Historic Auctions Won't Allow A Link From GUF

[Utopian2630]

If you click on any of the links from here, it says the following:


** WARNING **


It has been determined, that the site linking to ours may be unscrupulous or may have misleading facts posted on it and therefore we have blocked direct linking into our site. We appologize for any inconvenience this may cause. We encourage you to browse our site from the link below or contact us (http://www.historicauctions.com/contact/) if you have any questions.

[Eric]

It should read "It has been determined that the site linking to ours has pointed out many flaws with supporting evidence in our previous and current auction, which might save people from spending money on an item that is not properly represented. We choose not to address those issues."

Stand up and answer the questions...

This is laughable.
Eric

[ChrisCavalier]

If you click on any of the links from here, it says the following:


** WARNING **


It has been determined, that the site linking to ours may be unscrupulous or may have misleading facts posted on it and therefore we have blocked direct linking into our site. We appologize for any inconvenience this may cause. We encourage you to browse our site from the link below or contact us (http://www.historicauctions.com/contact/) if you have any questions.
Hello Everyone,

I have actually been able to link the the Historic site via this forum without receiving the message you referenced above. Is anyone still seeing that message?

Thank you in advance for your reply.

Sincerely,
Chris Cavalier

[Eric]

I still get the message. Try to click from one of our threads like this
http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=8081

I find this incredibly desperate and downright sad.

They seem to be going to new lengths to avoid dealing with the questions about their items.
Eric

[ChrisCavalier]

I still get the message. Try to click from one of our threads like this
http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=8081

This is quite interesting. When I click on the link you have attached, it takes me directly to the Strawberry jersey listing on the Historic Auctions page.

Is anyone else also getting this message?

Thanks in advance.

Sincerely,
Chris

[otismalibu]

I'm getting the warning as well.

Desperate times call for desperate measures.

[reed1216]

I'm getting the warning too. I won't be bidding with them anytime soon. Anyone going to those lengths to distance themselves from concerned collectors that act together to protect one another is not worthy of a dime from me.

[allstarsplus]

I have to give them credit that they spent a lot time and energy and maybe money paying a programmer to block out GUF links---but when I gave James Brown a year ago some constructive ideas on how to improve his auction format such as adding on the search function a way to search by description as well as search by title he never implemented that.

The other idea was after you do a search for say "Ripken" and 10 items show up, they don't have a column showing # of bids which would help to scan hot items.

Personally, I like James Brown and wish him luck. I don't understand why they won't answer the tough questions here. By the way, I also won't bid or consign right now.

My big big question though is why there are so many Lampson COAs vs. last auction using Expert Authentication. Anyone know why??????

Andrew

[reed1216]

I am relatively new to the forum, but I just read the thread that dealt with the link between turtlegirl and Historic Auctions. All I can say is WOW!!! It is amazing what people will do to make a buck. I am so glad that online forums, such as this one, are available. Thanks guys!

By the way, I emailed Historic Auctions, prior to reading the thread I mentioned above. In the email, I asked if the blocked links were intentional. I think I know the answer now...

[LWMM]

Test:
http://tinyurl.com/2l5lj8

[yankees159]

This question is for James Brown, why would you do such a thing if you have nothing to hide? Can you offer an example of how GUU has misrepresented something on in one of your auctions or your company? If you are a company with high ethical standards ,this website will benefit you. What's more, you will always have an opportunity to address any questions or concerns about your company's integrity or products.

In order for me to continue to bid in your auctions, I'd like to better understand why you have decided to do this?

[jon_8_us]

Unbelievable!!!

jon

[allstarsplus]

This question is for James Brown, why would you do such a thing if you have nothing to hide? Can you offer an example of how GUU has misrepresented something on in one of your auctions or your company? If you are a company with high ethical standards ,this website will benefit you. What's more, you will always have an opportunity to address any questions or concerns about your company's integrity or products.

In order for me to continue to bid in your auctions, I'd like to better understand why you have decided to do this?

Yankees159 - Why would James do such a thing?

The only reason I would think is that they continually think this Forum is a non-factor on their overall auction results.

Many of us on GUU/GUF are business people and make macro decisions about our businesses that can have a long-term impact. If you are in the game-used business, why wouldn't you join and contribute to this Forum?

I am talking about people like Steve at VA, and Victor at AMI and James at Historic for example.

So long as guys like Eric choose to consign Cone and Brosius jerseys with Vintage Authentics which of course he is entitled to do, and others bid and consign there then we are a non-factor in my opinion as we are not having any significant outcome on their profits. I don't even think VA responded to Eric's auction questionaire.

