Favre Helmet - SCP - Not a 1992 Favre as listed

[helmets]

The SCP Favre helmet that is listed is not from the 1992 season. It could be from the 1993 season, however there a couple of inconsistencies there as well.

Favre wore a leather wrapped front bumper in 1992. The helmet on the auction shows a rubber bumper. Also the positioning of the factory warning label on the rear of the helmet is not in the same position as what Favre wore in 1992. The helmet in the auction shows the factory warning label roughly a 1/4 to 1/2" from the rear chinstrap snap. Pictures of the rear of Favre playing in several games throughout the entire season show the warning label closer to the center stripe and roughly 2 full inches from the rear chinstrap snap. This factory warning label is on the helmet when it is new and was not removed by the team and replaced with a colored label like they are today.

Find me a photo of Favre in 1992 wearing a rubber front bumper. The two photos listed in the auction of the helmet show a leather bumper. Also show me a photo of the warning label in 1992 positioned 1/4" from the snap.

[helmets]

Re: Favre Helmet - SCP - Not a 1992 Favre as listed



Here is the bumper comparison as noted above. You can see the auction helmet has the rubber bumper while Favre's 1992 helmet has a leather style bumper

[helmets]

Re: Favre Helmet - SCP - Not a 1992 Favre as listed



Here is the position of the factory warning label - which was on the helmet for the entire season. The auction shows the warning label within a half inch from the rear chinstrap snap - while the factory warning label on the helmet Favre wore is roughly two inches away from the snap.

[helmets]

Re: Favre Helmet - SCP - Not a 1992 Favre as listed

Another concern that I had with this helmet is the removal and replacement of the #4 Dymo Tape identifier on the rear of the helmet. There is shading on the helmet which suggests that a longer two-digit number was removed from the helmet - after it had been worn and dirty with a shorter one-digit #4 tape.

Who did this? Why was it done? Was the helmet reissued to Favre without proper cleaning and reconditioning and the GB Equipment staff changed the number? Or was the two-digit number removed and changed when the helmet was gifted to Dave Rahn?

I own several Packers helmets where the Dymo Tape looks like it had been through a war - on linemen and linebacker helmets, yet the number was not replaced - so I don't think the "the original #4 identifier was damaged and a new one was applied in a different location" theory holds water.

After seeing some inconsistencies on a couple of the other helmets from that collection, one needs to take a closer look and start asking questions.

[bgakladd]

Re: Favre Helmet - SCP - Not a 1992 Favre as listed

Backside pic of Favre's 1992 Packers helmet which shows the black dyno #4 tape in a completely different location. So is the warning label.

[helmets]

Re: Favre Helmet - SCP - Not a 1992 Favre as listed

Yes, the auction started out as a 1992, then the listing was modified with a disclaimer stating that it was a 1993. Then after saying roughly a week at $2300 it was changed back to a 1992. Along with the change back to 1992, three additional photos were added to justify the 1992 dat: One of the interior warranty label showing a 1991 date and the others showing the top clips of the helmet showing 1992 dates. It then shot up to $3400.

The difference in value between a 1992 and a 1993 Favre, in my opinion, is severl thousand dollars. Next to the SBXXXI helmet, I would consider the 1992 helmet as the most desireable of them all - his inaugural helmet with the Packers and the start of the Packers "dynasty" during his years there.

It is closer to his 1993 helmet, but has a couple issues there as well. i was more interested in the helmet when it was modified or "corrected" to a 1993. However to pay a 1992 price for a 1993 helmet that is not 100% solid doesn't make sense. Then to have to explain all of this and justify the helmet down the road when the helmet and paperwork sold as a 1992 is silly.

It could very well have been an extra helmet that was made to look like a Favre and then gifted to the owner.

We see this time and time again. I did a quick search on the Wesley Walls helmet. Couldn't find a photo of Walls without the high chinstrap snaps. Again a quick search. Same with the Cunningham. Didn't like the positioning of the upper chinstrap snaps.

[kneerat]

Re: Favre Helmet - SCP - Not a 1992 Favre as listed

Here is my take:

The helmet is definitely not a 1992 helmet. SCP must have dated it to 1992 due to the 92 clips, but obviously the clips were simply carried over to 1993. That doesn't bother me at all. As for the 4 dymo. The cold and dry air from cold weather games tends to crack and damage the dymo. Favre was in the Pro Bowl that season and that is most likely where the 49ers worker obtained the helmet. Also, the facemask is correct, as it was made in 1992. The replaced No. 4 dymo was probably replaced to make sure it wasn't damaged for the Pro Bowl. Does anyone have a pic of the helmet back Favre wore in Feb 1994 in the 93 Pro Bowl? I bet that is this helmet. Thoughts?

[bgakladd]

Re: Favre Helmet - SCP - Not a 1992 Favre as listed

Here is my take:

The helmet is definitely not a 1992 helmet. SCP must have dated it to 1992 due to the 92 clips, but obviously the clips were simply carried over to 1993. That doesn't bother me at all. As for the 4 dymo. The cold and dry air from cold weather games tends to crack and damage the dymo. Favre was in the Pro Bowl that season and that is most likely where the 49ers worker obtained the helmet. Also, the facemask is correct, as it was made in 1992. The replaced No. 4 dymo was probably replaced to make sure it wasn't damaged for the Pro Bowl. Does anyone have a pic of the helmet back Favre wore in Feb 1994 in the 93 Pro Bowl? I bet that is this helmet. Thoughts?

