Historic Auctions-lampson+retun Policy=no Thanks!

[hblakewolf]

Forum Readers-

After just taking a look at the simply AMAZING Nolan Ryan Rangers pre-game that is currently listed on the Historic site, I noticed their return policy is as folows:
All sales are final. No returns will be accepted once the Auction is over.

Who in the world would bid on ANY item in this auction, based on the fact that Lampson is the "authenticator" (strictly by title) on the majority of items and now, all sales are final?

Other auction houses have noted this same policy, however, Mike Heffner from Lelands noted on here recently that he will honor returns (if an item is proven to be bad) for up to 3 years, and other items with a MEARS LOA offer a money back guarantee.

Regardless if Historic had Mike Schmidt's rookie jersey, and based on the above,there is not a chance in hell that I would bid.

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

[hblakewolf]

Re: Historic Auctions-lampson+retun Policy=no Thanks!

The following is posted on the Historic site, "If you do not feel comfortable with an item or its authenticity, please feel free to contact Historic Auctions, LLC for further information regarding the item. If you are still not satisfied, please do not bid on the item. Please remember, the authentication process is an option and not a fact."

This "theory" has been discussed here before, however, who actually believes this nonsense? We've seen Yankees jerseys matched to photos using the NY logo and/or number placement against the pinstripes, bats with specific marks matched to photos, etc.

When in doubt, shout "It's not a fact" and toss it over to Sweet Lou to write his LOA.

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

[mvandor]

Re: Historic Auctions-lampson+retun Policy=no Thanks!

What auction houses have shown some reasonable effort to authenticate?

[hblakewolf]

Re: Historic Auctions-lampson+retun Policy=no Thanks!

Lelands.

They have Mike Heffner and Keith Vari for equipment. Likewise, when items have been questioned, they have indicated a willingness to investigate and either remove it if it's a problem, or support their findings and keep it listed.

Also, Mike Heffner recently indicated that Lelands will accept a return for up to 3 years, if proven to have a legit problem.

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

[mvandor]

Re: Historic Auctions-lampson+retun Policy=no Thanks!

Lelands.

They have Mike Heffner and Keith Vari for equipment. Likewise, when items have been questioned, they have indicated a willingness to investigate and either remove it if it's a problem, or support their findings and keep it listed.

Also, Mike Heffner recently indicated that Lelands will accept a return for up to 3 years, if proven to have a legit problem.

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

Just scanned their auction, they don't seem to give much detail as to provenance or even make an effort to show an LOA on many items...

[Frank]

Re: Historic Auctions-lampson+retun Policy=no Thanks!

Howard,

Why do you not pick on Mastro for having the same policy?

http://www.mastronet.com/index.cfm?Action=DisplayContent&ContentName=Rules%20%26%20FAQs

[Frank]

Re: Historic Auctions-lampson+retun Policy=no Thanks!

or American Memorabilia?

http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/auction_rules.asp

[Frank]

Re: Historic Auctions-lampson+retun Policy=no Thanks!

or Lelands?

http://www.lelands.com/webRules.aspx

[Frank]

Re: Historic Auctions-lampson+retun Policy=no Thanks!

Clearly many other auciton houses have a "All sales are final. No Returns" policy and many of those use Lampson.

It's interesting to see the clear bias of some of the members here....

[hblakewolf]

Re: Historic Auctions-lampson+retun Policy=no Thanks!

Clearly many other auciton houses have a "All sales are final. No Returns" policy and many of those use Lampson.

It's interesting to see the clear bias of some of the members here....

Frank-
Did you actually read the original question before going off into left field?

Let me post the question:
What auction houses have shown some reasonable effort to authenticate?

Please re-read my response.

Lelands does not use Lampson, rather, they conduct their own research and they do their own homework "internally". Mike Heffner has also made a great effort to address the Forum's concerns in the past, and also added that Lelands will honor a 3 year return policy if an item is found to have a problem. Frank, I'm sure even you can agree that this is a "reasonable effort", correct?

