Rodman Shirt On Ebay

[hblakewolf]

Forum Readers-

Offered from the same seller as the Canseco/McGwire bat is the following:

Game worn Dennis Rodman jersey:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Dennis-Rodman-Game-Used-Jersey_W0QQitemZ260063984316QQihZ016QQcategoryZ501 35QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

The description reads, "Game used Dennis Rodman Jersey from the 1996-1997 season. How do I know its game used? He threw it to my daughter after an early exit from a game that year. He then signed it on the way out of the stadium. Champion size 46 + 3" length, designed and tailored exclusively for the Chicago Bulls 96/97. On the inside of the jersey is a 100% nylon tag with a hand writtrn 8 on the back. NBA gold finals patch in the upper left shoulder. "

This is one lucky dad! Not only did he grab the shirt when Rodman threw it up for grabs, he also had a chance to meet him after the same game!

Can a fellow Forum reader shed some light on Rodman's practice of throwing his jerseys into the stands? I thought he only threw them into the stands during home games, thus, the white jerseys were those the fans grabbed. This particular jersey is a red road. Also, the seller of the jersey is from Chicago and indicates he obtained this at the "stadium". I sent an email to the seller, asking what "stadium" he and his daughter obtained this at, however, never heard back. BTPH-any insight?

I have a client seeking a Rodman gamer, however, would appreciate any informaiton on his habit of giving his jerseys away.
Thanks.

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

[Utopian2630]

Howard,

I noticed that jersey earlier this afternoon as well and also saw that the seller also had a Ripken jersey and a Luke Appling jersey which was said to have been pulled from Sotherby's. For what it's worth, years back I had rodman sign an 8X10 during his Bulls days and the signature on the jersey doesn't look much like the signature I got.

[hblakewolf]

Howard,

I noticed that jersey earlier this afternoon as well and also saw that the seller also had a Ripken jersey and a Luke Appling jersey which was said to have been pulled from Sotherby's. For what it's worth, years back I had rodman sign an 8X10 during his Bulls days and the signature on the jersey doesn't look much like the signature I got.

Utopian-
The seller makes note in his description about the Ripken, "Either this is a game-worn Cal Ripken Jr. jersey, or not. "Combined with the fact that it is a size 44 and Ripken wore a 48, I'll put my money on it "not".

Howard Wiolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

[Utopian2630]

At least he doesn't say the Ripken comes with 'rock solid provinence'.

[both-teams-played-hard]

I only remember Rodman tossing his jersey into the stands after he was ejected (both home&away). I don't think it was ever a routine like Gilbert Arenas. Sounds like a far-fetched story. There should be a video tape of the game in existence. Right?

[both-teams-played-hard]

Could this lady be the eBay seller of the Rodman jersey? Maybe?

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/3784/oprahtj6.jpg

[OPRAH]

Forum members,
I am the owner of the items that Howard Wolf has taken on as his latest form of entertainment. Mr. Wolf has without provocation attacked my item descriptions on two of my past and current E-Bay auctions....The Canseco/Mcgwire bat and the Dennis Rodman jersey.Let me clarify that I miss wrote in the Rodman description that he threw it to her during an early exit. That should have read he flipped it to her during the teams exit. The "Stadium" that you refered to was in Milwaukee, not Chicago as "The Stadium"
that you referred to was called "The United Center"Howard. Milwaukee was the only way to afford to take 3 children to see the Bulls back then. A security guard saw what happened and told us which gate they would exit out of so we may try and get it signed, which we did. End of story. Is there something wrong with the jersey or are you still pissy about the Canseco?
Howard, I didn't reply to your request on the Rodman due to the fact that you pubicly posted my PRIVATE e-mail that I sent to you in regards to the Canseco bat.
Oh and Howard your unfounded statement that Dennis Rodman only gave or threw away his jerseys at HOME games can simply be refuted by doing a yahoo search of the Bulls first playoff game vs. the Washington Bullets in 1997. So rumor shouldn't be considered when authenticating an item.