1994 NFC playoffs Packers vs. Lions (1993) season has Favre wearing a helmet a think matches pretty good. Fuzzy images but it looks close. #4 dyno number and front bumper look from the side looks good.

[kneerat]

Re: Favre Helmet - SCP - Not a 1992 Favre as listed

I saw the same thing for that lions playoff game. That dymo looks in the same position to me.

[helmets]

Re: Favre Helmet - SCP - Not a 1992 Favre as listed

The side clips are Schutt on Favre's '93 helmet. The helmet in the auction had Riddell side clips like he wore in 1992. In addition, Favre switched to leather jawpads through the entire 1993 season. The SCP helmet had vinyl.

In addition, I have some high res photos from the 1993 season including the Playoff game against the Lions. There is not the wear exhibited on the SCP helmet on any photos. The factory warning label on the photos from late season and playoffs is intact while the SCP helmet is badly beaten. Same with the gouges on the front of the helmet.

I own several Packer helmets from this era - same model of helmet, mask, etc. the dymo tape is positioned the same as is the NFL shield. Position of that tape on a blurry photo is tough to justify a purchase of almost $8,000. Even worse with the questions on the other helmets in thay Rahn collection.

Like I said - closer to a 1993, but I have concerns about that too...

[kneerat]

Re: Favre Helmet - SCP - Not a 1992 Favre as listed

Helmets,

Could you please post images of the green dymo tape on the Packers helmets from this era that you have in your collection?

[kneerat]

Re: Favre Helmet - SCP - Not a 1992 Favre as listed

Also, helmets. How were you able to determine your claim about the side clips on the Favre helmet?

[helmets]

Re: Favre Helmet - SCP - Not a 1992 Favre as listed

Also, helmets. How were you able to determine your claim about the side clips on the Favre helmet?

By looking at them.

The Riddell clips have two holes on them. The Schutt clips have just one. The Packers in the late 80's and early 90's often used Riddell clips on the sides of their helmet which enabled them to have a bit of adjustment - with the mask inwards or protruding further outwards - depending on which hole the screw was used in. If you look at the SCP helmet, you will notice that the helmet has Riddell clips on the sides - like Favre wore during the 1992 season.

In 1993, Favre's helmet had Schutt clips on all four positions - both on the sides and the top.

[helmets]

Re: Favre Helmet - SCP - Not a 1992 Favre as listed

Helmets,

Could you please post images of the green dymo tape on the Packers helmets from this era that you have in your collection?

The Packers used Green, Blue, and Black dymo tape as identifiers on the rear of the helmets during this period. I have tried in the past to figure it out, however there seems to be no justification as to why. The only thing I can come up with is that the equipment staff bought a Dymo label maker set and it came with a roll of each color.

All I would really like is one photo match of this helmet. I was willing to pay much more for the helmet than it sold for, however after pouring over everything for more than a week, I was not comfortable. There are many characteristics of the SCP helmet that should able to be matched. Next to the badly beaten factory warning label there is a red scuff mark. On the G logo there is a royal mark. On the front of the helmet there are numerous deep gouges.

Favre only wore a Schutt AiR Power the first two years with the Packers prior to switching to Riddell for the 1994 season. We know it isn't a 1992 helmet because of the front bumper and the positioning of the factory warning label. That leaves just one year - 1993. With all of the photos of Favre that are available, it shouldn't be too hard...

Did you buy the helmet Chris? Are we going to see it down the road with HA?

[bgakladd]

Re: Favre Helmet - SCP - Not a 1992 Favre as listed

Here is my take:

The helmet is definitely not a 1992 helmet. SCP must have dated it to 1992 due to the 92 clips, but obviously the clips were simply carried over to 1993. That doesn't bother me at all. As for the 4 dymo. The cold and dry air from cold weather games tends to crack and damage the dymo. Favre was in the Pro Bowl that season and that is most likely where the 49ers worker obtained the helmet. Also, the facemask is correct, as it was made in 1992. The replaced No. 4 dymo was probably replaced to make sure it wasn't damaged for the Pro Bowl. Does anyone have a pic of the helmet back Favre wore in Feb 1994 in the 93 Pro Bowl? I bet that is this helmet. Thoughts?

Chris might be right about the helmet being his 1994 (1993 season) Pro Bowl helmet. 1994 Pro Bowl cards show him with what looks like white vinyl jaw pads and another card showing a longer tan colored facemask clip same color as the auction. It is possible the 1993 helmet was worn for the 1994 playoffs with leather jaw pads and Schutt clips and recertified for the Pro Bowl with changes to the jaw pads and clips. The royal blue mark could have came from the Cowboys game after the Lions in the playoffs. Another pic shows what looks like the same creased area on his 1993 helmet like the auction helmet has.