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View Full Version : Patches on Yankees Steiner jerseys



kingjammy24
01-04-2006, 06:33 PM
I followed with interest the recent thread(s) regarding the Jackie Robinson patch issue on Steiner Yankee jerseys.

I have a couple of ideas regarding why certain 1997-tagged Steiner Yankees jerseys, which should have the JR patch, do not show evidence of ever having had this patch. (If a Steiner Yankees jersey shows evidence of the patch having been removed, then I think you can assume the jersey was used in 1997 as well as the following year; possibly by another player).

1) If Russell was responsible for sewing the JR patch: I wonder if the Yankees placed a few orders in 1997 for some 'spares/blanks' without the patch. The Yankees then received these 'spares' along with the JR-affixed jerseys and automatically added their '1997' year tagging to all of them. However, since they were spares and did not have the JR patch, they were not used in 1997. These jerseys were then used in 1998, leading to their exhibiting game use. In 1998, the Yankees did not have any patches or armbands as far as I know.

2) If the Yankees were responsible for sewing the JR patch on: I wonder if they received in their 1997 stock of jerseys, sewed 1997 year tagging on all of them, sewed the JR patch on a certain number, and as in the hypothesis above, they did not use the non-JR, '1997' tagged jerseys in 1997 and instead used them in 1998.

The conundrum to me is how a jersey is tagged '1997', exhibits good game use and yet has no evidence of the JR patch ever existing.

Last night I was on the Steiner website and saw what looked to be a great deal in their current auction - a 1994 Danny Tartabull game-used road jersey and pants set. Opening bid was $300. This uniform had also been on their last auction and failed to draw a single bid. I thought $300 for this set was a steal. Before I was about to bid, I noticed there was no "125 yr" patch. No mention of it.
Tartabull played for the Yankees in 1995 using the same #45 so maybe they removed it and he used the jersey in 1995 as well? I suppose it entirely rests on whether there is evidence of a patch once being on the sleeve. If there is, then it seems you're getting a jersey that Tartabull used for 2 seasons. An even bigger steal for $300. If there's no evidence of a patch ever existing, then ..??

I saw 2 more jerseys on their site - a 1997 Andy Pettite game-used road jersey ($7500) and a 1997 Kenny Rogers game-used road jersey. Neither of these have the Jackie Robinson patch and there is no mention of what happened to it.
Rogers played for Oakland in 1998 so either the patch was removed in order to re-use the jersey for Dale Sveum in 1998, the jersey never had the JR patch but was tagged as "Rogers 1997" and simply used by Sveum in 1998, or ..?? (The jersey doesn't look like it's got 2 seasons worth of wear).
Pettite played for the Yankees in 1997 and 1998 (and onwards) using #46 so if there was evidence of a patch being removed, you're most likely getting a jersey used very heavily by Pettite. If there's no evidence of a patch, then..??


Rudy.

trsent
01-05-2006, 05:37 AM
Rudy, from the what have I have learned file of my brain:

All year tagging is done at Russell. Teams do not get blank jerseys and add there own year tag. You have said this a few times, this does not happen.

kingjammy24
01-05-2006, 01:21 PM
Joel,

Isn't it common knowledge that most of the year/player tagging is done at local shops? (I'm not talking about the universal "1991 Set 1" type flag tag that Rawlings used in all of their mid 80's-mid 90's jerseys). I'm talking about the embroidered type tags and paper tags with computer-printed names/numbers.

To the best of my knowledge, this is what happens:

1) the Yankees place an order with Russell. The order sheet specifies player names/numbers, the total number of jerseys for each player, any specific alterations for an individual player (+/- length, etc), and any year-long patches to be sewn on.

2) Russell produces this order and ships it to the Yankees. In this order,
Russell has sewn on the names, numbers, and patches.

3) Once the jerseys arrive, the Yankees employ a local shop to sew on
year/player tagging. The "Mattingly 86" strip tagging in the neck, for
example, seen in the mid-late 80's would've been done by a local shop,
not by Rawlings.

There was a thread here I read the other day about a Pedro Martinez Mets jersey, for example, and a poster mentioned that some place in Queens called Stiches does the year/set/player tagging for the Mets.

Anyone else have any insight?

Rudy.

trsent
01-05-2006, 02:04 PM
Rudy, that is the first time in over twenty years in this business that I have ever heard anything like that.

All tagging is done at Russell or other manufacturers. Local shops do not add strip or name tags to the jerseys. In the old days, local shops would add there own tag to Sand-Knit jerseys, common in basketball and football. The Mets article you were talking about, I believe, that the company adds names and numbers to the jerseys but not tagging.

Just my insight...

kingjammy24
01-05-2006, 03:24 PM
Joel you may be entirely right. Or entirely wrong :p
Personally, I've wondered for awhile about exactly where, when, and how a game-worn jersey gets fully assembled. Perhaps this conversation will answer many questions for me (and others).

I've already stated my beliefs. Here is Bill Henderson's take on the topic, as excerpted from his reference guide: (Yes it's long but hey..reading is good for you).
If anyone else has any insight whatsoever, please chime in!

