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View Full Version : What's it worth? Frank Thomas rookie cap



stasman
04-09-2014, 06:55 PM
Now that I had my Frank Thomas 1990 rookie game worn hat authenticated by 2 seperate persons and that Frank also confirmed it was his Rookie worn hat, what do the members think it's value could be for insurance purposes?

I have never seen a game worn rookie hat of a Hall of Famer so I have no idea on its value. Thanks

spartanservitto
04-09-2014, 07:02 PM
600-800, my guess

stasman
04-09-2014, 07:07 PM
600-800, my guess

Wow.. I would think a rookie HOF hat would be worth more. Interesting

spartanservitto
04-09-2014, 08:10 PM
How much is a rookie bat worth probably 900-1100, and hats are generally worth less unless there is some in game significance, given it's a rookie hat, definitely a premium.

A regular frank bat is between 350-500- therefore a regular hat is probably 250-350 just because they are little rarer, that's a 100 percent premium on a documented rookie hat.

Roady
04-09-2014, 08:27 PM
I would tend to agree with spartanservitto. Look at what his rookie bats go for and take a little off. The hat may be more rare but you have less collectors for it.
For me, I like the rarest item I can find no matter the value. So I would buy the hat before a bat. But most collectors would rather have a bat I would assume based on watching collectors interest over the years.

I was actually figuring around $500 for it so $600-$800 is higher than I would value it. It is ultimately worth what someone is willing to pay.
My value is biased because I could not see paying more than $500 for it. But someone else may value it at much more.

PAC
04-09-2014, 08:42 PM
$300-$400 max

If it was a jersey...yeah, big money. Bat? That would be awesome too.

But there just aren't that many hat collectors out there. Hats are in the same category as cleats and pants (and probably somewhere between those 2 in price). Hats don't seem as personal, aren't as visually appealing, don't display well, don't have the "cool" factor, etc. that jerseys and bats do.

I know you want us to tell you that it's worth $10,000...but it's not. If you love it, then that's all that matters.

Roady
04-09-2014, 09:02 PM
PAC,
The only thing I disagree with is that hats, to me at least, are much easier to display than jerseys and I think they display very well.

Nnunnari
04-09-2014, 09:38 PM
$300-$400 max

If it was a jersey...yeah, big money. Bat? That would be awesome too.

But there just aren't that many hat collectors out there. Hats are in the same category as cleats and pants (and probably somewhere between those 2 in price). Hats don't seem as personal, aren't as visually appealing, don't display well, don't have the "cool" factor, etc. that jerseys and bats do.

I know you want us to tell you that it's worth $10,000...but it's not. If you love it, then that's all that matters.

Very well said and I agree.

spartanservitto
04-09-2014, 10:31 PM
I guess I premiumed based on the big hurt authenticating- but I agree with every follow up , my guess was a little high.

Phil316
04-10-2014, 12:11 AM
Who do you compare Frank Thomas with to come up with a price?

If you look at his stats he was a beast. He accomplished a lot in his career. He did not however break any major records like a Cal Ripken or even Barry Bonds.

He supposedly never used steroids in an era that it with prevalent in and put up huge numbers.

Who knows. Personally if I was gonna value the hat I would put a 750 to 800 price tag on it. It has a great story behind it, it's authenticated by PSA/DNA, authenticated by Frank himself, rookie hat and is signed 2 times.

In the end it is worth what someone will pay for it. Nothing more nothing less.

It is a great piece and hopefully you will never have to sell it.

stasman
04-10-2014, 05:27 AM
Thanks everyone....good info

nycpropain
04-10-2014, 05:45 AM
Did PSA authenticate it?

stasman
04-10-2014, 07:22 AM
It came from Ball Park Heroes (Coa)...I then had authenticator Dave Miedema authenticate it... Then I personally showed it to Frank Thomas who authenticated it. No need for PSA. :))

Phil316
04-10-2014, 09:11 AM
I remember seeing a PSA/DNA sticker did they not authenticate the new auto?

stasman
04-10-2014, 10:23 AM
Yes.. Sorry. PSA did authenticate the new auto because they were on scene when I showed it to Frank.. He confirmed the old auto as being his signature from his rookie time.. He said that was when he wanted to sign with all the letters in his name. I figured that was better than a PSA on the old one. I actually video taped him saying that.

stasman
04-10-2014, 10:28 AM
Photo of both signatures

Phil316
04-10-2014, 10:38 AM
You got video as well? That is awesome.

stasman
04-10-2014, 10:47 AM
Yep. He was very cool when he looked at his hat and told me to contact the HOF to see if they would add it to his display. I'm still waiting to hear back from them.

stasman
04-10-2014, 11:07 AM
Frank has always been my favorite player so when I was able to buy this and with him going into the Hall in July makes this hat by far my favorite piece.

ironmanfan
04-10-2014, 11:17 AM
I certainly realize it's not my hat, but I would have spent the PSA/DNA money on authenticating the rookie era/vintage signature and not have it signed a second time.

