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View Full Version : Who's gone crazy - me or Steiner?



kingjammy24
12-29-2005, 03:11 PM
Am I crazy or did David Wells not play for the Yankees at all in 2000, much less the 2000 World Series? Seriously. Either I'm writing this post in a bizarre dream or Steiner is re-writing rosters.

from Steinersports.com's "Bronx Game-Used jerseys" section:
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David Wells 2000 Game-used World Series Home Jersey
# WELLDJERGU2000WS
$10,000 00 IN STOCK NOW
http://www.steinersports.com/ssm/control/product/~pcategory=/~category=/~pid=WELLDJERGU2000WS
Product Details
This is an actual Game-used home jersey that David Wells wore during the 2000 World Series. A Yankees-Steiner Certificate of Authenticity is included.
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It even has the 2000 World Series patch?!?? It's #33. In 2000, #33 was worn by Soriano, Canseco, and Ryan Thompson.


Rudy.

trsent
12-29-2005, 04:33 PM
It even has the 2000 World Series patch?!?? It's #33. In 2000, #33 was worn by Soriano, Canseco, and Ryan Thompson.


So which of the three played in the World Series? Maybe it was mis-labeled by Steiner. I guess when you deal in jerseys with no names on back, front or inside maybe an error can occur? Did you contact Steiner to discuss this to see if they can determine that an error was made or did you just post this on here hoping they would see it?

If Wells is worth $10,000.00 - What is the jersey worth if properly identified as the other three players?

Soriano $10,000.00 ?
Canseco $15,000.00 ?
Thompson $50.00 ?

ahuff
12-29-2005, 05:45 PM
I would say, that based on this website, it would be Steiner.

http://www.thebaseballpage.com/players/wellsda01.php

ahuff
12-29-2005, 05:52 PM
javascript:http://cache.gettyimages.com/thumb/51567496.jpg?x=x&a=51567496&b=afp&t=1 (http://javascript<b></b>:OpenChildWindow('http://editorial.gettyimages.com/source/search/details_pop.aspx?iid=51567496&cdi=0', '', 'width=640,height=500,menubar=no,resizable=yes,scr ollbars=yes,status=no,titlebar=no,toolbar=no');)

Check out this photo!!! There is good ol #33, in the middle of the World Series celebration. Looks like Jose to me!!! For a bigger photo, check out getty images. It is most definately Jose!!!

kingjammy24
12-29-2005, 06:22 PM
Yes, it was Jose who wore #33 in the 2000 World Series. In fact, Soriano and Thompson weren't even on the rosters for the 2000 World Series. (Of course, neither was Wells).
Pay $10k for a Wells, get a Canseco. How's that for a twist.

How's this for a theory: In 1998, David Wells was on the Yankees. In 1998, the Yankees tagging included the year and the last name of the player. Wells takes about the same size jersey as Canseco - either a 48 or a 50. I'm guessing the Yankees kept Wells' 1998 jersey and gave it to Canseco for the 2000 World Series without changing any of the tagging.
I'm willing to bet the tagging on the 2000 World Series Steiner jersey reads "WELLS 1998", so Steiner just saw the 2000 World Series patch and the tagging that read "WELLS" and said "hey its a Wells 2000 World Series jersey". Worn by Canseco. For $10k, you'd think maybe Steiner could do some research.

The Yankees seem like a class act though. Imagine being fortunate enough to make the roster of the New York Yankees one day and as you walk into the clubhouse, beaming from your zillion-dollar contract, they hand you a 3 yr old, used jersey with some other guy's name sewn into it. Classy.

Rudy.

G1X
12-30-2005, 12:40 AM
I agree with Joel. Having been involved in bulk buys, I understand that mistakes can happen. The polite thing to do would be to contact the seller first and advise them of the oversight before posting the error in this Forum. We would be doing the hobby a great service by doing so - perhaps saving a potential buyer from a lot of heartache (remember, not every collector in the world reads this Forum) and much embarrassment for the seller.

On a side note, identifying who wore #33 in the World Series is information readily available from a number of sources. Ahuff is correct - Jose Canseco wore #33 in the 2000 Series and struck out in his only official plate appearance.

Mark Hayne

trsent
12-30-2005, 01:01 AM
Ahuff is correct - Jose Canseco wore #33 in the 2000 Series and struck out in his only official plate appearance.



Did Jose shoot anyone up during that series? I didn't read his book so I don't know.

kingjammy24
12-30-2005, 01:37 AM
Mark,

I posted in this forum first because I genuinely couldn't believe that Steiner had made an error like that and instead thought that somehow, somewhere I had gone wrong. I didn't contact Steiner first because I wasn't completely sure there was an error and didn't want to go embarassing myself in front of them. (Recent Christmas flu has made me a little delirious). I honestly couldn't believe they posted a $10k jersey advertised as being worn by a player who wasn't even on the team. I posted here to find out if I was missing something right in front of my face. Apparently not.
At any rate, to be honest, I don't really care to "save much embarassment" for Steiner. (I can't imagine many around here would either). Maybe I'm used to different standards, but if you charge $10k for the jersey of a minor star, then you don't have the luxury of making mistakes. This isn't some $90 jersey from a dealer at a fleamarket.
Besides, I'm almost certain it's not a typo or mis-labeled because both Wells and Canseco wear the same size jersey and both of them use #33. I suspect the jersey really is tagged as "Wells 1998" and nobody bothered to check the 2000 World Series roster. I can abide by certain mistakes but not by sloppyness. This falls into the latter. I'm starting to believe Jim Caravello was correct; they don't even know what they're selling.

