what?

[JRocker49]

how is this the real deal am i missing something but it looks like a retail to me http://cgi.ebay.com/2002-Game-Used-Adam-Dunn-Cincinnati-Reds-Road-Jersey_W0QQitemZ290083032794QQihZ019QQcategoryZ605 97QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[suave1477]

How is it not?

[bigtime59]

Neck tag and lack of a property of the Cincinatti Reds strip tag would indicate that this jersey at least started out as retail. Without a closer examination for wear, I couldn't say if it ever got into a game.

[suave1477]

Bigtime I agree with you missing the tagging, but you are correct this could have been a retail jersey that made its way on to the field.

It is interesting though, that Dunn himself would agree to signing a letter saying it was game used.

[JRocker49]

that is what is confusin gme no property of tagging and the enck but yet a letter from dunn who knows. also who knows if dunn even read what the letter said and really cared? we will never know but i would not trust that item with those issues even thought he may have used it just doesnt add up

[allstarsplus]

You guys are correct on the tagging as I had purchased 1 of these back in 2001 and the jersey lacked in my opinion the proper tagging and had light wear.

When I called the "old ASI" Scot Monette assured me it was game used, and we did a conference call with myself and Adam Dunn on my jersey issue. Apparently, ASI purchased extras for Adam to wear, and Adam backed this up on the phone call.

Hope that helps.

Andrew

[3arod13]

You guys are correct on the tagging as I had purchased 1 of these back in 2001 and the jersey lacked in my opinion the proper tagging and had light wear.

When I called the "old ASI" Scot Monette assured me it was game used, and we did a conference call with myself and Adam Dunn on my jersey issue. Apparently, ASI purchased extras for Adam to wear, and Adam backed this up on the phone call.

Hope that helps.

Andrew

This is what I don't like about so called game used stuff in today's hobby. So much of it is manufactured solely for sale purposes. I want a players jersey, bat, cleats, etc. that he actually wanted for himself, used often, and then founds it's way for sale. Too much of this stuff is not truly game used for the sole purpose of a player using it in his job to play baseball. ASI and others are having players barely touch or wear an item, then it's immediately up for sale as game used. Most of what's out there, I just don't trust. Just my thoughts.

[suave1477]

This is what I don't like about so called game used stuff in today's hobby. So much of it is manufactured solely for sale purposes. I want a players jersey, bat, cleats, etc. that he actually wanted for himself, used often, and then founds it's way for sale. Too much of this stuff is not truly game used for the sole purpose of a player using it in his job to play baseball. ASI and others are having players barely touch or wear an item, then it's immediately up for sale as game used. Most of what's out there, I just don't trust. Just my thoughts.

Arod I hear what your saying and agree but think also about what your saying!!
You said you rather have an item that has been game used and some how made it way on to the open market for sale / see with that how do you ever feel truly confident the player actually wore it unless he gave it to you himself off his back???
Even though ASI may not be giving you the greatest used item at least according to Adam Dunn it was verified that it was used!!!

[3arod13]

Arod I hear what your saying and agree but think also about what your saying!!
You said you rather have an item that has been game used and some how made it way on to the open market for sale / see with that how do you ever feel truly confident the player actually wore it unless he gave it to you himself off his back???
Even though ASI may not be giving you the greatest used item at least according to Adam Dunn it was verified that it was used!!!

Understand. I'm not referring to the Adam Dunn jersey. Acutally, I like to believe, if a player signs a letter, especially with a picture of him signing it, that it's good. This hobby is getting tougher and tougher. I liked it better 20 years ago. Not as much nice stuff as today, but if you got something back then, it was good. Still love to collect, but you definatley have to do your homework.

[allstarsplus]

3arod13 - I saw the same thing with Sosa, ARod Rangers jerseys and Rafael Palmeiro jerseys with these patterns of light wear and tagging issues, but they had the nice LOAs which seemed to be enough documentation for buyers to be comfortable. It got to a point where there were so many on the market. As a dealer, I found I was losing money selling them on eBay and stopped buying them.

It will be interesting what that Dunn HR jersey sells for.

