Juan Iglesias and Joe Rivera- beware

[dougiedshow]

I want to make fellow collectors and dealers aware of the what are at best questionable practices and at worst dishonest actions from Juan Iglesias and Joe Rivera. Many of you may be familiar with Juan and Joe, as they are active sellers of "game used" memorabilia. I actively purchase game used memorabilia, both for my personal collection and for resale. In this particular situation, I partnered with another buyer to purchase two game used bats from Joe and Juan. They claimed that these two bats came directly from a former MLB player, who obtained items from teammates throughout his career. These bats did not have PSA, MLB, Steiner or similar authentication. I purchased these bats were for resale purposes, not for my personal collection. Anytime I purchase items for resale, I make sure that the sellers will back the authenticity prior to completing the purchase.


In this situation, my partner emailed them to confirm they would accept returns if the bats did not pass authentication. We were assured by Joe Rivera that "Authentication is not a problem at all, we will stand behind everything that comes from us." Subsequently, these bats were sent to PSA/DNA for authentication and both were rejected as game used by Taube at PSA. In John's words "I don't think they are game used, maybe BP and that may be liberal." We immediately notified Joe and asked to return the bats for a full refund. We have emailed back and forth with Joe Rivera and Juan Iglesias for over 2 months, only to be told they disagree with PSA's assessment. They even went as far as to suggest that we send them to MEARS for authentication and bring them to the hobby that way. I think it is clear to all serious bat collectors that PSA is the accepted industry leader for bat authentications and we would not be interested in selling an item as authentic, without disclosing it has failed John Taube's assessment.


The end result is that we have two bats that have failed PSA and Juan and Joe are not willing to refund our purchase. They feel that sending these bats around to other authenticators, until they pass, is an acceptable practice. Game Used Universe was created to provide transparency to the hobby and protect potential buyers from such practices. Further, sellers who privately sell a bat that fails authentication is not the end of the world. I have personally sold a bat that failed PSA. However, I made it right with the buyer. To refuse a refund, especially when those terms were agreed to prior to the purchase, is unacceptable. At this point, I would not recommend purchasing anything from either Juan Iglesias or Joe Rivera. At best, I feel we were unintentionally scammed and they have not followed through on their word. However, based on some other feedback I have seen, I'm not even sure it is unintentional.


If you have concerns about items you have purchased from either Joe Rivera or Juan Iglesias, please feel free to contact me directly. I will be happy to share any additional information you may need. As far as these two bats are concerned, I am not planning to bring them into the hobby without full disclosure of PSA's opinion. So at least they are in good hands....



Dougiedshow@aol.com



Doug Reiser

[Dach0sen0ne]

Isn't Juan banned from the forum for a similar issue with a Pujols bat?

[gorilla777]

Isn't Juan banned from the forum for a similar issue with a Pujols bat?

I believe there was some issue with a Pujols bat...

[Phil316]

I have dealt with Juan but never this Joe fellow. Always had good dealings with Juan. I am disapointed to hear this.

It sucks that this kinda stuff happens. Hopefully you guys can straighten things out.

[3arod13]

I too have dealt with Juan Iglesias, but not Joe Rivera (don't even know who he is). Experience was good, with no problems at all.

I think it hits home for all of us when this happens to someone by someone we all know in the Game Used community. Honesty and trust is important!

If an agreement was made as Doug stated, then it should have been honored! We're not talking about a deal that was made with a seller on Ebay that Doug doesn't know.

Truly unfortunate!

[memorabiliaunlimited]

this happened to me as well with a bat from juan. was told the same exact thing as the OP. he refused a return and i had to file a claim through paypal. since i had a letter from PSA saying that game use could not be confirmed, paypal refunded my purchase price, but i was out the PSA authentication fee and the return shipping. was great to deal with up until that point.

[yanks12025]

Can we see the bats? thanks

[dougiedshow]

I debated posting the bats in the thread, but that's really irrelevant. I wanted to keep the focus on the dishonesty of Joe Rivera and Juan Iglesias. We were assured we could return the bats, if they failed authenticity. They failed PSA's opinion of authenticity and the seller has not stuck to their word. Furthermore, they encouraged us to disregard PSA's opinion and seek someone that will authenticate them. I am happy to discuss details privately with you, if you have similar concerns and need additional information. Thanks.

[yankees506]

Any "bad" bats should be posted so that others can be made aware of exactly what to look out for. While I'm sure we are all greatful for the heads up, it takes away from the education of the thread if we cant see exactly what you are warning us about.