Neat item nonetheless.

stasman
04-10-2014, 11:33 AM
I was thinking about that. But when Frank had the hat he said I'll sign it again so you can have an old and new and you can see the difference. So I just let him do it. He was charging 125 plus 30 for inscription and he just did that for free. It is his hat after all. :)

emann
04-10-2014, 12:31 PM
Who knows. Personally if I was gonna value the hat I would put a 750 to 800 price tag on it. It has a great story behind it, it's authenticated by PSA/DNA, authenticated by Frank himself, rookie hat and is signed 2 times.

+1

I think this is a great piece and I think $500 might even be a little low... I know hat collectors are in the minority, but I think if you put it up at that somewhere, it'd sell quickly. I'd buy this hat over a random Thomas GU bat any day of the week...

twarman17
04-10-2014, 01:49 PM
+1

I think this is a great piece and I think $500 might even be a little low... I know hat collectors are in the minority, but I think if you put it up at that somewhere, it'd sell quickly. I'd buy this hat over a random Thomas GU bat any day of the week...

Agree, I think it's worth around $700 and I like the dual sig.

MikeKam
04-10-2014, 01:55 PM
Any idea what year this is from? Might help you gauge value:

http://www.lelands.com/auction/AuctionDetail/35425/January-2007-Lelands-Gaynor/Internet-Only/Game-Used-Baseball/Lot92~Frank-Thomas-White-Sox-Game-Used-Baseball-Cap

Phil316
04-10-2014, 02:25 PM
Any idea what year this is from? Might help you gauge value:

http://www.lelands.com/auction/AuctionDetail/35425/January-2007-Lelands-Gaynor/Internet-Only/Game-Used-Baseball/Lot92~Frank-Thomas-White-Sox-Game-Used-Baseball-Cap

Never heard of the maker Sports Specialties before. That might reflect the price of that supposed used cap.

ironmanfan
04-10-2014, 03:58 PM
Never heard of the maker Sports Specialties before. That might reflect the price of that supposed used cap.

they have provided professional teams with hats for use in games in the past.

Phil316
04-10-2014, 04:21 PM
they have provided professional teams with hats for use in games in the past.

I do not collect hats myself. I wonder what years they provided different MLB teams with hats.

Phil316
04-10-2014, 06:14 PM
I do not collect hats myself. I wonder what years they provided different MLB teams with hats.

Got the info I need from the search button. Thanks

gingi79
04-10-2014, 09:14 PM
Just an FYI, insured value (i.e. replacement cost) and resale value are two different things in the collectible world. With car insurance, your car is one of hundreds of thousands if not millions of examples of (theoretically) the same item and therefore is insured for what it would cost the Insurance company to buy you a new one with almost the same year/mileage/use/options etc. If your repairs exceed that number (or approach it), it is considered a total loss and they pay you that price. If it is much less, they pay to fix it, with second hand/used parts.(normally, but I digress)

This hat is, as far as I can tell, the sole example of a rookie season (model year) worn hat (rare in itself) dual signed by Frank with documentation (excessive post-base model alternation with respective insurance detailing such) and exactly zero known exemplars to match those characteristics. Therefore if it were destroyed lost in a fire, how much would it cost to find this exact item for sale again?

salukidave
04-10-2014, 09:37 PM
As a White Sox collector, if I owned the hat, I wouldn't even think about parting with it for less than $1,000, and I probably wouldn't sell it for twice that. As was just alluded to, how would you even go about replacing it? The significance of this hat is not about just hat collectors. It's an amazing piece to Frank Thomas collectors, White Sox collectors, 500 HR Club collectors and Hall of Fame collectors. It's a part of baseball history and certainly a museum-worthy item.

For reference, I sold a special White Sox hat to a player collector for $2,000. I had no intention of selling the hat, but the offer kept being raised until I finally felt like I had to sell it. That's how badly the collector wanted the hat and, being a collector, I'm sure he remains thrilled with the deal. (I apologize for not revealing more details about the hat, but I don't want to for a couple good reasons, including respecting the collector's privacy.) My point is that a true rarity with significance is, I believe, worth more than simply double the price of a normal specimen.

stasman
04-11-2014, 05:54 AM
This particular hat was used in the final home series in 1990. During that year the Sox wore red, white and blue uniforms. They introduced their new uniforms ( the current black and whites) to the fans before the 1991 season so the fans could check them out. So this is Franks first Black white sox cap. I being a huge Frank fan and life long White Sox fan I really love this hat. I don't think I would ever sell it but, I could understand if a collector would make an offer like that how it would be difficult not to sell.

spartanservitto
04-11-2014, 06:02 AM
Just a comment - I wasn't trying to downplay the hat - I think it's fantastic , that was just my opinion and how I formulated it.

-Tony

stasman
04-11-2014, 07:04 AM
No problem Tony... I like reading all the info and opinions. :). Thanks. go Sox.

Roady
04-11-2014, 10:51 AM
And you know I have been one of your biggest supporters since this whole thing began so my value of the hat is just that, mine. I am a bit on the cheap side so if I say I would give $500 for something others will most likely give more. :D

stasman
04-11-2014, 12:25 PM
And you know I have been one of your biggest supporters since this whole thing began so my value of the hat is just that, mine. I am a bit on the cheap side so if I say I would give $500 for something others will most likely give more. :D

You're the best Roady!!!!

Chess2899
04-11-2014, 01:55 PM
Not to rain on your parade Bro but a good rule of thumb is whatever you paid from Ball Park Heroes is well over market value in my experience from buying from them.