I chose this past Fall to only consign with Lelands and Huggins & Scott and have much respect for Robert Edwards. This is my personal choices. I have done business with Mastro in the past and didn't like the fact they had Yankees game used jerseys with Lampson COAs and never cared much to respond to my concerns. I consigned and also bid in the past with Historic, but have decided not to bid where Lampson is authenticating.

Call this my own personal boycott. Trust me, when I saw the Redskins jerseys at AMI with Game Exclusives COA's I was really tempted but stuck to my position and didn't bid.

When the Imus flap happened, I don't think his employers would have severed ties with Imus until the advertisers like AMEX and Coca Cola and others started to pull their ad dollars. You hit them big in the pocket---then they will respond. The NAACP is a powerful Forum.

In the meantime, Historic comically blocks links from this site. Pathetic in my opinion.

Andrew

[jon_8_us]

I will boycott as well.
jon

[Eric]

I keep trying to go to the Historic Auctions site and I keep getting a message
************************************************
WARNING:
Your concerns are being ignored.
************************************************
Does anyone know if there's some kind of software patch to fix this?

Speaking of "going away" let's all remember the details for the Operation Bullpen-type book about the FBI arrests in game used fraud.

[camarokids]

I received the messsage as well on all links provided on this thread.

I think that whoever has the proof of wrong doing should contact the FBI and inform them about the fraud . If they ship USPS ? The Postmaster Generals investigative arm would get involved . From what I have read ,it doesn't look good for them . If it is true ,then they are idiot, scum bag, con-artists that deserve to be in jail .

Then they will have to play a different kind-of game and get passed around like a $20.00 *hore from Linebacker sized men .

[CollectGU]

Andrew,

I can't speak about other auction houses, but I know that AMI is no longer relying on Lou as their sole authenticator. When an item comes in, it is first looked at my staff members who have experience dealing with gameused collectibles. If there are glaring problems or if the item shows no wear, it is returned before any authenticator looks at it. If it gets through depending on the item, it may be looked at by multiple authenticators including Bob Case for vintage baseball and football, Rich Ellis for hockey, Denny Eskin for Pittsburgh Pirates and Steelers and gloves, and Lou. AMI has also reached out at times to some forum members like Rob Steinmetz and some other authorities like Ed Dolan for opinions. Ther are many items that come in with Lou's LOA's from other auction houses that are rejected by AMI. I have had this happen to me first hand. It is not perfect but they are getting much better with each auction. Finally, those items that do make it through that are found to be incorrect are being pulled from the auction.

I wouldn't expect many auction houses to be responding to the forum anymore. The GUU forum has now become an auction house and will be in direct comptetition with other auction houses.

Regards,
Dave

[reed1216]

I think all this is not just a black eye for auction houses like Historic, but for everyone involved in this arena of collecting. Holding those responsible for the fraud that is rampant is just a slice of the problem. The overall effect of this hits all of us, from dealer to collector.

I have reached a point where I am having a great deal of trouble purchasing anything that doesn't come directly from a team and is documented as such. Faking wear, adding accessories to equipment and the abundance of game issued items provide me with enough of a concern to beware. There are dealers of the highest calliber that access stuff straight from the teams. However, five or ten years from now, when I might wish to resell the items I may buy today, who's to say that these items, if they lack sufficient documentaion, won't be viewed as every bit as legit as the items bought by turtlegirl and resold by Historic??

There is no way that I will purchase an item that is authenticated by Lampson, unless there is a team cert. as well. Likewise, there will have to be a flock of pigs flying overhead, before I bid on anything offered by Historic Auctions. Given what has transpired with Mastro, despite having positive experiences with them in the past, this buffoonery that has taken place with the Winslow helmet is too big of a deal to ignore.

I absolutely agree that these auction houses will not adjust their business policies untill they get hit in the wallet. The thing is that untill we collectors adjust our buying habits, we will all pay indirectly. I could list 20 game worn items over the past 90 days that I have passed on because of the lack of team documentation. I should further note that every one of them has tempted me and the vast majority of them have been offered (or are currently being offered) by dealers that I consider to be of the highest integrity.

I would hope that the dealers that purchase from teams increase their efforts to insist on team LOAs when completing their transactions. That will help the overall situation, as well as themselves. First, it will help to differentiate the real from the fake and secondly, it will add value to the items they are selling. It would also discredit the fraudulent portion of the hobby, as has been the case with non-Steiner post 1990 Yankee stuff.

