Willie Stargell Game used Pirates hat

[mrozie21]

I purchased this hat about 10+ years ago and was curious as to others thoughts regarding it. I know I bought it from an auction house but don't remember which one. Hat size is 7 3/8 and shows nice wear. The marking of W8 is different than the one's I've seen but I do know he varied his markings.

This came with a coa from former umpire Eric Gregg.

[Tallyman77]

Re: Willie Stargell Game used Pirates hat

Hi.....the size of 7 3/8 is correct for most all of Stargell's caps. I have seen several in size 7 1/4 also. But take a good look at what is under the bill as it looks like a #1 was turned into a "W". I think this one was #18 originally and was altered to come out being "W8." I have never seen a Stargell cap with this type of ID. I have seen plenty of "VIII" and "8" however.

-Walt

Tallyman77

[mrozie21]

Re: Willie Stargell Game used Pirates hat

Hi.....the size of 7 3/8 is correct for most all of Stargell's caps. I have seen several in size 7 1/4 also. But take a good look at what is under the bill as it looks like a #1 was turned into a "W". I think this one was #18 originally and was altered to come out being "W8." I have never seen a Stargell cap with this type of ID. I have seen plenty of "VIII" and "8" however.

-Walt

Tallyman77

Thanks for the reply Walt and when I examined it closely I think you're dead on. Any idea on the years this tagging was used?

[mrozie21]

Re: Willie Stargell Game used Pirates hat

It looks to be pre-1982/3 so I'm assuming an Omar Moreno hat?

[hrvatwill]

Re: Willie Stargell Game used Pirates hat

Thanks for the reply Walt and when I examined it closely I think you're dead on. Any idea on the years this tagging was used?

I have two yellow Pirates pillbox hats, one from Gossage, who only played in 1977, one from Rhoden, who joined late 1979 and played through 1986. The tagging on yours does not include the MLB official license tag about an inch and a half to the left on the New Era tag, which is present on my Rhoden hat but not present on the earlier Gossage. Against that backdrop, I would surmise that yours is around the time of Gossage. Also, if you look at the Pirates cap history on the new prosportscollectors.com page, this timeframe would appear to be corroborated.

[Tallyman77]

Re: Willie Stargell Game used Pirates hat

I also agree that it is one of the older pillbox style caps made before the MLB batterman labels were sewn inside......just wish it didn't have the obvious alteration to the number under the bill.

-Walt

Tallyman77

[mrozie21]

Re: Willie Stargell Game used Pirates hat

Thanks for the help Walt and Will.

Based on this I believe that it's an Omar Moreno hat then and I can't see any records of his hats for sale to know if it's the right size.

[genius]

Re: Willie Stargell Game used Pirates hat

Just thinking out loud here...10 years ago how much was a Willie Stargell hat worth? Meaning why would Eric Gregg who has many fans himself turn Omar Moreno's hat into a Stargell so he could get an extra $100 for it? The size is correct, maybe Stargell showed up at the park one night with only his black pillbox when they were wearing gold so he borrowed an extra from Moreno. Maybe even turned "18" into "W8" himself to personalize it, didn't like wearing someone else's hat. Then gave it to Eric Gregg after the game. Sometimes items that can be only "attributed" to a player really are from that player but just can't be proven. You can get a nice deal on them and they are fun to have. I think it's a cool hat and it's cool to have that letter from the great old ump!

[commando]

Re: Willie Stargell Game used Pirates hat

That index card is a forgery, in my opinion. You can compare Gregg's signature and writing style by looking through Google Images.

[genius]

Re: Willie Stargell Game used Pirates hat

That's an angle I hadn't thought of...unreal if true that someone would go that far to turn a Moreno hat into a Stargell, it'd be a great item just being Omar's hat!

[mrozie21]

Re: Willie Stargell Game used Pirates hat

It's a great hat that I plan on keeping it just means that I'll be on the lookout for a Stargell game hat as I still want one for my collection.

Thanks for the input everyone.

[sox83cubs84]

Re: Willie Stargell Game used Pirates hat

Sad to say, but I have to agree...it's a doctored Moreno lid. As Walt said, his number, both in standard and Roman numeral identifiers, are the norm for both caps and bats that Stargell used.

Dave Miedema