[memorabiliaunlimited]

i dont have my bat that was rejected by PSA anymore (it is back with juan), but it was a LVS natural flame treated harper rookie year bat with minimal use. when i sent it back to juan, it had the PSA sticker on the barrel top, which i am assuming will be removed if he attempts to resell it. he told me to send it to mears after PSA rejected it, and offered to pay for it. i could not in good faith do that. if someone was offered or recently purchased a similar bat directly from him or a third party that had one of his letters, i would be glad to take a look and try to see if it was the one i had (there was one white scuff mark on the barrel that i think i would remember if i saw again).

i will also note that i did purchase a bat from juan that did pass PSA. as taube told me when i asked him why my bat did not pass, "have to take the good with the bad".

[Padres_98]

So you are making a riff about getting scammed and you knew it was possible that the bats would not be authentic.

Next time don't buy without bats being Authenticated!!!

End of Story. You live and learn. Move on

[metsbats]

I believe there was some issue with a Pujols bat...


Yes Ben. Here's that thread.

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=44443&highlight=Juan+Iglesias

[ChrisCavalier]

So you are making a riff about getting scammed and you knew it was possible that the bats would not be authentic.

Next time don't buy without bats being Authenticated!!!

End of Story. You live and learn. Move on
Although I thought about not commenting on the post quoted above, I feel compelled to do so.

Obviously, not every item that is available in the secondary market is already authenticated. For whatever reason (maybe cost, etc), a seller may not want to have their items authenticated prior to selling them. If a buyer does not want to relegate themselves to buying only authenticated items (many buyers do not want to limit themselves) then they will inevitably run across items that are not already authenticated.

In this case, the buyer asked if the items could be returned they it did not pass authentication. This would be the equivalent of a warranty if you were buying an appliance from a store, etc. The reason a buyer gets a warranty is because there is a known possibility that something could be wrong with the product.

The buyer then paid to ship the bat to the authenticator and paid for the authentication under the stated condition that the item could be returned if it did not pass. Then, when they did not pass, the buyer was told basically to pound sand and that the items could not be returned even after they failed authentication.

I just have to say that I think your comments to "…live and learn" and "Move on" are not based on understanding the dynamics of the transaction. Or, if you did understand the dynamics then I'm guessing you didn't think it through before posting. To let sellers get away with this type of behavior would certainly not be something that would be good for the hobby and would open the door for other buyers to fall victim to the same selling tactics in the future.

Lastly, it is my understanding that there is another buyer who is a GUU member that had a similar situation with these sellers. I hope that GUU member posts here as well since this issue with the type of use on the bats the sellers have sold is clearly not an isolated incident.

-Chris

[Phil316]

I for one can say I will not be spending any more of my money with Juan. If you tell someone you will take a return and then flatly refuse, that's just not right. To me that is very unethical in my books.

I do not collect bats but from what I gather PSA is the top as far as grading bats. So if it fails PSA is that the end of the line ? I mean if the top company doesn't pass it that should be it. Bats should be returned no questions asked.

[ndevlin]

So you are making a riff about getting scammed and you knew it was possible that the bats would not be authentic.

Next time don't buy without bats being Authenticated!!!

End of Story. You live and learn. Move on


You only buy bats that are authenticated?

[danesei@yahoo.com]

One of the members posted about a Cabrera bat from Juan in another thread. Juan said it was a rookie gamer. Taube said it was a BP bat. MEARS said it was a 9.5. Looking at the knob, it looks like it wasn't written by Cabrera (doesn't match his signature inscription style from 2003), and the barrel was absolutely demolished without any blue transfers or much of what could be called seam impressions.

[3arod13]

One of the members posted about a Cabrera bat from Juan in another thread. Juan said it was a rookie gamer. Taube said it was a BP bat. MEARS said it was a 9.5. Looking at the knob, it looks like it wasn't written by Cabrera (doesn't match his signature inscription style from 2003), and the barrel was absolutely demolished without any blue transfers or much of what could be called seam impressions.

I think this is a perfect example of what makes the authentication process frustrating for many. However, many forget that all authentication service say that "it is our opinion this is genuine." Opinion, not fact, and that is what you are paying for (although we know that's not how it is supposed to work and people refuse to accept that). Most look at these LOAs as a guarantee their item is genuine, which as all of us have proven at one time or another, this isn't always the case.

Do they always get it right? Of course not. With the amount of stuff they authenticate, there is no way they can take the time and effort to do the due diligence required to ensure a piece is authentic, as many of us do on our own individual stuff. Especially if your sending something to them without any documentation at all.

