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imlemonysnicket
03-25-2007, 07:48 PM
Hi

A friend recently picked up this Yaz bat and asked if I could gather some information for him. The bat seems to date to 1977-1979 labeling era. It measures 35 inches and weighs 31.5 ounces (there is a piece missing from the back of the barrel that would probably add an ounce or two). The bat is a K48 model and nothing is stamped on the knob - there is some faded black marker but I can't make out what it was.

After reading some other posts on the forum it seems he did not order this model during this era. Is this a promotional bat? Any help would be appreciated.

brett

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b313/vintagebrett/Gloves%20For%20Forum/yaz2.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b313/vintagebrett/Gloves%20For%20Forum/yaz1.jpg

bat_master
03-25-2007, 07:51 PM
Hi Brett,

That would appear to be what is known as a team index bat. An index bat is generally a bat that would have been ordered by any team or player for use, just not necessarily the player named on the bat.

Yaz did order K48 bats, but not during the 77-79 era.

Hope this helps and I would expect other will chime in soon.

MSpecht
03-26-2007, 12:26 PM
Hi Brett --

Here is info regarding Yaz' ordering records, and a repost regarding bats that do not match factory records. In this case, it is important also to note that K48 is Yaz' Pro Stock Model, which greatly increases the liklihood that it is a team index bat.

Early in his career Yaz used several models, including S2, K48, B211, R43 and R45. From July, 1971 he ordered Model W215 over 90 % of the time through 1976. Other much less frequently ordered models during that period were orders of W166, Wi83, P89, K55 and B267. From 1976 through 1981 orders of the following models are documented; P89, W215, D113, B267, C243, R206, and M110, with no particular preference. Bat lengths between 34 inches and 36 inches are documented, with 35 inch and 36 inch bats most characteristic of Yaz' orders.

For those who are interested, Yaz is responsible for Model Y14 on 4/26/60 using a C28 barrel and S2 handle. Apparently it didn't turn out as he had hoped, as he never ordered that bat again.

If a bat is identified as a professional model bat, yet doesn't match the records, there are several possible reasons:

1) The most logical explanation is that the bat was a team ordered, or team index bat, ordered by the team for use by any player, Major or Minor League, in the organization. These bats were generally ordered in the most popular models, upwards of 100 to 500 at a time, and requested to have players on the team's signatures on the bats (assuming those players had existing endorsement contracts with H & B.). Many times the 'popular models' had a player's name attached as it was the player's Pro Stock model. (i.e. Mantle K55 bats -- there are many more in existence than he actually ordered as it was not his 'favored' model throughoput his career, but was his Pro Stock model.) These team index bats are professional model bats and often exhibit various amounts of professional use. The problem is that the use is often unable to be directly attributed to a specific player. As Jim mentioned above, you have to look very close at the use characteristics, and many times that is not definitive toward any specific player.

2) There are instances of players ordering bats stamped with other players names. In most cases, however, those orders are going to be recorded in the ordering player's factory records. In Bobby Richardson's case, he ordered bats throughout his career with the signatures of other players stamped on the barrel label, including Nellie Fox, Don Mueller, Bob Cerv, and, in particular, Wally Moses. Willie Stargell often had Gene Freese's signature stamped on bats he ordered for his use. All of these orders are contained Richardson's and Stargell's personal factory records (in the examples above), not in the records of Fox, Cerv, etc.

On the flip side, however, players who thought another player would get preferential treatment (better quality wood) from the manufacturer, would generally have that teammate order a specific model/length/weight from H & B.. This scenario is seen in the records when there are one or two orders for, say, Johnny Bench, of a model he never used before or after, and in dimensions that were atypical of his documented ordering pattern throughgout his career. What's the scenario here? Either Bench was trying out a new model/length/weight and ultimately didn't like it, or a teammate asked Bench to order the bats as if Bench were ordering the bats for his (Bench's) personal use and getting "preferential Bench treatment" in terms of quality. Either scenario is possible, so it comes down to which scenario is most comfortable to you as a collector. Personally, if the 'random model' also differs significantly from the player's pattern in length and weight, I believe it is unlikely that he ordered it for himself. This is also seen frequently in the records of many Latin American players who ordered a wide variety of assorted models and lengths/weights at the end of the season, and sent them to various youth leagues in their native countries.

3) Are there holes in the records? The answer varies depending on which of the four basic "records" periods you are discussing. Pre- 1920, there are very few records that have surfaced,with various amounts of information beyond, for example, Roger Bresnahan's "His Old Model" being dated 5/20/1911 and indexed at 34 inches.

From 1920 to 1929, many more records exist, most of which contain specific information regarding models, lengths, and weights. The records are considered to be incomplete, but they often provide sufficient information with which to form logical, reasoned opinions regarding a player's preferences and ordering patterns.

From 1930 to 1981, the use of record cards for individual players recorded orders shipped to players for their use, and team records recorded the shipments of team ordered bats for organizational use. These records are much more complete than either of the two preceding types of records, but most authenticators believe that holes in these records also exist. More liberal authenticators believe that many holes exist in these records than do more conservative authenticators.

From 1981 to the present day, records are computerized, and include not only orders shipped to the player for his professional use, but also orders shipped to a team for promotional purposes, various marketing companies, other .entities within baseball, etc. The information found in these records is often the most complete and include more information than the previous records

As always, the key is do your own research, ask questions of those who may have additional resources available, and determine your own personal comfort level.

Finally, when you are considering the purchase of an item, be sure to read AND UNDERSTAND any LOA or Cert that comes with it. For example, there are several Adirondack "D" series bats currently in Ebay auction that have been cert'ed, but when you read the LOA carefully, it states that there is no evidence of Adirondack "D" series bats being used professionally. Unfortunately, there is no mention of these certs in the auctions, and you have to do some hunting to find out the information. For that kind of money, however, the hunt is worth it.

Mike Jackitout7@aol.com (Jackitout7@aol.com)

imlemonysnicket
03-26-2007, 10:46 PM
Hi

Thank you very much for the information - it is very helpful and I will be sure to clearly say this is a team index bat when it goes up for sale.

brett