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costas
04-13-2014, 07:11 AM
What's the community's general view on game used items, particularly jerseys, authenticated as game used but the player doesn't play in the game. An example would be a relief pitcher who sit in the bullpen and isn't called to pitch.

Should these items still sell at the same value as a jersey where the player plays? Do collectors find value in them items or prefer to stay away from them? Input appreciated, thanks!

Roady
04-13-2014, 07:45 AM
In my mind, if a players doesn't play it is not game used.

I will not buy an item a player wore sitting in the dugout the whole game.

metsbats
04-13-2014, 08:16 AM
The way MLB authenticates jerseys as attributed to one game just because they picked it up after that one game is flawed. Most players wear jerseys over a few games or weeks or months and the jersey may have actually been worn in a game (except in cases of players known to wear customized jerseys during games like Pedro Martinez).

So the value goes down because this link was made for the sake of authentication in my opinion. However if the game was a special event (ie ASG, WS, no-hitter) I would consider paying a premium especially if the jersey had special tagging or patches.

coxfan
04-13-2014, 09:04 AM
The issue of a lack of accepted terminology comes up in various threads at times. My view is that a reliever who sits in the bullpen has "game-ready"equipment, and a ball that doesn't leave the umpire's bucket was "game-ready". Things like locker tags, dugout lineup cards, and practice-only balls are "team-used."

But others use different terms. Sellers typically use "game-used" for all of the above.

Lunytune2
04-13-2014, 11:28 AM
It is game worn .. just not game used ... some people collect for the player , some for significance . I have a Tony Sanchez wildcard game jersey that he did not play in ... but it was his and he did wear it during that game. And like others said , he probably wore it in another game before that.

mbenga28
04-13-2014, 01:46 PM
Are game worn and game used two different terms as Lunytune2 mentioned? That could create confusion when a team LOA says game used when it was just game worn by a player.

HawaiiSportsNut
04-13-2014, 02:40 PM
It would be so much easier if there was an industry standard for game memorabilia. But while a team or reputable sellers may follow the standards there will be many sellers that would write the description just to make the sale.

As a standard I personally would like to see something along these lines,

Game Used: Worn by players during game action.

Game Worn: Worn by players during warm up or while on the bench.

Game/Team Issued: Issued by the team for the intent of game action but never worn by the player at any point.

mbenga28
04-13-2014, 03:26 PM
It would be so much easier if there was an industry standard for game memorabilia. But while a team or reputable sellers may follow the standards there will be many sellers that would write the description just to make the sale.

As a standard I personally would like to see something along these lines,

Game Used: Worn by players during game action.

Game Worn: Worn by players during warm up or while on the bench.

Game/Team Issued: Issued by the team for the intent of game action but never worn by the player at any point.

How about when MLB Authenticated describes a jersey as game used while it was only game worn?

HawaiiSportsNut
04-13-2014, 05:18 PM
How about when MLB Authenticated describes a jersey as game used while it was only game worn?

That is why there has to be an industry standard. I have bought a jersey as game used according to the MLB Authentication when I know for a fact that the player did not see any game action. The standards has to start from the MLB, NHL or the NFL to make it all work out. Unless they take the lead it will be extremely hard for it to work.

Lunytune2
04-13-2014, 06:34 PM
That is why there has to be an industry standard. I have bought a jersey as game used according to the MLB Authentication when I know for a fact that the player did not see any game action. The standards has to start from the MLB, NHL or the NFL to make it all work out. Unless they take the lead it will be extremely hard for it to work.

This is why the buyer needs to do there homework before buying !

Dewey2007
04-13-2014, 07:30 PM
Although the terms in the hobby are interchangeable like others I consider a jersey "game used" when it was used in an actual game. If the guy sat on the bench then it is "game worn".

When I first joined the forum I suggested to the moderators at the time that they start a Sticky or Exceptionally Educational Thread of hobby related terms that collectors, especially new ones, could refer to. Never got a response but I think it would still be a good thing to try and do.

In addition (and next to impossible I'm sure) it would be nice to see the forum take the lead in trying to establish a standard glossary of terms used throughout the hobby like this 'game used vs game worn' one that comes up or at least terminology/definitions that are accepted here on the forum would be a good start. Maybe there could be a summit held at the National to discuss this issue since that seems to be the one time that most of the bigwigs and auction houses in the hobby are all in one place.

rufusandherschel
04-13-2014, 07:48 PM
In addition (and next to impossible I'm sure) it would be nice to see the forum take the lead in trying to establish a standard glossary of terms used throughout the hobby like this 'game used vs game worn' one that comes up or at least terminology/definitions that are accepted here on the forum would be a good start. Maybe there could be a summit held at the National to discuss this issue since that seems to be the one time that most of the bigwigs and auction houses in the hobby are all in one place.

