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View Full Version : Manny Ramirez Game Used Jersey on ebay ESM



obeyone10
01-19-2007, 05:25 PM
I sent ESM a message on Ebay with my opinions on marketing item number 290073720912 as a 2006 game used jersey. I hope everyone on this forum knows that the team tags their game used jerseys. Manny didn't even signed it game used. The fact that Mears authenticated this jersey blows my mind. What is Troy and David doing over there at Mears?? ESM...If you're going to include a letter of authenticity, please take clear pictures so we can read their notes. I hope we don't see a hundred of these jerseys floating around spring training time.
Bryan Oberle
obeyone10@aol.com

skipcareyisfat
01-19-2007, 05:30 PM
Bryan,
What do the team tags look like? I didn't know they did that.
Thanks,
Jason

kingjammy24
01-19-2007, 06:44 PM
bryan oberle, are you referring to the strip tagging?

anyway, why does the worksheet say the jersey received a final grade of A8 (5 + 3) whereas the cover sheet says it's an A5?

honestly, i would think mears would've given it an A10. any time something has any sort of athlete provenance (as this one does with the MR24 holo),
it seems to automatically get an A10.

rudy.

obeyone10
01-22-2007, 01:19 AM
Yes, the team strip tags each jersey that comes through the lockerroom. Should have size, players number and two digit year under the majestic tag. There are a few game used Red Sox jerseys on ebay from '05 and '06. Still haven't heard back from ESM on the matter.
B.O.

kingjammy24
01-23-2007, 04:57 PM
what's the difference between the ESM Ramirez and an authentic jersey sold on redsox.mlb.com ? i can't see any. 0062's have been found in retail stores. size 56 is available in retail stores. anyone?

anyway, i concur with b.oberle that it's missing the customary strip tag.

2006:
http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/5295/ortiz5hx.jpg

rudy.

obeyone10
01-24-2007, 02:22 PM
The Red Sox strip tag every game used jersey. Players' Number, Size, and Year. GUU had a great thread a while back w/ pictures from game used jerseys.
Wouldn't you think Mears should know about each teams tagging system? This is a $150 jersey w/ a $100 Manny signature.

http://i9.ebayimg.com/03/i/07/9a/8d/a2_0.JPG (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110025574785&indexURL=3#ebayphotohosting)http://i19.ebayimg.com/05/i/07/a2/e0/c0_0.JPG (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110025574763&indexURL=4#ebayphotohosting)

Bryan O

kingjammy24
01-25-2007, 04:16 PM
re: troy's recent explanation of grading this ramirez.

"A question was asked of why Ebay item, 290073720912, was given the grade of A5. The jersey presented some difficulties in grading that I will explain here:
1. It came from Manny Ramirez marketing company
2. It did not have the standard Red Sox strip tagging
Under our grading criteria, it would have been awarded 5 points for provenance. Bushing when examining it noticed the lack of strip tags, and originally took off 2 points with an initial grade of A8."

on the original mears worksheets, it states "Properly tagged: Yes". futhermore, nowhere on the mears paperwork does it note the lack of a strip tag.
if bushing noticed the lack of a strip tag, then why didn't he indicate this on the worksheets? why did he indicate that the tagging was correct?

"Over time we have examined several jerseys which originated from Manny Ramirez’s marketing company that were different than the team issued jerseys from the same era."

doesn't that tell you something then about jerseys from manny's company? it's well known that many of those jerseys show implausible use. the conclusions are obvious.

"The discussion and final grade was not awarded until several days after the initial examination."

so during the initial examination, bushing believed the jersey was properly tagged? that's a little frightening.

"Although the proper grade was awarded, the additional discussions were not written down on the worksheet, thus the data entry person did not add our final findings to the letter."

the final letter had the proper grade of A5. it seems the data entry person did get the grade correct on the letter. if the additional discussions weren't written down on the worksheet, then how did the data entry person know to correctly write A5 instead of A8 on the letter?

"A corrected worksheet and new final letter listing the inconsistencies of the strip tag has been supplied to Elite."

i'm sure they'll forward that on to the buyer who just paid $676.00 for the jersey. maybe they'll have a chance to exercise mears' buyback guarantee.

"A copy of this notice has been emailed to Elite with a request to post this on the Ebay listing."

day late and a dollar short. the listing ended this morning.

"I would like to thank several hobbyists for bringing this matter to my attention."

it's unfortunate that it wasn't ESM or bushing that brought this to your attention, but rather the members of a forum that your own employees have described as "nothing but negativity and bomb-throwing".

"This example serves as a good chance to discuss the grading and authentication of player’s marketing firm jerseys which do not match the standard team issued jerseys of teammates. I would welcome feedback and suggestions on how to grade jerseys when these discrepancies occur."

ok how's this: don't solely rely on a player's word. especially ramirez's.

at any rate, this whole exercise was just more of mears' sloppyness for me: bushing didn't immediately notice it wasn't properly tagged (how many 2006 red sox jerseys have you guys done? at least a good handful. they must be in your "database"), he filled out an incorrect worksheet, the letter was incorrect, the data entry person typed out and sent out the wrong letter, etc. call it "throwing bombs" but i fail to see anything that's untrue.

rudy.

RobSteinmetz
01-25-2007, 04:29 PM
Two quick points. Although every 2006 Red Sox jersey I have seen has strip tagging, there were some 2005's that did NOT have the strip tag on the tail. This has been discussed in this forum previously, with photo evidence to back that up. Additionally, it's important to note that the Red Sox do not apply the strip tagging to their jerseys...they come from Majestic that way.

kingjammy24
01-25-2007, 05:04 PM
rob,

could this jersey be a 2005? it was said to be from 2006 apparently solely because it's a size 56. i understand the thinking but it's a big leap to determine a year based on size alone. ramirez supposedly wore a 54 prior to 2006. it doesn't seem unlikely he, at some point during 2005, could've tried a 56. had this piece been deemed to be from 2005, there'd be far less controversy.

too bad we don't know if there's some manufacturing date information present somewhere on the wash tag. boy wouldn't that be great.

at any rate, at this point it's interesting that player provenance is actually detrimental to a piece. that is, i'd rather buy a ramirez gamer from kim stigall than manny ramirez.

rudy.

RobSteinmetz
01-25-2007, 05:12 PM
Rudy,

All good points...I don't think it is far-fetched to think this jersey could be a 2005. Using Pujols as an example, he switched from size 48 to size 50 during the 2004 season. With that said, I don't think it's impossible to think that Manny might have switched from a 54 to a 56 late in 2005. Regardless, with the quantity of Ramirez jerseys out there, why would someone spend their hard-earned money on a jersey like this when so many better examples exist? Seems crazy to me.