I encourage your thoughts on the original question, however,If you desire to discuss other issues, please start your own thread

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

[Frank]

Re: Historic Auctions-lampson+retun Policy=no Thanks!

Howard,

Yes I did read your original question. Obviously by your defensive tone, I did not go off into left field. Additionally, I don't think we need another thread to just have you answer the simple question of why you don't pick on almost every major auction house for having the same policy.

I encourage your thoughts on my original question.

And, to answer your original question with a question, should an auction house authenticate their own items? Sure they should conduct research initially, but if a 3rd party authenticator authenticates an item and it is clearly stated as such, why shouldn't the bidder educate himself and then decide if he wants to buy the item or not?

For example, I may think that a Mantle signature is potentially bad but if I send it to PSA/DNA and they say it is real, should I not sell it on eBay? Of course I would, as would you. Authenticators authenticate. Not auction houses (except maybe Grey Flannel). Not you. Not I. Otherwise, we would be paid to do it full time.

Now I know your first response is going to be "PSA/DNA doesn't make the same gross mistakes that Lou does". And while this is true, just because Lou mis-authenticates an item doesn't necessarily negate every other auction.

Let me also ask you, are you saying that auction houses shouldn't use Lou and should just authenticate the items themselves?

[CollectGU]

Re: Historic Auctions-lampson+retun Policy=no Thanks!

Frank-
Did you actually read the original question before going off into left field?

Let me post the question:
What auction houses have shown some reasonable effort to authenticate?

Please re-read my response.

Lelands does not use Lampson, rather, they conduct their own research and they do their own homework "internally". Mike Heffner has also made a great effort to address the Forum's concerns in the past, and also added that Lelands will honor a 3 year return policy if an item is found to have a problem. Frank, I'm sure even you can agree that this is a "reasonable effort", correct?

I encourage your thoughts on the original question, however,If you desire to discuss other issues, please start your own thread

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

Howard,

There are more auction houses moving to this type of format that Lenad's has. And I thought the return policy was one year, but I see that Mike Heffener wrote 3? Either way, what a great policy to have, as it shows the confidence they have in their items and their company's ability to properly research and authenticate them.

Regards,
Dave

[both-teams-played-hard]

Re: Historic Auctions-lampson+retun Policy=no Thanks!

Authenticators authenticate. Not auction houses (except maybe Grey Flannel). Not you. Not I. Otherwise, we would be paid to do it full time.

C'mon Frank. You're just saying stuff to enflame Howard. Wouldn't you rather listen to research from these forum members than trust a third party authenticator? "Authenticating" is much, much more than simply signing off on an LOA.

Letters of authenticity sell for two and a half cents at Kinko's...

Since the invention of this forum, I have noticed great positive strides from Leland's and Grey Flannel.

[Frank]

Re: Historic Auctions-lampson+retun Policy=no Thanks!

Letters of authenticity sell for two and a half cents at Kinko's...

I guess you missed where I wrote:

shouldn't the bidder educate himself and then decide if he wants to buy the item or not?

My main point was that Howard was trying to sensationalize one auction house for their return policy and use of Lampson when many others, including Mastro, do the exact same thing.

I just want to see this forum more respected in the industry as a whole and when some of its most vocal members are openly biased toward a couple auction houses for an issue such as Howard is raising, it is very apparent and does discredit the forum.

[both-teams-played-hard]

Re: Historic Auctions-lampson+retun Policy=no Thanks!

Frank
I understand your point. However, it seems you are taking sides with Historic Auctions. I don't think Howard can hurt Historic's business anymore than they hurt themselves.
I think Lou Lampson gets many things right (yea, I said it). But, when in doubt, I will not take his word for it. Whatever knowledge he has of vintage items has been squandered with his blatant errors of modern items. I do my own research, ask my own questions, and most importantly, DO NOT spend outside of my budget.
You can get a refund on any purchase. Just return the item immediately upon arrival. Use a tracking number thru FedEx, USPS or UPS. Then call MasterCard or Visa, claim "fraud" and demand a chargeback. There is no need to ask nicely. Just don't pay with personal check or money order.