Legendary Auctions

[ShaimOnYou]

Do any of you wonder how Legendary Auctions is going to keep their doors open once all of the principles running it are sentenced? I believe every one with the exception of Ron Oser has plead guilty to fraud against collectors or some kind of crime related to the hobby. Doug Allen, Mark Theotikos, William Boehm, and of course the Original owner and mastermind of taking the collectors to the laundromat, Bill Mastro, are all preparing to serve time.

The case of Doug Allen is particularly comical. He thought he would outsmart the the FBI, so he alerted a huge investor in Legendary to "clean house" before the feds raided it, coached his friend/investor on how to answer questions because, as he alerted him, "I'll be wearing a wire", but then had that investor "friend" pants him in front of the FBI by turning on him and wearing a wire himself to bust Allen but good on the rebound. What a group of model citizens, huh?

Good thing for Mr. Oser he is a clean guy and never decided to participate in illegal practices against the hobbyists.



Or not. He was just maybe smarter or luckier, who knows.

So what happens to Legendary? Is someone else going to step up to the plate and take the wheel of Satan's Limousine Service as they continue to drive us all through the sports memorabilia auctions minefield?

Or, are we about to lose one of the biggest players in the industry for good?

Chris

[Chess2899]

Re: Legendary Auctions

They are about to get slammed again. This time it may be fatal.
We are seeing the period where Auction houses are no longer in protective havens. FBI is quick to act on tips. Auction houses will have to remain clean. There are various Task Forces with active Enforcement in place.

I think it is great for the hobby.

[Wrigley2010]

Re: Legendary Auctions

It is 100% great for the hobby. While the game used world will take a blow to its' credibility initially it will come out stronger in the end. We will all benefit from this.

[BVC]

Re: Legendary Auctions

As long as collectors "need stuff", auction houses will do whatever it takes to provide it, making as much profit as they possibly can while dealing with the risks of activities they know can increase their profits. The Feds have shown with Legendary that there will now be more of a risk that you'll be caught, and there is a penalty (interesting to see what that actually will be). As you say, there is no system for monitoring things, so if other auction houses think they can continue to get away with it, they will do so (see MLB, ped penalties, continued use, etc). It's formulaic.

Legendary will survive - why wouldn't it? Have you seen how many auction houses have started up in the last few years? Legendary already has a working infrastructure and they obviously are still getting consignors and making sales. My thinking is that things will get better for them.

These celebratory rants are getting kind of old - I think everyone is aware by now of what Doug and others did and you really can't settle old grudges through these kind of threads (ask the Prime Minister). All that's left at this point is to have parties outside the prison.

[ChrisCavalier]

Re: Legendary Auctions

As long as collectors "need stuff", auction houses will do whatever it takes to provide it, making as much profit as they possibly can while dealing with the risks of activities they know can increase their profits.

With all due respect, I 100% DISAGREE with this as a blanket statement. Specifically, I have been working for Ken Goldin for almost two years now and I can tell you Ken goes way above and beyond what most would expect in trying to determine if something is truly legitimate. In fact, I know for a fact that we kick out many items that we know full well will end up for sale elsewhere in the secondary market.

Please note that I understand the frustrations on the part of collectors in an industry that has been largely unregulated for many years. However, I think it is important to recognize that there are some who are trying to do everything possible to make sure they are not associated with questionable items. Btw, while I know it means forfeiting short-term revenue, one of the main reasons I work for Ken is his constant commitment to trying to do the right thing in this area.

Again, just wanted to make sure it is clear that there are companies, like Goldin, that work really hard not to succumb to compromising for short-term profit.

-Chris

[sox83cubs84]

Re: Legendary Auctions

With all due respect, I 100% DISAGREE with this as a blanket statement. Specifically, I have been working for Ken Goldin for almost two years now and I can tell you Ken goes way above and beyond what most would expect in trying to determine if something is truly legitimate. In fact, I know for a fact that we kick out many items that we know full well will end up for sale elsewhere in the secondary market.

Please note that I understand the frustrations on the part of collectors in an industry that has been largely unregulated for many years. However, I think it is important to recognize that there are some who are trying to do everything possible to make sure they are not associated with questionable items. Btw, while I know it means forfeiting short-term revenue, one of the main reasons I work for Ken is his constant commitment to trying to do the right thing in this area.

Again, just wanted to make sure it is clear that there are companies, like Goldin, that work really hard not to succumb to compromising for short-term profit.

-Chris

Chris:

I fully agree with you. I would say the same for Huggins & Scott, as well.

Dave Miedema

[BVC]

Re: Legendary Auctions

With all due respect, I 100% DISAGREE with this as a blanket statement. Specifically, I have been working for Ken Goldin for almost two years now and I can tell you Ken goes way above and beyond what most would expect in trying to determine if something is truly legitimate. In fact, I know for a fact that we kick out many items that we know full well will end up for sale elsewhere in the secondary market.

Please note that I understand the frustrations on the part of collectors in an industry that has been largely unregulated for many years. However, I think it is important to recognize that there are some who are trying to do everything possible to make sure they are not associated with questionable items. Btw, while I know it means forfeiting short-term revenue, one of the main reasons I work for Ken is his constant commitment to trying to do the right thing in this area.

Again, just wanted to make sure it is clear that there are companies, like Goldin, that work really hard not to succumb to compromising for short-term profit.

-Chris

Chris, I should have said "most". Obviously not all auction houses are going to cheat or be misleading; however, I have been dealing with misleading item titles and descriptions for years, even from honest auction houses. I could give you countless examples of items that even an experienced collector could have been mislead by the information provided, but a novice who simply wanted something cool and trusted the description, could end up paying way too much for if bidding against the wrong person.