Speaking of "doing your homework" as you use as you personal monicor,
I did "my homework" and you MOCK my efforts on this forum. Why Howard?
I purchased the Canseco bat on e-bay. I contacted the seller and found out where he purchased it from, the show in Overland Park, at Cansecos table from Jose and his agent. Then I contacted Steve Vusavich at the Oakland clubhouse and e-mailed him a pic of the knob and barrel and asked if it was consistent with Mcgwires. He then replied yes. I also did numerous photo matches of the 25 and they to matched. It came with a signed coa,and photo of him with the exact bat. What additional proof did I need? I am sorry if I don't have an extensive Mark Mcgwire photo library at my dispossal, like some of us do. You see Howard heres where the problem lies. In your perfect world there should have been a 33 on both the knob and barrel, along with the 25. But that would make to much sense. You act as if the players are identifing THEIR equipment to your specifications.
There is every reason to believe based on my "homework" that Macgwire did use that bat. Becouse I don't have the research "library" that you do, does that mean I shouldn't have listed it as is. The bat is what it is....a Jose Canseco gamer with Mark Mcgwires numbers on it. Why does this disturb you so?

Howard when was the last time that you posted something positive? I can wait....Are you that unhappy?
I simply listed some items that I own that I wanted to sell to raise some badly needed money to cover some surgeries that I recently had. I planned on over the years to getting items authenticated, just didn't do it and didn't plan on having to sell them now, wanted to save them for my children......you know, I'm such a lucky daddy, Howard. Why include that Howard? Rob,Eric,Chris, I'm sorry but I take that as a personal attack.
I have bought many items in the past before the advent of the forum. Some good, some not. I tried to describe my items to the best of my ability. Take the Ripken. I was told when I bought it that it was game used. Based on the information that I had that the 100% polyester tagging was the key. Wouldn't it have been more helpful of Mr. Wolf to contact me or post on the forum that it likely isn't based on the size being a 44? No there has to be some smart *** remark. Confrontation thats what sells. Makes for better reading I guess.
Maybe thats why so many people end their auctions early. I know I ended my Canseco early based on the direction this thread was going. Raising a question is one thing, implying or insinuatting is another. It cost me money. It cost other forum members the oportunity to bid on a great bat.
Whats the issue with the 1948 White Sox jersey? Sothebys November 14th auction, item #651 listed accidentally as a Cubs jersey. So I had them pull it. And the problem is???? The Mears letter is clearly stated in the description.
I'm ending the Ripken and Rodman auctions. I have spent way to much time on this. This used to be a hobby that I enjoyed, not so much anymore. If anyone wants to contact me to buy the Rodman jersey I will offer a double your money back guarantee if it doesn't pass Mears.DOUBLE.
By the way BTPH...that was a funny post, gave me my name!
Howard I sent you an e-mail the other day, trying to communicate in a civilized manner. Like I stated, you have choices, you can be a positive influence in the hobby or a destructive one. The choice is up to you. Happy Holidays!!!!

[Canseco44]

What does it take to get someone thrown off of this forum. I am new to this but I have seen Howard Wolf do nothing but attack this guy for no reason. I was the one who bought the Canseco/Mcgwire bat, and I'll tell you what, I have not dealt with a nicer guy. I also believe 100% that what he is saying is the truth. It was and still is very common practice for teammates to use each others bats. And how far fetched is it that at on time during their years together that one of them borrowed the others bat. It sounds like to me you are guilty until proven innocent here. I plan on having the bat authenticated by PSA/DNA just like I have done with his 400th Homerun bat and the bat he hit the 3-run HR in game 3 of the 1989 World Series with. Personally if this guy has any other Canseco stuff for sale, I will be first in line to buy. This is just my opinion.

Todd

[hblakewolf]

What does it take to get someone thrown off of this forum. I am new to this but I have seen Howard Wolf do nothing but attack this guy for no reason. I was the one who bought the Canseco/Mcgwire bat, and I'll tell you what, I have not dealt with a nicer guy. I also believe 100% that what he is saying is the truth. It was and still is very common practice for teammates to use each others bats. And how far fetched is it that at on time during their years together that one of them borrowed the others bat. It sounds like to me you are guilty until proven innocent here. I plan on having the bat authenticated by PSA/DNA just like I have done with his 400th Homerun bat and the bat he hit the 3-run HR in game 3 of the 1989 World Series with. Personally if this guy has any other Canseco stuff for sale, I will be first in line to buy. This is just my opinion.

