schill bidding

[jojac]

I've collected baseball items for over 30 years now but am pretty new to game used collecting. I've seen a number of items recently on a MLB auction site that seem to get consistently run up by a certain individual. This bidder ran me up on a jersey and then quit when he matched my bid. I know that these things happen but since that incident 8 weeks ago I've seen this individual do it other bidders and the suspicious part is that he has changed his bidder name 3 times in that 8 week time frame. How do you deal with individuals who you suspect are playing games while bidding???

[onlyalbert]

I've collected baseball items for over 30 years now but am pretty new to game used collecting. I've seen a number of items recently on a MLB auction site that seem to get consistently run up by a certain individual. This bidder ran me up on a jersey and then quit when he matched my bid. I know that these things happen but since that incident 8 weeks ago I've seen this individual do it other bidders and the suspicious part is that he has changed his bidder name 3 times in that 8 week time frame. How do you deal with individuals who you suspect are playing games while bidding???

How would he know he has matched your bid? May just be coincidence. That is why I never bid on MLB auctions until the last 5 minutes. If you are putting in multiple bids while it runs then you are running yourself up at the same time in theory.

[jojac]

It was in the last 5 that I bid but as you know the bidding time extends for another 5 minutes with each additional bid and that's where he started tacking it on. Once you get within $10 of some ones high bid then you can see that the original bidder is maxed out. Once this bidder max's someone out he quits. I can understand that these things happen from time to time but to change your bidder name 3 times I think is very unusual. How many times have you changed your bidder name in the last 2 months???

[paul457]

I see it on NFL Auctions too. There are a few folks - 'drewwins' screen name comes to mind, that bid in $5 increments on EVERYTHING. Never seen them win anything, but they sure bid a lot...

[Steeleraddict]

Like previously stated. It's very easy to find out what their maximum bid is. He's just costing you hundreds of dollars. Some do it out of spite. Some have speculated it's because they can't afford it so want to waste your money.

I didnt know they were changing their screen names. How do you find that out? And what screen names have they used so we can all be aware.

[jojac]

Every time you bid and theres a change to your bid then MLB notifies you with an email. When I checked a previous email after some time where this individual ran me up then I could see he had changed his name. I guess once you change your bidder name it even updates in past history.
I'm new to this site so I don't want to start naming names right off the bat because I'm not even sure that would be appropriate but I will say it happened while bidding on Red Sox items. Only once did I have a problem with him but I've seen him do it to a number of people.

[Misha]

Sorry but I can't understand how you think the same bidder changed their name in the middle of the auction. Couldn't it just be that another person bid the same amount and their name is showing up in the bid history? Just curious

[jojac]

Sorry maybe I wasn't clear but it wasn't in the middle of a bid that he made the change. Its after he's run some one up and the bid has closed that he changes his name. He did it to me two months ago on a jersey and you tend to remember the name if its been done to you. Now every time I go back in my email history and open that jersey item I will see a different bidders name listed if he makes a name change.
Like I said before, he's only done to me once but I've noticed where he's done it to a number of other people and that's why I brought this up.

[earlywynnfan]

I can understand shill bidding from an auction house or ebay: the point is to drive up the price on an item you own.

But I'm mystified why someone would shill bid on MLB or NFL auctions. Nobody out there owns this stuff, except the teams. Are we implying the teams are shill bidding? Or that some jackass is just out there bidding people up because he has nothing better to do?

Ken

[jojac]

The lesser of the 2 evils would be some idiot just running you up. The other side of it would be hard to take but the thing that bothers me is that its someones job to sell this stuff to us and the only way they look good in managements eyes is to get top dollar for it. A lot of the teams now have game used stores at the ball parks where they could get a premium prices on their items. If an item posted on an auction site isn't meeting what they consider to be fair market value expectation then why not have a shill run it up??? Worse case scenario is they win the bid and sell the item at a later date thru their store . I'm not saying this is whats happening just that it could easily be done.
You can understand shill bidding from an auction house or ebay then you should also be wondering as I do if is it happening here. Auction house, ebay or mlb are all doing it for money so why would one be any better than the other.

[xsentrixsupra]

I can understand ebay or other auction houses. However when buying directly from MLB or NBA or NFL, etc........that money all goes to charities for the most part and as much as it might be to the common man, the difference between 2500 versus 3000 for a jersey meant for charity really isn't a drop in the bucket for organizations worth billions.

[jojac]

If its true that the majority of money did go to charities then theres still the incentive to get as much $$$ as possible in an auction setting for an item due to the tax break on contributions. The more they make then the more they can donate and the more they can write off. That's a great deal for them because then they look good donating your money that you've spent on an item and their money stays in their pocket. MLB, ebay and auction house are all doing this for no other reason then to make money......they're all businesses.

[xsentrixsupra]

If its true that the majority of money did go to charities then theres still the incentive to get as much $$$ as possible in an auction setting for an item due to the tax break on contributions. The more they make then the more they can donate and the more they can write off. That's a great deal for them because then they look good donating your money that you've spent on an item and their money stays in their pocket. MLB, ebay and auction house are all doing this for no other reason then to make money......they're all businesses.


