Retail cleats "game used" by McGwire?

[LarryWalkerFan]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/172588993308

Seller says that I wasn't the winner, and it's already sold, so he doesn't care to answer questions. He stated the cleats were from 1999.

Tag appears to date to 1997 Nov - 1998 Jan. I don't know, but other cleats I've seen sold had special promo tags. Do the Cards usually offer up retail tagged cleats?

[seanbaseball]

Re: Retail cleats "game used" by McGwire?

FYI i sold about 60 pairs of Cardinal game worn cleats so far this year. U should go through the other 59 pair and check for use/style/year etc and create a spreadsheet. This would be an excellent use of your time.

[LarryWalkerFan]

Re: Retail cleats "game used" by McGwire?

I sold the cleats. Thanks for annoying me and wasting my time. I did not sell the cleats as a specific year if u check the auction. I do not have to answer 20 questions from someone that did not buy them. Get a life. You also told me u were just taking a survey of what year i thought they were as u were tracking game used cleats worn by Mcgwire......apparently a lie! Dont post on here criticizing my item when u are obviously clueless.

Actually, I was trying to compile information, since VSA sold a similar looking pair of cleats a while back with a questionable McGwire signature. I was looking for info, but your responses were unnecessarily defensive, which made me question the validity of the item.

Also, you messaged me that it was a 1999 cleat, through eBay's messaging system.

[seanbaseball]

Re: Retail cleats "game used" by McGwire?

Compile information? On cleats that sold? Interesting. These are the VSA cleats i believe. They have a Lou Sampson LOA for game use and a JSA for the signature. I bought these in a group of many other cleats. I chose to wipe off the signature since I didnt think it looked good even though JSA passed it. By doing this it meant I would sell them for less $ but I wouldnt be selling something that I thought was questionable. I answered your first couple questions through ebay but once we moved past that i told u to conduct your own "research" that they were sold and there is no point in me wasting my time. I told you that "i was told they were 1999" and in the auction listing I didnt list a year as i wasnt positive. I sold about 400 game used items on ebay so far this year and if I had to answer multiple questions from people that didnt bid or win my items I would have zero time for anything else.
I still feel I owe u nothing and dealt with you and tried to satisfy your questions. I have zero obligation to even answer your questions. The buyer asked questions and then won the auction. Call Lou Sampson and question him about the cleats and or call VSA.

[LarryWalkerFan]

Re: Retail cleats "game used" by McGwire?

Compile information? On cleats that sold? Interesting. These are the VSA cleats i believe. They have a Lou Sampson LOA for game use and a JSA for the signature.

You probably should have returned them to VSA rather than wiping off the signature. Lou Lampson items tend toward questionable. I think, at one point, he was one of the most respected sources for autographed (and game used) items, but it turned out that much of his items were forgeries or fakes.

Now knowing that it is the same pair from VSA, I'm pretty certain they weren't McGwire gamers. I'm not faulting you directly, but the item (given its origins) is questionable.

[joecoco]

Re: Retail cleats "game used" by McGwire?

That's funny Ben - great Clemente by the way. Not to add gasoline on, troll, or whatever to this thread, but I purchased a few bats from Sean this year and the interactions were nothing short of fantastic. He was completely fair and I could see him taking less for an item to preserve integrity. I just thought I would put my experience out there.

[LarryWalkerFan]

Re: Retail cleats "game used" by McGwire?

That's funny Ben - great Clemente by the way. Not to add gasoline on, troll, or whatever to this thread, but I purchased a few bats from Sean this year and the interactions were nothing short of fantastic. He was completely fair and I could see him taking less for an item to preserve integrity. I just thought I would put my experience out there.

As I stated before, I'm not questioning Sean. I'm specifically questioning how often retail cleats would be game used by McGwire.

[panthrotc]

Re: Retail cleats "game used" by McGwire?

Someone post a pic of the signed cleats before the signature was removed. I can only imagine how bad the sig was as McGwire's auto when he signed red cleats was normally gorgeous as his late 90's style full signature was a thing of it's own. And Btw, McGwire gu cleats from his cardinal years were obtained directly from him as gifts and almost always he added a full name sig. Just my 2 cents. I have over 300 of his signatures. Would to see a pic of the auto that was removed.

[3arod13]

Re: Retail cleats "game used" by McGwire?

Someone post a pic of the signed cleats before the signature was removed. I can only imagine how bad the sig was as McGwire's auto when he signed red cleats was normally gorgeous as his late 90's style full signature was a thing of it's own. And Btw, McGwire gu cleats from his cardinal years were obtained directly from him as gifts and almost always he added a full name sig. Just my 2 cents. I have over 300 of his signatures. Would to see a pic of the auto that was removed.

