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View Full Version : What is with ESM and ASI's "2 day sales"



jake33
01-17-2007, 09:27 AM
Not that those 2 companies don't ahve the right to do what they want but I don't really get why they do that.

I work professionally in marketing, which was also my major in college, and I tell businesses to NOT have sales because it will eventually de-value your product and people become "trained" to wait for your next sale. It is like when auto dealerships always build a FALSE sense of reasona nd urgency to come in "this weekend" to get the big sale, so you are telling me I can't come monday and get it?

I really don't understand why they do it? I assume that with some of their prices they mark up so they can mark down to a normal price. But when you do that it hurts your reptutation in the long run as well, because you fail to have price intergrity.

I look at a guy like Jim yackel and I am very impressed by his business plan. Whenever I have bought from him, I usually jsut say "what's the price" and we go from their.

Overall, I'd like to see less used cars salesmen in this hobby and more "McDonald's" in the hobby, becuase lets face it in game used hobby, nobody has the EXACT same item as you do which makes it unique and one of a kind.

hblakewolf
01-17-2007, 09:55 AM
Is it just me, or does a huge red flag go up on the ASI sale when the first 4 jerseys they list are 2004 and 2005 Yankees superstar shirts without any type of Steiner paperwork? Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's a bit hard to believe they have an agreement with these players to obtain their jerseys when Steiner has THE exclusive agreement.

Just my thoughts......

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

JETEFAN
01-17-2007, 11:01 AM
Here we go again, do all of us really believe that Steiner is the only one getting their hands on Yankees items? Legal or not , take them to jail or whatever..... I guarantee you there are legit Yankees items out there not from Steiner. There are people on this forum who are questioning ASI and others, who at one time or another;) offered on this very forum "Legit Yankees" items for sale with no Steiner cert. Maybe ASI has a legit Jeter gamer you can pick up for 5K just as good as Steiners 8-10K. Pay more or pay less for the same item, it's up to you. Do your homework!!!

George

ahuff
01-17-2007, 11:52 AM
What does concern me is that I see the Cano comes with a Lampson Letter.

I have quit purchasing items from ASI and seriously am considering not purchasing from ESM. From auction activities, I've seen, I believe far more of their items are not coming from the athlete. Even if most do, the shear number of the same style jersey that they are selling makes me wonder if they are even worn.

hblakewolf
01-17-2007, 11:55 AM
George-
I've done my homework and conclude that the EXACT same 2005, 2006 Yankees superstar jerseys offered by Steiner are also availbale on a regular basis on Ebay and several auction houses; same Majestic tagging, same year tagging, same size, showing wear, however, at a fraction of the price of Steiner and also void of any Steiner certs/holograms.

I've been associated for over 20 years with this "hobby" and would not even consider touching a recent Yankees jersey without the Steiner certs. Considering there's no visual difference between those with Steiner certs. and without, if you're comfortable buying a perfectly tagged Yankees "game-ready" jersey or a "game worn" jersey from ASI/auction house that appears to have wear and the correct tagging, by all means proceed accordingly.

As a side note, I find it interesting that you see all of the Yankees "game ready" jerseys, yet rarely see "game ready" batting practice/BP's. Why is this?

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

JETEFAN
01-17-2007, 02:34 PM
Howard,

After a much needed vacation, I have returned quite mellow and have decided that I would no longer let Steiner issues raise my stress level, so I will conclude with the following. With Steiner flooding the market with Yankees items, and their lack of knowledge as to who, what when and where, of what they sell, it has made sellers of non Steiner Yankees items much more bold and aggressive in the selling of there items. To believe or even think that the only source of "real" Yankees items is Steiner, is ridiculous. There are both players and or employees taking these things out the back door. Right or wrong it's a fact, if not there never would have been any Yankees items avaliable B4 Steiner. I agree with you 100% your odds are better with Steiner. But there are good and legit Yankees non-Steiner items out there. As for BP items, if you are taking a risk in obtaining Yankees items from players, employees etc., why risk it on BP items when you can have gamers?

George

allstarsplus
01-17-2007, 03:39 PM
Howard,

After a much needed vacation, I have returned quite mellow and have decided that I would no longer let Steiner issues raise my stress level, so I will conclude with the following. With Steiner flooding the market with Yankees items, and their lack of knowledge as to who, what when and where, of what they sell, it has made sellers of non Steiner Yankees items much more bold and aggressive in the selling of there items. To believe or even think that the only source of "real" Yankees items is Steiner, is ridiculous. There are both players and or employees taking these things out the back door. Right or wrong it's a fact, if not there never would have been any Yankees items avaliable B4 Steiner. I agree with you 100% your odds are better with Steiner. But there are good and legit Yankees non-Steiner items out there. As for BP items, if you are taking a risk in obtaining Yankees items from players, employees etc., why risk it on BP items when you can have gamers?

