn the stadium lights on and those things are pretty massive. i think, as andrew lang stated, there's definitely light being reflected off the bat. you can see light being reflected all over the place in those photos from the arod's helmet to some bald guys in the crowd.

2) what should be looked for is the white rawlings ring. i've posted some pics. in the third pic, you can see a part of the label yet you can also see there's no white ring around it.

my personal opinion, from the pics presented here, is that it's a LVS. if that's really the case, then that really, really sucks. ultimately though, i guess i'd rather know the truth even if it's bad. maybe arod just got the HR number mixed up? personally, i'd look for pics of HRs #14, 15, and 17. maybe he just got the bats mixed up.

http://img352.imageshack.us/img352/1216/sillyjv9.jpg

http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/551/silly2zw2.jpg

http://img352.imageshack.us/img352/6797/silly3mm9.jpg

rudy.

Rudy,

No Ring? What does that refer to?

Tony

kingjammy24
12-21-2008, 12:24 PM
Rudy,

No Ring? What does that refer to?

Tony

tony

ring = the "ring" on rawlings bats of that era. on your bat the "rawlings" label has a white ring around it. it goes all the way around the bat and is only dissected by the "rawlings label". when looking at footage, you should be able to see this white ring. in the third photo i posted, you can clearly see half the label yet there's no white ring going around it as would be seen with your rawlings bat.

rudy.

Lokee
12-21-2008, 02:21 PM
Here is A-Rod posong with a Rawlings bat like yours sorta. This card is also from 1996.

http://www.checkoutmycards.com/CardImages/Cards/059/102/09b.jpg

Lokee
12-21-2008, 02:24 PM
notice the white ring and also notice the white lettering.

3arod13
12-21-2008, 02:34 PM
Got it, thanks! Based on the pics provided from the game Seattle at Toronto on 25 June 1996, which Arod hit his 15th HR of 1996 (20th of his career), he did it with a Louisville Slugger.

I Guess all I have to hope for now is when I view the video tomorrow of the Game between the Boston Red Sox at Seattle Mariners on 31 May 1996, Arod used a Rawlings bat to hit career HR #15 in that game.

I still hope that Arod signed the bat HR #15 1996, and could have been indicating it was his 15th career HR,which he hit in 1996.

My fingers are crossed.

Regards, Tony

bigtruck260
12-21-2008, 11:02 PM
Tony -

Some will say you didn't do your homework - and not to trust guys like A-Rod who sign everything they are told to...though Andrew Lang and I share a philosophy when it comes to Alex specifically. It has been proven that he sometimes just signs things without knowing specifics...

In your defense - what you saw was a once in a lifetime type grab, and you probably didn't have the time to do the research you have done to this point. I easily could have made a decision like that based on the player LOA - I won't do it now. What you have in your collection is pretty historical if it is not the #15 career bat. With Alex's public image at an all time LOW, certainly someone will take care of you simply to avoid any more negative PR.

Sucks that a faithful fan like yourself has to second guess a major purchase from your favorite player.

D

allstarsplus
12-22-2008, 11:25 AM
I Guess all I have to hope for now is when I view the video tomorrow of the Game between the Boston Red Sox at Seattle Mariners on 31 May 1996, Arod used a Rawlings bat to hit career HR #15 in that game.

I still hope that Arod signed the bat HR #15 1996, and could have been indicating it was his 15th career HR,which he hit in 1996.

My fingers are crossed.

Regards, Tony

Tony - We are all wishing this is the case with the bat! You deserve something great to come of all this.

Hopefully today is the day to get some great news!!!!!;)

Rboitano
12-22-2008, 05:43 PM
Have any update? Were you able to view the video?

thomecollector
12-22-2008, 05:52 PM
DVD arrived at my local FEDEX. Called, but they said it's scheduled for Monday delivery. BUMMER!


Date/Time
http://www.fedex.com/images/ascend/shared/spacer.gif
Activity
http://www.fedex.com/images/ascend/shared/spacer.gif
Location
http://www.fedex.com/images/ascend/shared/spacer.gif
Details

Dec 20, 2008 7:18 AM

At local FedEx facility

NORFOLK, VA



7:18 AM

At local FedEx facility

NORFOLK, VA

Package not due for delivery

6:32 AM

At dest sort facility

NORFOLK, VA



5:03 AM

Departed FedEx location

MEMPHIS, TN



Dec 19, 2008 6:38 PM

Left FedEx origin facility

SEATTLE, WA



5:46 PM

Picked up

SEATTLE, WA
Tony,
Do you live in Va ? I live in Newport News, Va .

3arod13
12-22-2008, 06:09 PM
Have any update? Were you able to view the video?

Yes, I got the video. However, it was a fast video clip of Griffey's and Arod's HR. Griffey, it showed him standing at the plate, and you can see he is using a LVS. Arod's clip is so fast, you can't tell. The bat is black, but you can see details.

