eBay, forum classifieds, and game used sales

[emann]

So, I have a general query on the state of GU on eBay, here, etc:

It feels like over the last, let's say 6 months specifically, there have been some "very nice" items either not selling or selling low on eBay. I personally have picked up some good deals and have other items that I don't need in my collection but am watching.

Is eBay totally dead for GU items? I don't buy from sports auctions much (mostly because I can't stand the longer "bidding time extension" process), but I can see stuff in big auctions is getting great prices, so it seems to just be an eBay thing and maybe less reflective of the GU market being way down. I've bought most of my collection on eBay or direct from dealers since about 2008, so it has been odd to see the numbers drop off so significantly for quality items.

I also think there are less "great" items being offered on eBay. For example, when I started buying GU from eBay around 2008, I feel like you'd see great bats from players like Puckett, Boggs, Gwynn being auctioned every few months and getting decent money. Now it seems like the same few questionable items from those players just relisted over and over.

I also think the GUU forum classifieds have been lacking in stuff selling. I see the same items being bumped and relisted. Also, like eBay, none of these offerings seem "great." (part of that controlled by the monetary limit, but still).

Is it due to eBay's messing with seller rules? Increased costs? The fact that you need to weed thru a ton of garbage on eBay to find something good?

Anyway, just thoughts, wondering if anyone here feels the same . . .

TL;DR—very nice GU eBay items selling cheap or not at all. Great stuff not being offered.

[memorabiliaunlimited]

in my experience, ebay auctions usually result in "steals and deals", generally really around 50% or so of what the item is truly worth. i will regularly hunt for good items in ebay auctions because i can usually get them for a very low cost compared to say MLB auctions or directly from teams.

i dont think ebay has ever been reflective of a market value - the auctions run for a maximum of 10 days with no advertisements. people just dont know the auctions are running and items dont receive the attention they deserve.

since ebay started cracking down on off ebay sales, it has become more difficult to consummate a sale. an extra 9% of the top, which can be up to $250, sometimes makes the transaction impossible. you also have to consider that even just to break even, you need to sell it for above your cost. but, i am sure ebay could care less, because over the last few months since being forced to sell items through ebay, the amount of fees i have paid has increased despite a decrease in the amount of sales which were started through ebay. it is quite a pain, but there is no other feasible alternative at this point.

[emann]

i will regularly hunt for good items in ebay auctions because i can usually get them for a very low cost compared to say MLB auctions or directly from teams.

i dont think ebay has ever been reflective of a market value

Thanks for the feedback . . .

I actually don't view MLB auctions as even slightly market value. The bidding there seems frenzied (if not sometimes suspiciously so, as has been pointed out here numerous times) with items going for a serious premium over retail usually. I've seen items there that have been unsold in the team shops for a long time, hit the MLB auctions and end at double or more their retail asking price.

I don't sell much on ebay, but I know their structure is not geared toward the seller. I assume they care less about 1 of a kind auction items and are focused on marketplace/drop ship sellers who have a never-ending supply chain.

[earlywynnfan]

As for game used bats, I don't see nearly as many in big auctions, either. Either they've all been absorbed and nobody sells, or they've all been cut up and I want to punch somebody.

[memorabiliaunlimited]

Thanks for the feedback . . .

I actually don't view MLB auctions as even slightly market value. The bidding there seems frenzied (if not sometimes suspiciously so, as has been pointed out here numerous times) with items going for a serious premium over retail usually. I've seen items there that have been unsold in the team shops for a long time, hit the MLB auctions and end at double or more their retail asking price.

I don't sell much on ebay, but I know their structure is not geared toward the seller. I assume they care less about 1 of a kind auction items and are focused on marketplace/drop ship sellers who have a never-ending supply chain.

agree 100%

[Nnunnari]

The risk of selling quality items on ebay and having your item get limited bidding activity (can't sell your items on ebay with a reserve because it scares off everyone) combined with the fact there is seemingly an auction going on at all times has steared just about everybody to consign their items to an auction house. Plus, you will sometimes see items sell in auctions for ridiculously high prices where as, you will never see something sell for "market value" on ebay. There are still nice items on ebay but they are listed with high BIN's and it is a matter of finding out how motivated the seller really is to move an item. I would say there are about 6-10 real good game used bat buys on ebay a year now, substantially down from years past, before the auction boom.
Mlb auction's ridiculous prices goes to show you how much more potential the hobby has and how many more people could potentially enter other avenues of buying/selling in the hobby if there was a means for educating them and offering a trustworthy platform to buy and sell. At the end of the day, collectors are lazy and will pay a real premium for rock solid provenance like MLB auctions.