Lastly, while the auction houses like Historic may not feel this forum is significant enough to merrit attention, I would caution them that word travels fast. I am 37 years old and have collected for over 30 years, beginning with baseball cards and gravitating towards game used stuff. I joined this site, just a few months ago and now rely heavily upon it for information that may protect me from making ignorant purchases, as well as gaining a better understanding for the items I currently own. I would expect the membership here to continue to grow and the "significance" to continue to increase.

[allstarsplus]

Andrew,

I know that AMI is no longer relying on Lou as their sole authenticator.

I wouldn't expect many auction houses to be responding to the forum anymore. The GUU forum has now become an auction house and will be in direct comptetition with other auction houses.

Regards,
DaveDave - Firstly, it doesn't matter if Lou is a lead or secondary authenticator. If Lou is authenticating---I am boycotting. Simple end of story.

Second, if the reason AMI all of a sudden won't respond to Eric because GUU is a competitor in the auction business then what happened prior to a month ago before GUU got into the auction business. When was the last time Victor responded himself to a Post?????

I see smart Auction Houses like Robert Edwards and others grasping the power of eBay and working with them instead of discarding them as a competitor.

If you are serious about your competitor statement, I think you have to look at the Forum portion of GUU as a mutually exclusive entity from the Auction portion which I truly believe it is.

Andrew

[kingjammy24]

an odd little thing..

when you look up the domain info for:
lelands.com
mastronet.com
robertedwardsauctions.com
greyflannelauctions.com
bricolsportsauction.com
americanmemorabilia.com
gameuseduniverse.com

they all list the registrants name, phone number and mailing address of the business.

historicauctions.com is the only auction house i can see that pays for the domain registrar to hide all of their information. their domain info doesn't even show a registrant's name!

http://www.networksolutions.com/whois/results.jsp?domain=historicauctions.com

what's next.. a p.o. box and an unlisted phone number for a speedy getaway when things get hot? i've never seen a business that goes to such lengths to hide information about itself. then again, i've never seen a business that's banned an entire forum of over 1000 members before either. that's some great marketing!

rudy.

[Eric]

while the auction houses like Historic may not feel this forum is significant enough to merrit attention, I would caution them that word travels fast.

I think it's quite the opposite. They went to quite an extreme to discredit the voices on this site. Instead of answering questions, and working to nurture potential customers, this is the direction they chose to go in. It's a calculated move to stick their fingers in their ears and pretend questions are not being asked about buying items as 'issued' and selling as 'game used,' offering issued score board items and selling them as ' game used,' not revealing conflicts of interest where some items consigned to their last auction were also authenticated by the same person.

It's all calculated. It's an effort to take your money. I'm offended by this behavior and I hope everyone lining their pockets with our cash pays the price and pays for their mistakes.

It all catches up to you. Doesn't matter how righteous you pretend to be. Doesn't matter how well you dodge the questions.

They're still out there.

Instead of answering questions they block the questions. That's enough of an answer for me.

No one is fooled here gentlemen.
Eric

[CollectGU]

Dave - Firstly, it doesn't matter if Lou is a lead or secondary authenticator. If Lou is authenticating---I am boycotting. Simple end of story.

Second, if the reason AMI all of a sudden won't respond to Eric because GUU is a competitor in the auction business then what happened prior to a month ago before GUU got into the auction business. When was the last time Victor responded himself to a Post?????

I see smart Auction Houses like Robert Edwards and others grasping the power of eBay and working with them instead of discarding them as a competitor.

If you are serious about your competitor statement, I think you have to look at the Forum portion of GUU as a mutually exclusive entity from the Auction portion which I truly believe it is.

Andrew

Andrew,

Victor has never responded himself to a post. The forum portion of GUU is not exclusive. Simply, look at how many forum posts recently have ended with forummercials for GUU auctions. I can think of at leats 5 off the top of my head wiithin the last week. This forum has been used at times to puch the auction house it now uses. There is nothing wrong with that, as this is a business, but don't pretend that they are exclusive of one another.

Also, Huggins and Scott who you endorse made a big error on the Leiter jersey they sold as game used and then it ended up on ebay as game used and was sold as such to someone. Why is this misstep any better than Lou's? Because they didn't know and made a mistake? Ignorance is no excuse, and now a bad Leiter is out in the hobby. Should we boycott them? The answer of course is no.

regards,
Dave

[reed1216]

Eric,

Their response, as proposed by another member here, was one of desperation. I suppose you could view it as their going to great lengths to discredit this site, but I think that when the dust settles, all they have really done is go to great lengths to discredit themselves. A provider of goods and services can only progress so far, in the long run, by plugging their ears. I would suggest that the thousands of members of this site are all a little more educated and as a result, will think twice before putting some of their hard earned cash in the pockets of unscrupulous entities.