I emailed the TV station in Seattle and asked if they could view the game footage.

I'm bumming right now.

Regards, Tony

3arod13
12-22-2008, 06:09 PM
Tony,
Do you live in Va ? I live in Newport News, Va .

Yes, live in Great Bridge, Chesapeake

3arod13
12-22-2008, 06:10 PM
Yes, I got the video. However, it was a fast video clip of Griffey's and Arod's HR. Griffey, it showed him standing at the plate, and you can see he is using a LVS. Arod's clip is so fast, you can't tell. The bat is black, but you can see details.

I emailed the TV station in Seattle and asked if they could view the game footage.

I'm bumming right now.

Regards, Tony

metsbats
12-22-2008, 06:41 PM
Tony,

I've been following the thread and want to express my disappointment too. Ironic timing to find this out around Christmas time. It's just like finding out that Santa does not exist. (no joke intended)

I completely agree with everyone that someone needs to be held accountable for misrepresenting this bat to you whether it be the company who sold you the bat or Arod himself.

Sure you re a Arod fan and in it for investment purposes too but the emotional factor comes into play too. This bat was the center piece of your collection and we all on this forum know how important this bat was to you and how proud you were of owning it.

I'm glad you got an offer for someone to write a story about this and I think the more press you get on this will only help you get restitution.

I personally would like to see that restitution come from the Man himself.

3arod13
12-22-2008, 07:29 PM
Tony,

I've been following the thread and want to express my disappointment too. Ironic timing to find this out around Christmas time. It's just like finding out that Santa does not exist. (no joke intended)

I completely agree with everyone that someone needs to be held accountable for misrepresenting this bat to you whether it be the company who sold you the bat or Arod himself.

Sure you re a Arod fan and in it for investment purposes too but the emotional factor comes into play too. This bat was the center piece of your collection and we all on this forum know how important this bat was to you and how proud you were of owning it.

I'm glad you got an offer for someone to write a story about this and I think the more press you get on this will only help you get restitution.

I personally would like to see that restitution come from the Man himself.

Thank you so much for your kind words, comments, and support!

First, I commend all of you for what you provide to us rookie game used collector in this forum and this hobby. You have nothing financially to gain and yet you go out of your way to provide many of us with your knowledge and guidance. I commend all of you!

I'm just a one player collector. My favorite player...Alex Rodriguez!

I will not let this matter die. I will pursue this until I have video proof of both games in which Arod could only have hit either HR #15 of 1996 or career HR #15.

If proven not to be so in either game, I will give Arod the opportunity to address this matter and make it right. If he fails to do so, then I agree with many of you...it will show what Arod is truly about!

I bought this bat with an LOA from Alex Rodriguez. An LOA that is very specific in detail. Although I do realize that Arod trusted those who ran Arod Authentic, he should still be accountable for anything he puts his name on. Just as we all are. I believe they assumed the inscrption on the bat was for Arod's 15th HR of 1996. Typed the LOA for Arod's signature and he signed it. Well, that was proven to be wrong. Now, I will look at his career HR#15. If not hit with a Rawlings. Then Arod has a problem.

I know many don't like Arod. However, I do. I like him as a player. I may not like how he handles his game used stuff, but I like him as a player. I respect his work ethic and his love for the game of baseball. His pesonal life is his business.

It won't be long before I have all the facts. I only can hope that Arod steps up and addresses this matter.

If you think about it, they are just baseball players. We should be priasing our fighterfighters, police men and women, our military, or school teachers, our doctors and nurses, and I could go on and on.

To all of you, I wish you and your families a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

Regards and all my best, Tony

3arod13
12-22-2008, 07:49 PM
Tony,I completely agree with everyone that someone needs to be held accountable for misrepresenting this bat to you whether it be the company who sold you the bat or Arod himself.

The only person that should be held accountable is Alex Rodriguez. He signed the document.

joelsabi
12-22-2008, 09:10 PM
tony,

curious to know were you the first owner? when did you buy the bat and from whom.

regards

joel

GarkoCollector
12-22-2008, 10:05 PM
Tony,
This whole situation makes me ill by association. Would love to hear what direction you are planning to take this next.
Tom

3arod13
12-23-2008, 09:13 AM
I can email anyone the video clip and maybe you can slow it down enough to tell. I see bright white on the bat over Arod's shoulder, but it's so quick, it's hard to tell.

tony

yanks12025
12-23-2008, 10:59 AM
Tony,
I know you answered this question already somewhere in one of these threads. But where did you buy the bat from, beccause i still think anyone can write 15 homerun on a bat and also make a letter up?

3arod13
12-23-2008, 11:14 AM
Tony,
I know you answered this question already somewhere in one of these threads. But where did you buy the bat from, beccause i still think anyone can write 15 homerun on a bat and also make a letter up?