[memorabiliaunlimited]

maybe a year or 2 ago, i had heard a rumor that MLB auctions was considering allowing people to list their MLB authenticated items for sale, or at least something along those lines. i thought it was a fantastic idea, but obviously it never happened.

[bryzzo2016]

Really good points by everyone here, and I agree with almost all of them.

In regards to some collector's being "lazy" and paying MLB Auctions prices, I don't think they all can be lumped in this group.

Instead I think they fall into two categories:

1.) Casual collectors who simply have plenty of money and not the time and/or desire to seek better deals elsewhere. Some may not even be collectors and just buyers making a one time purchase and just believe those to be the market price.

2.) Serious collectors who sometimes just "bite the bullet" to get what they really want, because MLB has a monopoly one that particular item.

Perfect example of this are the 2016 World Series game used baseballs. MLB has held a tight grip on these. You ARE NOT going to find one for less than $2500 you know is real. Unless of course you caught a foul ball at one of the games.



Ebay is a joke. And their recent crackdown on selling via direct PayPal is pure greed. When Ebay and PayPal were owned jointly this was merely a slap on the wrist if you got caught. Now (and it happened to me) you get your count permanently suspended if they catch you twice.

As soon as the money stopped going to the same coffer, overnight they did this.

Ebay could care less about sellers. Unless of course they are the high volume drop-shippers.

[Nnunnari]

Good points Bryzzo regarding collectors. Obviously, all collectors aren't lazy, their time is more valuable than money and would rather spend a premium for a slam dunk of an item instead of immerse themselves into the hobby like most of us do, which is perfectly fine. If I want to buy a Rolex, I'll pay more going to a guy I know is the guy to get Rolexes from instead of spending weeks scouring online for the best deal.

[bryzzo2016]

Good points Bryzzo regarding collectors. Obviously, all collectors aren't lazy, their time is more valuable than money and would rather spend a premium for a slam dunk of an item instead of immerse themselves into the hobby like most of us do, which is perfectly fine. If I want to buy a Rolex, I'll pay more going to a guy I know is the guy to get Rolexes from instead of spending weeks scouring online for the best deal.

EXACTLY !

[emann]

Good points Bryzzo regarding collectors. Obviously, all collectors aren't lazy, their time is more valuable than money and would rather spend a premium for a slam dunk of an item instead of immerse themselves into the hobby like most of us do, which is perfectly fine. If I want to buy a Rolex, I'll pay more going to a guy I know is the guy to get Rolexes from instead of spending weeks scouring online for the best deal.

The point about casual bidders makes sense around the more well-publicized auctions (like AS, WS, WBC). I can understand that they have tons of eyes on those games and the promotion for those auctions, increases interest and bidding.

I understand the casual well-heeled collector theory, even though I feel those people aren't true "collectors," they're just luxury item consumers. Although, I still think collecting game worn laundry is less accessible than buying Rolexes, etc . . .

At some point those people need to change their office decor, where do the items go? A decent Rolex is a very easy thing to sell, a game worn jersey that you seriously overpaid for, not so much. Maybe we haven't hit that point yet, where those buyers start going "is it still cool to have this Stephen Drew 2013 World Series jersey that I paid 5K for hanging on my wall?"

[ChrisCavalier]

Very interesting thread. I will add a couple of my observations to the mix:

1) Regarding eBay, for the reasons suggested here, it appears almost all of the quality sports memorabilia items are now offered via BINs.
Unfortunately, almost all of the offered prices are so unreasonable that it discourages me from even looking.
I mean, when someone lists an item for five times retail, why would I want to spend time making an offer when it is telling me the seller probably has no intention of selling it at a price that would seem reasonable.
My suspicion is that sellers think by listing it at five times retail, the buyer will think he is getting a deal if he offers twice retail.
However, that is clearly a game for uneducated industry buyers and one I certainly have no interest playing.