[RobSteinmetz]

If it gets through depending on the item, it may be looked at by multiple authenticators including Bob Case for vintage baseball and football, Rich Ellis for hockey, Denny Eskin for Pittsburgh Pirates and Steelers and gloves, and Lou. AMI has also reached out at times to some forum members like Rob Steinmetz and some other authorities like Ed Dolan for opinions.

Forum Members,

Just to clarify the statement above from Dave O'Brien, I have never conducted any formal authentications for American Memorabilia. There have been instances where I have been emailed photographs from employees of AMI asking for my opinion, but I have never had a formal authentication arrangement with American Memorabilia, nor have I ever physically examined an item at their request.

[CollectGU]

Forum Members,

Just to clarify the statement above from Dave O'Brien, I have never conducted any formal authentications for American Memorabilia. There have been instances where I have been emailed photographs from employees of AMI asking for my opinion, but I have never had a formal authentication arrangement with American Memorabilia, nor have I ever physically examined an item at their request.


Rob,

I apologize if I wasn't clear. I simply was trying to state as you wrote above, that they have reached out in good faith for an opinion in the past ...

[yankees159]

Andrew,

1.I can't speak about other auction houses, but I know that AMI is no longer relying on Lou as their sole auuthenticator.

2. I wouldn't expect many auction houses to be responding to the forum anymore. The GUU forum has now become an auction house and will be in direct comptetition with other auction houses.

Regards,
Dave


Hi Dave:

If I may ask a few questions:

1. Are you associated with AMI, for the tone of your post seems to sound like you have intimate knowlege of their business practice?

2.Regarding your question of lack of responses from other Auction houses, why would they respond to ligitimate questions that may result in forcing them to pull an item that is fake? Like I've mentioned in previous posts if you have nothing to hide, this website can be a great benifit to your auction business. When GUF starts auctions, I will feel extremly comfortible bidding on items. However, I would be hesitate to try to sumbit a fradulent items with experts such as Rudy and Eric on the lookout.

So Dave, if your not with AMI and you have legitimate items that you would like to sell, why wouldn't you utilize GUF? You obviously think enough about this website to frequently post your opinions.

This is an awesome vehicle for the collecting community and has the potential to clean up the industry and protect our investments in game used items. If you have integrity, this website is good for your business.

[reed1216]

Here's my email corresponence with James Brown, from Historic Auctions...

Date:Wed, 18 Apr 2007 17:02:44 -0700 (PDT)From:"Reed Stewart" <reedstewart2000@yahoo.com> http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/us/pim/el/abook_add_1.gifAdd to Address Book (javascript:document.frmAddAddrs.submit()) http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/nt/ic/ut/bsc/txtmess12_1.gifAdd Mobile Alert (http://us.f318.mail.yahoo.com/ym/ShowLetter?MsgId=964_6025353_793857_689_2230_0_284 94_8110_2806563423&Idx=3&YY=72270&y5beta=yes&y5beta=yes&inc=25&order=down&sort=date&pos=0&view=a&head=b&box=Sent#)Subject:RE: Game used universeTo:"James Brown" <James@HistoricAuctions.com> #message { overflow:auto; visibility:hidden }
YAHOO.Shortcuts.hasSensitiveText = true;YAHOO.Shortcuts.doUlt = false;YAHOO.Shortcuts.location = "us";YAHOO.Shortcuts.lang = "us";YAHOO.Shortcuts.document_id = 32;YAHOO.Shortcuts.document_type = "";YAHOO.Shortcuts.document_title = "";YAHOO.Shortcuts.document_publish_date = "";YAHOO.Shortcuts.document_author = "";YAHOO.Shortcuts.annotationSet = {lw_1176947764_0: {text: 'universe.com',startchar: 143,endchar: 154,start: 143,end: 154,weight: 1,type: ['shortcuts:/us/place/virtual/web_site']},lw_1176947764_1: {text: 'James Brown',startchar: 313,endchar: 323,start: 313,end: 323,weight: 0.35,type: ['shortcuts:/us/tag/celebrity', 'shortcuts:/us/instance/person/musician']},lw_1176947764_2: {text: 'James@HistoricAuctions.com',startchar: 329,endchar: 354,start: 329,end: 354,weight: 1,type: ['shortcuts:/us/instance/identifier/email_address']},lw_1176947764_3: {text: 'http://www.HistoricAuctions.com',startchar: 2097,endchar: 2127,start: 2097,end: 2127,weight: 1,type: ['shortcuts:/us/instance/identifier/hyperlink/http'],metaData: {linkHref: "http://www.historicauctions.com/",linkProtocol: "http",linkRel: "nofollow",linkTarget: "_blank"}},lw_1176947764_4: {text: 'Info@HistoricAuctions.com',startchar: 4174,endchar: 4198,start: 4174,end: 4198,weight: 1,type: ['shortcuts:/us/instance/identifier/email_address']},lw_1176947764_5: {text: 'new cars at Yahoo! Autos.',startchar: 5445,endchar: 5469,start: 5445,end: 5469,weight: 1,type: ['shortcuts:/us/instance/identifier/hyperlink/http'],metaData: {linkHref: "http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=48245/*http:/autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html;_ylc=X3oDMTE1YW1jcXJ2BF9TAzk3MTA3MDc 2BHNlYwNtYWlsdGFncwRzbGsDbmV3LWNhcnM-",linkProtocol: "http",linkRel: "nofollow",linkTarget: "_blank"}},lw_1176947764_6: {text: 'new cars at Yahoo! Autos.',startchar: 5795,endchar: 5819,start: 5795,end: 5819,weight: 1,type: ['shortcuts:/us/instance/identifier/hyperlink/http'],metaData: {linkHref: "http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=48245/*http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html;_ylc=X3oDMTE1YW1jcXJ2BF9TAzk3MTA3MDc 2BHNlYwNtYWlsdGFncwRzbGsDbmV3LWNhcnM-",linkProtocol: "http",linkRel: "nofollow",linkTarget: "_blank"}}};YAHOO.Shortcuts.overlaySpaceId = "97546169";YAHOO.Shortcuts.hostSpaceId = "97546168";Hi James,

