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View Full Version : Barry Bonds - It's Not My Fault, It's Always Someone Else's



sammy
01-11-2007, 08:48 AM
http://sports.aol.com/mlb/story/_a/bonds-reportedly-failed-amphetamine-test/20070111025409990001

Yankwood
01-11-2007, 09:41 AM
24% told me all I needed to hear. These voters are not about to diminish what Aaron and Maris did by letting the likes of McGwire, Sosa, Palmeiro and yes, even Bonds, into the Hall and honoring them when they knew they were cheating. Every intelligent form of life should know the rules of life by now. One of them is, if you cheat, you may get caught. If you get caught, suffer the consequences. That's what is happening right now. Why all the fuss and why all the tears for these guys? They cheated, they got caught and life goes on.

staindsox
01-11-2007, 09:52 AM
Yankwood, you're on a roll. I absolutely agree. They knew the rules, they cheated, and have to deal with the consequences. More and more of the old timers are getting angry. Even Harmon Killebrew, who is as low key as they come, made a few comments showing his frustration on the steroid issue. These guys feel their records are being stolen by cheaters. If anyone is a victim, I would say it is them.

hblakewolf
01-11-2007, 10:07 AM
Yankwood-

McGwire used Andro and admitted it. I'm not aware of a single positive test ever being produced that implicates big MAC of using Steroids. Until I see some type of substantiated documented proof, he's still one of the best who has ever played the game-period!

On a related topic, Phil Niekro admitted that he "cheated" every time he pitched, yet he is in the Hall of Fame. Here is a guy who admitted he cheated, and is in? McGwire admitted NOTHING, however, has HOF #'s and is excluded?

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

Seeking McGwire game used equipment, especially a Cardinals pre-game/BP jersey, 1998 home and road pants and batting helmet.

Yankwood
01-11-2007, 10:18 AM
If a cop pulls me over and I'm drunk so I refuse the breathalizer, do you think the cops and the judge and the DA say, "Damn, he got away". Don't waste your time worrying about these guys. They aren't worth it. If someone thinks Big Mac is innocent, not only must he or she be blind but deaf as well, regarding his pitiful performance before congress.

This subject about guilt and innocence has been beaten to death but I can not hide my head in the sand on this one.

Also if the cop pulls me over for speeding, I can't say, "What about Charlie? He was speeding down this same street 20 years ago and nobody gave him a speeding ticket. How come I'm getting one?"
I can't do anything about what happened then but why does that mean we all become deaf and blind now?

Again, and it can't be any simpler, IF YOU CHEAT, YOU MAY GET CAUGHT. WHEN AND IF IT HAPPENS, JUST SHUT UP AND SUFFER THE PENALTY. This penalty will be a doozie but it's a good message for kids. Letting them all go scott free, is not.

hblakewolf
01-11-2007, 10:34 AM
Yankwood-
We'll fill this thread up pretty quickly if we continue down this path. No doubt, we agree to disagree.

Until I see some type of substantiated hard proof, MAC is being used as the whipping post for all Steroid users.

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

Eric
01-11-2007, 10:38 AM
New York Daily News - http://www.nydailynews.com (http://www.nydailynews.com/)Failure leaves a testy Barry
BY T.J. QUINN
DAILY NEWS SPORTS WRITER
Thursday, January 11th, 2007

Barry Bonds, already under investigation for lying under oath about his steroid use, failed a test under Major League Baseball's amphetamine policy last season and then initially blamed it on a teammate, the Daily News has learned.

Under the policy, which went into effect only last season, players are not publicly identified for a first positive test.

But according to several sources, when first informed by the MLB Players Association of the positive test, Bonds attributed it to a substance he had taken from the locker of teammate Mark Sweeney. Sources did not identify the drug in question but characterized it as a serious stimulant.

When asked last night whether Bonds had an explanation for why he failed the test or if he wanted to issue a denial, Bonds' agent, Jeff Borris, said, "I have no comment on that."

Giants officials did not return calls seeking comment last night.

Bonds, who has long defended himself against steroid accusations by saying he "never failed a drug test," did not appeal his positive test, but was immediately subject to an additional six drug tests by MLB over the next six months.

