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View Full Version : Cal Ripken 83 Alternate Jersey and 86 Road Pants



mr.miracle
02-19-2007, 03:26 PM
Hello Forum Readers:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Cal-Ripken-Jr-Game-used-Pants-Shirt-Glove-Autographed_W0QQitemZ190083974004QQihZ009QQcategor yZ25129QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Below is a link to a current ebay auction featuring what is reported to be a 1983 Ripken game worn Orange Alternate jersey that is tagged 83 set 1 from the looks of it. It is a Wilson size 46 jersey. The pants also in the auction are Sand Knit and are tagged 86 according to what I can make out from the auction. I have asked the seller for some additional info. such as close-ups of the jersey tagging and internal wash tag. I have also asked for photos of the back of the jersey. I have asked as well why the seller is selling an 83 Orange Alt top with an 86 road grey pair of pants. The photo included in the auction does not really help anything because the pants are home white in the photo and the batting glove in the auction does not match the pair that Ripken is wearing in the photo.

What I am looking for is verification that Wilson was the manufacturer of the Orange alternates in 1983. I am pretty sure that they were. I am also looking to find out if anyone has any info on what size Ripken wore in 1983. I am familiar with the 1985 Sand knit road grey in which Ripken wore a size 44. I believe he wore a size 44 also in his Rookie jersey's in 81-82. I know that these were a different manufacturer assuming that the Wilson Alt Orange is the correct manufacturer so that could explain the size difference.

Additionally, does anyone have any idea how frequently the Orange Alt tops were worn by the Orioles during the 1983 season or in general during that time period. I am trying to locate that info. as well.

The photos are not the best but from what can be seen it does not look like the jersey saw heavy wear which would most likely be consistent with the Alternate jerseys.

I am fairly certain that the tagging on the 1986 road pants is correct in terms of manufacturer and year tagging etc. but if anyone can shed light on that please feel free.

Basically, if this would turn out to be what it is reported to be, then an 83 Ripken would be a very nice find.

Any feedback would be most helpful. I will attempt to get additional photos as I can as well.

Thanks

hblakewolf
02-19-2007, 03:49 PM
Brett-
The pants have been recycled to either other O's minor league teams or spring training. See the name written on the pocket and also the original strip tag appears to have red ink written over it. This was/is common for the O's to do this with their pants. You need to find out if they are thrashed (mends, rips, etc). because they may have seen extensive use from several other players.

Not sure about the jersey-I need to see my files before making any comments.

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

ksfarmboy
02-19-2007, 05:14 PM
http://www.baseballhalloffame.org/exhibits/online_exhibits/dressed_to_the_nines/uniforms.asp?city=Baltimore&league=AL&sort=year&increment=9&pos=28

Did the Orioles wear these in 1983?

Clint

jonschuette
02-20-2007, 10:11 AM
I have a 1985 home uniform and the Rawalings jersey size is 44. I can check on the pants if you would like.

Jon

Always looking for 1994 San Francisco 49ers throwback game used jerseys.

Utopian2630
02-20-2007, 10:59 AM
I was researching the database and found that at least on the Pittsburgh Pirates section of the database, they failed to include the black long-sleeve alternate the Pirates have worn over the past few seasons. I'm not saying it positively concludes wheather or not the O's wore the orange alternate in '83, I'm just showing that the database might miss something here or there.

ironmanfan
02-20-2007, 11:13 AM
Not to get OT but wanted simply to advise collectors that there have been a good number of 1985 Home Ripken "salesman's samples" in the hooby for years (along with Murray) as well as 1991 & 1994 road tops. Collectors need to exercise exterme caution when purchasing these.

CollectGU
02-22-2007, 09:08 PM
According to Bill Henderson's guide, the orange alt. wasn't worn in 83'. Can anyone confirm whether this is correct?

Thanks,
Dave

ironmanfan
02-22-2007, 09:29 PM
Thats not correct...they wore them early in 1983 on occasion & since they always seemed to lose while wearing them, they stopped wearing them as a "superstition" type thing sometime early in the campaign (May or so). I recall having a talk with Rich Dauer late in the 1983 season & asked him what happened to them. Obviously they went on to the win the WS wearing the traditional white & grey the rest of the season. They didn't bring out Orange alternates again as game tops until 1987. The size on that Ripken is all wrong for 1983 & the batting gloves are 100% bogus (pants may be OK).