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=19264&stc=1&d=1229627440

joelsabi
12-23-2008, 11:16 AM
tony,

curious to know were you the first owner? when did you buy the bat and from whom.

regards

joel

the reason i bring this up is to say that if this bat was first offered for sale before June 25, 1996 then it has to be the May 31 date for the bat. arod was really hot in 1996 so his stuff was out their pretty quickly.

3arod13
12-23-2008, 11:57 AM
the reason i bring this up is to say that if this bat was first offered for sale before June 25, 1996 then it has to be the May 31 date for the bat. arod was really hot in 1996 so his stuff was out their pretty quickly.

Joel,

I have owned this bat for the past 5 years.

Tony

GarkoCollector
12-23-2008, 01:11 PM
I can email anyone the video clip and maybe you can slow it down enough to tell. I see bright white on the bat over Arod's shoulder, but it's so quick, it's hard to tell.

tony

Tony,
email it to me and I will see if I can isolate it using Adobe Art Studio.
Tom

kingjammy24
12-23-2008, 01:46 PM
tony's bat comes with "arod authenticated" certs. "arod authenticated" didn't exist in 1996 or 1997 or even 1998. from what i can tell, it began in sometime around 2003/04. arod must've signed that cert years after he hit the HR. "arod authenticated" was something scot monette, of ESM/Elite, began after awhile and i don't even think ESM existed in 1996. from what i recall, a lot of arod's stuff in 1996 and 1997 was handled by coast to coast and/or millcreek. you wonder when ESM first acquired this bat and when arod signed it. that cert was definitely signed years after 1996. did arod hang on to the bat for years and then hand it over to ESM? if so, how did he know that was the bat he hit that specific HR with? or did arod just pull out any old bat and someone decided it would be a HR bat? maybe they figured a collector would never be able to view 1 specific at-bat from a random ballgame that occurred years ago.

really it reminds me of that mastro hank aaron bat where aaron signed a specific HR # on the bat over 30 yrs after he last saw the bat. crazy.

it's supposed to be a florida-based LLC yet when i searched the FL state business records database, there was no LLC (or any type of business) called "arod authenticated".

anyway, it looks like scot monette/ESM likely has his hands full as a records search reveals he recently had a $31,000 judgement filed against him by "HIDEJI HORIKO AND NEW YORK SPORTS, LLC" in sept 2008.

rudy.

3arod13
12-23-2008, 02:00 PM
tony's bat comes with "arod authenticated" certs. "arod authenticated" didn't exist in 1996 or 1997 or even 1998. from what i can tell, it began in sometime around 2003/04. arod must've signed that cert years after he hit the HR. "arod authenticated" was something scot monette, of ESM/Elite, began after awhile and i don't even think ESM existed in 1996. from what i recall, a lot of arod's stuff in 1996 and 1997 was handled by coast to coast and/or millcreek. you wonder when ESM first acquired this bat and when arod signed it. that cert was definitely signed years after 1996. did arod hang on to the bat for years and then hand it over to ESM? if so, how did he know that was the bat he hit that specific HR with? or did arod just pull out any old bat and someone decided it would be a HR bat? maybe they figured a collector would never be able to view 1 specific at-bat from a random ballgame that occurred years ago.

really it reminds me of that mastro hank aaron bat where aaron signed a specific HR # on the bat over 30 yrs after he last saw the bat. crazy.

it's supposed to be a florida-based LLC yet when i searched the FL state business records database, there was no LLC (or any type of business) called "arod authenticated".

anyway, it looks like scot monette/ESM likely has his hands full as a records search reveals he recently had a $31,000 judgement filed against him by "HIDEJI HORIKO AND NEW YORK SPORTS, LLC" in sept 2008.

rudy.

My guess would be Arod signed the bat in 1996 (signature dates 96) and someone owned it. Someone later it was sent to Arod Authenticated for authentication. Hence, under Arod's signature "TEXAS RANGERS."

I contacted NESN to see if I could get a copy of the video from them. They have rights to all Red Sox games.

The TV station in Seattle is still looking for a better video.

I won't give up on this. I found a way to get a video of the Toronto game. Someone will have a good copy of the Seattle/Boston game.

I was asked what will I do if both games prove he didn't use a Rawlings. I will leave it up to Arod. Hopefully he will do the right thing. His name is on the bat and Arod Authenticated LOA.

Tony

dcrules01
12-23-2008, 02:04 PM
Tony I am pulling for you and hoping everything turns out good.The amount of leg work you have put into this deserves a good ending.

Rboitano
12-23-2008, 04:44 PM
Regardless even if the Sox and Mariners game shows it to be the bat, the COA and the inscription on the bat is wrong. I wouldnt even worry about finding that game, its allready dead wrong. I would contact who you can and try to get some answers.