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Looks Meigray is going to be the offical source of game used for the NBA. News release on the site. Great news for NBA fans. If Barry reads this. Does it mean you will have every team starting next year? Or will it be like hockey where you have most, but a few will market on their own.
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Re: MeiGray to partnership with NBA
Hi IndyRed,
Thanks for noticing the post on our website.
Yes, MeiGray and the National Basketball Association have created the NBA and MeiGray Game-Worn Authentication Program. MeiGray is proud to announce we have been named "The Official Game-Worn Source of the NBA."
As of now, this NBA agreement is with the league. Our available inventory, some of which will be available via auction and some which will be available via retail sale, will be from selected league events.
Our first auction offerings are game-worn jerseys (most with accompanying shorts) and game-used basketballs from the 2006-07 Europe Live and Puerto Rico '06 preseason games involving the Detroit Pistons, Los Angeles Clippers, Miami Heat, San Antonio Spurs, Philadelphia 76ers and Phoenix Suns.
We also have game-used basketballs from the 2007 NBA All-Star Game and special events.
As many of you know, MeiGray already represents the Dallas Mavs and Memphis Grizzlies.
For all items offered through our partnership with the NBA, MeiGray will be using the same security features that have worked so well for NHL-MGG since 2002. We intend to offer basketball collectors the highest standards of integrity and reliability for an exciting array of game-worn and game-used items.
Every game-worn and game-used item that comes directly off the backs of the NBA’s greatest players and directly off the courts from the league’s most exciting events will be done under the watchful eyes of an NBA or MeiGray Authentication Program representative.
Every item offered by NBA and MeiGray will be authenticated and registered into the NBA Authenticated Program Database. Every item is worthy of a Hall of Fame-caliber sports collection because every item is unconditionally guaranteed for life to be game-worn or game-used.
Over the next few weeks, we will be releasing more details on our new program. So stay tuned.
Thanks,
Barry Meisel, MeiGray -
Re: MeiGray to partnership with NBA
I like to think of myself as strictly a game used bat guy, but coming from a person who has occasionally viewed "game used" basketball jerseys (on ebay for example) with a certain degree of skepticism as whether they were actually used or issued I have to say that this is a huge step forward with regard to NBA jerseys.Comment
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Re: MeiGray to partnership with NBA
Barry-
CONGRATS!!!!!
It will be extremely interesting to see how quickly the superstar jerseys WITHOUT MEIGRAY tagging vanish from EVERY major auction house..... WADE....NASH....POOF....GONE!!!!!!!!!
This is a huge step and we can only hope that you get the exclusive rights for EVERY team.
Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.netComment
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Re: MeiGray to partnership with NBA
"It will be extremely interesting to see how quickly the superstar jerseys WITHOUT MEIGRAY tagging vanish from EVERY major auction house..... WADE....NASH....POOF....GONE!!!!!!!!!"
howard,
i'm not sure it'll be so automatic or instantaneous. after all, both gfc and historic recently had non-meigray nowitzki jerseys up for sale despite their awareness of meigray's longstanding exclusive agreement with the mavericks. (in all fairness, gfc's was a "nowinzki"). historic's nowitzki is still up for auction if you care to take a look. same goes for the non-meigray '03 and '04 texas rangers jerseys. apparently arod was permitted to market his own jerseys outside of the team agreement with meigray. the "exclusive" deal seemed to apply to everyone except arod, palmeiro and whichever other players didn't feel like participating. will that be the case with meigray's nba agreement? will various superstars be permitted to market as many jerseys as they like outside of the meigray agreement/program? if so, then it's not an entirely effective or exclusive program is it? if buyers are offered non-meigray star nba jerseys with loas issued by the marketing companies of those stars, then many buyers and auction houses will eagerly accept these and view them as having provenance as good as that of meigray. after all, in the words of victor moreno "who am i to question arod?". i'm interested in barry's response to this whole issue of players being allowed to market their jerseys outside of "exclusive" meigray/team agreements and how that affects the validity of meigray provenance.
despite the widely known exclusive agreement between steiner and the yankees, various entities such as historic and asi regularly offer 2005+
non-steiner yankee "gamers". steiner/yankees seemed to have done nothing to stop such sales. in jan 2007, i received an email from ASI offering the following items for sale:
Hideki Matsui 2005 Home - $5000
Derek Jeter 2005 Home - $5000
Derek Jeter 2006 Home - $5000
Robinson Cano 2005 Home - Lampson - $4000
not a single one with steiner docs. these '05 and '06 yankee jerseys were offered by ASI over year after steiner signed their exclusive agreement with the yankees. (steiner confirmed to me that they did not sell these jerseys to ASI).
i suspect sales will be curtailed but not eliminated. you'll still see various sellers and auctions with 2007+ nba "gamers", filled with great stories of "impeccable sources" and "friends of friends of cousins of the player".
rudy.Comment
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Re: MeiGray to partnership with NBA
Hi Rudy,
I can't yet reply to hypotheticals regarding contracts and agreements that are not yet written or official, so I can't tell you what will happen in the future.