George George - Hope your vacation was great! You are playing with statistical probability when you are betting on a back door jersey as you describe it. Yours could be real, but it is statistical "Russian roulette". Here's 2 more Jeter's without Steiner provenance on top of the other 6 we identified on the market place in the last 2 months. No way there can be that many "back door" real ones.

With the current list from ASI:

Game Used Jerseys - Baseball
Alex Rodriguez 2004 Home - $7500
Hideki Matsui 2005 Home - $5000
Derek Jeter 2005 Home - $5000
Derek Jeter 2006 Home - $5000
Robinson Cano 2005 Home - Lampson - $4000
Gary Sheffield 2004 Home - $3000


As Howard points out, they all have the right tagging, fonts, wear, wash tags, etc. so the only difference is the Provenance.

Everyone is able to make their own informed decisions and come up with their own opinions.

I won't purchase non-Steiner Yankees jerseys on current players and that is my decision.

Andrew

hblakewolf
01-17-2007, 03:54 PM
Andrew-
Let's not forget that there are quite a few Jeter's on ebay every month with all the correct tags and are also being sold legitimately as "team-issued" or "Non-game worn". Add these to your list of 6 or 8 that are being sold as game worn and now you have 10, 2005 home jerseys that have been produced for Jeter THAT HAVE MADE THEIR WAY TO THE HOBBY!! Also, let’s not forget about the handful of Steiner “non-game worn” Jeters that have been sold. Don’t think for a second that some of these have mysteriously reentered the hobby as game worn, however, void of the original Steiner cert. It appears there is an endless supply, and based on this, who would buy a 2005 or 2006 Jeter "gamer" without Steiner certs? The only exception(s) might be a gamer with a personal LOA from Jeter or a club official who donated it to a charity or similar activity.

Just my thoughts.....

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

JETEFAN
01-17-2007, 04:19 PM
George - Hope your vacation was great! You are playing with statistical probability when you are betting on a back door jersey as you describe it. Yours could be real, but it is statistical "Russian roulette". Here's 2 more Jeter's without Steiner provenance on top of the other 6 we identified on the market place in the last 2 months. No way there can be that many "back door" real ones.

With the current list from ASI:

Game Used Jerseys - Baseball
Alex Rodriguez 2004 Home - $7500
Hideki Matsui 2005 Home - $5000
Derek Jeter 2005 Home - $5000
Derek Jeter 2006 Home - $5000
Robinson Cano 2005 Home - Lampson - $4000
Gary Sheffield 2004 Home - $3000


As Howard points out, they all have the right tagging, fonts, wear, wash tags, etc. so the only difference is the Provenance.

Everyone is able to make their own informed decisions and come up with their own opinions.

I won't purchase non-Steiner Yankees jerseys on current players and that is my decision.

Andrew

Andrew,
I agree, it all boils down to what you want to spend for that Provenance. My point is simply that in my opinion Steiner is not a slam dunk as far as what you are getting, I have seen too many botch ups as far as gamers, issued, replica's etc. involving Steiner. As for the numbers, they only do not add up if we all "assume" that everything Steiner offers is what they say it is! From what I have seen it is not ie; (Replica Giambi they offer as Gamer) But I do agree with you the odds are in your favor with a Steiner item, there is a lot of garbage out there. I still however have to support all the long time Yankees collectors who have great and legit non-Steiner items being crucified every time they offer one of there items. With this humble and personal opinion, I officially end my Steiner issues (Hopefully:rolleyes: ) I just think that being the "exclusive Yankees provider" they can and should do a much better job with product knowledge, with their prices they owe it to their customers. Andrew, I know you and I have gone back and forth on this issue (nothing personal) I think we both have valid points! Bottom line, do your homework no matter who's signing the paperwork.
George

Yankwood
01-17-2007, 04:24 PM
And you are also playing "Russian roulette" with items from Steiner.

Case 1: "Won" a game used Chuck Knoblauch bat in an auction thru Steiner website. When I received the bat it was an all black Louisville model number escapes me but NOT a T141 which Knobby almost always used in games. Instead this model had the number 47 on the knob. I got it for what I considered a good price so I didn't bother to return it but I really didn't need a Shane Spencer bat. I kept it anyway.