Sweeney declined comment, but his agent, Barry Axelrod, told The News, "Mark was made aware of the fact that his name had been brought up, but he did not give Barry Bonds anything and there was nothing he could have given Barry Bonds."

Bonds was not punished for his transgression, but instead was referred to treatment and counseling. While amphetamines are considered performance-enhancing drugs, they are treated differently than steroids under baseball's drug policy. Had Bonds failed a steroid test, he would have been suspended for 50 games, but under baseball's amphetamine policy no one is publicly identified or suspended until a second positive, which would result in a 25-game suspension. A player is suspended for 80 games for a third positive.

The policy covers a range of stimulants, including the ubiquitous "greenies," or Dexedrine. Benzedrine, ephedrine and the stimulants Ritalin and Adderall, which are used to treat attention-deficit disorder, are among the substances on the policy.

"We're not in a position to confirm or deny, obviously," MLB spokesman Rich Levin said. "A second failed test would mean a suspension."

Sources said Sweeney, a first baseman/outfielder, first heard about the test when Gene Orza, the chief operating officer of the players association, called to say the player's name had been dragged into the controversy.

Orza told Sweeney that if he had anything troublesome in his locker, he should remove it and that he should not be sharing substances with other players. Sweeney told Orza that there was nothing in his locker that would be of concern, sources said.

Axelrod would not comment on the conversation between Orza and Sweeney. Orza also refused to comment on what he said to Sweeney or about Bonds' failed test, but added, "I can say unequivocally in my 22 years I've known Barry Bonds he has never blamed anyone for anything."

Sweeney apparently confronted Bonds, and Bonds told him that Orza had misunderstood, that he had not intended to implicate his teammate.

Bonds has been in the doping spotlight since September 2003, when federal agents raided the BALCO lab and the home of Bonds' personal trainer, Greg Anderson. Bonds testified before a grand jury in the steroid-trafficking case that he had taken substances identified by the government as steroids, but that he believed they were legal supplements. A Daily News reporter overheard part of his testimony that day admitting he had unknowingly used steroids, and a year later the San Francisco Chronicle published extended excerpts from the grand jury transcripts.

The leaks about Bonds' steroid use were not sufficient evidence to allow MLB to test Bonds for cause, but the failed amphetamine test is.

BALCO founder Victor Conte, Anderson and three other men served prison sentences for their parts in the trafficking ring, and Bonds has been under investigation for perjury and tax evasion for more than two years. Anderson is in prison on a contempt charge for refusing to testify against his longtime friend. Long before steroids took hold in clubhouses in the early 1990s, amphetamines were the performance-enhancer of choice in baseball. Even when baseball first adopted a steroids policy in 2003, amphetamines were not specifically banned or tested for, although many are illegal without a prescription.

suave1477
01-11-2007, 10:43 AM
Yankwood-

McGwire used Andro and admitted it. I'm not aware of a single positive test ever being produced that implicates big MAC of using Steroids. Until I see some type of substantiated documented proof, he's still one of the best who has ever played the game-period!

On a related topic, Phil Niekro admitted that he "cheated" every time he pitched, yet he is in the Hall of Fame. Here is a guy who admitted he cheated, and is in? McGwire admitted NOTHING, however, has HOF #'s and is excluded?

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

Seeking McGwire game used equipment, especially a Cardinals pre-game/BP jersey, 1998 home and road pants and batting helmet.

1) Howard, as we may not see the direct proof through the Media of Mac using Roids. A player I know who had played with Mac had told me Mac used Roids.

2) To your next comment - Think about what you just said. Neikro admitted cheating and he was allowed in the Hall. Mac doesn't admit it and even though he has high numbers and he is not allowed in.

I think you answered yourself on that one!!!

I beleive it is Human Nature to forgive, and forget when someone can admit they were wrong.