I can comment on the two actual examples you discuss:
If the Dallas jersey in Heritage Auctions is legit, the Mavs have breached a contract and have falsified documents involving the jerseys we have marketed. I highly doubt they have done that. I have not examined the jersey being auctioned by Heritage, but I question its authenticity based on lack of provenance, and lack of any factual evidence it is real. I have game logs filed by the Mavs for every game in the 2005-06 season, recording the inventory number of the jerseys used by Nowitzki in every game.
Regarding the Texas Rangers, if Arod or any other player received permission to market his jerseys outside of our agreement, we were not made aware of that. When we signed our exclusive agreements, we were told that the inventory provided was the Texas Rangers' entire inventory. And our authenticity procedures backed the fact that the tagged jerseys we received were used in multiple games. Some were easily photo-matched to multiple games.
I'm happy to respond to your question of players being allowed to market their jerseys outside of MeiGray "exclusive" team agreements: My comment is, every contract is different. If a contract exists where players are given these rights, we will publicize that to ensure accurate information in the hobby.
But MeiGray's contracts have not included any such clauses. I would respectfully argue that collectors in many, many cases are taking significant risks and are purchasing non-authentic items erroneously advertised as game-worn. I say this provenance can be easily established in today's market.
There has been some fine work done by members of this Forum to prove the illegitimacy of some jerseys (the '94 Throwback Elway issue comes immediately to mind). Teams are well aware of the value of their items. I respectfully suggest that the more vague the provenance, the less thorough the evidence of authenticity, the less likely it is that an item is legit.
Respectfully,
BarryComment
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Re: MeiGray to partnership with NBA
This is an ENORMOUS step toward cleaning up the NBA in regard to collectibles. As someone who's dealt with MGG with the NHL deal they've had previously, it's great to be able to buy something that's guaranteed to be good.
Yes, I recognize that it eliminates a lot of "the chase", but it sure beats dropping a stack of cash on something that's phony.Looking for Duane Kuiper home run baseballsComment
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Re: MeiGray to partnership with NBA
hi barry,
thanks for your reply.
"I can't yet reply to hypotheticals regarding contracts and agreements that are not yet written or official, so I can't tell you what will happen in the future."
i thought this new nba contract was finalized? see: "Yes, MeiGray and the National Basketball Association have created the NBA and MeiGray Game-Worn Authentication Program. MeiGray is proud to announce we have been named "The Official Game-Worn Source of the NBA. As of now, this NBA agreement is with the league."
if the agreement to which you refer to above is indeed finalized, can you confirm or deny whether it allows for players to market their game-worn jerseys outside of meigray? you stated that every contract is different and that, if players are permitted to market their own items, then this information will be publicized. however you also said that your contracts have not included such clauses and that, under this new contract, "Every game-worn and game-used item that comes directly off the backs of the NBA’s greatest players and directly off the courts from the league’s most exciting events will be done under the watchful eyes of an NBA or MeiGray Authentication Program representative."
correct me if i'm wrong but these comments seem to say that this new contract is finalized and that it does not permit players to market their own game-used items completely outside of meigray.
"Regarding the Texas Rangers, if Arod or any other player received permission to market his jerseys outside of our agreement, we were not made aware of that. When we signed our exclusive agreements, we were told that the inventory provided was the Texas Rangers' entire inventory."
barry, i'm not sure what went wrong with the texas rangers agreement, but it was fairly well known that arod was doing a booming business marketing his own non-meigray "game used" jerseys during the time that meigray was supposed to have the rangers "entire inventory". you stated earlier "From 2002-current, the Rangers have warranted to us that they sewed an inventory tag into every game-worn jersey marketed through our deal. Our deal is exclusive through the game-worn industry, but there are other jerseys that we don't get (promotional jerseys, charitable contributions, jerseys given to team staff, etc). Those, however, also have inventory tags. Does there exist a game-worn jersey that does not have a Texas Rangers inventory tag? It is possible, of course, but highly unlikely. For that to have happened, a player or some other staffer would have had to work a non-inventory tagged jersey into the locker room, worn it, and then removed it from the locker room. According to the team, they tag every jersey that is prepared for use by, and eventually worn by, the team. They have done so since 2002."
i'd like to show you a few things:
2002 arod "gamer", with signed Arod LOA (in which he states he has an exclusive contract with ASI) and Arod "2002 game used" inscription. there is no rangers/meigray tagging.