CollectGU
02-22-2007, 09:36 PM
Very helpful info...Thanks!

mr.miracle
02-22-2007, 11:24 PM
Hello Ironmanfan:

thanks for all the help. Based on the sizes that Cal wore I am guessing that you believe that the correct size should be a 44? for that year? If you have any info. that supports that one way or the other please let us know. I personally have never, ever seen the type of gloves or glove that is being sold used by Cal. Despite the blurry picture, nothing I have ever seen leads me to believe that Cal used that glove and since Ironmanfan verified that it sounds like that issue is settled.

It sounds like the Orioles used these for such a short period of time in 83 that they would have very light game use overall.

thanks

ripkengamers
02-23-2007, 10:16 PM
Well Brett,

Based upon the Q&A section of this listing, the shear implications the seller was going to pull the auction has prompted some bidding. Looks lilke its over $5k.................just can't quite come to grips as to whether that jersey is legit.

allstarsplus
02-24-2007, 02:23 PM
Well Brett,

Based upon the Q&A section of this listing, the shear implications the seller was going to pull the auction has prompted some bidding. Looks lilke its over $5k.................just can't quite come to grips as to whether that jersey is legit.

Did you all see a question that was supposedly from Troy Kinunen???

Q: Greetings. I have reviewed your jersey and based on the preliminaries, tagging, nob, size, style, etc, it appears you have an authentic jersey. I read you may close the auction. I want you to know I am planning on placing a bid on the final day. If you end the auction early, please give me a chance to meet or beat any offer. Troy R. Kinunen Feb-22-07http://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/x.gifhttp://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/x.gifhttp://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/x.gif

A: Im not shure to let the aution RUN my reason !! Is the jersey is worth my price alone!! If there is no bidding 24h befroe end i will close it!!

bigtime59
02-24-2007, 02:27 PM
This seller (in my jaundiced mind, anyway) does herself no good by coming across as a) barely literate and b) a complete and utter knucklehead.
How on earth can you take a chance on buying something ONLINE from someone who apparently doesn't know which way is up? Especially when the seller won't offer a money-back guarantee?
Glad I don't have the $5K to burn on this one...

allstarsplus
02-24-2007, 05:40 PM
please give me a chance to meet or beat any offer. Troy R. Kinunen Feb-22-07http://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/x.gifhttp://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/x.gifhttp://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/x.gif

Bigtime - I agree with you, but Troy is willing to meet or beat any offer so you wouldn't have a chance anyway (lol)!!!

If this is the real deal, this is an amazing jersey coming from Cal's 2nd full season and MVP year.

Just too much uncertainty with this one to risk that kind of money in my opinion.

Andrew

allstarsplus
02-25-2007, 09:08 AM
http://cgi.ebay.com/Cal-Ripken-Jr-Game-used-Pants-Shirt-Glove-Autographed_W0QQitemZ190083974004QQihZ009QQcategor yZ25129QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem



Guess what---the auction was removed by eBay!

This listing (190083974004) has been removed or is no longer available. Please make sure you entered the right item number.
If the listing was removed by eBay, consider it canceled. Note: Listings that have ended more than 90 days ago will no longer appear on eBay.

ripkengamers
02-25-2007, 03:12 PM
Well, at least we know one thing................the seller didn't cancel the listing........ebay must have found something about the listing or seller that prompted intervention!

ripkengamers
02-25-2007, 03:58 PM
Oh know......................it's back !!

The rights owner, Ripken Baseball, Inc., notified eBay that this listing violates intellectual property rights. When eBay receives a report of
this type of violation, we remove the listing to comply with the law.


Seller shows his/her true colors by including names of the inquirers...........looks like Brett and Troy were hung out to dry for the world to see :D

Looks like the jersey was purchased in '04 from AM.........obviously with a Lampson LOA !

I need a cryptographer to decipher this listing.......what a laugh! I'd be scared to send ANY money let alone $5k plus to someone with this level of intelligence!

ripkengamers
02-25-2007, 04:00 PM
Before you criticize my grammer "Oh know" it was intentional :D

allstarsplus
02-25-2007, 05:12 PM
Oh know......................it's back !!



