Retail or Game Used ? Eagles Jersey

[Phil316]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/William-Thomas-Game-Used-Jersey-Philadelphia-Eagles-AUTOGRAPHED-/121591826509?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c4f70084d

This to me looks like a retail authentic by the ProLine tagging on the front. Am i correct ?

thoughts ?

[gobills123]

Retail. It isn't pro-cut, has neck tag, and back then NFL pushed PROLINE as top of the line retail. The factory that customized Champion and Russell would apply that tag after customization. On Bills jerseys at the very least, its an AUTOMATIC tell its retail.

[Phil316]

Thanks.

[G1X]

Looks retail to me in my humble opinion.

One important note to clarify about Russell neck tags. In 1996, Russell had the small neck tags in NFL game-used jerseys worn by the Falcons and, I believe, the Eagles as well. There would usually be a small Extra Length tag in the neck of these '96 jerseys as well. Typically, there was not a Russell tail tag on these 1996 jerseys - at least not in the ones I have seen.

Also, some teams had large Russell tags in the neck that were similar to the typical Russell tail tag. The circa-1990 Houston Oilers quickly come to mind. I will post photos of the above mentioned Falcons and Oilers jerseys if I can find examples in my files.

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net

Always looking for World Football League uniforms

[sox83cubs84]

Looks retail to me in my humble opinion.

One important note to clarify about Russell neck tags. In 1996, Russell had the small neck tags in NFL game-used jerseys worn by the Falcons and, I believe, the Eagles as well. There would usually be a small Extra Length tag in the neck of these '96 jerseys as well. Typically, there was not a Russell tail tag on these 1996 jerseys - at least not in the ones I have seen.

Also, some teams had large Russell tags in the neck that were similar to the typical Russell tail tag. The circa-1990 Houston Oilers quickly come to mind. I will post photos of the above mentioned Falcons and Oilers jerseys if I can find examples in my files.

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net

Always looking for World Football League uniforms

Based on what I have in my files, I am positive that you are correct on this, Mark.

Dave Miedema

[Samets]

Dave,

Can I get a copy of your files on the Chicago Bears?

[G1X]

Looks retail to me in my humble opinion.

One important note to clarify about Russell neck tags. In 1996, Russell had the small neck tags in NFL game-used jerseys worn by the Falcons and, I believe, the Eagles as well. There would usually be a small Extra Length tag in the neck of these '96 jerseys as well. Typically, there was not a Russell tail tag on these 1996 jerseys - at least not in the ones I have seen.

Also, some teams had large Russell tags in the neck that were similar to the typical Russell tail tag. The circa-1990 Houston Oilers quickly come to mind. I will post photos of the above mentioned Falcons and Oilers jerseys if I can find examples in my files.

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net

Always looking for World Football League uniforms

I found the photos. The first one is a 1996 Falcons jersey. The other is a 1990 Houston Oilers. (NOTE: The Oilers jersey was "recycled" for use in 1991 or later as it has the NFL neck shield that was added by all teams in 1991.)

Dave Miedema - when you have a moment, please let me know your thoughts about the Wilson tagging shown in my post at http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=63890

Thanks!

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net

Always looking for World Football League uniforms

[gobills123]

I have a Falcons Chris Miller that fits this bill as well in re: to the neck tag. I'd always wondered, and found it odd, so thanks for the info. With the jersey in question, if it had a different cut and didnt have the proline tag we'd be having a different discussion. I'd guess around 96/97 was when Proline tags started being applied to gamers. I always foud that to be weird that the NFL made it a point to use Pro Line to push retail and it eventually made it gamers...

[G1X]

I have a Falcons Chris Miller that fits this bill as well in re: to the neck tag. I'd always wondered, and found it odd, so thanks for the info. With the jersey in question, if it had a different cut and didnt have the proline tag we'd be having a different discussion. I'd guess around 96/97 was when Proline tags started being applied to gamers. I always foud that to be weird that the NFL made it a point to use Pro Line to push retail and it eventually made it gamers...