Case 2: "Won" a game used Jim Leyritz bat again thru Steiner website. Seems OK but I wondered why "BELL" is written in silver on the knob. Who the hell is BELL anyway? Maybe it was Leyritz, maybe not. I'm not sure. But I do have one that I know was Leyritz because I got it the old fashioned "back door" way. Please, no jokes.

Case 3: I received a mailing this week from Steiner which stated that a Mattingly game used jersey was being offered with no reserve. The kicker is that the tagging and uniform itself is incomplete but it must have been his because it was from '95. It was also a sine 48. I'm not an expert on Mattingly jerseys so I probably should not assume that he is not a 48. Now it looks as though it's just being offered as a jersey with number 23 on it. I'm glad that it was changed but how many have NOT been. No accusations here, probably through oversite.

Case 4: Obtained a Luis Sojo bat the same way again. This time, the handle taping and amount of tar lead me to believe this was used by Jorge Posada. My gain, but once again not what it was supposed to have been.

George is making the point, which we all know by now, that just because somebody's name is on an item, and certified by Steiner, does not mean anything.

I have gotten good service from Steiner so this is not a camplaint as I'm sure they would have rectified the situation. I'm just pointing out some examples which back my friend George.

JETEFAN
01-17-2007, 04:31 PM
And you are also playing "Russian roulette" with items from Steiner.

Case 1: "Won" a game used Chuck Knoblauch bat in an auction thru Steiner website. When I received the bat it was an all black Louisville model number escapes me but NOT a T141 which Knobby almost always used in games. Instead this model had the number 47 on the knob. I got it for what I considered a good price so I didn't bother to return it but I really didn't need a Shane Spencer bat. I kept it anyway.

Case 2: "Won" a game used Jim Leyritz bat again thru Steiner website. Seems OK but I wondered why "BELL" is written in silver on the knob. Who the hell is BELL anyway? Maybe it was Leyritz, maybe not. I'm not sure. But I do have one that I know was Leyritz because I got it the old fashioned "back door" way. Please, no jokes.

Case 3: I received a mailing this week from Steiner which stated that a Mattingly game used jersey was being offered with no reserve. The kicker is that the tagging and uniform itself is incomplete but it must have been his because it was from '95. It was also a sine 48. I'm not an expert on Mattingly jerseys so I probably should not assume that he is not a 48. Now it looks as though it's just being offered as a jersey with number 23 on it. I'm glad that it was changed but how many have NOT been. No accusations here, probably through oversite.

Case 4: Obtained a Luis Sojo bat the same way again. This time, the handle taping and amount of tar lead me to believe this was used by Jorge Posada. My gain, but once again not what it was supposed to have been.

George is making the point, which we all know by now, that just because somebody's name is on an item, and certified by Steiner, does not mean anything.

I have gotten good service from Steiner so this is not a camplaint as I'm sure they would have rectified the situation. I'm just pointing out some examples which back my friend George.

Thanks Yankwood, 7 more guy's and we can field a team!! I got 1st base!:D

allstarsplus
01-17-2007, 05:31 PM
Thanks Yankwood, 7 more guy's and we can field a team!! I got 1st base!:D When on the subject of current players game used jerseys, you are playing "russian roulette", and I stand by that statement.

Yankwood is correct with the older stuff, tagging removed items, and some of their bats. You have to do your homework, but Steiner has shown where errors were made to take care of the problem.

I think we could field a team of 100 here that would agree with me on the subject as I clearly referred to as current players Yankees game used jerseys you are dealing with statistical probability versus legitimate game used current players on George's "back door" deal.

Andrew

camarokids
01-17-2007, 06:33 PM
damn jake, this thread sure got jacked , I think they are trying to generate some much needed hype . I will not buy from either ASI or ESM . I wouldn't buy from them whether 2 day or 100 day sale .....

jake33
01-17-2007, 08:31 PM
A funny thing with ESM/ASI is back in Feb. 2003 I offered ASI $700 for a Kenyatta Walker game used Bucs jersye from the NFC title game. They wrote back and told me that price was an insult, and they were about to accept and offer for $1500.

The next thing I knew, in about 2-3 weeks THAT very jersey was on ebay and I ended up winning it for $378. It is nice becuase I do have a photo match of it and I still have it today. But every time I see the jersey I thinkof that story....