Todd

Todd-
The seller in question indicated that the Canseco bat was also used by McGwire. I simply asked for proof. I have been collecting McGwire game used equipment for over 10 years, and have never seen him use a Worth bat in a photo or been shown any type of evidence he ever used a Worth bat during the late 1980's. The seller indicated it was used by McGwire-prove it. After my post, the seller indicated that he obtained the bat at a show, was also provided with a LOA from Canseco, and was told by Canseco that McGwire used the bat. It's a bit difficult to believe that this information would not be added to to he LOA at the time of purchase. Per the seller, you have Canseco and his agent sitting at a booth, you buy the bat and don't ask for the LOA to be amended? The seller also indicated he sent an email to the A's equipment manager, and was told the bat was used by McGwire. Can the seller provde a copy of this email?

You stement "I also believe 100% that what he is saying is the truth" is the exact reasoning used by so many in this hobby/industry that later proves to a major problem. It's great to put trust into people, but homeowrk and proof are a must.

Todd, enjoy the bat-it looks like a real gem!

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

[CollectGU]

It's entirely plausible that McGwire used this bat. Why would Canseco put #25 on his bat. Also, the 25 matches known exemplars of 25 on McGwire nobs and has been confirmed by Steve Vusavich. Unfortunately, not everything in this business can be photo matched. You take the info provided and decide whether or not that is enough for you to feel comfortable with the purchase....

Regards,
Dave

[Eric]

Not taking sides. Not getting involved. I just noticed that the jersey in the Oprah photo and the jersey that was being auctioned have the numbers and name in different places. Can someone find game pics showing

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/3784/oprahtj6.jpg
2593
Also, if I am reading correctly you said it was the Bulls at Milwaukee
from the 1996-1997 season. They played twice in Milwaukee that season
12-3-96 and 1-10-97
Looking for pics from the 12-3-96 game because you could put all of this to rest by photomatching your jersey
They wore a different style road jersey 1-10-97
http://cache.gettyimages.com/xc/72088124.jpg?v=1&c=MS_GINS&k=2&d=54DAFB2995215ED465A5E44956F17D12

Just throwing it out there
Eric

[jon_8_us]

I am trying to purchase this jersey from Sam as we speak for a customer that has been looking for a Rodman gamer for awhile.He has offered me a double my money back authentication guarantee!!Sound like someone thats a ripper to you?I have diligently searched for the game photo's that Eric speaks of and have come up dry.Any info about this jersey from an NBA jersey expert would be very helpful.I believe Sam and he is a very nice guy to deal with.Thats my two cents
jon

[Eric]

Rodman's hair is more vivid in this shot which is supposedly from 1996 against the Bucks. Could this be from the 12-3-96 game? Anyone have any leads?

http://www.robertseale.com/gallery.html?gallery=ACTION&skipno=7&currentIndex=2

[hblakewolf]

Eric-
That's great information you posted. Is it possible for either Rudy or another person familiar with locating photos on Getty, Corbus, etc. to match this red road jersey in question to the games you reference against the Bucks? Likewise, from your photos, it appears the name is higher on the road red jersey. Did the Bulls use jerseys during this season with the name positioned like this?

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

[worldchamps]

Rodman Nov 1996

http://cache.gettyimages.com/xc/345901.jpg?v=1&c=MS_GINS&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF193B3EA2C03450C9486E9218C75A82AD0CF

[otismalibu]

You can always try contacting a Milwaukee newspaper that covered the game, if you have the date the game was played.

I tracked down a photo from a 1983 NBA exhibition game in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada and purchased a print from the paper.

Maybe a longshot.

[Eric]

Besides the color of the ink on the autograph, what is the difference between the details on the Rodman that was being offered and this pro cut on ebay?