I was hoping that you could tell me why the links are blocked from game used universe.com (http://universe.com/)? Are there issues over there that I should be aware of? Thanks in advance.

Regards,
Reed

James Brown <James@HistoricAuctions.com> wrote:

#yiv83231601 v\:* {}#yiv83231601 o\:* {}#yiv83231601 w\:* {}#yiv83231601 .shape {}Reed,

If you are having any problems accessing our site, please visit the following link: http://www.HistoricAuctions.com (http://www.historicauctions.com/)

If you have any additional problems, please let me know.



--
James





From: Reed Stewart [mailto:reedstewart2000@yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2007 3:20 PM
To: Info@HistoricAuctions.com
Subject: Game used universe


To whom it may concern,



I attempted to browse your auction through game used universe and was unable to do so. Is the block intentional, or is there a glitch in the system?? Please let me know, as I would like to participate in your auction. However, I will not do so if you are trying to distance yourselves from concerned collectors who attempt to protect one another from potentially questionable items.



Thanks in advance,

Reed

I am not expecting an explanation any time soon.

[reed1216]

Well, that was a disaster.:eek: In short, he gave me another link to the auction and neglected to address my question. Sorry for the last post.

[CollectGU]

Hi Dave:

If I may ask a few questions:

1. Are you associated with AMI, for the tone of your post seems to sound like you have intimate knowlege of their business practice?

2.Regarding your question of lack of responses from other Auction houses, why would they respond to ligitimate questions that may result in forcing them to pull an item that is fake? Like I've mentioned in previous posts if you have nothing to hide, this website can be a great benifit to your auction business. When GUF starts auctions, I will feel extremly comfortible bidding on items. However, I would be hesitate to try to sumbit a fradulent items with experts such as Rudy and Eric on the lookout.

So Dave, if your not with AMI and you have legitimate items that you would like to sell, why wouldn't you utilize GUF? You obviously think enough about this website to frequently post your opinions.

This is an awesome vehicle for the collecting community and has the potential to clean up the industry and protect our investments in game used items. If you have integrity, this website is good for your business.


I am associated with AMI as a consignor only. I am not following your second question..And as for consigning to GUU, I may in fact do that once I see that they can bring me better numbers on my items than AMI. When and if that day comes, I will have to make a business decision.

[ChrisCavalier]

I wouldn't expect many auction houses to be responding to the forum anymore. The GUU forum has now become an auction house and will be in direct comptetition with other auction houses.

Regards,
Dave
Hello Dave,

As the note on the bottom of this page states, the forum was originally created as a way to bring game used collectors together and help hobbyists educate each other. Despite the fact that GUU will be hosting auctions, the purpose of the forum will not change. I would encourage other auction houses to participate in the forum as I agree with other forum members that it would only benefit the hobby.