By the way, Steiner's offices are closed until January anyway.

Rudy.

soxbats
12-30-2005, 11:29 AM
I for one am happy that this information was placed on the board. It reaffirms the need to check the accuracy of descriptions even when coming from an operation that has "exclusive" access to team material and team sources. For those new to the forum, it is an important lesson (at least it was for me).

Also, while I would hope that the company would be as thorough as possible in all instances, the added possibility of public disclosure of errors should cause them to be more thorough in the future.

Have a great New Year.

island_style
12-31-2005, 12:42 AM
I saw some 2000 Yankees-Steiner jerseys with a memorial armband. I thought they wore one towards the end of the 1999 season for Catfish (as well as Joe D's #5). Did the Yankees pay tribute to someone in 2000?

kingjammy24
12-31-2005, 01:26 AM
islandstyle,

not in 2000 that im aware of.

1999 - black 5 on left sleeve for dimaggio.
1999 - black armband on left sleeve for hunter
2001 - black armband for wtc victims

nothing in 2000. i'd think even the yankees would remove
memorial armbands and such for the following season.
(how long are you gonna pay tribute to dimaggio?).

anyways, here's a decent site for memorial patches etc.

http://www.baseballhalloffame.org/exhibits/online_exhibits/dressed_to_the_nines/patches.htm

rudy.

G1X
12-31-2005, 01:39 AM
Rudy,

It would be the right thing to do to contact Steiner first thing Tuesday morning and advise them of the oversight. As mentioned in my last post, this would be doing the hobby (and not just Steiner) a great service as it would prevent a misidentified item from making it into someone's collection.

Since you were the one to point out this error, it is probably appropriate for you to take credit and be the one to contact Steiner on this issue. Please let me know if you have any reservations about contacting Steiner on Tuesday and notifying them about this matter as I will make the call if you do not feel comfortable doing it. The main thing is to be sure they are notified.

Mark Hayne

bigtime59
12-31-2005, 10:02 AM
I must say I'm surprised to read that people on this forum believe Canseco and Wells wore the same size jersey in 2000. Canseco as a 48 or 50 (more likely) I can believe, but Boomer? Given that the Blue Jays 2000 Wells BP(purchased direcly from the Jays) I briefly owned was a size XXXL, I don't see him wearing either of those jersey sizes...more likely a 52 or 54.

pjbmd
12-31-2005, 01:20 PM
From what I've seen Boomer is usually a 56 stock jersey with +4 tag
All the 2000 jersyes i've seen have a black arm band on the left sleeve(...maybe for scooter....just kidding I forget who it was for)
PJB

Swoboda4
12-31-2005, 02:09 PM
Just for argument sake--If you got this "Wells" jersey without doing your homework and then realized later it was Canseco's, used for that one plate appearance would you keep it?

GameBats
12-31-2005, 03:50 PM
The Yankees did wear the memorial armband during the 2000 World Series. If you look closely you can see it on Cansecos left sleeve.

kingjammy24
12-31-2005, 04:37 PM
Wow, so much to respond to. (Honestly, I don't think half as much analysis goes on inside the big auction houses or authentication companies as goes on in this forum).

re: canseco & wells jersey sizes.
Bigtime: I don't think it was 'people' who believed Canseco and Wells wore the same size jersey, it was me! I'm the culprit. You're completely right though. They didn't wear the same size. (I failed to realize how gargantuan Boomer has gotten. Who'd have thought he'd take a bigger jersey than Cecil Fielder or McGwire?!).
Anyways, Canseco would've taken a 48 or 50 in 2000 and Boomer a 54 or 56. It's a fact that Canseco wore #33 in the 2000 World Series and Boomer was off from playing the year in Toronto.
So either:
a) the Steiner jersey is a typo. Somebody fell asleep at the wheel and typed "Wells" instead of "Canseco" twice.
b) Canseco wore Wells' old size 54/56 jersey for the 2000 World Series? I still think it's too much of a coincidence that they're both #33 and the largest guys on the Yankees.
Any other possible explanations or insight into what this jersey really is?
Steiner doesn't say what size the jersey is. They also don't show a picture of the tagging. Both of those would solve this mystery.

re: 2000 black armbands.
Woops. The Yankees wore black armbands on their left sleeve in 2000 to honor the passing of Bob Lemon who died January 11, 2000.
Oddly enough this information is absent from both Bill Henderson's guide and the Baseball HOF list of 'memorial patches/armbands'.