I don't know how much goes to charities, but I'm pretty sure its well over half. Anyways, I still don't feel on official league sites that are auctioning stuff off schill bidding happens that much, probably more coincidence.

[jojac]

Might be coincidence but then why change your bidder name after you run up a couple of people. He's had 3 bidders name in 2 month's and that seems suspicious to me. I haven't been doing this that long and that's why I came to you guys with the question. So I guess when I see some one bid a few people up and quit then change his bidder name and start running other people up and then change his name again I should just consider it coincidence???
I guess I'm naive because I didn't think their would be a reason to change your name so often if you were playing by the rules.

[onlyalbert]

Might be coincidence but then why change your bidder name after you run up a couple of people. He's had 3 bidders name in 2 month's and that seems suspicious to me. I haven't been doing this that long and that's why I came to you guys with the question. So I guess when I see some one bid a few people up and quit then change his bidder name and start running other people up and then change his name again I should just consider it coincidence???
I guess I'm naive because I didn't think their would be a reason to change your name so often if you were playing by the rules.

What would be the point of changing the bidder name? If you never plan on winning anything why would you care about the name? It is strange and frustrating, but shilling goes on all the time and nothing ever seems to get done about it.

[jojac]

Nobody does anything about it because the people who could do something are making money from it. We're the only ones taking a hit so why would they care.

[jojac]

What would be the point of changing the bidder name? If you never plan on winning anything why would you care about the name? It is strange and frustrating, but shilling goes on all the time and nothing ever seems to get done about it.

The reason I feel he keeps changing his bidders name is because he doesn't want anyone to catch on to the fact that he's shill bidding.
If this week he bids you up on an auction item under the bidders name say "BOB" and then he changes his name to "Eric" after the auction closes then he can bid you up again two weeks from now on a separate auction item and you'll never know you're being run up by the same guy.
The Red Sox posted some new items for bid this past Friday and of course he changed his bidders name again and ran someone up.

[Mark17]

The situation you describe is a bummer. From a "what can I do about it" perspective the answer is simple: Only bid what you're willing to pay, and tell yourself that if you win the item, it will probably be at your max bid, so bid accordingly.

But, I know that's easy to say... There are a lot of times on ebay where I put a bid out there that's a little higher than I really want to pay, just to be sure to win. But in doing so I'm counting on getting it for less.

I think it would be hard for anyone to police that situation, because there's no way to know whether a bidder actually wants to win an item or is just playing a game with it. Is there some way you can bid an odd amount, so when he tries to nudge you up, he actually becomes the high bidder? Get that to happen a couple times and he'll stop doing it.

[jojac]

This guy has a knack for matching bids dollar for dollar. Another thing I noticed he likes to do is that he'll jump in on a auction item with days left when the bidding stalls. He'll max people out at that point and quit. He bids like a shill that has an interest in the items presented and that's what get me because this isn't a private auction its a MLB auction.
I bid an odd number as suggested when he got me and he matched my bid and quit.

[10thMan]

"Changing" bidder name & bidding with different names are two different things. Shill bidding happens, are you saying the different names are the same person? MLB is any different than the rest of the world, specially when it comes to money.

[Mark17]

What are the rules about retracting a bid? Can you trap him that way - you bid, he matches, you retract at the last minute?

I realize auction companies don't like bid retractions but maybe if you could find an example where you could claim a legitimate reason...

Just a thought.

[10thMan]

MLB *is not any different. Here's one for you. I see Stadium employees grab HR balls on a regular basis, not sure, but I think they have them authenticated. I'd be willing to bet they keep the "actual" baseball & the other one goes to market.

[jojac]

I pretty much just bid on the things that mean something to me so then its hard to even think about retracting your bid. You know how it is with this stuff, if that item finally comes up that you really wanted then you'll fight for it because it may be your only chance. Theres no forecast that I know of with MLB that lets you know what might be coming down the line so you tend to jump at opportunities.
Yes, its the same guy using different names. Seems like he changes between auction postings. So like I said before, he'll bid you up under one bidder name and then when the auction ends he'll change his bidder name and start bidding people up again. I don't think people realize they're being bid up by the same guy using a different name that he recently changed.

[sportsnbikes]

I can understand shill bidding from an auction house or ebay: the point is to drive up the price on an item you own.

But I'm mystified why someone would shill bid on MLB or NFL auctions. Nobody out there owns this stuff, except the teams. Are we implying the teams are shill bidding? Or that some jackass is just out there bidding people up because he has nothing better to do?

Ken

Would it be plausible to think that the people who run these stores for the teams work on a commission as well? I wouldn't put anything past anyone.

[jojac]

Would it be plausible to think that the people who run these stores for the teams work on a commission as well? I wouldn't put anything past anyone.

I think in this case what you're saying is very possible. This doesn't seem like an idiot just messing with people. Maybe I'm wrong but this seems like someone who has something at stake in the item up for bid.