The tagging looks the same, as do the nameplate and number placement

http://cgi.ebay.com/DENNIS-RODMAN-PRO-CUT-BULLS-GAME-JERSEY-AUTO-NOT-UDA_W0QQitemZ220054220985QQihZ012QQcategoryZ50135Q QrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[hblakewolf]

Eric-
The difference between the two jerseys? You don't get a great story with the one being sold as a Pro-Cut!

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

[Eric]

I was actually asking that question seriously. Is there a difference between these two pieces?

Here's the one sold on ebay by sdb23

http://i23.ebayimg.com/05/i/000/7b/13/b512_1.JPG
http://i14.ebayimg.com/02/i/000/7b/13/be39_1.JPG
http://i8.ebayimg.com/06/i/000/7b/13/c69b_1.JPG

[both-teams-played-hard]

what is the difference between the details on the Rodman that was being offered and this pro cut on ebay?

The tagging looks the same, as do the nameplate and number placement


No difference. This is the reason why mid 90s Champion-made NBA superstar jerseys are impossible to authenticate, unless they REALLY come from the team. And also, why are there so many modern NBA superstar jerseys at auction? Where are the scrubs and bench-warmers?

[RobSteinmetz]

I think there is a difference in the placement of the NOB on the pro-cut jerseys versus those worn by the Bulls. In the photo of Rodman and MJ posted by worldchamps, the NOB on Rodman's jersey is placed lower than that of the jersey recently sold on eBay. Am I seeing things? I'm sure others would know more than I, but I recall hearing something about there being a correct "drop" on the NOB with Bulls shirts of this era. Has anyone else heard of this?

[hblakewolf]

Rob-
after I read your post, I checked my notes and you are correct. There was a story in SCD or Dave Miedema's newsletter some time ago about the differrence between the Pro-Cut and the team issued. According to this information, the Pro-Cuts only had 2 inches of space between the top of the lettering and the collar. the team issued had 5 inches. Check out the photos of the jerseys on ebay, and you can clearly see the difference in spacing as compared to the photo of Oprah holding a legit gamer.

FYI

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

[lund6771]

in a different thread I mentioned it was in the 92-93 baskekball season that champion made all those samples and put them in frames and people took them out and sold them as game -used...if i remember right there was 13 players:

Jordan, Pippen, Ewing, Drexler, Shaq, Laetner, Bird, Magic, Karl Malone, Larry Johnson, Barkley, Mullin..these are just to name a few...at first EVEYONE was buying these because they were tagged right....nothing like this had entered the hobby before and as a result there was little research being done right away...suspicians arose on the Karl Malone jerseys being sold because malone wore "K. Malone" because Jeff Malone was playing with the Jazz but the fakes just had "Malone"...

The same with Jordan & Pippen...the names were way to high on the jerseys and not "dropped"...the same as this Rodman...in the 90's DELETED was pumping this suff out faster than the speed of light...the FBI did get involved and that shut that down...Bird was already retired that year and they even went to lenghts to take the 92-93 tag off and take a 91 tag off a different jersey and had it sewn on the Bird...how do I know this?...because I bought one from them like this in 94 and reurned it right away..they asked why?...I told them "how dumb do you think I am?...there's stictch holes in the 1991 year tag all the way around it so it obviously came off a different shirt and sewn onto this one"...I shouldn't have told them that because they didn't make that mistake on the next fake they made up...Just like the post in the other thread, Historic's judgement day is coming soon, just like DELETED...

I'm sorry but I personally don't believe this guys story at all...I remeber once that Jordan had his jersey stolen before a game and he wore some sort of replica that a guy was wearing in the stands for that 1 game before another could get delivered from Chicago to the next town...maybe that's what happened here?...doubtful but there is that 1 in 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000.00 chance....I like to play the odds so I wouldn't touch it

[RobSteinmetz]

Although most of the hobby is aware of the history associated with the company mentioned in the previous post, it is important that we don't make specific claims without some evidence to back those claims up. Do we know for certain that this company was implicated specifically for selling NBA pro-cuts as game worn? If you are going to name names in this forum, please provide evidence that the company you mentioned sold fraudulent Jordan and Pippen jerseys. Also, please present evidence that they sold you a doctored Larry Bird jersey.

Thanks in advance for your cooperation.

Rob