Correct me if I'm wrong here but from what I have gathered from the never ending Thomas hat saga is that the only thing that was ever proven was that the original autograph was authentic.

Even though there is a good chance the hat was worn by Frank you don't have conclusive proof which is what you would need to get any type of high end or even real value from the hat from any intelligent Sox's or Thomas collector. No one but a fool is spending big bucks on something that can't be proven and I don't know of many big time Sox's collectors who would.

You need a photo match not a style match to prove your point here that LOA doesn't mean much too me its not proof and I would like to know whats its based on certainly not proof. Do you really think that Big Frank can remember a hat that HE MIGHT HAVE worn once 24 years ago???? Seriously?

I think its been shown on here many times that players are the worst at authenticating their items that being said even if it is true all you have is a nice story it still can't be proven to this point.

It doesn't matter what you think you know it comes down to it only really matters what you can prove. I would spend more time trying to prove what the hat is thru a photo match or trying to match the #35 written on the hat and less time worrying what the hat might be worth.

My hope is that you are able to find the proof to prove conclusively that Thomas did in fact wear the hat his rookie season cause then you might actually have something here.

This hobby is a treasure hunt & I would suggest that you start hunting and doing your own leg work as your case to this point is weak/inconclusive at best IMO on proving that Thomas wore the hat.

I think the video, plus Frank's GU 1990 documentation and signature is good enough for proof. Photo matches were very difficult to obtain in 1990.

stasman
04-11-2014, 03:14 PM
Your in the minority Palehose for life. This hat has 3 loa's/coa's including a physical examination by a expert, matching via tagging from the manufactures own history, provenance from a clubhouse attendant who recovered it, PSA authentication on the new autograph and Frank himself on video saying the original auto is his and this hat was his in 1990. This hat impressed him enough to say to me " call the hall and see if it can be out in my display"
Come on Palehose...how much more do you need. I have down the legwork. What item do you have with this much provenance???

Roady
04-11-2014, 03:30 PM
Your in the minority Palehose for life. This hat has 3 loa's/coa's including a physical examination by a expert, matching via tagging from the manufactures own history, provenance from a clubhouse attendant who recovered it, PSA authentication on the new autograph and Frank himself on video saying the original auto is his and this hat was his in 1990. This hat impressed him enough to say to me " call the hall and see if it can be out in my display"
Come on Palehose...how much more do you need. I have down the legwork. What item do you have with this much provenance???
Look at you! Glad to see you standing up for yourself a little stronger. :)

stasman
04-11-2014, 03:46 PM
I'm usually pretty calm, but don't be ignorant. If PaleHose for life would have read the entire original post.. He would have seen all the time and " legwork" I did. If he doesn't believe it to be real and authentic that's fine.. Just don't be insulting.

Roady
04-11-2014, 03:58 PM
I'm usually pretty calm, but don't be ignorant. If PaleHose for life would have read the entire original post.. He would have seen all the time and " legwork" I did. If he doesn't believe it to be real and authentic that's fine.. Just don't be insulting.

I am sure he read it all.

otismalibu
04-11-2014, 04:53 PM
If he doesn't believe it to be real and authentic that's fine.. Just don't be insulting.

There was nothing insulting about the PaleHose post, IMO. Just an honest assessment.

And FWIW, my Frank Thomas Rookie Cap catalog arrived today!

johnsontravis@ymail.com
04-11-2014, 06:12 PM
I don't see why what he has is not enough. How many items are auctioned with the word of some guy who worked in the clubhouse? No one has a problem with that.

karamaxjoe
04-11-2014, 06:21 PM
There was nothing insulting about the PaleHose post, IMO. Just an honest assessment.

And FWIW, my Frank Thomas Rookie Cap catalog arrived today!

What....when did this happen?.........I thought I was the only one with the Frank Thomas Rookie Cap catalog!:eek:

Me thinks the great cap caper has run its course.

yanks12025
04-11-2014, 07:49 PM
What....when did this happen?.........I thought I was the only one with the Frank Thomas Rookie Cap catalog!:eek:

Me thinks the great cap caper has run its course.

I think we need another 5 threads and 400+ posts about this hat till we get to the end.

karamaxjoe
04-11-2014, 09:19 PM
I'm ignorant? I spent thousands with the White Sox since 1999 both online and thru their garage sales and let me tell you they mix everything together issued & used & throw it all out there as game used its buyer beware like everything else in this hobby


Exactly why I stopped going to the garage sales years ago and only deal with vintage now. The Sox are out to make a buck for their charities and I appreciate that. Unfortunately provenance is something they care little about.

stasman
04-11-2014, 09:53 PM
I'm with you guys...this post and discussion has ran its course. Although Palehose you do bring up legit concerns over proof... You can't always prove things with a photo match.. Circumstantial evidence can convict too. If I wake up in the morning and there is snow on the ground..but I didn't see it snowing.. I can honestly say it snowed last night without seeing a flake. Circumstantial and physical evidence combined make for very strong proof.
Thanks to all members who were involved in my thread...I learned a lot and I will continue collecting for my enjoyment. Go Sox

BU54CB
04-12-2014, 07:36 PM
I'll take a solid photo match over provenance any day of the week. Proof requires evidence to establish a fact what you have here are opinions. Pay me $20 and I can write you an opinion too what does that prove?