REMEMBER JASON GIAMBI - he was the big Roids scandal of the Yankees people were ripping him a new on left and right for the whole season, he comes out never actually saying he took the roids but he came out apologizing and all of a sudden its like it never happend. Over night everyone completely forgets.

sylbry
01-11-2007, 11:03 AM
If a cop pulls me over and I'm drunk so I refuse the breathalizer, do you think the cops and the judge and the DA say, "Damn, he got away". Don't waste your time worrying about these guys. They aren't worth it. If someone thinks Big Mac is innocent, not only must he or she be blind but deaf as well, regarding his pitiful performance before congress.

This subject about guilt and innocence has been beaten to death but I can not hide my head in the sand on this one.

Also if the cop pulls me over for speeding, I can't say, "What about Charlie? He was speeding down this same street 20 years ago and nobody gave him a speeding ticket. How come I'm getting one?"
I can't do anything about what happened then but why does that mean we all become deaf and blind now?

Again, and it can't be any simpler, IF YOU CHEAT, YOU MAY GET CAUGHT. WHEN AND IF IT HAPPENS, JUST SHUT UP AND SUFFER THE PENALTY. This penalty will be a doozie but it's a good message for kids. Letting them all go scott free, is not.

You forgot one.

How about Charlie gets pulled over for doing 100mph over the limit and get's thrown in jail. He claims he should only get a $100 ticket like his friend Joe, who got a ticket for doing 10mph over the limit, because afterall they were both simply speeding.

PK
01-11-2007, 11:18 AM
[quote=hblakewolf;30195]Yankwood-

McGwire used Andro and admitted it. I'm not aware of a single positive test ever being produced that implicates big MAC of using Steroids. Until I see some type of substantiated documented proof, he's still one of the best who has ever played the game-period!

Howard Wolf

Best ever? Please. He did one thing well, hit home runs. 7th all time in HR and and hit one every 10.6 times he was at bat. Other then that what?? Not too much. IF, he gets elected he would have one of the lowets batting averages ever(.263), has only 1,626 hits(would be very low on list), played average defense at first base with 1 gold glove, 12 CAREER stolen bases, sturck out more then 25% of the time he stepped to the plate 1,596 SO to 6,187 AB and was never an MVP.

He admitted to Andro and another over the counter drug that I cannot remember and at the item was legal in baseball and not tested for so he does get a pass there, but where there is smoke there is always fire. Look at how much his body changed during and then after his career ended. Something sure let all the air our of him because he looks nothing like he did when he played except for all the pock marks on his sandpaper face. I know what I saw when he went in frort of Congress and he was a deer in headlights with something to hide. As I heard someone say, only Mobsters go in front of Congress or a jury and pleed the 5th. Or not there to "talk about the past"

JimCaravello
01-11-2007, 12:01 PM
Sorry Howard - McGwire is no HOFer..........and his not answering questions shows the spineless - gutless person he really is. I wouldn't want to talk about my past if I had to lie to cover up mistakes...........

Don Mattingly will never make the HOF and McGwire doesn't even come close to Mattingly relative to offense - defense ( Mattingly had 9 gold gloves ) - being a team player and leader - and attitude on and off the field.....Mattingly won a MVP and a batting title and he should have won the MVP in 1986 ( sorry Clemens fans ). Yeah - he hit more HRs than Donnie did - but too much emphasis is placed on HRs by fans and the media.

McGwire was Dave Kingman on steroids - that's all he was..................and we know Kingman is never getting in.............

We'll disagree for sure - but he wasn't even near one of the best players ( all around ) while he played and definitely not in the history of the game........

jim

3arod13
01-11-2007, 12:57 PM
Unfortunatley, we live in a society today where it is so common for people to lie, cheat, and steal today, especially in business and sports. Heck, we even have military people who do wrong and are rewarded with medals. Do they deserve the medal, no, but that's life today. Police Officers, Judges, business, etc. My point is, in a perfect world, everything that is being said would be great. However, reality is reality. Favoritism is favoritism. We all know how it works. Don't agree with it, but again it's life today.

I don't think anyone who lies, cheats, or steals should benefit or be rewarded in any way...period. But it happens, the negatives are overlooked depending on who is it and if they're liked, and again that's reality today.

We all know what should be done. But I do believe in innocent until proven guilty. Facts are facts and you can't argue with facts. But people just love to judge.

