Posts About Fraud

[ChrisCavalier]

Please note I have deleted two posts on the same topic recently accusing someone of fraud. After I deleted the first post, I sent an email to the poster explaining why the post was deleted. It included the following rule (with bolding for emphasis):

In instances where a forum member is identifying an item in the hobby they believe to have issues, the poster should clearly state their findings in the form of an opinion and provide adequate rationale for why they believe there is an issue. When possible, we recommend that the poster questioning an item attempt to contact the seller of the item and allow at least 24 hours for the seller to reply before posting. This will prevent postings that may be generated based on misunderstandings of an item. In addition, while this forum is designed to help educate collectors, we will not allow comments that accuse entities in the hobby of participating in any form of criminal wrong-doing. Any posts suggesting criminal wrong-doing should be brought to the attention of the moderators immediately.

Since the email I sent to the first poster came back as undeliverable (said the email address does not exist), I sent the first poster a PM through GUU with the same information and asked him to respond back with a workable email address so we can update it in GUU. I have not heard back from the first poster (hard to imagine, huh?).

Then, there is another post on the same topic today which I know for a FACT contained inaccurate information. I know because I was personally mentioned and the information was NOT correct.

I am asking everyone here to please familiarize yourself with all the forum rules. This is NOT a site where unsubstantiated accusations can be posted. I have no dog in the race but I know of other sites where people are allowed to post whatever they want without any rules and we are not one of them. Here is a link to the forum rules:

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=99

Please feel free to email me directly if you have any further questions. I can be reached at chris@gameuseduniverse.com.

-Chris

[ChrisCavalier]

To go one step further on the post above, while it is NOT MY ROLE to determine fraudulent activity (there are legal authorities who serve in that capacity,) if there is a member on GUU who has been PROVEN to participate in fraudulent activity, it should be brought to my attention.

In case some of you are wondering, we have banned members from this site that have been proven to sell fraudulent items.

-Chris

[Phil316]

Chris,

If companies are selling fraudulent items and keep offering fraudulent items should that not be brought to the attention of collectors? Especially the new collectors looking to possibly spend thousands on an item. I would feel horrible to watch someone spend their hard earned money on a fraudulent item. Morally it is just not right to turn a blind eye.

[ChrisCavalier]

Chris,

If companies are selling fraudulent items and keep offering fraudulent items should that not be brought to the attention of collectors? Especially the new collectors looking to possibly spend thousands on an item. I would feel horrible to watch someone spend their hard earned money on a fraudulent item. Morally it is just not right to turn a blind eye.
Hello Phil,

Let me make sure this is clear. As you have seen, there have been posts made on GUU (posts that were not deleted) that were based on substantiated information in terms potential legal wrongdoing. However, that is not the same as simply making posts accusing people of fraud when the legal system has not determined that to yet be the case. Those posts simply will not be allowed.

If you read the rule for posting, you will see that there is a protocol to follow in terms of making posts about questionable items and/or practices. If left unchecked, it would open the door for floods of posts accusing people of fraud when there may not be any basis for those claims. It is not something I think would benefit the community and the posters likely are not aware of the law suits they (as the posters of these accusations) open themselves up to by making such posts.

Of course it is easy to sit behind behind a keyboard and levy accusations at anyone you do not like or are unhappy with. However, this is not the site to do it and that is why we have the rules. For those wishing to do so, they can find plenty of sites that will let them post whatever they want without any rules whatsoever. I don't recommend doing it. But, those sites do exist for those who want them.

Sincerely,
Chris

[Phil316]

Thanks for the clarification. I understand what you are saying. Thanks

[jataman2612]

Then if that's the case how are we going to get the word out when we see something shady that is happening? We're just supposed to turn the other cheek and ignore it? This is an industry that we all love and to have a few bad apples ruin it by taking advantage of people just puts a black eye on the industry.

[admin_old]

Just follow these steps and it is encouraged to post in an effort to help the hobby...

In instances where a forum member is identifying an item in the hobby they believe to have issues, the poster should clearly state their findings in the form of an opinion and provide adequate rationale for why they believe there is an issue. When possible, we recommend that the poster questioning an item attempt to contact the seller of the item and allow at least 24 hours for the seller to reply before posting. This will prevent postings that may be generated based on misunderstandings of an item.

[earlywynnfan]

Then if that's the case how are we going to get the word out when we see something shady that is happening? We're just supposed to turn the other cheek and ignore it? This is an industry that we all love and to have a few bad apples ruin it by taking advantage of people just puts a black eye on the industry.

One lousy phone call and 24 hours is too much for you???

[jataman2612]

I was not aware of the 24 hour rule. I did not read the rules of this site because I thought it would be pretty much common sense what was ok and what isn't.

I had found something that I wanted to bring to everyone's attention because I care about this industry like everyone else. Had I read the rules I would have seen that. My apologies. I did send the person an email and haven't heard back from them. If I don't hear back in a few days I may post about it.

On the same note I have a question: Can I post my deleted post later in the week and alert people of what I came across since it happened Saturday? I think it would be good to get out there so that people know what is going on.

I am only asking this so that I follow within the rules and don't get banned. Any help would be appreciated.

[earlywynnfan]

I was not aware of the 24 hour rule. I did not read the rules of this site because I thought it would be pretty much common sense what was ok and what isn't.

I had found something that I wanted to bring to everyone's attention because I care about this industry like everyone else. Had I read the rules I would have seen that. My apologies. I did send the person an email and haven't heard back from them. If I don't hear back in a few days I may post about it.

On the same note I have a question: Can I post my deleted post later in the week and alert people of what I came across since it happened Saturday? I think it would be good to get out there so that people know what is going on.

I am only asking this so that I follow within the rules and don't get banned. Any help would be appreciated.

What is there to alert people about?? I WAS THERE!!! There was no shill bidding, there was live floor bidding.

[admin_old]

I was not aware of the 24 hour rule. I did not read the rules of this site because I thought it would be pretty much common sense what was ok and what isn't.

I had found something that I wanted to bring to everyone's attention because I care about this industry like everyone else. Had I read the rules I would have seen that. My apologies. I did send the person an email and haven't heard back from them. If I don't hear back in a few days I may post about it.

On the same note I have a question: Can I post my deleted post later in the week and alert people of what I came across since it happened Saturday? I think it would be good to get out there so that people know what is going on.

I am only asking this so that I follow within the rules and don't get banned. Any help would be appreciated.

The ebay bidding you were questioning appeared to be the live floor bids being entered into eBay. That was a live auction that allowed bids on eBay in addition to their live bids.

[jataman2612]

Well in that case that explains why the same account was constantly putting in bids for items that they were already winning. There was nothing on the ebay site that indicate there was live floor bidding.

I apologize for the confusion but next time it would be nice if they would indicate that in the auction. When you see 10+ bids from the same account that that person is already winning, shilling is the first thing that comes to mind.

[Phil316]

In general before you buy anything do your homework. Alot of people just take a sellers word or a piece of paper. Also keep in mind a certificate of authenticity is just a piece of paper and is about as good as the person who wrote it.

If you can photo match the item that trumps anything.