Looks like the jersey was purchased in '04 from AM.........obviously with a Lampson LOA !

I need a cryptographer to decipher this listing.......what a laugh! I'd be scared to send ANY money let alone $5k plus to someone with this level of intelligence!

The AMI says it is a 2001 TBTC so I wouldn't think these are the same jerseys unless I am missing something......BTW, did you read the latest QUESTION about RATS???

http://i17.ebayimg.com/01/i/000/8e/43/54fa_12.JPG

Garistotle
02-25-2007, 05:37 PM
Guys,
My opinion is that this jersey is definitely NOT a Ripken gamer from 1983. I've also been told that the O's didn't wear orange in 1983, however, I own an orange Leo Hernandez O's jersey from 1983. The tagging on the alleged "Ripken jersey" is identical to my jersey (WIlson tag and year/set marking). HOWEVER, THE NAMEPLATE/LETTERING AND NUMBERING ARE ALL WRONG, in my opinion. The problem with the nameplate/lettering, the Orioles always used vertical arch style letters on their orange jerseys during this era - the Ripken nameplate is not vertical arch style. I also believe that the number 8 on the front and the back are too large for this style jersey. The orange Wilson jerseys used numbers that were smaller than those used for their normal home & away jerseys. This jersey appears to be completely "doctored up."

Please note that these observations are purely my opinion (and are based on my experience as a lifelong Orioles fan/collector). I'd hate to see someone get burned on this one.

Rich

mr.miracle
02-25-2007, 08:32 PM
Uh guys, I have pretty much been working around the clock for the past 2.5 days so this is the first time I have had a chance to check back in on either the ebay auction or this thread. What the heck is going on with this auction and or what am I missing because this seems very confusing? Are we saying that Ripken baseball reported this to ebay as some type of copyright infringement? What was copywritten that was a violation? What is the true nature of this jersey does anyone know and is it a 2001 tbtc? The thread seems to have become very confused and I am just curious what is going on?

BTW The lady that is or was selling this seems to be a real loon. She does not seem to have the vocabulary or spelling skill of a five year old so that alone really scared me off from this one.

Thanks

mr.miracle
02-26-2007, 12:54 AM
http://cgi.ebay.com/Cal-Ripken-Jr-Game-worn-used-Pants-Jersey-Rookie-Cards_W0QQitemZ190086969460QQihZ009QQcategoryZ6059 7QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Forum Readers:

Here is the latest link to this auction. Just an FYI, I had a bit of correspondence (If you can call it that lol) with the seller that was posted on the previous auction that was removed by ebay. I was naturally interested in this piece as a Ripken collector and as Andrew noted, if this is an authentic 83 piece coming from Cal's second full big league season, MVP and only World series year, this could be a rare find.

I was not a bidder because as other members have pointed out, this lady seems to be slightly unbalanced. If you think the responses posted by her on the auction itself are a complete mess, you should see her private email responses to me. Unfortunately, I deleted them all, but I could not even make any sense out of several of them. Needless to say I was not about to drop over 5 grand on something from a seller who was unable to form a coherant sentance at any point in her listing and or responses to questions.

It will be interesting to find out if anyone moves forward on this item with all of this additional information coming forward.

Thanks

bigtime59
02-26-2007, 09:31 AM
Guys,
My opinion is that this jersey is definitely NOT a Ripken gamer from 1983. I've also been told that the O's didn't wear orange in 1983, however, I own an orange Leo Hernandez O's jersey from 1983. The tagging on the alleged "Ripken jersey" is identical to my jersey (WIlson tag and year/set marking). HOWEVER, THE NAMEPLATE/LETTERING AND NUMBERING ARE ALL WRONG, in my opinion. The problem with the nameplate/lettering, the Orioles always used vertical arch style letters on their orange jerseys during this era - the Ripken nameplate is not vertical arch style. I also believe that the number 8 on the front and the back are too large for this style jersey. The orange Wilson jerseys used numbers that were smaller than those used for their normal home & away jerseys. This jersey appears to be completely "doctored up."