Sincerely,
Chris Cavalier
CEO - Game Used Universe

[CollectGU]

Hello Dave,

As the note on the bottom of this page states, the forum was originally created as a way to bring game used collectors together and help hobbyists educate each other. Despite the fact that GUU will be hosting auctions, the purpose of the forum will not change. I would encourage other auction houses to participate in the forum as I agree with other forum members that it would only benefit the hobby.

Sincerely,
Chris Cavalier
CEO - Game Used Universe

Chris,

With all due respect, you didn't pay a large amount of money (i've heard $250,000 but only you and Eric know) and Eric didn't accept that large amount of money to simply bring game used collectors together and help hobbysists, correct? It seems to me that it was was a business decision by you to buy the forum and use this platform to create an auction house. As the note says, that's what it was ORIGINALLY created for, but what it is transforming into is a forum PLUS a for profit auction house that can utilize the forum and it's members to drive bids to the auction house. So, now it serves 2 purposes to bring the community togther and make you money and to say any different in my opinion would sound disengenuous. I'm sure I'll get bashed for this post...

Regards,
Dave

[RobSteinmetz]

I am associated with AMI as a consignor only.

Dave,

In the last issue of American Memorabilia Magazine (their new auction catalog format), someone named David O'Brien was listed as a "Contributing Editor". Is this you?

[Eric]

Chris,

With all due respect, you didn't pay a large amount of money (i've heard $250,000 but only you and Eric know) and Eric didn't accept that large amount of money to simply bring game used collectors together and help hobbysists, correct?...

Regards,
Dave

Dave-
As with everything else on this site, we need to deal in fact, and not rumor.

Yes, Chris and I are the only ones who know, but your allegation is ridiculously far off. You really do need to know facts before offering an opinion based on a false rumor.
Eric

[CollectGU]

Dave,

In the last issue of American Memorabilia Magazine (their new auction catalog format), someone named David O'Brien was listed as a "Contributing Editor". Is this you?


Rob,

Yes, I helped out on some of the write ups. I was not paid, I did it as a favor..

[RobSteinmetz]

Dave,

I don't know many consignors who are involved in the writing process...you must be held in high regard at AMI. Most of the names in AMI's "contributing editors" list are people who are well known in the hobby for their knowledge in a specific niche. What is your area of expertise?

[Eric]

I heard you got paid $250,000 (but only you and Victor know)
Eric

[CollectGU]

Dave,

I don't know many consignors who are involved in the writing process...you must be held in high regard at AMI. Most of the names in AMI's "contributing editors" list are people who are well known in the hobby for their knowledge in a specific niche. What is your area of expertise?


Rob, I was simply helping to edit...

[CollectGU]

I heard you got paid $250,000 (but only you and Victor know)
Eric


Eric,

Sorry. I should have asked you how much before throwing out a number based on rumor

[reed1216]

With all due respect to the parties involved here, this correspondence is part of the problem that goes on in this hobby.


Originally Posted by yankees159 http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?p=38009#post38009)
Hi Dave:

If I may ask a few questions:

1. Are you associated with AMI, for the tone of your post seems to sound like you have intimate knowlege of their business practice?

2.Regarding your question of lack of responses from other Auction houses, why would they respond to ligitimate questions that may result in forcing them to pull an item that is fake? Like I've mentioned in previous posts if you have nothing to hide, this website can be a great benifit to your auction business. When GUF starts auctions, I will feel extremly comfortible bidding on items. However, I would be hesitate to try to sumbit a fradulent items with experts such as Rudy and Eric on the lookout.

So Dave, if your not with AMI and you have legitimate items that you would like to sell, why wouldn't you utilize GUF? You obviously think enough about this website to frequently post your opinions.

This is an awesome vehicle for the collecting community and has the potential to clean up the industry and protect our investments in game used items. If you have integrity, this website is good for your business.

I am associated with AMI as a consignor only. I am not following your second question..And as for consigning to GUU, I may in fact do that once I see that they can bring me better numbers on my items than AMI. When and if that day comes, I will have to make a business decision.


Doesn't offering editorial assistance to an auction house constitute having an association beyond just consigning items to them??:confused:

As far as the site itself is concerned, there are potential conflicts of interests that could arise. However, it remains to be seen if those will surface. Presently, it really is irrelevant whether or not the owner of the site has motives beyond bringing people together. As long as the other policies remain in tact, such as sticking to facts and free and open disclosures and discussions about the items that are auctioned off by way of this site continue, there really shouldn't be any conflicts of interests.

As far as I am concerned, auction houses that opt not to appear here are using the potential for issues that have yet to surface as a convenient way to take the high road, or even attempt to discredit this site and its members. If a seller, any seller, was truley interested in selling authentic items, they would have no problem responding to questions and making appropriate adjustments to their listings and/or pulling them from sale, when neccessary. These issues have not been a problem during the first auction that was held here and it should not be presumed that they will become one.