But I did unwittingly provide you another opportunity to toss in an advertisement, so all should be good

[BVC]

Re: Legendary Auctions

Chris:

I fully agree with you. I would say the same for Huggins & Scott, as well.

Dave Miedema

Dave, I did not read your post until after I had posted mine. I can't imagine anyone saying that about H&S after the recent debacle with the 'Fleetwood Walker', 'Amos Rusie' and 'Joe Jackson' multi-player photos. That stuff was unforgivable and needs to stop. The misleading descriptions and titles that I was referring to are much less dangerous to the hobby, although still a bad thing (in my opinion).

As an addendum, if Chris ever reads other boards, I'm sure he has seen my plugs for Ken's photo-matching game-used stuff. That's a huge step forward for auction houses and hopefully others will follow his lead.

[sox83cubs84]

Re: Legendary Auctions

Dave, I did not read your post until after I had posted mine. I can't imagine anyone saying that about H&S after the recent debacle with the 'Fleetwood Walker', 'Amos Rusie' and 'Joe Jackson' multi-player photos. That stuff was unforgivable and needs to stop. The misleading descriptions and titles that I was referring to are much less dangerous to the hobby, although still a bad thing (in my opinion).

As an addendum, if Chris ever reads other boards, I'm sure he has seen my plugs for Ken's photo-matching game-used stuff. That's a huge step forward for auction houses and hopefully others will follow his lead.

I never heard about that issue. Pleaase email me privately with details.

Dave Miedema
sox83cubs84@hotmail.com

[ShaimOnYou]

Re: Legendary Auctions

Chris:

I fully agree with you. I would say the same for Huggins & Scott, as well.

Dave Miedema

I understand you authenticate many of their items, Mr. Miedema, but you need to be careful who you get into the sack with. Blanket statements of support are troublesome. You'll always get let down.

http://haulsofshame.com/blog/?p=33375#more-33375

[ShaimOnYou]

Re: Legendary Auctions

Dave, I did not read your post until after I had posted mine. I can't imagine anyone saying that about H&S after the recent debacle with the 'Fleetwood Walker', 'Amos Rusie' and 'Joe Jackson' multi-player photos. That stuff was unforgivable and needs to stop. The misleading descriptions and titles that I was referring to are much less dangerous to the hobby, although still a bad thing (in my opinion).

As an addendum, if Chris ever reads other boards, I'm sure he has seen my plugs for Ken's photo-matching game-used stuff. That's a huge step forward for auction houses and hopefully others will follow his lead.

In my experience I have found that auction houses displaying a "photo-matched" item typically were hand fed that visual provenance. I am not speaking for Goldin Auctions because I don't have knowledge as to the depth of authentication they participate in themselves. If they do participate in searches for better provenance, then kudos to them.

Most auction house employees that participate in the "write-ups" of the individual items may do a quick bit of research, but all-in-all it's minimal as there just isn't time to research every item. And in my honest opinion, that's shameful. There's time enough to rake in the big bucks selling the stuff, but no time to properly authenticate the items they're getting rich off of? That is one of my biggest problems with the hobby. And the main reason why collectors need to live by the old adage "Do your own homework".

But in regards to almost all of the items you see in general listed in auctions, usually the consignor is the one who hands over the photo-match provenance on an item-to-item basis. The auction houses then posts it as it helps the cause for both.

[BVC]

Re: Legendary Auctions

In my experience I have found that auction houses displaying a "photo-matched" item typically were hand fed that visual provenance. I am not speaking for Goldin Auctions because I don't have knowledge as to the depth of authentication they participate in themselves. If they do participate in searches for better provenance, then kudos to them.

Most auction house employees that participate in the "write-ups" of the individual items may do a quick bit of research, but all-in-all it's minimal as there just isn't time to research every item. And in my honest opinion, that's shameful. There's time enough to rake in the big bucks selling the stuff, but no time to properly authenticate the items they're getting rich off of? That is one of my biggest problems with the hobby. And the main reason why collectors need to live by the old adage "Do your own homework".

But in regards to almost all of the items you see in general listed in auctions, usually the consignor is the one who hands over the photo-match provenance on an item-to-item basis. The auction houses then posts it as it helps the cause for both.

I agree completely, but I know that Ken understands the importance of photo-matching to the hobby better than most;i.e-keeping the hobby reputable in spite of things like the Eli Manning fiasco, and so goes to extra lengths to provide photo-matches for his items. Many AH's still don't get it, and just accept stuff with faulty provenance, or, as you say, take the photo-matches that are given to them.

For modern game-used there is no excuse for the NFL not providing photo matches for EVERYTHING they sell. There are ways to do this that will certainly involve more overhead, but the payoff would make up for it. We just have to demand it. I would love to see ONE team take the lead on this, providing a model for the rest. If successful, all others would be forced to do the same.

[ShaimOnYou]

Re: Legendary Auctions

So it starts.

Like rats running from the burning warehouse.

[ShaimOnYou]

Re: Legendary Auctions

And what's this all about?

They guesstimated this jersey could reach $3,000,000.

$175,000 doesn't cut it, so just extend the auction until the 18th of December?

I guess when your doors are closing so you can go sit in the pokie, you might as well do whatever you want.

Shameful while in business, pitifully shameful closing the doors.

[BVC]

Re: Legendary Auctions

The Gretzky jersey extension is ridiculous. They photo-matched it in the original description so there was no need for this, other than to get more bids. It's not the way an auction should be run, and if it's any indication of their non-Doug Allen future, they are in big trouble.