Please note that these observations are purely my opinion (and are based on my experience as a lifelong Orioles fan/collector). I'd hate to see someone get burned on this one.

Rich

Rich gets the prize for the correct answer. (The prize, of course, is the right NOT to bid on this auction.) This jersey apparently was boboed using a TBC jersey as a template...the problem being that a different number font was used in 1988 on these jerseys.
The Orioles are very much of the opinion that "close is good enough" when it comes to TBC jerseys. If you look at the M&N and Majestic TBC jerseys they have worn in 2001, 2003 and 2004, you can find discrepancies in ALL of them.

Mark
bigtime39@aol.com

mr.miracle
02-26-2007, 03:34 PM
Rich gets the prize for the correct answer. (The prize, of course, is the right NOT to bid on this auction.) This jersey apparently was boboed using a TBC jersey as a template...the problem being that a different number font was used in 1988 on these jerseys.
The Orioles are very much of the opinion that "close is good enough" when it comes to TBC jerseys. If you look at the M&N and Majestic TBC jerseys they have worn in 2001, 2003 and 2004, you can find discrepancies in ALL of them.

Mark
bigtime39@aol.com


The only question is, who doctored it? In the original ebay auction the lady selling the jersey said her husband obtained it in 1990 however I repeatedly asked her from whom and for additional details yet she never provided any of those. Based on the info. provided by various members it could not have been obtained in 1990.

This woman cannot ever form coherent sentence structure so I am going to go out on a limb and say that she had nothing to do with doctoring an Orioles jersey enough to potentially fool various industry experts. Then again, maybe she is playing everyone for complete fools.

allstarsplus
02-26-2007, 04:49 PM
Then again, maybe she is playing everyone for complete fools.

Now there is a thought! It actually takes someone with at least 1/2 a brain to list a jersey and take the pictures and upload them, etc. In my opinion, (He or She) gives answers with LESS brainpower than someone with 1/2 a brain. It just doesn't make sense.

Brett, I think you are on to something!!!!

Caveat emptor----let the buyer beware! $5,000+ is a lot of dough on a "maybe" with ZERO provenance!

Andrew

Utopian2630
02-27-2007, 10:21 AM
In another listing, this seller claims to have inheireted a game-used collection and is selling them (yet her husband bought the Ripken jersey back in '90). Also interesting is the seller's Pete Rose bat listing where a link is shown to 'another bat just like this', which turned out to be a Roger Clemens signed bat.

Aparently this seller isn't just limited to game-used items, they sell lottery tickets too...here's a link to a winning Mass. State Lottery Ticket.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190058137607

Since this seller is all about making deals, maybe they'll throw in a few winning lottery tickets with the Ripken jersey.

allstarsplus
02-27-2007, 01:53 PM
Aparently this seller isn't just limited to game-used items, they sell lottery tickets too...here's a link to a winning Mass. State Lottery Ticket.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190058137607


Very odd. The auction description is well thought out with no spelling errors. I don't get it as the person who wrote this can't be the same person that is responding to questions on the Ripken auction.

VALID WINNING LOTTERY TICKET - NO JOKE

This winning lottery ticket could be yours. Caesars Palace Instant win Trip Prize Caesars Palace 4 days 3 nights in a deluxe room at the Caesars Palace Hotel and Casino Ground transfers to and from Las Vegas-McCarran Internations Airport round trip coach airfare for two (2) individuals from Logan and $500.00 in cash.


Willing to meet buyer at lottery office to have instant claim You can validate this ticket by going to masslottery.com


Must be 21 years or older

Utopian2630
02-27-2007, 02:39 PM
I noticed that too when I read the listing for the lottery ticket. Similar listings for other items by that seller were also fairly coherent. Maybe someone else was responsible for selling merchandise on Ebay before the memorabelia inheiretence. If the prices were bargain basement and the seller was acting this way, I might suspect something was up (i.e. possibly selling items out of spite in some sort of divorce settlement ), but I honestly think it could be two different people writing these listings.

BTW when buying a winning lottery ticket, what sort of verification would one need? Do lottery tickets ever expire?

Canseco44
02-27-2007, 09:30 PM
I just talked to the seller (I bought the Canseco game used bat from them) and they explained to me that she is selling this stuff for her father-in-law. This may explain at least some of the things that have been going on, such as it seeming like two different people are selling. Just a thought.

