Historic - "Cano rookie" jersey really a Russ Johnson or Andy Phillips?

[kingjammy24]

I don't know what it is about this jersey but it's really gotten under my skin. Historic Auctions currently has a "2005 Robinson Cano game worn rookie jersey" that is home #14.

Lampsons LOA on the jersey says "Cano was the only Yankees player documented to wear #14 in 2005, which was worn by Cano early in his rookie season. This fact leaves this particular Cano knit very desireable".

In 2005, both Russ Johnson and Andy Phillips also wore #14. Lou's imagination is as active as ever. Great fact checking Lou! In fact, here's a photo of Russ Johnson in 2005 wearing #14:
http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/8600/johnsonvb2.jpg

As noted, Andy Phillips also wore #14 in 2005. To summarize for any remaining Lampson supporters: Not only did Lou fail to even check who wore #14 in 2005, but then proceeded to actually make up a story about how Cano was the only one to have worn #14. This isn't the first, second, or eighteenth time Lou has simply made up a story in order to turn a jersey into something it isn't. He then proceeds to actually call his made-up story a "fact". If this qualifies as a fact in Lou's world, then what other facts has he made up?

Did someone pick up a bargain Andy Phillips or Russ Johnson jersey and then attempt to pass it off as a rare Robinson Cano rookie gamer?
If they did, apparently they've got a willing accomplice in Lampson who'll go so far as making up stories in order to help things along.

I'm currently finding out when exactly Cano stopped wearing #14 in order to see if Cano even ever wore a home #14 jersey.

rudy.

[kingjammy24]

steiner currently has 2 2005 #14 Russ Johnson jerseys:

http://www.steinersports.com/ssm/control/product/~pcategory=/~category=/~pid=200511951410000014

http://www.steinersports.com/ssm/control/product/~pcategory=/~category=/~pid=200511951510000014

as well, they have a 2005 Andy Phillips jersey that is a size 48. Historic's current "Robinson Cano" is a size 48. Not a big deal until you consider that the previous 2005 Cano that historic sold (seen here: http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:3MbxbVinYd0J:www.historicauctions.c om/search/list/auctionid/33746/+%22historic+auctions%22+cano&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us&ie=UTF-8 ) was a size 46.

rudy.

[Eric]

Rudy-

It would be interesting to see how the #14 compared on the "Cano Rookie" and the Russ Johnson photo from 6/22/05 that you posted

The front of the jersey matches up pretty well too, but it would be interesting to try to look side by side at them...

4272

[Eric]

Here's another shot of Russ Johnson from webshots. What do you think of the pinstripe to the left of the #1 as it compares to the one in Historic? It's definitely not the one being sold by steiner

http://inlinethumb57.webshots.com/2872/1401285419069324906S600x600Q85.jpg (http://sports.webshots.com/photo/1401285419069324906HQITtM)

[kingjammy24]

eric,

re: the russ johnson match:

http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/6936/canoqs3.jpg

personally, i feel i'd need to see some more solid matches to conclusively call it a photomatch. that said, i can't see anything that would indicate that it definitely isn't a photomatch. that is, from what i can see, there isn't anything different between the two jerseys. as well, i do see a few matches. before reaching a conclusion, i'd simply want to see some more matches. here's what i do see:

- pinstripes match up to the #14, the back mlb logo and the "NYY" front logo. you can see via the current steiner johnson game-issue that the numbers aren't always lined up identically.

- the right shoulder seam seems to show some matches.

- most interesting of all, is the puckering on the "4". i believe that puckering leaves a unique fingerprint. no 2 puckered numbers are identical. the ripples, veins, bumps are all unique in every instance and are impossible to perfectly duplicate or re-create. they really are like a series of wrinkles on skin. whether legit or doctored, they still have to be created via the same process (ie: extensive washing.) there isn't enough control in the washing process to create 2 identical puckered appearances on 2 different items.
i believe that the "4" on the historic cano and the "4" shown worn by russ johnson in the photos share a couple of unique ripples in seemingly identical locations. again, the odds of these being on 2 different jerseys are extremely slim and would be almost impossible to intentionally duplicate. i think that, in many cases, if you can conclusively match up puckering marks, then it often makes for a more solid photomatch than matching pinstripes simply because the odds of identical puckering are even less than identical pinstripes. in the picture shown above, you can see where i've pointed out 2 similar ripples.

i believe that's more likely that it's the same jersey than it is a different jersey. if someone were trying to sell me the historic "cano" as a "photomatched russ johnson", i'd feel that they were probably right albeit a little premature.

perhaps i ought to inquire with steiner if they sold a russ johnson gamer to brad wells or james brown.

rudy.

[gr8soxfan]

The Cano jersey is not the same one that Russ Johnson is wearing. The #1 and the #4 are more spaced out then the Cano jersey. The #14 on the Cano? jersey are much closer really close.On the Russ jersey there's one white stripe in between the 1 and the 4 but the Cano jersey there's no white stripe going thru the middle of the numbers.

[kingjammy24]

gr8sox,

you're right. good eyes. all of the points on the "4" seem to hit except of course, it's all 1 stripe over, which i somehow missed. could it be an andy phillips then?

there's a request in to the yankees for the exact day when cano ceased wearing #14; whether or not it was before his first home game. i'll be sure to update as soon as i have the info.

rudy.

[kingjammy24]

some more info while i get to the bottom of whether cano ever played a home game in #14:

- cano was called up 05/03.

- from 05/03-05/05 he was on the road.

- on 05/08 there's photo proof of him wearing #22.