I don't deal in uncertainty any longer my items are photo matched 100% when it comes to GU & my collection which I have posted on here speaks for itself research it its not hard to do.

I've switched 90% out of baseball to football, only purchase items that can be PROVEN 100% cause I don't own a toy collection I hunt grails bud.

I'm ignorant? I spent thousands with the White Sox since 1999 both online and thru their garage sales and let me tell you they mix everything together issued & used & throw it all out there as game used its buyer beware like everything else in this hobby & If I had a dollar for every story that contained a clubhouse guy and/or impeccable source I would be a millionaire & quite frankly after all these years those types of stories turn my stomach. IDC if you can't find pictures or auction houses @ times only provide what you are trying to pass of as proof it doesn't make it rite and/or a fact.

The tagging & sizing are a good start along with the autograph but that still doesn't prove Thomas wore it. Who is to say he didn't just autograph the hat do you really think that doesn't happen? It doesn't matter what you have Frank on tape saying as there is no way in hell that Frank remembers a hat from 24 years ago when he has worn hundreds of hats and if it was such a special hat for him to remember in would be in his trophy room.

Sorry if this doesn't fit you agenda or you don't want/can't understand the reality of this hobby when it comes to selling that people want proof not opinions when they part with hundreds &/or thousands of dollars & if you can't supply that proof then you are selling on the low end of the spectrum or to a fool who doesn't know better.

I guess it doesn't matter anyways as this whole ordeal has the feel of a played out infomercial & a precursor to a future sale.

Typical

R. C. Walker
04-13-2014, 11:46 AM
BUMP TTT!

Sorry. . . . . Couldn't resist.

r_to_the_2nd@yahoo.com
04-14-2014, 07:56 PM
Ironmanfan - I saw that you posted a few years back that you had a Chris Sabo GU Batting helmet that you picked up - I would love to see it if you still have it. I have never seen a Sabo GU helmet before. Email me at r_to_the_2nd@yahoo.com - thanks!

net0@thehalf
04-15-2014, 04:55 PM
This particular hat was used in the final home series in 1990. During that year the Sox wore red, white and blue uniforms. They introduced their new uniforms ( the current black and whites) to the fans before the 1991 season so the fans could check them out. So this is Franks first Black white sox cap. I being a huge Frank fan and life long White Sox fan I really love this hat. I don't think I would ever sell it but, I could understand if a collector would make an offer like that how it would be difficult not to sell.

His first black white sox cap? really? how do you know this? do you know how many hats he probably went thru in his career??? how in the world could he remember a hat he wore? let alone a jersey,pants, gloves etc..... fielding glove yes! all that stuff especially a hat is about as rare as the socks and stirrups he wore!!! He was impressed with a hat? the hall of fame wouldn't want something that can't be proven one way or the other. Again not trying to discount your item, but photomatching a hat is damn near impossible, and an loa is damn near worthless unless frank signed a piece of paper saying its his and even then id still pause on buying it since there is no proof and nobody can verify they really wore a hat 24yrs ago! he went thru countless hats bats etc. whose to say it wasn't issued and some turd has been running around In it sweating his b-sac off in it and passing it off as gu? trust me stranger things have happened, as there are lots of DR'$ out thrrr!!! anyone can write 35 on the inside of a hat. That and $1 will get you a pair of sweaty. socks, and maybe I can sell those too?

net0@thehalf
04-15-2014, 05:01 PM
A hats a hat its not like shoeless joes shoes. yes he's a hof but not babe ruth. id say 2-300 if.it can be proven. maybe 500 tops but its more of a novelty piece, or super rare item. IMO. Too bad players don't have there name and or number stitched on the side.... customization adds lots of wow factor!!!

stasman
04-15-2014, 05:40 PM
A hats a hat its not like shoeless joes shoes. yes he's a hof but not babe ruth. id say 2-300 if.it can be proven. maybe 500 tops but its more of a novelty piece, or super rare item. IMO. Too bad players don't have there name and or number stitched on the side.... customization adds lots of wow factor!!!

The White Sox introduced their black caps during their last homestead of 1990. There were only 6 games.. I know this based on the tagging in the hat and that the clubhouse attendant obtained it at the end if the 1990 season.

stasman
04-15-2014, 05:42 PM
The White Sox introduced their black caps during their last homestead of 1990. There were only 6 games.. I know this based on the tagging in the hat and that the clubhouse attendant obtained it at the end if the 1990 season.

The hat manufacturer changed their tagging in 1991

stasman
04-15-2014, 05:51 PM
I understand doubt... But I have done everything I can to try to confirm the authenticity. I feel it's authentic... If a member doesn't think it's authentic then you have your opinion too. Go Sox

danesei@yahoo.com
04-15-2014, 05:53 PM
The hat manufacturer changed their tagging in 1991

Could you show images of the tagging and the whole cap? It'd be interesting to see. As for value, I don't know what to say. I think if it were photo-matched (and, yes, I realize that'd be difficult, but since you know the exact dates it could have been used, not impossible) that would be one thing, but with what you have currently for documentation, your market would be limited.