Sounds like the same issue with your Falcons Chris Miller jersey also being a replica. Miller was long gone from Atlanta by 1996 as he played for the Falcons from 1987 through 1993. The Falcons wore Russell during that time except in the 1990 preseason (wore Russell in the regular season) and all of 1991 when they wore Champion. The tagging should be in the tail for those years, and there also should be a year tag if it is from the period of 1990 - 1993 (prior years usually had year tags, but not always). The Champion jerseys do not have year tags, but the '90 preseason jerseys have the Falcons 25th patch.

Below are photos showing tagging examples that should be seen on a game-worn Falcons jersey of Chris Miller along with a photo showing a variety of Falcons tagging through the years. Note the '78 year tags in the group photo - it was screened on the red jerseys and stitched on the white jerseys.

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net

ALWAYS LOOKING FOR WORLD FOOTBALL LEAGUE UNIFORMS

[sox83cubs84]

Dave,

Can I get a copy of your files on the Chicago Bears?

Samets: My files are arranged by manufacturer, not team. If you've got a specific, I'll be glad to help.

Mark: I'm in agrrement with Anthony's findings.

Dave M.

[gobills123]

Sounds like the same issue with your Falcons Chris Miller jersey also being a replica. Miller was long gone from Atlanta by 1996 as he played for the Falcons from 1987 through 1993. The Falcons wore Russell during that time except in the 1990 preseason (wore Russell in the regular season) and all of 1991 when they wore Champion. The tagging should be in the tail for those years, and there also should be a year tag if it is from the period of 1990 - 1993 (prior years usually had year tags, but not always). The Champion jerseys do not have year tags, but the '90 preseason jerseys have the Falcons 25th patch.

Below are photos showing tagging examples that should be seen on a game-worn Falcons jersey of Chris Miller along with a photo showing a variety of Falcons tagging through the years. Note the '78 year tags in the group photo - it was screened on the red jerseys and stitched on the white jerseys.

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net

ALWAYS LOOKING FOR WORLD FOOTBALL LEAGUE UNIFORMS

Thanks!! My knowledge for/of vintage Bills jerseys is second to none, but I dont keep up with other teams other than general things. The Miller was actually my first purchase a few years ago and although it was purchased as issued/worn, I'd always thought it was incorrect and was a retail because of the neck tag. It had a couple repairs though, so I could never be sure as they looked like team repairs. It also wasnt procut, but was not like your avg retail authentic either. Regardless, it was cheap and came at a time when I was still learning and more or less just thought it was a cool jersey. I never thought much of it or considered it to really be game worn as I'n not even sure what bin its in at this point in time but the initial post made me remember it so I figured I'd mention it.

Sidebar.. With Bills jerseys in the 80s and mid 90's, there are no "rules" non plated, plated, long plate, short plate, side panels or not its just crazy. Over time I've been able to at least know whats generally true, but see things that make me question things.

Theres a few auction sites for example that have sold Kelly "game used" for 2k+ that are simply just not game worn. The Bills store and champion sold retail authentics that had KELLY plated from shoulder to shoulder but I've never seen a real gamer ( I own at least 10 as he is my primary focus) that didnt have the plate only as long as his name.
I do own one that the name is applied to the jersey itself as for whatever reason happened from time to time. This rule isnt always exact though as I have a Reich that the plate extends the entire back. Size tags post 90 are almost always numbered, but I've seen a few instances where it was L or XL like the pre 90 Champion tagging but it was w/o/a doubt a gamer.
POINT BEING... Someone somewhere bought a Kelly retail authentic and paid a bunch for it because these companies gave an LOA stating it was a gameworn jersey. Many people are experts on one or a couple teams, but its got to be near impossible to be an expert on ALL teams for all eras for all sports. There are generalities, but the point of the Bills jersey talk was there are no exact RULES because things can get pretty wonky at times...
Obviously, new stuff makes it much easier with MLB and NFL certs, but with this old stuff how do we know for sure with these companies dishing out LOA's? Do they have people who are indeed experts on every team for every period, or are they just using educated guesses based on what they've seen? If thats the case, what happens when they are wrong?
If someone dishes out 2k for a Kelly, and a Bills collector tells them its not what they think, how can they prove to the company its not a gamer even if it really isnt? It just seems like a big circle in that case and I was just wondering how that works. I'd love to hear an opinion..

Sorry for going slightly off topic, but it kind of applies in a round about way and I had always wondered.

Thanks!!