300 signatures? Wow! What is your earliest full signature. I have some McGwire signatures and this is the best full signature I've come across. Please show your best full signature. Thanks!

[seanbaseball]

Re: Retail cleats "game used" by McGwire?

Someone post a pic of the signed cleats before the signature was removed. I can only imagine how bad the sig was as McGwire's auto when he signed red cleats was normally gorgeous as his late 90's style full signature was a thing of it's own. And Btw, McGwire gu cleats from his cardinal years were obtained directly from him as gifts and almost always he added a full name sig. Just my 2 cents. I have over 300 of his signatures. Would to see a pic of the auto that was removed.

Here they are

[seanbaseball]

Re: Retail cleats "game used" by McGwire?

You probably should have returned them to VSA rather than wiping off the signature. Lou Lampson items tend toward questionable. I think, at one point, he was one of the most respected sources for autographed (and game used) items, but it turned out that much of his items were forgeries or fakes.

Now knowing that it is the same pair from VSA, I'm pretty certain they weren't McGwire gamers. I'm not faulting you directly, but the item (given its origins) is questionable.

As stated earlier i bought them with a group of 400 other items. Didnt feel it was still VSA's problem for what i deemed to be a bad signature. JSA passed it but i just couldnt buy into that. Next time lets not imply that im passing off bogus items. Ive thrown away items in the past that were bad. Not too long ago I bought a Torre game used bat for $1200 that i then resold. When the buyer sent it to PSA Taube indicated that the "use" was faked. I immediately gave the buyer a full refund and since I couldnt relocate the original seller I sold the bat for $200 on ebay as a game issued bat with faked use. I also told this buyer that he better not try to resell as game used as the bat was marked by Taube and that I would be watching auctions etc. I try to do the right thing when buying and selling even if that means losing a bunch. Plenty of bad sellers out there, concentrate on them

[mbrieve]

Re: Retail cleats "game used" by McGwire?

Personally, I believe that the removal of the signature alters the item and should have been disclosed in the listing. I understand the reason for removing the signature, but, honestly, something like a bogus signature on an item raises red flags for the overall authenticity.

[seanbaseball]

Re: Retail cleats "game used" by McGwire?

Personally, I believe that the removal of the signature alters the item and should have been disclosed in the listing. I understand the reason for removing the signature, but, honestly, something like a bogus signature on an item raises red flags for the overall authenticity.

JSA passed the signature but if it was a good one it was awful. Signed cleats sell for much much more than unsigned so if the sig was no good I believe it was just to enhance the value as opposed to creating a fully fake item. And for what they sold for u would be hard pressed to go to a shoe store and buy nice cleats! The cleats were altered when they were signed and i removed the alteration.

[mbrieve]

Re: Retail cleats "game used" by McGwire?

JSA passed the signature but if it was a good one it was awful. Signed cleats sell for much much more than unsigned so if the sig was no good I believe it was just to enhance the value as opposed to creating a fully fake item. And for what they sold for u would be hard pressed to go to a shoe store and buy nice cleats! The cleats were altered when they were signed and i removed the alteration. I conclude by saying

So, when should alterations/restorations be disclosed? Why wouldn't you err on the side of full disclosure?

If a jersey is restored to it's original condition by adding back the original name and/or patches, should the seller have to disclose?

If cleats came without shoelaces and a new set is put in, should the seller have to disclose?

If an item was signed with a personalization that was later removed leaving only the signature, should the seller have to disclose?

If a bat is broken into two pieces and glued back together, should the seller have to disclose?

[seanbaseball]

Re: Retail cleats "game used" by McGwire?

So, when should alterations/restorations be disclosed? Why wouldn't you err on the side of full disclosure?

If a jersey is restored to it's original condition by adding back the original name and/or patches, should the seller have to disclose?

If cleats came without shoelaces and a new set is put in, should the seller have to disclose?

If an item was signed with a personalization that was later removed leaving only the signature, should the seller have to disclose?

If a bat is broken into two pieces and glued back together, should the seller have to disclose?

Adding back patches/names/numbers is altering by adding non original items to make a jersey look original. Of course this should be disclosed

Removing a personalization? No, not if its completely gone. If its gone then its.......................gone/not there/no longer exists.

Broken bat. Yes as once again u would be altering the bat to make it look original.

These cleats werent worn by Mcgwire with a signature on them. The signature was added either by Mcgwire or someone else. If I sell a car that had a good scratch and i buff it out or touch it up do I have to disclose that there used to be a scratch right here? No. How about if I sell a home and dont disclose that I cleaned up a stain on the carpet? Hopefully u get the idea. Bottom line is that I did the honorable thing and removed what I thought was a bad signature which resulted in me making less money. I could have sold with the signature and just stood behind the JSA letter and I guarantee I would have sold for more money. My final word is: I dont care anymore and am moving on. LOL.