[ChrisCavalier]

Chris,

With all due respect, you didn't pay a large amount of money (i've heard $250,000 but only you and Eric know) and Eric didn't accept that large amount of money to simply bring game used collectors together and help hobbysists, correct? It seems to me that it was was a business decision by you to buy the forum and use this platform to create an auction house. As the note says, that's what it was ORIGINALLY created for, but what it is transforming into is a forum PLUS a for profit auction house that can utilize the forum and it's members to drive bids to the auction house. So, now it serves 2 purposes to bring the community togther and make you money and to say any different in my opinion would sound disengenuous. I'm sure I'll get bashed for this post...

Regards,
Dave
Dave,

In Sam Walton's biography, I read where he did not set out to create the largest retailer in the world. He actually created WalMart as a way to improve the quality of life for small town Americans by bringing them products and services at prices they could afford. By staying focused on meeting the needs of consumers and improving their lives, WalMart became the largest retailer in the world.

While GUU is a business, it is one that was create with a single-minded focus of benefiting the collecting community. That has been our unequivocal vision from the beginning and it always will be. If we become big in the hobby it will be because we are meeting the needs of the collecting community.

It's kind of funny. From GUU/GUF's beginnings there have been a number of entities that have laughed at our efforts and accused GUU/GUF of being a site with a bunch of "bottom feeders" whose only motive is to try to discredit others. Now that we have grown in stature and credibility, I find it interesting that some of those same entities are feeling threatened by what we are doing. I guess we should take that as a good sign.

I will say this, GUU has gotten to where it is today by meeting the needs of the collecting community. We have invested a lot of time and money to build a company on uncompromised principles that I believe collectors can now trust. I also believe the way we approach our business is what helps us stand out in this industry. We will stay committed to our vision, one that is focused on meeting the needs of collectors and one that is committed to integrity before profits. If that makes us a profitable company then great. However, if we do not become profitable we will not change our commitment to doing what is right for the collecting community.

I hope that answers your question in a way that you feel is ingenuous.

Sincerely,
Christopher Cavalier
CEO - Game Used Universe

[allstarsplus]

Andrew,

1. Victor has never responded himself to a post.

2. The forum portion of GUU is not exclusive. Simply, look at how many forum posts recently have ended with forummercials for GUU auctions. I can think of at leats 5 off the top of my head wiithin the last week. This forum has been used at times to puch the auction house it now uses. There is nothing wrong with that, as this is a business, but don't pretend that they are exclusive of one another.

3. Also, Huggins and Scott who you endorse made a big error on the Leiter jersey they sold as game used and then it ended up on ebay as game used and was sold as such to someone. Why is this misstep any better than Lou's? Because they didn't know and made a mistake? Ignorance is no excuse, and now a bad Leiter is out in the hobby. Should we boycott them? The answer of course is no.

regards,
Dave

Dave - I numbered your paragraphs to respond.

#1. Why should Victor respond when you seem to always give a very nice supportive positive AMI comment whenever anything on AMI is questioned.

#2. You say the Forum portion is not exclusive of their auction, and Chris Cavalier would be the only one who can probably answer that, but my point was towards membership more so that you can still participate in the Forum without any requirement towards the auction.

#3. If you found 1 error on Huggins & Scott, I think you personally said on the Elway jersey Post: To be fair to the auction houses, we are looking at and complaining about 5- 10 jerseys, often the other 300 don't seem to have problems, and in fact there are some really nice items often offered. No excuse for the 5 -10 wrong, but if auction houses like AMI at least pull them when notified with a problem it means that things are changing for the better in the hobby.

Let's be fair, Josh from Huggins & Scott posted to you already:
Dave,

this was never brought to my attention and I knew nothing of it. I wish I had known, so I could have done a little research on the piece.

The item originally passed during the auction, but I was contacted by someone after the auction ended to see if they could purchase the jersey for the opening bid, plus the buyers' premium. I checked with the consignor and he was ok to sell it, so we did.

Because the item was not of high-value and the authentication would have cost the same as the sale price, the consignor opted not to have it authenticated by MEARS. We sold the jersey without the authentication.

In looking back, I'm not sure how our writer narrowed it to the 2002 season, since there was no year tag.

Thanks for bringing it to my attention - I may use this forum for future authentication of our jersey's.
thanks,
Josh Wulkan
VP Huggins and Scott Auctions

[lund6771]

great post Chris...shows a lot of class!!!