Do I believe McGwire used steroids, yes. Based on how he resonded at the hearing. Do I believe the guy down the street from me is selling drugs out of his house..yes. Not much I can do about it until he is caught and found guilty.

I may come across hard, but I'm just a realist.

Would I vote for McGwire...NO! I don't care how many home runs he it. I'm an avide Arod fan. If it was proven he used steroids, I wouldnt be a fan and wouldn't want him in the hall of fame. Don't care what positive he did give. He cheated!

Tony

3arod13
01-11-2007, 01:01 PM
Would I vote for McGwire...NO! I don't care how many home runs he it. I'm an avide Arod fan. If it was proven he used steroids, I wouldnt be a fan and wouldn't want him in the hall of fame. Don't care what positive he did give. He cheated!

Tony

Sorry for the typo's: Would I vote for McGwire...NO! I don't care how many home runs he hit. I'm an avid Arod fan. I f it was proven he used steroids, I wouldnt be a fan and wouldn't want him in the hall of fame. I don't care what positives he did give. He cheated!

bscott
01-11-2007, 01:05 PM
I agree with the previous posts.
I love the "Dave Kingman on steroids" line.

McGwire's statistical achievements:
1626 hits
.263 lifetime avg.

These are not first ballot hall-of-fame numbers. Period.

Everyone's talking and writing about steroids, but it's McGwire's lifetime numbers that complete the tale.

But, remember, even Joe DiMaggio didn't get elected to the HOF until his third year of eligibility.

However, I, for one, won't be a hypocrite and say that it wasn't a blast watching McGwire (and Sosa) resurrect the game in 1998.
He was large, and larger than the game that year.

So time will tell if he gets a membership card to Cooperstown.
We're smack dab in the middle of a modern day witch hunt, so things are clouded. When the smoke clears and the dust settles, who knows...?

But I have a safe prediction: even Pete Rose will make in to the HOF one day. Rose may not be alive to see it, but he'll get in. That's just the way of the overly righteous gate keepers of this "elite" club.

-b.scott

allstarsplus
04-27-2007, 11:07 AM
Victor Conte is back in business with his old nutritional business called SNAC.

http://www.snac.com

Here's a picture from the HomePage. Do you recognize the baseball player?

http://www.snac.com/images/athletes/15_lg.jpg

33bird
04-27-2007, 02:40 PM
I agree with the Big Mac is a cheater threads. His congress appearence told it all. If he never used Roids he would have went in there and went crazy denying all the lies. He didn't. I think the only people who won't accept the truth about Big Mac are the ones that invested a lot of money in his game used stuff. Now, they can't get rid of it without taking a huge loss. Big Mac and his "followers" are in denial. I feel bad for them. It looked, at the time, that Big Mac stuff would be a solid investment. My how things can change.
G.Todd

hblakewolf
04-27-2007, 02:47 PM
I agree with the Big Mac is a cheater threads. His congress appearence told it all. If he never used Roids he would have went in there and went crazy denying all the lies. He didn't. I think the only people who won't accept the truth about Big Mac are the ones that invested a lot of money in his game used stuff. Now, they can't get rid of it without taking a huge loss. Big Mac and his "followers" are in denial. I feel bad for them. It looked, at the time, that Big Mac stuff would be a solid investment. My how things can change.
G.Todd


G. Todd-

Great point-similar to the way Palmiero did this????

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

ALWAYS BUYING PHILLIES, PORTLAND BEAVERS AND PORTLAND MAVERICKS JERSEYS

cards-bats
04-27-2007, 03:09 PM
I can't stand Barry Bonds, but I think it's funny to see Harmon Killebrew jumping on him. I had a guy that tried to sell me a lot of 4-5 game used Killebrew bats that came directly from him about 13-14 years ago. Three of the four or four of the five bats were loaded with cork in the ends. The bats were old enough that the wood filler in the ends had shrunk down so you could remove the "plug" and see the cork in the ends.

allstarsplus
04-27-2007, 05:58 PM
I can't stand Barry Bonds, but I think it's funny to see Harmon Killebrew jumping on him. I had a guy that tried to sell me a lot of 4-5 game used Killebrew bats that came directly from him about 13-14 years ago. Three of the four or four of the five bats were loaded with cork in the ends. The bats were old enough that the wood filler in the ends had shrunk down so you could remove the "plug" and see the cork in the ends.