2002 palmeiro "gamer" with "hr 479" inscription. no meigray/rangers tagging.
2003 palmeiro "gamer" with palmeiro loa and "game used 2003" inscription. no meigray/rangers tagging.
2003 arod "gamer" with arod loa and "2003 game used" inscription. no meigray/rangers tagging. no meigray/rangers tagging.
2003 arod "gamer" with arod loa and "2003 game used, HR #43" inscription. no meigray/rangers tagging.
2003 arod "gamer" with arod loa and "2003 Game Used, MVP" inscription. no meigray/rangers tagging.
there were boxes more like this sold off via ebay and various auction houses.
you're saying you were never aware of any of these? you said that for a rangers gamer to not have the meigray/rangers tagging would be "highly unlikely" yet here are 6 superstar jerseys with player loas and "game-used" inscriptions that lack the meigray/rangers tagging. during your agreement with the rangers, arod was moving these things like hotcakes.
in the same vein, if you were unaware that arod was moving these things during the time when the rangers warranted to you that they were sewing these tags into every single jersey prepared for use and that you were getting their entire inventory, then what's to prevent dozens of nba players pulling the same thing? meigray lost thousands of dollars because arod, palmeiro, and pudge (i believe) decided to market their own jerseys outside of meigray. the team signed a deal with you and the players
clearly subverted it. i completely understand you saying that, given your diligent system, customers take a risk in purchasing a non-meigray jersey. however you've also got to feel that many of them will fail to see it's a risk when these jerseys come with player LOAs and player "game used" inscriptions. an "exclusive" deal has to be genuinely exclusive if it's to carry weight. it's integrity is undermined if players are going to go out and market their own items with "game used" inscriptions and loas. hence my original question of how is meigray going to address this going forward?
meigray's entire system is geared towards integrity and that's what's at risk here. you say you weren't aware of what arod was doing years ago. now that you're aware of it, how is meigray going to address and help prevent "arod situations" with your new nba teams? do your contracts explicitly state that players are prohibited from marketing their own jerseys? if so, what course of action would meigray take if it discovered players engaging in these activities? i think everyone agrees meigray has a very nice system. best in the industry even. ultimately though, every system needs to be monitored and enforced in order to be truly effective.
rudy.Comment
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Re: MeiGray to partnership with NBA
I don't even collect basketball game used but this is GREAT news!! I'm glad to hear that collector's will know now which is real and which isn't. Now only if MLB did something with ALL their equipment....kylehess941@hotmail.com
My Game Used Collection:
http://www.wix.com/kylehess941/gameused
http://www.kylehessphotography.com/Comment
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Re: MeiGray to partnership with NBA
This is of course great news for all kinds of collectors. My experiences with Barry and Mei Gray have been awesome. Simply put, they are true professionals and they appreciate all kinds of collectors, even people such as me who don't spend the massive dollars.Comment
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Re: MeiGray to partnership with NBA
Barry,
Congratulations on your agreement with the NBA!!! This is terrific news and I will most definitely look into expanding my collecting preferences to include basketball now.
For those of you who are not familiar with MeiGray, you definately have something to look forward to. I have several NHL jerseys, as well as a Rangers Alex Rodriguez and Ivan Rodriguez that went through MeiGray and the piece of mind one gets, knowing their collection is 100% real is great. Good luck with this, Barry. I look forward to seeing the inventory you acquire.Comment
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Re: MeiGray to partnership with NBA
This is great news. I bought an Anthony Roberson jersey when MeiGray first got the Grizzlies jerseys. That was my first NBA jersey, and I'm looking forward to the opportunity to get more.
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Re: MeiGray to partnership with NBA
Hi Rudy,
I'll try to respond to your questions as best as I can, in chronological order in your post:
The finalized contract we publicly introduced yesterday is with the NBA to market game-worn items from league-controlled events. In the coming months we will be attempting to negotiate agreements with as many NBA teams as possible to join the program (like Dallas and Memphis). That is the context to which I was referring.