- on 05/11 russ johnson was called up and he took #14. here's a photo of johnson on 5/11:
http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/2328/proof1fz9.jpg
russ johnson stayed with the yankees until 07/17. the ONLY number johnson wore with the yankees in 2005 was #14. ie: from 05/11-07/17, #14 was taken by johnson. johnson was sent down on 07/17.

- on 07/19, the yankees recalled andy phillips. phillips took #14. phillips was sent down on 08/08.

the only real chance cano had to wear #14 would've been in late august and september and getty is full of images of cano wearing #22 during these months.

rudy.

[gr8soxfan]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/newyork808/46550535/
Here's a picture of Andy Phillips wearing #14 in 2005 I hope you might be able to do something with it.

[Eric]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ROBINSON-CANO-SIGNED-GAME-USED-ROOKIE-JERSEY-LAMPSON_W0QQitemZ330222884920QQihZ014QQcategoryZ60 597QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[suave1477]

HERE IS A FUNNY SENTENCE IN THE CANO DESCRIPTION

"The jersey is soft and has clearly seen many games and washes"

How is this even possible when the Jersey could have only at most been worn a few games??????

Did Cano tie it to the back of his car after each game and drag the jersey for miles lol lol and then wash it many times to get the dirt out lol lol:D :D

[gingi79]

Well, initially I thought this was a case of idiocy by Lampson just making up the fact Cano wore #14. Baseball almanac does list him wearing it however. That doesn't mean this is a real Cano gamer but at least now we have proof he wore the number at some point:

http://baseball-almanac.com/teamstats/roster.php?y=2005&t=NYA

[kingjammy24]

the issue isn't whether cano wore #14. (whether he ever wore it at home is unknown.) the issue is that lampson stated "Cano was the only Yankees player documented to wear #14 in 2005, which was worn by Cano early in his rookie season. This fact leaves this particular Cano knit very desireable". this is an outright fabrication. it would've taken all of two minutes for lampson to check a 2005 yankees roster and see that phillips and johnson also wore #14. of course, that wouldn't have made a strong case for this being a rare cano rookie jersey. so lou invents a "fact" and presto the jersey is what they want it to be. why isn't it a phillips or johnson jersey? because a phillips or johnson jersey wouldn't sell for as much as a cano rookie. how could they possibly determine it to be a cano rookie though? easy. have lou utter a profound amount of BS and say cano was the only one to have worn #14. is it false? sure but who cares. lou's made a career on falsehoods.

cano was called up on may 3, 2005. by may 7, he was already wearing #22. from may 3-may 5, the yankees were on the road in tampa bay. they came back home on may 6. MAYBE cano possibly wore #14 on may 6. 1 game.

it's one the lampson's biggest blunders because he a) didn't even check the roster (or maybe he did and ignored the results) b) completely fabricated a story and then proceeded to call it "fact". the man's a cancer in the hobby and an embarassment to humanity. any auction house that hires him sends a message loud and clear to the collecting community that they have absolutely no interest in authentication. the sole thing they're interested in is hiring the cheapest around, and someone who'll willingly
participate in their shenanigans. collectors can suffer the consequences as far as they're concerned.

anyway, it's rich that the jersey is being sold by historic yet again after they supposedly sold it almost a year ago! does historic actually ever sell anything? do they have any real consigners? i wonder what they told the "consigner" of this cano jersey. "your jersey sold but the bidder didn't pay up so hold tight and in a year we'll just sell it on ebay".

rudy.

[Eric]

No, it's not made up- the issue is that three players wore #14 that season, so the question was asked "How do they know it was Cano?"

That question went unanswered

[Eric]

This piece sold for $1080. Historic Auctions is choosing to keep their bidder user IDs private.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=330222884920&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=014

[Eric]

Jersey is back for $3489....
http://cgi.ebay.com/ROBINSON-CANO-SIGNED-2005-FIRST-ROOKIE-GAME-USED-JERSEY_W0QQitemZ320418631995QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_ DefaultDomain_0?hash=item4a9a70513b&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/4/7/7/0/1/4/webimg/298642568_o.jpg

[sox83cubs84]

Is it just me, or does reading a Lampson LOA remind you of perusing the IRS tax code?

Dave M.
Chicago area

[kingjammy24]

Is it just me, or does reading a Lampson LOA remind you of perusing the IRS tax code?

Dave M.
Chicago area

personally, i find it more like reading a bernie madoff prospectus.

anyway, there's only 1 possible game cano could've worn #14 for and it's may 6, 2005 vs oakland. maybe someone can find out what number cano wore in that game. if he wore #22, then the jersey was never game worn by cano. and before we go down the preseason route on this one, pics of spring training 2005 show cano wearing #72.

rudy.

[suave1477]

HERE ARE 2 PICTURES FROM 2005 OF ANDY PHILLIPS.

If anyone can enlarge these please do as I am not that good with pictures

IF YOU PAY ATTENTION IN THE FIRST PICTURE THERE IS A PINSTRIPE THAT APPEARS TO GO RIGHT UP THE JERSEY HITTING DEAD CENTER OF THE MIDDLE TO THE BOTTOM OF THE "Y" IN THE INTERLOCKING LOGO "NY"
IN THE HISTORIC AUCTION THERE IS A PINSTRIPE THAT DOES THE SAME THING

http://cache1.asset-cache.net/xc/52989776.jpg?v=1&c=NewsMaker&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF1939847EC77F5F8D1CE67DB692B495EE8F9 4E9C89C783688B46
http://cache4.asset-cache.net/xc/81413485.jpg?v=1&c=NewsMaker&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF1934B869679A269F9CC98701CA9A8F36566 26FD13ED7B73D4BC