With the amount of bad stuff out there, I think the authentication services is the next best thing out there and those LOAs give collectors (less knowledgeable) somewhat some comfort to just have one, than without one. Not sure if they will ever go away, unless more and more companies and/or services get shut down by the FBI for authenticating and selling fake stuff. And believe me, if many don't think they're being watched right now, they are wrong!

For me, I do like having an LOA (John Taube PSA) for my Game Used stuff and don't mind paying the money even though I have solid documentation and proof of provenance. When I send my stuff to John, I provide him plenty of research and documentation with my item. I do the homework first to ensure my stuff is legit, then I send it to John. Ok, I can hear you saying to yourself, "Tony, if you did all the research and have solid documentation and proof of provenance for your item, then why pay the money just to have a letter from PSA?" Well, for me it's pretty simple, I like having the PSA LOA's with my stuff and don't mind paying the money for it. Plus, I like the description write-ups.

Now, back to the original post topic. I emailed Juan and offered him to provided me a response to post, but haven't heard back from him. He did say this in his first email to me, "For the record , I didn't screw anyone. I just need another authenticator to look at the bat and then I will refund the money if he flags it. Taube says the use is BP. How can you determine that. It's impossible. I'm not a big fan of Taube and I never sold that bat with the condition of taube's approval." I think when things are purchased, there shouldn't be conditions like this, for this exact reason.

I think it's in Juan's best interest to just resolve this matter by taking the bats back and refunding Doug his money. In the end, word travels. One may get away with doing this for a while. But as it happens more and more, one will find themselves having a difficult time selling things with a really bad reputation.

[memorabiliaunlimited]

Now, back to the original post topic. I emailed Juan and offered him to provided me a response to post, but haven't heard back from him. He did say this in his first email to me, "For the record , I didn't screw anyone. I just need another authenticator to look at the bat and then I will refund the money if he flags it. Taube says the use is BP. How can you determine that. It's impossible. I'm not a big fan of Taube and I never sold that bat with the condition of taube's approval." I think when things are purchased, there shouldn't be conditions like this, for this exact reason.

when i bought my bat from him that failed, i had him send it directly to taube to save on the shipping - i never saw the bat in person until after taube failed it. i dont know about anyone else, but clearly, there was an understanding that whatever i was purchasing would pass PSA. i am also 99% certain he guaranteed that to me, i just have to look and find the email that said it.

[dougiedshow]

Tony,

Thanks for the input.

Joe Rivera guaranteed the bats would pass authentication or could be returned. Everyone in the hobby understands that means PSA, in my opinion. Had they said, "we won't back it to pass PSA, but it will pass Joe Blow's opinion" then I obviously would not have purchased the bats. The fact that Juan thinks another authenticator's opinion is acceptable, especially after it has failed the hobby leader, is proof of his character. I'm not sure what other opinion he thinks I should feel comfortable with, but I can tell you now, I don't.

The short sightedness of Juan and Joe is quite amazing. If they won't refund the Administrator of Game Used Universe... it's unlikely anyone would see a refund.

[skyking26]

I had one interaction as Juan the seller and I the purposed buyer of a bat via auction.

I was tipped off by a friend that the bat may be "suspect," so I asked the auction co for a secondary opinion. They agreed and another party gave it a far less GU grade, and was not in agreement with one's view of a crack as opposed to "deadwood." Too many if's for a high priced jersey. Props to the auction house as they let me out of the purchase. It was reauctioned for a much lower price.

Bad part about all this is the auction house in my situation gets the sting, and I also was without the item in the end. Everybody loses.

I've left names and the item in question intentially out here. People did me favors by examining the piece and the auction house was very good about everything so I'm going to leave all that alone. I thought it might help to bring attention that I'm another victim. I'm sure there are others -

[memorabiliaunlimited]

i searched getty images for at a minimum a style match for the bat, of which i found many. plus having previously purchased a similar item from the same person with no issue, i had no reason to believe that it would not pass. i am not complaining at all about what happened, and nothing i said would indicate that i was. cant win them all and i get that. i am telling other people of my experience with this seller and notifying other collectors to watch out. that is the whole purpose of this thread.

[ndevlin]

So you are making a riff about getting scammed and you knew it was possible that the bats would not be authentic.

Next time don't buy without bats being Authenticated!!!

End of Story. You live and learn. Move on

I'm still really curious--- do you only buy authenticated bats?