Andrew

[kingjammy24]

"When I called the "old ASI" Scot Monette assured me it was game used, and we did a conference call with myself and Adam Dunn on my jersey issue. Apparently, ASI purchased extras for Adam to wear, and Adam backed this up on the phone call."

for me personally, scot monette's "assurances" are worth less than a plate of hot garbage. the "old ASI" was one of the biggest jokes going. the "new ASI" isn't any better. andrew, when you did the conference call with monette and dunn, how do you know it was really dunn? seriously.
(on the phone, i wouldn't be able to tell the difference between andy pettite and the guy who does my oil changes).

purportedly then, asi and dunn struck a deal for asi to sell dunn's gamers. to assist with this, asi purchased retail jerseys and had dunn wear them?
why wouldn't dunn just place orders through the reds? you'd think he could get as many "pro issues" as he likes. instead, scot monette had to hightail it to the local Footlocker? the team must've loved that; players bringing in their own retail jerseys to wear.

for discussion's sake, let's assume it was really dunn on the conference call and he verified that he used the jersey. while i realize that, in general, getting this sort of player input/verification on an item is a fantastic way of validating an item, i also have to think that there are some players out there who lie or "look the other way" at best. simply because a player says something doesn't automatically mean its true. let's face it, they're not all saints and angels. there are tons of substantiated stories of players pumping out unused items in order to sell them. player provenance is only as good as the player's word and some players words are worthless.

"Actually, I like to believe, if a player signs a letter, especially with a picture of him signing it, that it's good."

it'd be nice to believe wouldn't it? i can't see how it's true in every case though. after years of lying to wives, girlfriends, media, etc., what's a few more lies to a memorabilia dealer or collector?

"So much of it is manufactured solely for sale purposes"

bingo. is it really surprising that some players have had a hand in this manufacturing?

rudy.

[allstarsplus]

"andrew, when you did the conference call with monette and dunn, how do you know it was really dunn? seriously.
(on the phone, i wouldn't be able to tell the difference between andy pettite and the guy who does my oil changes).

rudy. Rudy - In the world of dealing with memorabilia scumbuckets, your question is valid. Usually my contacts with athletes are from cellphones with Caller ID block on them.

The only reason I was fairly confident it was Adam was because I insisted on setting up the conference call myself, and I was given a phone # to the hotel he was staying at on a roadtrip.

When I called the hotel they connected me to his room (he was wasn't using an alias at this point in his career) and my recollection was that I woke him up as it was a morning phone call.

As far as any 100% guarantees that it was definitely gamel used given the LOA, phone call, signature, inscription----life doesn't have many guarantees. I think as collectors/dealers, we just need to do our due diligence and get as comfortable as we can. I generally start skeptical with game used items and do my homework. When I first received the jersey, I knew the Dunn should have had certain tagging and when it didn't have it I was going to return it which led to explanations with Scot and the subsequent conference call.

In Scot's defense, I have received many great items from him. There have been a few bumps in the road with Scot, but for the most part I think if you purchase items that pertain to his exclusive athletes you will be ahead of the game.

Just my 2 cents. Andrew

[kingjammy24]

andrew,

fair enough. as we both know, there are no 100% guarantees. that said, i try to do everything i can to suss out an item. i wish others did. someone's about to pay over $500 for the ASI manning and apparently they didn't even bother looking at a single image of manning during 2005. it's embarassing.

i've heard so many "big fish" stories in this hobby; everyone and their brother purports to get their items "directly from the athletes!". everyone's got a "team source" these days. for me it's not hard to believe that someone would pretend to be a player over the phone in order to score a big sale.

i suppose my natural suspicions extend to players as well, especially given the experiences of players like griffey, arod, palmeiro, bonds. i think that player collections are the greatest potential source of items. however, that doesn't mean that i'd just run in with blinders on. if griffey himself called me and offered me a truckload of game bats and all of them had the "125" underlined, i'd refuse. griffey or not, they don't make sense.
like i said, player provenance is only as good as a players memory & word. i do believe some players words are worthless. as we saw with some of the recent gallas' whitesox jerseys, some team sources are also dubious.

rudy.