[johnsontravis@ymail.com]

Ive also found Reds auctions to be a little fishy. Those items have crazy bidding action at end time and items will ballon 2-3 times the prior amount. Its just a little strange if you ask me when items are going for insane prices. The Brewers charge $400 for a Jean Segura bat and when the Reds had one(broken in two full pieces) up for action it hit $450 before I backed out. It had nice use, but two pieces over even the Brewers crazy price is insane.

Then again they sold a Choo bat in the same auction for over $1,250 so maybe Reds fans are just not very bright bidders.

[Mark17]

Would it be plausible to think that the people who run these stores for the teams work on a commission as well? I wouldn't put anything past anyone.

If it was an "inside job" they would have access to bidding data, and it sure would be easy to shill bid...

[jojac]

If it was an "inside job" they would have access to bidding data, and it sure would be easy to shill bid...

Then that could explain the knack for matching bids.
I bid a jersey at $1201.00, he ran me up some until he matched me at that price and he quits.
Shortly after on a separate item some one bid $1250 for a jersey, he matched their price and quit.
If an item stalls in bidding he bids up the current high bidder and either matches the current bid or he'll bid $1,199 if the max bid is $1200. Always quits when he max's someone out, never to bid on that item again and then changes his name between the close and start of each auction.
I sometimes wonder if his bidding isn't set to the bottom dollar a seller would expect for their item.

[sportsnbikes]

This hobby is pretty sad sometimes. The greed and selfishness involved is disheartening at best. I still love the hobby but it doesn't come without it's frustrations, that's for sure.

[danesei@yahoo.com]

If its true that the majority of money did go to charities then theres still the incentive to get as much $$$ as possible in an auction setting for an item due to the tax break on contributions. The more they make then the more they can donate and the more they can write off. That's a great deal for them because then they look good donating your money that you've spent on an item and their money stays in their pocket. MLB, ebay and auction house are all doing this for no other reason then to make money......they're all businesses.

This makes no sense logically. If the organization donates 100% of the proceeds of the auction, what is being written off? The donated amount comes in and goes out. The "write off" is against "profits" that were immediately donated.

Best way I can explain it:

Team A makes $45mm net of expenses and decides to donate their jerseys, etc to a charity. The auctioned items sell for $500k. The team then gives the $500k to the charity.

Team B makes $45mm net of expenses and also decides to donate their jerseys, etc to a charity. The auctioned items sell for $300k. The team then gives the $300k to the charity.

Both Team A and Team B made $45mm in taxable net revenue after the auction. The assumed shilling would serve no purpose for the teams in question, from a taxable event standpoint. The teams don't get to write off the donated cash AND the value of the bats. They only get the write off the amount that was donated, which also counts as additional revenue from outside sources.

Yes, Team A donated $200k more than Team B, but Team A also has to show that as $200k extra in revenue, which then got donated. The net result for both teams is $0.

[jojac]

I based my reply on some notion that the selling of jerseys is done for the purpose of some charity as people have claimed. I'm not gonna guess how they or who ever shows this money as income and then try to guess where it gets dispersed. Theres room to play with the numbers if you take into account the cost to prep, advertise and sell these jerseys not to mention the initial cost of the jersey. Theres room to play with the numbers at tax time if the charity thing is what their doing. The whole charity thing is insignificant either way when you talk about possible shill bidding.
The bottom line is someone is getting paid to sell these jerseys and show a profit so how and who is doing this for the teams. If they're being paid a commission to move these items then no one would be surprised by possible shill bidding. Teams that have their own team store have thousands of people moving thru there on game day. If an item doesn't meet expectations at auction could they high bid it and later offer it to one of the store regulars at a set price then turning a profit??? I think its very possible.

[johnsontravis@ymail.com]

I think the idea is a little far fetched. You guys understand MLB does run the MLB Auctions right? I think they control a lot more than you think too.

I'm guessing the auctions work a lot like EBay with the people in NY in the middle. I bought something that included a free hat and I was contacted by the MLB Auctions Coordinator for my hat size...not the Brewers. Seems like one of the things teams don't get is your contact info like email.

Just like EBay they see your username till you win that is it. Then they will get your address and so on.

[jojac]

I think the idea is a little far fetched. You guys understand MLB does run the MLB Auctions right? I think they control a lot more than you think too.
I'm guessing the auctions work a lot like EBay with the people in NY in the middle. I bought something that included a free hat and I was contacted by the MLB Auctions Coordinator for my hat size...not the Brewers. Seems like one of the things teams don't get is your contact info like email.
Just like EBay they see your username till you win that is it. Then they will get your address and so on.

I wish I could tell you whats going on with these auctions and who's running what but I don't know and I joined this form to kind of get educated. I'm pretty sure that the teams have more info then you think. I was looking for a certain item and I inquired thru an email to a team store. The employee responded that they didn't have the item I was looking for and then he mentioned some of the items I recently bought in auction. All he had was my name and email address and then he came up with that info on my previous auction purchases.