Todd Ricks

mr.miracle
03-03-2007, 09:53 AM
Here is the latest exchange between several potential bidders in the Ripken jersey and pants auction on ebay and the seller. If anyone gets the sellers address I would suggest we send in the men in the white coats. There is a nice padded room reserved for this individual although the person asking the last question might need a padded room as well. This auction and the series of events around it have become so absurd at this point that it would be impossible to take this situation seriously. I have to check back daily to see what type of ridiculous question or series of questions have been asked because this is a regular comedy routine.

Enjoy

Q: did mrs. ripken were these pants and jersie thanks
Mar-02-07
http://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/s.gifA:
Ebayers name is chevy.tahoe Nice !
http://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/s.gifhttp://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/s.gifhttp://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/s.gifhttp://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/s.gifQ: So I was like wondering, when did mr calvin ripkwen ware these pantss and jersie????? thanks!!!!!!!!!
Mar-02-07
http://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/s.gifA:
Look Close In the 80s ;) 83 - 85 Walmart has a rack of cheap Glasses :)

ripkengamers
03-03-2007, 11:39 AM
Brett,

I'm just going to wait for it to reach the auction house with a Lampson LOA !:D

allstarsplus
03-03-2007, 05:40 PM
Very odd that in the March 2nd question the writer wrote "wear" as "were" and in her response answer to the March 3rd question she wrote "wear" as "were". Can you shill question yourself?????

It is beyond bizarre the quality of the questions and answers----very odd. Any thoughts?


Q:
Hello Jo Jo: I am wondering is this Chevy Tahoe guy trying to be a funny man or what? Why would Mrs. Ripken be wearing the Pants and Jersey? You said in your previous listing that it was "my time" Is it still your time? Why did you have to remove the game used Ripken batting glove from the auction? Did Ripken baseball force you to do so and why exactly? Will you have these items professionally authenticated if they do not sell? Can you give me Chevy Tahoe's email address and full name as I want to contact him to sell him some other items and to thank him for being a big stinky dope.



Mar-03-07



A:
Maybe he weres his Mrs Pants! :) Some Guy Like that stuff and some are forced to do it hehehe !! Aution ened do too the glove!! Now i Can Run Aution!! I will send them to sports aution only if no one steps up in next few hours!! Good Luck!! And Its ALLWAYS My Time :)!!!






Q:
did mrs. ripken were these pants and jersie thanks



Mar-02-07



A:
Ebayers name is chevy.tahoe Nice !






Q:
So I was like wondering, when did mr calvin ripkwen ware these pantss and jersie????? thanks!!!!!!!!!



Mar-02-07



A:
Look Close In the 80s ;) 83 - 85 Walmart has a rack of cheap Glasses :)






Q:
i am currently in spring training at the stadium in miami on my laptop, could you tell me if the jersey is signed? i can't see because of the glare from the sun let me know as i wanted this jersey for my sun freddie..Johnson Buns



Feb-27-07



A:
There is only Signing on photo!!






Q:
Complicated!!! Bottom line, what is included in this auction? Do you have any other 80's Ripken road pants avaliable for sale? harvesttrustinv@aol.com George



Feb-27-07



A:
Photo Pants jersey rookie cards other small items i and finding !! no other pants!! i Updated add after talking to ripken staff!!






Q:
hi i saw your item is your ripken jeans worn let me know freddie from miami



Feb-25-07



A:
chevy.tahoe thank you my add was stoped so now i will make it better for the buyer!!! Not just the jersey you wanted all my ripken items go!!!

mr.miracle
03-03-2007, 10:17 PM
During the first auction that the seller had these items listed, I had asked several questions and received very confusing answers to say the least. If the seller or any seller for that matter wants to be taken seriously at all especially in light of the amount of money at stake in this auction, I believe that it would be in their best interest to attempt to answer questions on some level of an intelligent manner.

This is beyond bizarre at this point. I am sure we have all received some stupid questions while running ebay auctions from time to time but I certainly don't always list the questions and or answers especially when they don't make any sense at all.

This is just plain ridiculous at this point.