The hat might be "worth" a couple grand, but it would likely only get $500 or less in an auction based environment. The $500 means the amount you'd get, not necessarily the hammer price of the house.

stasman
04-15-2014, 05:58 PM
Could you show images of the tagging and the whole cap? It'd be interesting to see. As for value, I don't know what to say. I think if it were photo-matched (and, yes, I realize that'd be difficult, but since you know the exact dates it could have been used, not impossible) that would be one thing, but with what you have currently for documentation, your market would be limited.

The hat might be "worth" a couple grand, but it would likely only get $500 or less in an auction based environment. The $500 means the amount you'd get, not necessarily the hammer price of the house.

I hope this one shows the tags. A member in the forum posted the history of this company's tagging and this cap was used 1989-1990 then they changed their tagging

stasman
04-15-2014, 06:05 PM
I hope this one shows the tags. A member in the forum posted the history of this company's tagging and this cap was used 1989-1990 then they changed their tagging

Here's another photo

Roady
04-15-2014, 06:10 PM
If this hat was attached to one of the auction houses many on here like to overpay items at and had a letter from someone then they would be all over it.

stasman
04-15-2014, 06:21 PM
If this hat was attached to one of the auction houses many on here like to overpay items at and had a letter from someone then they would be all over it.

Being I have the Coa and LOA from the uniform expert, the PSA on the auto and Frank confirming the old auto on video..I think it might do very well if we put it in an auction too.

Roady
04-15-2014, 06:25 PM
Being I have the Coa and LOA from the uniform expert, the PSA on the auto and Frank confirming the old auto on video..I think it might do very well if we put it in an auction too.

It would and it amazes me what some on here pay for items with a single letter from a single man.
Yet they demand more proof from you.

stasman
04-15-2014, 06:43 PM
It would and it amazes me what some on here pay for items with a single letter from a single man.
Yet they demand more proof from you.

Yep. This hang up on photo matching is interesting. I understand some items can be photo matched but there are so many that can't be. But with proper provenance and data, many items can be proven valid.

stasman
04-15-2014, 06:45 PM
Yep. This hang up on photo matching is interesting. I understand some items can be photo matched but there are so many that can't be. But with proper provenance and data, many items can be proven valid.

Even photo matching isn't 100%. If someone took the time, they could produce a fake from a photo too, by adding dirt stains and wear. Even if you received it directly from the player, it's still your word...

danesei@yahoo.com
04-15-2014, 06:49 PM
I hope this one shows the tags. A member in the forum posted the history of this company's tagging and this cap was used 1989-1990 then they changed their tagging

I'm pretty sure the tagging period is generally accepted as 1989-1993, but the tags are right for that era. Cap looks good to me. I'd probably offer $350 or so. Before anyone comments that I'd pay more for a Thomas rookie bat, hats aren't bats. I couldn't pull the trigger on an early 80s GU hat from a HOFer... and that was $100.

Roady
04-15-2014, 07:03 PM
Yep. This hang up on photo matching is interesting. I understand some items can be photo matched but there are so many that can't be. But with proper provenance and data, many items can be proven valid.

After everything some on here put have you through ,including insults, they will buy some overpriced item with nothing more than a piece of paper from someone saying it is authentic.

Roady
04-15-2014, 07:06 PM
After everything some on here put have you through ,including insults, they will buy some overpriced item with nothing more than a piece of paper from someone saying it is authentic.

........some on here have put you through.........

stasman
04-15-2014, 07:08 PM
........some on here have put you through.........

I agree...

net0@thehalf
04-15-2014, 07:27 PM
LOL... you wanted opinions so your getting them. as for the comment on simulating use with dirt and stains, I challenge anyone to replicate a hitmark to the exact pattern and spot on a jersey as well as grass or blood stains! id like to see it. Id like to add after seeing pics up close of this hat I can honestly say that the extreme use this piece displays for having only been worn for one series as you stated does seem to be inconsistent from a 3 game stretch playing only first base and batting 4 times a game. That hat looks like its seen tons of action and stretched out. Doesn't add up to me but that's just my opinion. they players wear a diff cap in BP correct?

stasman
04-15-2014, 07:44 PM
LOL... you wanted opinions so your getting them. as for the comment on simulating use with dirt and stains, I challenge anyone to replicate a hitmark to the exact pattern and spot on a jersey as well as grass or blood stains! id like to see it. Id like to add after seeing pics up close of this hat I can honestly say that the extreme use this piece displays for having only been worn for one series as you stated does seem to be inconsistent from a 3 game stretch playing only first base and batting 4 times a game. That hat looks like its seen tons of action and stretched out. Doesn't add up to me but that's just my opinion. they players wear a diff cap in BP correct?

Your concerns are valid but so are my facts. We can agree to disagree with respect. It's a great item with provenance, Coa, Loa and handled by the player that wore it.. Because I haven't found an exact photo match does not in my mind make this hat not authentic. The hat was worn in the summer and per the clubhouse attendant, the hat was left on the floor of the dugout after the last game. I like the story and the proof.

Dach0sen0ne
04-15-2014, 07:47 PM
Dun, dun....

Roady
04-15-2014, 07:51 PM
Who are You talking about & do You have any clue as to what you are saying?

If you are referring to me I don't put my faith in anyone or thing. I do my own leg work to prove an item good and that requires a photo match for me on anything of real value.