[cohibasmoker]

The forum is simply an area where collectors go to discuss the hobby. For a auction house to post on their website the warning they did is just out of line. Whether the posts on the forum are good, bad or ugly posts, they are simply that – a discussion. The information is posted and it is up to the reader to make a final determination on the authenticity of an item.

As for Historic auctions, their policy is “All sales are final. No returns will be accepted after the auction is over”. I still can’t figure out what “No returns will be accepted after the auction is over” means, but, when an auction house has an “All sales are final” policy, doesn’t it make sense to gather as much information on an item BEFORE we bid? Or, is Historic Auction so pompous that they want us to blindly put down our money, pay a buyers fee and quietly walk away?

As for Lou Lampson, I am the exception - I like Lou and respect his opinions. Even Lou will tell you, and like the rest of us, NO-ONE IS PERFECT. We all make mistakes. In fact, even MEARS and PSA will attest that they too have made mistakes. They will also state that their letters are simply “Opinions”. So, why wouldn’t it be prudent to research an item before we bid? The forum is just another reference source.

Historic Auctions is way out of line in posting the disclaimer against the forum. They should NOT underestimate the average collector. The days of blindly throwing our money down to auctions houses because they print up nice catalogs, and provide letters of opinions from authenticators are over. Eric, thanks for hosting the site and to all of the forum members - keep up the good work.

The forum IS MAKING AN IMPACT ON THE HOBBY.

Jim Papaycik

[rose14]

Jim, I know even the best people make mistakes but what makes Lou Lampson different is that the quantity of those mistakes is mind blowing. Lou's blatant regard to back up his findings or opinions is his own doing. Lou was well aware of a particular item in a recent Mastro auction where I obtained information from the actual player whose jersey they were auctioning. Even after I presented the facts from the player to the auction house who later told Lou he still said that he was right because of the manuafacturing tags on the jersey even though the coloring of the lettering and the material the jersey was made of was wrong. Lou had NO photo proof to form an opinion on this jersey but he did anyway.

I also hold fault to the auction houses that continue to use him as they are only hurting their integrity and future business. Now you not only having to deal with suspect authenticators but the less than honest heads of the auction houses that try to alter knowingly bad items and auction them.

[CollectGU]

Dave - I numbered your paragraphs to respond.

#1. Why should Victor respond when you seem to always give a very nice supportive positive AMI comment whenever anything on AMI is questioned.

#2. You say the Forum portion is not exclusive of their auction, and Chris Cavalier would be the only one who can probably answer that, but my point was towards membership more so that you can still participate in the Forum without any requirement towards the auction.

#3. If you found 1 error on Huggins & Scott, I think you personally said on the Elway jersey Post: To be fair to the auction houses, we are looking at and complaining about 5- 10 jerseys, often the other 300 don't seem to have problems, and in fact there are some really nice items often offered. No excuse for the 5 -10 wrong, but if auction houses like AMI at least pull them when notified with a problem it means that things are changing for the better in the hobby.

Let's be fair, Josh from Huggins & Scott posted to you already:
Dave,

this was never brought to my attention and I knew nothing of it. I wish I had known, so I could have done a little research on the piece.

The item originally passed during the auction, but I was contacted by someone after the auction ended to see if they could purchase the jersey for the opening bid, plus the buyers' premium. I checked with the consignor and he was ok to sell it, so we did.

Because the item was not of high-value and the authentication would have cost the same as the sale price, the consignor opted not to have it authenticated by MEARS. We sold the jersey without the authentication.

In looking back, I'm not sure how our writer narrowed it to the 2002 season, since there was no year tag.

Thanks for bringing it to my attention - I may use this forum for future authentication of our jersey's.
thanks,
Josh Wulkan
VP Huggins and Scott Auctions





Andrew,

I have worked on behalf of this forum to get items pulled from AMI's auction that are shown not to be good, and will continue to try and do so. My original post was a response to you to help you and others better understand their authentication process, so they were not incorrectly painted with the " if they use lampson it can't be good so boycott them" brush. We have now veered way off topic, and don't feel like getting into a pissing match..

Regards,
Dave

[Eric]

Andrew,

I have worked on behalf of this forum to get items pulled from AMI's auction that are shown not to be good, and will continue to try and do so. ..

Regards,
Dave

Dave
We certainly appreciate the work you have done to get things pulled from AMI. Can you get them to answer the questions about auction policy? I have emailed them twice and have not heard anything.
Eric

[CollectGU]

Eric,

I'll see what I can do...

[Eric]

It will go thru to Historic if you click on the link, then once you see them WARNING message, reload the page. Should work