So Killebrew used them strictly for Batting Practice---kind of like Sosa;) ;)

Unsplendid splinter
Cubs rally past Rays after Sosa's ignominious ejection

Posted: Tuesday June 03, 2003 8:42 PM
Updated: Wednesday June 04, 2003 9:31 PM


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/news/2003/06/03/sosa_ejected_ap/t1_sosa_ap.jpg Sammy Sosa broke his bat in the first inning on a grounder to second base with runners at second and third. AP
CHICAGO (AP) -- Once Sammy Sosa (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/4344/) was caught using a corked bat, there was one big question: Was he cheating when he hit any of those 505 home runs?
The Chicago Cubs (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/teams/cubs/)' star slugger, 17th on the career home-run list, was ejected in the first inning of Tuesday night's 3-2 win over the Tampa Bay Devil Rays (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/teams/devil_rays/) after umpires found cork in his shattered bat.
Sosa said it was all an honest mistake.
"I use that bat for batting practice," he said. "It's something that I take the blame for. It's a mistake, I know that. I feel sorry. I just apologize to everybody that are embarrassed."

33bird
04-28-2007, 01:58 PM
Howard-that's true about Rafeal. BUT, I don't think Big Mac wanted to lie under oath and then get caught. So, he didn't deny it or plead guilty, and he looked like a fool. Silence is stupid. He thinks this will disappear or fans will stop caring-and this will never happen. If they accused me of this and I never did it, I would be bitching all over the press to prove my innocency. Mac knows he's guilty. I believe someday he'll fess up.
Greg

mr.miracle
04-30-2007, 11:40 AM
[quote=hblakewolf;30195]Yankwood-

McGwire used Andro and admitted it. I'm not aware of a single positive test ever being produced that implicates big MAC of using Steroids. Until I see some type of substantiated documented proof, he's still one of the best who has ever played the game-period!

Howard Wolf

Best ever? Please. He did one thing well, hit home runs. 7th all time in HR and and hit one every 10.6 times he was at bat. Other then that what?? Not too much. IF, he gets elected he would have one of the lowets batting averages ever(.263), has only 1,626 hits(would be very low on list), played average defense at first base with 1 gold glove, 12 CAREER stolen bases, sturck out more then 25% of the time he stepped to the plate 1,596 SO to 6,187 AB and was never an MVP.

He admitted to Andro and another over the counter drug that I cannot remember and at the item was legal in baseball and not tested for so he does get a pass there, but where there is smoke there is always fire. Look at how much his body changed during and then after his career ended. Something sure let all the air our of him because he looks nothing like he did when he played except for all the pock marks on his sandpaper face. I know what I saw when he went in frort of Congress and he was a deer in headlights with something to hide. As I heard someone say, only Mobsters go in front of Congress or a jury and pleed the 5th. Or not there to "talk about the past"


Mark McGwire may have been for all intents and purposes a "one dimesional player" however my question is this; at what point do you achieve HOF status for being the best of the best at what you do. McGwire forever clouded his past achievements and future HOF status that day in front of congress. If he would have never appeared before congress and that debacle would not have occured nor any additional speculation regarding steroids; would that have changed the HOF voters minds? I am not entirely sure as speculation would still abound that Big Mac used PED's. The facts are this, he was the most prolific home run hitter in history in terms of homers per at bat as the numbers here do not lie. Injuries took their toll on Big Mac and many may argue this was from his own doing if he did take illegal substances. If he would not have missed the many games that he did and would have stayed healthy at the end of his career he might have added another 100 home runs.

Maybe this is not comparing apples to apples but if a closer such as Rollie Fingers or Bruce Sutter gets into the HOF being one dimensional in what they did, why can McGwire or another specialist not be inducted in the HOF. All Big Mac did was hit homers but he did it more often than anyone in baseball history so that needs to be taken into account.

Whether or not that ultimately is enough to outweigh all the questions and controversy surrounding his career is something that the voters and history will ultimately have to judge.