Then why are you so upset?

Roady
04-15-2014, 07:52 PM
..... which is why there are so many haters in this business.



And speaking of haters.......

BU54CB
04-15-2014, 07:55 PM
LOL... you wanted opinions so your getting them. as for the comment on simulating use with dirt and stains, I challenge anyone to replicate a hitmark to the exact pattern and spot on a jersey as well as grass or blood stains! id like to see it. Id like to add after seeing pics up close of this hat I can honestly say that the extreme use this piece displays for having only been worn for one series as you stated does seem to be inconsistent from a 3 game stretch playing only first base and batting 4 times a game. That hat looks like its seen tons of action and stretched out. Doesn't add up to me but that's just my opinion. they players wear a diff cap in BP correct?

So you're an expert in wear and tear on game used items? You know how much a player sweats during a game? You know how much action that player saw during the game? I've seen some really worn and dirty baseball uniforms, hats, and equipment from just one games use.

Frank also has a big noggin, it wouldn't take long at all to stretch out a hat, did you take that into consideration? Probably not, but you're stuck on looking for the negatives and attacking someone for no reason.

BU54CB
04-15-2014, 07:57 PM
And speaking of haters.......

+1

Roady
04-15-2014, 07:59 PM
stasman,
Great hat! Great story! Great restraint on your part to keep your cool.
Don't let some get to you ever. Some are jealous, some are mean, and some are just pure snobs. As long as you stay who you are, you win.

I am not going to stir this pot anymore and give those who only want to degrade others and their items any more ammo. I hate bullies and bullies need to be put in their place. But that will happen one day with or without my input.

My list of those I will never do business with grows.

net0@thehalf
04-15-2014, 08:13 PM
Road dog what do you have in your collection? any items for sale? I'm looking for locker name plates if u have any. Buc lmfao, you aren't superman defender of the universe. you still haven't shown anything on your rack lately??? and yes I did consider big Frank's massive cranium but still 3 games of use isn't that extreme! I sweat a lot too and my hat wouldn't be that F'd up!!!! Its good to want something to be what you hope it is, since nobody wants to get screwed... I truly hope it is the real mccoy! I just think I good story is all it is.

stasman
04-15-2014, 08:24 PM
Road dog what do you have in your collection? any items for sale? I'm looking for locker name plates if u have any. Buc lmfao, you aren't superman defender of the universe. you still haven't shown anything on your rack lately??? and yes I did consider big Frank's massive cranium but still 3 games of use isn't that extreme! I sweat a lot too and my hat wouldn't be that F'd up!!!! Its good to want something to be what you hope it is, since nobody wants to get screwed... I truly hope it is the real mccoy! I just think I good story is all it is.

Didn't get screwed. It's the real deal.

net0@thehalf
04-15-2014, 08:25 PM
So you're an expert in wear and tear on game used items? You know how much a player sweats during a game? You know how much action that player saw during the game? I've seen some really worn and dirty baseball uniforms, hats, and equipment from just one games use.

Frank also has a big noggin, it wouldn't take long at all to stretch out a hat, did you take that into consideration? Probably not, but you're stuck on looking for the negatives and attacking someone for no reason.

You ever hear of a fitted hat???? 7 1/8 isn't that big considering I wear 7 5/8. isn't the point of a fitted hat, so that it fits properly and so that it doesn't get stretched out!!!??? oh and brand new hats just don't get stretched out from 3 games big boy it takes time and washings for that, being a hat wearer I would know. so I stand by my statement. anyone care to chime in? id expect more from a varsity letterman!!! lmao...

BU54CB
04-15-2014, 08:37 PM
Road dog what do you have in your collection? any items for sale? I'm looking for locker name plates if u have any. Buc lmfao, you aren't superman defender of the universe. you still haven't shown anything on your rack lately??? and yes I did consider big Frank's massive cranium but still 3 games of use isn't that extreme! I sweat a lot too and my hat wouldn't be that F'd up!!!! Its good to want something to be what you hope it is, since nobody wants to get screwed... I truly hope it is the real mccoy! I just think I good story is all it is.

Where's the all the great stuff from you're rack?? I don't see you posting anything lately, is that a prerequisite to post on this site now? I'm shocked you only posted 2 jerseys from your "rack" because I'm waiting to see the rest of your grail collection.

I'm not some superman defender, I'm just sick of you and your BS. You're nothing but a pretender with a keyboard and nothing better to do than make yourself feel good about yourself by tearing people and their collections down.

BU54CB
04-15-2014, 08:40 PM
You ever hear of a fitted hat???? 7 1/8 isn't that big considering I wear 7 5/8. isn't the point of a fitted hat, so that it fits properly and so that it doesn't get stretched out!!!??? oh and brand new hats just don't get stretched out from 3 games big boy it takes time and washings for that, being a hat wearer I would know. so I stand by my statement. anyone care to chime in? id expect more from a varsity letterman!!! lmao...

I have heard of a fitted hat, thanks for checking. I can tell you I am certainly overjoyed that a hat expert such as yourself has taken the time to school me on hat wearing and sizing, thank you so much.

Big Boy, huh?