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"1. At the start of the season the equipment manager needs to decide how many uniforms he needs to order. Because the uniforms need to be ready on opening day, reasonable guesses must be made sometime during Spring Training who is going to be on the opening day roster. He makes a list of all the possible opening day players, along with their complete measurements and special tailoring requirements (like 2" longer jersey length, or longer sleeves). He makes sure he has an accurate list of who is wearing which numbers, and double checks how names are spelled....
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- interesting story of my own here: a forum member informed me of a Yankees Steiner jersey he saw which was tagged "1994 Maas". (Yes our old friend Kevin Maas). The jersey also had a number change from #24 (Maas' number) to #45 (Danny Tartabull's number). Here's the interesting part: Maas was formally released by the Yankees on March 29, 1994 and therefore did not play for the Yankees in 1994. Instead, Maas' #24 was worn by Russ Davis. So either Maas' jersey was worn in 1994 by Russ Davis and then given to Tartabull for part of 1995 before he took off for Oakland or they simply gave Tartabull the Maas' jersey in 1994. Either way, it seems Tartabull, and not Dave Justice, was out there "playing in Kevin Maas' old jersey". I was close! har har. At any rate, it seems teams receive their regular season jerseys in early-mid March.
Back to Bill Henderson..
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"2. He then may send the list to the team contracted sewing shop. (Often family-run in a small and dingy shop on an industrial back alley, the lettering shop might have been doing the work for the team since Rogers Hornsby was a rookie) and a complete set of embroidered "inventory tags" are sewn up on a blank uniform cloth...The ad hoc code to this list of numbers is simple: Size, Player Number, Year, Set Number. Every team uses its own code.
3. Now, from a huge pile of home jerseys the equipment manager or the sewing shop selects a size 40 jersey, cuts the first tag off the strip and sews the tag inside the shirt tail, outside the shirt tail, inside the neck or whatever. If the team uses the tiny name tags, he will sew the player's name in too. Next he finds a size 44, snips off the second tag and sews it in. This continues until all 40 or so home jerseys are done. Then the process is repeated for the road jerseys using an identical set of tags embroidered on road jersey colored fabric.
4. When the jersey lettering is to be done, they go first to the worker who has an enormous pile of pre-cut tackle twill numbers. If they are 2-color numbers, the two colors of the number are often already sewn together. Now, the worker simply has to look at the tag sewn in the jersey and he knows what numbers to pick from his bins. He sprays adhesive on and sticks them to the jersey, back and front, They go into another big pile and are carted off to the lady with the sewing machine who then stitches all the numbers on.
5. Meanwhile, names are sewn on blank nameplates from another list, or by referencing the small nametag already sewn in the jersey as a guide. Eventually the nameplates will be matched to the jerseys and the final sewing will be done. If the team doesn't use nameplates, the names are sewn on individually. Now all the uniforms can be returns to the team and issued to the players.
...Nowadays, many uniforms are supplied directly to the team by the manufacturer (like Majestic or Rawlings) with all player numbers and names sewn on already. A computer generates the automated work order to ensure that the right numbers are sewn on. Computer-driven laser cutting machines cut the twill letters and numbers as they are needed. Federal Experess delivers them to the team the next day. No mess, no fuss. This automated process probably explains the disappearance of team tagging from many recent team uniforms. Technology is replacing the litlte old man with the sewing machine in the back room. He's just not needed any more.
As of this writing, Majestic still sews the numbers and names on its uniforms by hand, with people using manual sewing machines. The others have switched to mostly automatic machine sewn lettering.
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Bill expounds on the term "Team Issued" - "This general term means to me that the jersey was manufactured to the team's specifications and was intended for game use. Often these jerseys have a year tag sewn into them from the factory, again to the team's specifications. These jerseys may be sent in bulk to the team, to the local shop the team uses to do their name-number sewing, or may be kept at in the sewing room at the manufacturer, if the team uses the manufacturer as the source of their jersey cusomtization (Majestic, for example has the current contract for sewing the Dodgers names and numbers on the team issued jerseys. For roster players, the Dodgers order and receive most jerseys from Majestic ready to wear on the field). The team may order many extra blank jerseys to handle mid-season call-ups, trades or in the case of a uniform being damaged or lost. These jerseys might already have a year tag sewn in them from the factory."
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Phew. Hence my theory that somehow the Yankees got blanks in 1997 without the JR patch but still year-tagged with "1997". They then went on to use these in 1998. Any other possible explanations as to how a 1997 Yankees jersey can be year tagged as 97, not have any evidence whatsoever of a JR patch, AND show good game use?

Here are some scans of a Chicago White Sox jersey order placed with Russell in 1994 for those interested in what goes on behind the scenes:

http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/6420/rusorder4tt.jpg


Rudy.

kingjammy24
01-05-2006, 04:10 PM
Joel,

To clarify:

I believe all of the tags in A and B were sewn on by the manufacturer.
I believe that tagging strip-style tagging similar to that in C was done by local sewing shops. Also, please note I'm not referring to more recent jerseys but rather those up until the late 90's.

http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/5574/tags6sx.jpg

RUdy

bigtime59
01-05-2006, 09:16 PM
Let me emphasize again, with feeling, that the Orioles are a huge train wreck, with many fatalities, but I have seen alternate jerseys with the 1997 script, 1998-pattern bird and year tagging...
So, who sewed the tag on THAT?
Since the Yankees home uniforms underwent their last major redesign during the draft riots of 1864, why on earth would they bother to year tag ANYTHING?????

trsent
01-05-2006, 11:48 PM
I'm too tired to read right now, I'll read in the middle of the night when you all are sleeping.