As far as the Rangers situations you referenced, and the question you raised about preventing situations like those going forward, I have two points to make:
1) It is my goal to ensure absolute authenticity in game-used items worn by teams in our program. Creating an authentication program that ensures this is our aim. Here's an example: If an NBA player wants to throw his jersey into the crowd 82 times a year, and that team wants to join the program, we will attempt to ensure that every jersey that player wears that hits the seats has an authentication program tag.
2) How others authenticate items they sell, and whether those items are legitimate, is a part of the equation I can't speak to. When a team negotiates a contract, and tells me the items outside the contract are not legit, and I use my authenticating and researching skills to validate what they are saying, that is the best I can go by.
Are those Arod/Palmeiro jerseys legit? I have no idea. I have never authenticated them. But I can tell you they lack the elements of what legit jerseys of those same players during our deal with the Rangers.
Show me an absolutely, 100% rock solid authentic item that was created outside of an exclusive contract, and I will be happy to discuss the issue and investigate what happened.
Based on the products I see on the open market, I respectfully disagree that our integrity is undermined if other jerseys of players whose teams we have under contract hit the market. I think thorough comparison and research would prove the opposite true.
Several collectors who participate on this site have personally compared products that have come to MeiGray via team deals vs. those that have hit the market through other channels.
Most importantly, Rudy, MeiGray believes that what it sells MUST BE 100% LEGIT. We know that there are thousands and thousands of other items out there in the sports memorabilia market. And I'm not naive enough to believe some are not legit. But I started MeiGray 10 years ago because I was a collector tired of having to take a chance every time I bought a jersey. Sure, some were real. But the ones that were not were spoiling my love for the hobby. I wanted my collection to be 100% real.
At MeiGray, the only thing that matters is that we hit 100% legitimacy and that our customers have collections that are 100% legit. That is the level of consumer confidence for which we strive, and why we believe we offer a better alternative.
This Forum--most notably Eric and Chris by virtue of the hundreds of hours spent to build and sustain this worthy watchdog--has done a remarkable job of raising questions, and opening people's eyes to what is going on out there. We applaud collectors who raise issues, ask questions, and demand answers from those selling and authenticating.
MeiGray believes it is working hard to do its part to clean up a wonderful hobby that needs to do a better job of ensuring 100% authenticity.
And thanks for the kind words, everybody.
Respectfully,
BarryComment
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Re: MeiGray to partnership with NBA
barry, again, thanks for reply. i'd like to highlight one of your comments in case anyone missed it because i feel it has substantial implications:
"Are those Arod/Palmeiro jerseys legit? I have no idea. I have never authenticated them. But I can tell you they lack the elements of what legit jerseys of those same players during our deal with the Rangers."
in august 2005, forum member reid fontaine sold a 2003 palmeiro gamer from meigray. here is his description of the tagging on that jersey:
"Tagging is (a) Magestic tag, (b) 50 size tag, (c) set 1 2003 flag tag (remember that the Rangers were only issued sets 1 and 2 in 2003, per the Texas Rangers!), (d) +1" sleeve flag tag, (e) +2" body flag tag, and (f) Texas Rangers’ serial number strip tag inside of jersey reads “03106”, and (g) 0062 Majestic wash tag."
conversely, the 2003 palmeiro "gamer" sold on ami from asi and with a palmeiro loa and "game used inscription" had no set tag and more importantly, no sleeve or body customizations. i find it odd that on the asi/ami jersey that palmeiro sold outside of the meigray program, palmeiro apparently lost the need for customizations that he had on his meigray jerseys. (maybe when you're ordering boxes worth of jerseys to sell, you don't really bother with the customizations because you don't really intend on wearing them?). at any rate, i'd be interested for reid fontaine to discuss the tagging on the meigray arod jersey he had to see how it compares to the jerseys from arod himself.
rudy.Comment
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Re: MeiGray to partnership with NBA
Just checking one Meigray tonight and they have a bunch of the NBA Hardwood Classic teams game worn jerseys from the 2005-06 season. Some of those jerseys are really crazy looking. They have the Wade Floridians Heat jersey. I know I've seen that version of a game worn jersey offered in auction houses before. I have no idea how many games they used them. Pretty cool seeing those styles. I think the Nets should have never dropped that look.Comment
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