Sorry statsman, thread got off track, but that usually happens when palehose and net0 get involved in a thread, just take a look at what they did to the Bears GU thread, a real shame.

stasman
04-15-2014, 08:47 PM
My initial thread was asking for advise on a hat i was excited to own. It has been proven to be authentic and that's where I stand. Palehose and net0 can say what they want... But I have Frank Thomas's game worn Rookie 1990 hat. If you see it in a upcoming auction feel free not to bid Palehose and Net0. No hard feelings. Go Sox

BU54CB
04-15-2014, 08:48 PM
You ever hear of a fitted hat???? 7 1/8 isn't that big considering I wear 7 5/8. isn't the point of a fitted hat, so that it fits properly and so that it doesn't get stretched out!!!??? oh and brand new hats just don't get stretched out from 3 games big boy it takes time and washings for that, being a hat wearer I would know. so I stand by my statement. anyone care to chime in? id expect more from a varsity letterman!!! lmao...

By the way, how do you know Frank didn't like his hat tight, some people wear a larger or smaller hat due to preference.

stasman
04-15-2014, 08:52 PM
You ever hear of a fitted hat???? 7 1/8 isn't that big considering I wear 7 5/8. isn't the point of a fitted hat, so that it fits properly and so that it doesn't get stretched out!!!??? oh and brand new hats just don't get stretched out from 3 games big boy it takes time and washings for that, being a hat wearer I would know. so I stand by my statement. anyone care to chime in? id expect more from a varsity letterman!!! lmao...

Frank looked at the tagging and said it was his hat. I'm sure he knows what size he wore.

net0@thehalf
04-15-2014, 08:58 PM
yeah ok, after Matt and Rick walked away the only other person contributing any top shelf stuff was pale. If it wasn't for him the thread would of been dead a long time ago! there was nothing of value being posted on there forever. go google frank thomas game worn hats, I just found atleast 4 diff thomas hats from a thread on a diff forum, the water mark on his pics says big hurt museum or something... lets just assume those hats were worn for more than three games, the use on them looks no were near as bad they actuyall look normal not beat to hell or yellow stains and stretched out. the show moderate use fof the amoint of.time they were used. Not a month of use in 3 games. you will see.

sox83cubs84
04-15-2014, 09:02 PM
I am with those that feel that this thread should be locked. Most of the posts now are nothing more than several people nitpicking about various details of the cap. Were it to be a potential purchase, that's one thing, but the owner has researched it, gotten advice and opinion from people he trusts, and is quite happy with his item. That being the case, what is the point of keeping this open with so many posts being little more than negative hair-splitting?

Dave Miedema

stasman
04-15-2014, 09:03 PM
yeah ok, after Matt and Rick walked away the only other person contributing any top shelf stuff was pale. If it wasn't for him the thread would of been dead a long time ago! there was nothing of value being posted on there forever. go google frank thomas game worn hats, I just found atleast 4 diff thomas hats from a thread on a diff forum, the water mark on his pics says big hurt museum or something... lets just assume those hats were worn for more than three games, the use on them looks no were near as bad they actuyall look normal not beat to hell or yellow stains and stretched out. the show moderate use fof the amoint of.time they were used. Not a month of use in 3 games. you will see.

Are they 24 year old hats???

stasman
04-15-2014, 09:04 PM
I am with those that feel that this thread should be locked. Most of the posts now are nothing more than several people nitpicking about various details of the cap. Were it to be a potential purchase, that's one thing, but the owner has researched it, gotten advice and opinion from people he trusts, and is quite happy with his item. That being the case, what is the point of keeping this open with so many posts being little more than negative hair-splitting?

Dave Miedema

I agree Dave. And it's my thread.

net0@thehalf
04-15-2014, 09:13 PM
I'm not denying the size is correct, but my suspicion was correct all along, this thread was started to gauge the value of your item and not so much your love of it.... you wanted to gry an idea as to what it will go for in auction... which is fine, but don't sit here and act like that's not the case. you even said I don't think I could ever sell this , and not a few days later your talking about how we will see it in auction soon??? Dude seriously lmao!!!! you can try to pump your item up, but my belief is that you know the story is too good to be true and you keep repeating the same thing over and over how you know its legit and frank said so and you.have 3 letters and this and that. maybe you know its bad and you come on here to spark interest to dump it... everyone has an agenda. your wishy washy. I beloved Frank fan wouldn't be sooo gaga over a hat say they couldn't sell it unless the price was rite, then say they are auctioning it or planning too, and have this great bsckground story about it, and then ask people what they would pay to see if its worth it to sell it. I will bet u that hat would fetch 600 at best with premium id guarantee that! I'm sure you figured u mine as well dump it now while the hof is still fresh I'm peoples minds and you can get a couple bucks for it.... didn't u just pick this hat up recently? I'm all about flipping but don't act like you love it when ur ready to sell it so fast.

stasman
04-15-2014, 09:14 PM
Are they 24 year old hats???