I guess if you have a lot of time (maybe rich guys like Nick who are buying Rolex watches :) ), you can invest the time needed to find the few deals that might be out there.
However, since I am so busy with work and other activities, I honestly do not have the time it takes to find the few deals that may be found if you are watching all the time.
If you do have the time and patience to find those deals then God bless you. I am just not one of those people.

2) I look at data a LOT (I used to work in market research for Procter & Gamble) when trying to determine potential values of items.
As you can imagine, given what I do for a living, I am often asked what I think an item might bring in auction.
Rather than licking my finger and sticking it in the air, I look at empirical sales data in an effort to extrapolate a reasonable estimate from it.
With that said, one of the questions I always have to ask myself when looking at data is whether or not a data point for an item "sold" online was really a sale.
As everyone here likely knows, Goldin (the company I bring in consignments for) does not use "hidden reserves."
However, I often wonder how many auction venues do use hidden reserves and whether or not those reserves are revealed when items do not sell.
This is especially true when I look at eBay data online for items that 'sold' via the BIN option.
Please note I am not judging anyone in this regard. I just wonder if the data that is available online is truly an accurate reflection of the market.

Just a couple of additional thoughts I wanted to add to this interesting very topic.
Would love to hear any other thoughts others might have.

-Chris

[Juicyfruit66]

i think a lot of people are using facebook mlb game used sites to sell GU stuff with no fees.

[bryzzo2016]

"I understand the casual well-heeled collector theory, even though I feel those people aren't true "collectors," they're just luxury item consumers. Although, I still think collecting game worn laundry is less accessible than buying Rolexes, etc . . .

At some point those people need to change their office decor, where do the items go? A decent Rolex is a very easy thing to sell, a game worn jersey that you seriously overpaid for, not so much. Maybe we haven't hit that point yet, where those buyers start going "is it still cool to have this Stephen Drew 2013 World Series jersey that I paid 5K for hanging on my wall?"[/QUOTE]"



I couldn't agree more. I think a lot of the people that pay those high prices definitely fit in this category.

[emann]

Very interesting thread. I will add a couple of my observations to the mix:

1) Regarding eBay, for the reasons suggested here, it appears almost all of the quality sports memorabilia items are now offered via BINs.
Unfortunately, almost all of the offered prices are so unreasonable that it discourages me from even looking.
I mean, when someone lists an item for five times retail, why would I want to spend time making an offer when it is telling me the seller probably has no intention of selling it at a price that would seem reasonable.

However, I often wonder how many auction venues do use hidden reserves and whether or not those reserves are revealed when items do not sell.
This is especially true when I look at eBay data online for items that 'sold' via the BIN option.
Please note I am not judging anyone in this regard. I just wonder if the data that is available online is truly an accurate reflection of the market.


Chris-

Very interesting comments; I do think the high BIN's on eBay have discouraged any offers from most buyers. Even with a reasonable retail BIN, I think you have fewer people willing to even make an offer, similar to the issue of auctioning there with a reserve—buyers just assume they're not going to win the item and don't bid. BIN buyers just assume that whatever offer they make will get haggled/countered . . . The items that are 5x market value for me just add to the noise that needs to be waded thru to find good items at fair prices.

As I mentioned at the beginning, I think some are still out there, but not as many. So, obviously collectors are holding items more, etc.

I did notice in rereading that I used the last decade as the timespan I'm referencing. So, maybe in 2008 with the economy tanking, more good items were being made available for quick cash on eBay and now they're being held onto?

re; your market analysis. I found that interesting and agree, I don't think online auctions are a reliable source for this info. It is too easy for a couple auctions to skew the average value. An auction that goes unnoticed and sells cheap (as mentioned earlier), an impulse bidder who overpays, etc. Since every item is also one-of-a-kind, so many variables toward figuring it out. Does it basically come down to specific sports auctions and dealer sales (without being able to access private sales numbers of most transactions) for you?