Swoboda:
Personally I'd keep it because I like Canseco. But I'd also never buy a Wells to start with. So maybe in my case, I wouldn't have bought it because it was a Wells and then would've been disappointed to later learn it was really a Canseco and I missed out on it.
I imagine most people who thought they were getting a Wells and got a Canseco instead wouldn't be too pleased?


Rudy.

G1X
12-31-2005, 04:58 PM
Rudy,

You must have overlooked my post (#12). Please let me know.

If you are the one who makes the call, you might get answers to the following questions in your last post:
"So either:
a) the Steiner jersey is a typo. Somebody fell asleep at the wheel and typed "Wells" instead of "Canseco" twice.
b) Canseco wore Wells' old size 54/56 jersey for the 2000 World Series? I still think it's too much of a coincidence that they're both #33 and the largest guys on the Yankees.
Any other possible explanations or insight into what this jersey really is?
Steiner doesn't say what size the jersey is. They also don't show a picture of the tagging. Both of those would solve this mystery.
ery.

It will be interesting to hear what you find out.

Mark Hayne

kingjammy24
12-31-2005, 06:05 PM
Mark,

I will contact them. I'll also see if they can send me a
photo of the tagging. For some reason I think Jose has
a better chance at making the majors in 2006 than I do
of getting a pic from them, but I'll try.

Rudy.

Fraudfinder!!
12-31-2005, 06:56 PM
"The polite thing to do would be to contact the seller first and advise them of the oversight before posting the error in this Forum. We would be doing the hobby a great service by doing so - perhaps saving a potential buyer from a lot of heartache (remember, not every collector in the world reads this Forum) and much embarrassment for the seller."


I could not disagree more with the above statement. In my opinion, Rudy did the hobby a "great service" by pointing this out. I really do not believe that the folks at Steiner are or will be embarrassed by this revelation. My biggest fear is now they will market the jersey as a gamer worn by both and Wells and Canseco and the new price will be $25.000!

G1X
01-01-2006, 12:42 PM
Rudy,
Thanks. It will be interesting to see how Steiner responds.

Fraudfinder,
In my humble opinion, as both a collector and a dealer, I would certainly hope that someone would point out an error to me and give me a chance to correct it before making a post in a forum such as this. I don't think that anyone is doubting that Rudy did a fine job in discovering this error, it was just my thought that perhaps we should have pointed this out to Steiner and get their response before making a post. If they won't respond quickly or refuse to fix it immediately, then we can shout about it long and loud in this Forum. On the other hand, if they fix the error, then it ends up being a good story (well, at least to some degree as the price of the jersey is another story).

Again, we have to remember that not every collector in the world reads this Forum, so it's best to go to the source to give them a chance to correct the mistake before someone ends up with a misidentified jersey in their collection. Most sellers want to get it right, and any assistance any of us can ever give them to get it right is probably most appreciated.


Mark Hayne

metsbats86
01-01-2006, 11:12 PM
The Yankees wore blackarm bands on their 2000 jerseys to honor Bob Lemon who died that year.

-Regards David

Fraudfinder!!
01-02-2006, 01:21 PM
Mark,

Your points are well taken. My main view, which I did not convey, was that I do not believe a company that would charge $50,000 for a game used batting helment from 2005 ,would be "embarrassed" about anything. But you are right, the prices Steiner charges are are probably a topic for another post. Thanks.

kingjammy24
01-03-2006, 06:04 PM
Steiner has removed the jersey from their Website due to the "mis-labelling". I spoke with them regarding the jersey and they say it is a Canseco and are now charging $2500 for it.
Regarding the source of the error, they said it was simply a typo on their part and that the tagging does not have a player's name on it.
I wonder how they came up with the original $10k price?

Rudy.

trsent
01-03-2006, 07:13 PM
Steiner has removed the jersey from their Website due to the "mis-labelling". I spoke with them regarding the jersey and they say it is a Canseco and are now charging $2500 for it.
Regarding the source of the error, they said it was simply a typo on their part and that the tagging does not have a player's name on it.
I wonder how they came up with the original $10k price?


Now, if David Wells was $10,000.00, I would think Canseco at $2500.00 would be a steal. Am I right?

DonFan23
01-03-2006, 08:53 PM
Did they mention if there was a pouch sewn into the inside of the jersey for the 'roids needles, similar to the pouch Earl Weaver had for his smokes?

bigtime59
01-04-2006, 09:10 AM
Now, if David Wells was $10,000.00, I would think Canseco at $2500.00 would be a steal. Am I right?

Not by my reckoning, no. I believe that $2500 for a modern-era player of Canseco's "stature" is about $2000 too much. Of course, the fact that I can't afford to drop $2500 on anybody's jersey could be affecting my judgement here, as could the fact that I loathe and detest the Yankee$.

G1X
01-04-2006, 06:05 PM
Rudy,

Thanks for providing the updated information on this issue. It's good to see that Steiner made the correction. Now, if they will only get right with the prices . . .

Mark Hayne