Great idea/excellent start! Input, concurrence and agreement of the auction houses would seem to be essential. Possibly Chris and Forum moderators could get the 'ball rolling".

Rob L
04-13-2014, 07:49 PM
I collect Troy Percival items so he obviously was in the bullpen alot. I do have a "GU" uniform from a TBTC game. He was eligible to play but didn't get in. I have pictures of him wearing the uniform (made a great photomatch) and it is dirty. I would think, in terms of relief pitchers, that if they are eligible on the roster but don't get in, it is still game used IMHO.

icollectDCsports
04-13-2014, 07:58 PM
I think it's too late and too nuanced for most folks to distinguish between "game used" and "game worn," which have been applied interchangeably for a quite a while. To me, the word "game" shouldn't apply if the item was never used (in the case of equipment) or worn (in the case of uniform items) on the playing field during competition. A good example is a uniform item issued for use for in one game, such as a throwback jersey. If a starting pitcher didn't appear in the game, no "game" use or wear. Same for a position player who didn't get in the game. Perhaps "bench worn" or "bench used" would be more appropriate.

But what about a uniform item worn by a manager? Although he may in some games stay in the bench area for the entire game, I'd call it "game used" or "game worn" because it was worn by one actively participating in the game according to his role.

I do think all of this is worth discussing. However, I can't see MLB, for instance, changing their authentication categories based on these distinctions. Too much work.

rufusandherschel
04-13-2014, 08:45 PM
However, I can't see MLB, for instance, changing their authentication categories . . . " Good point! MLB's authentication categories/classification system is/are part of the problem and confusion.

roar84
04-13-2014, 09:26 PM
I really think this is a great thread and got me thinking about a Miguel Cabrera jersey I have from 2011. It is mlb authenticated as "team issued" at the end of the season but it is evident that it was worn by staining on the front near the collar. In addition, it has Jim Schmakel's initials on the tag with the letter G which designates it as a game jersey. Since it was evident that the jersey was worn, but I did not take the time to try an photomatch it, I had Cabrera autograph it and put "game worn." What are some thoughts if it is evident that the jersey was used and, as in the case with the Tigers, they initial the tag?

pungent
04-14-2014, 07:08 AM
If it is a player's final season where game used jerseys are sold at a premium, would you consider a game worn instead if you can get it at a lower price? I'm not sure if Mariano Rivera can be used as an example, but let's say last year, he wore a jersey but didn't pitch in the game that the jersey was authenticated. If it was sold in the secondary market for less than the game used jerseys, would it still be a solid investment?

jake33
04-14-2014, 03:10 PM
What is interesting to me is that at least 1 MLB will deem an item as "Game Issued" if the player suited up for the game, didn't play but was part of the 40-man roster.

It will be authenticated the same date as the specific game the player wore it in, but will be listed as issued.

A rep froman MLB team, said they will list an item as game issued, because the player isn't on the 25-man roster.

That same jersey is more than "issued" but it isn't game "used".

It isn't from one of those MLB authentications after the fact either. I went through the MLB database for a specific game and all the non roster players were deemed as game issued, but the team rep DID in fact confirm they were worn and the back up jersey from that specific game, so that can also make an issue.

gingi79
04-14-2014, 10:09 PM
If it is a player's final season where game used jerseys are sold at a premium, would you consider a game worn instead if you can get it at a lower price? I'm not sure if Mariano Rivera can be used as an example, but let's say last year, he wore a jersey but didn't pitch in the game that the jersey was authenticated. If it was sold in the secondary market for less than the game used jerseys, would it still be a solid investment?

This is a great question. Mo played a ton of dominant seasons, for the Yanks, wearing a number retired by MLB 15 years before he stopped wearing it, as a player few could argue was the best ever at his position. If any player makes the HOF as a Relief/Closer it's Rivera. Having a jersey he wore but didn't pitch in with MLB Authentication, to me at least, is worth much less than one worn during a game but much more than one from Spring Training let alone a Team Issued/ Game Issued version.

On the other hand, your average relief pitcher or bench player or even DH not named David Ortiz, wearing the jersey to watch the game from the bench or the relief pen doesn't carry any additional value in my mind.

One other caveat, if I attend the game, talk to the player and get a ball from him during warm ups and he never plays in the game? It becomes one of the most desirable game used jerseys in my collection. :D