Wear a hat for a week while playing baseball in the summer, then out it in a bag for 24 years. It will look a little rough when you pull it out I'm sure.

stasman
04-15-2014, 09:17 PM
I'm not denying the size is correct, but my suspicion was correct all along, this thread was started to gauge the value of your item and not so much your love of it.... you wanted to gry an idea as to what it will go for in auction... which is fine, but don't sit here and act like that's not the case. you even said I don't think I could ever sell this , and not a few days later your talking about how we will see it in auction soon??? Dude seriously lmao!!!! you can try to pump your item up, but my belief is that you know the story is too good to be true and you keep repeating the same thing over and over how you know its legit and frank said so and you.have 3 letters and this and that. maybe you know its bad and you come on here to spark interest to dump it... everyone has an agenda. your wishy washy. I beloved Frank fan wouldn't be sooo gaga over a hat say they couldn't sell it unless the price was rite, then say they are auctioning it or planning too, and have this great bsckground story about it, and then ask people what they would pay to see if its worth it to sell it. I will bet u that hat would fetch 600 at best with premium id guarantee that! I'm sure you figured u mine as well dump it now while the hof is still fresh I'm peoples minds and you can get a couple bucks for it.... didn't u just pick this hat up recently? I'm all about flipping but don't act like you love it when ur ready to sell it so fast.

My words were sarcastic...it's not for sale

Hoosier39
04-15-2014, 09:31 PM
I loved Big Hurt. Still do....

But sweet baby J, I'm ok if I don't see another thread about him for another year!

Great hat, great auto's, cool story. Some believe its fine, others don't. We've figured that out with the 3 threads that were made and the 75,000 views. Let's move on to something different.......please....

net0@thehalf
04-15-2014, 09:32 PM
Now that I had my Frank Thomas 1990 rookie game worn hat authenticated by 2 seperate persons and that Frank also confirmed it was his Rookie worn hat, what do the members think it's value could be for insurance purposes?

I have never seen a game worn rookie hat of a Hall of Famer so I have no idea on its value. Thanks

For Insurance Purposes???? Why are you concerned about insurance if you plan to sell at auction? That sounds like a long term investment question to me, but seems like the tide has turned. nice cover story though. I like the first response were the member gives a fair estimate and your response is wow that seems low for a hof..... for insurance though?

stasman
04-15-2014, 09:34 PM
I loved Big Hurt. Still do....

But sweet baby J, I'm ok if I don't see another thread about him for another year!

Great hat, great auto's, cool story. Some believe its fine, others don't. We've figured that out with the 3 threads that were made and the 75,000 views. Let's move on to something different.......please....

I'm done too Terry, time to move on.

stasman
04-15-2014, 09:37 PM
For Insurance Purposes???? Why are you concerned about insurance if you plan to sell at auction? That sounds like a long term investment question to me, but seems like the tide has turned. nice cover story though. I like the first response were the member gives a fair estimate and your response is wow that seems low for a hof..... for insurance though?

It seems you only want confrontation. This was a simple thread with a great ending. The hat is authentic and in my collection. All my items are insured for the same reasons yours should be. Protection. I have discussed this simple hat in every way I can. Time to move on bring there is nothing new to learn. Thank you got your opinion.

danesei@yahoo.com
04-15-2014, 09:40 PM
For Insurance Purposes???? Why are you concerned about insurance if you plan to sell at auction? That sounds like a long term investment question to me, but seems like the tide has turned. nice cover story though. I like the first response were the member gives a fair estimate and your response is wow that seems low for a hof..... for insurance though?

I believe that for insurance claim purposes, the insurance company would look at comparable recent sales. Since the cap was purchased as a "circa 1990-91" cap two months ago for $245 on eBay from Ball Park Heroes, I would think insurance value would be $245.

I think that the Stigall's circa 1990-1991 dating on the cap is accurate. I think the issue will always be finding a way to prove that it was used during those six games (25-30 Sept) in 1990 that would establish it as being a rookie hat. Until that can be somehow established, the hat is a nice example of an early career Thomas hat. The eBay listing doesn't say the hat was from the White Sox, so it could have been from a number of teams that played against the Sox in 1991, I suppose.

Anyway, here's the eBay listing, while it's still up:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/221365420384

I only stumbled across it while trying to find other examples of 1990 white sox black (not the blue/red ones) caps on Google.

kudu
04-15-2014, 11:57 PM
Did you try ihaveplanet.com? There are several members there that have Sox games on dvd from 9/29 and 9/30. The thing is, is you have to trade for the games on dvd, you can't just buy the dvds from the members. I think there are other dvd trading sites, but can't think of the names right now.

net0@thehalf
04-16-2014, 06:11 AM
Is that a split stitch seam on the side of the hat? well that normally happens in a few games. It should be your ticket to an easy photomatch then! that's the best thing to come out out of this as well as the dvd for those games. I agree with pale, BPH sells nothing on the cheap ever! So for.them to sell this hat for 245 makes me wonder, if in fact they tjink ita the real deal especially a thomas item, when they sell lesser guys for more.

net0@thehalf
04-16-2014, 07:41 AM
You could get a dna expert to extract Frank's sweat from the band on the hat, then the next time you see him, you can ask and see if he's willing to let you swab his cheek for a dna match? or have him give you one of his sox? that would work. I'm pretty close to where his new brewery/bar is located, when it opens I will nab one of the bottles he drinks out of and send it to you.

ousooner_85
04-16-2014, 08:22 AM
I can't wait for the day when I open up gameuseduniverse and don't see a thread about a Frank Thomas Hat. Just sale the thing, put it up for auction, end the misery!