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View Full Version : 1998 Ripken GU Alternate - Howard?, Mark?, Rob?



ripkengamers
01-11-2006, 10:46 AM
Looking for a little help on this 1998 GU Alternate on ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8749491885&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1

Howard, Mark, Rob, any thoughts. Item description has very little information and no clear photos of the tagging. I've contacted the seller but no reply yet. Rudy, thought you can provide some thorough "investigative" work!

Dan

kingjammy24
01-11-2006, 02:24 PM
I'm certain that others who are better versed in Orioles gamers will be able to offer additional insight, however here are my 2 cents:

It is my opinion that 1998 was the first year that the Orioles did not use nameplates on their black alternates. It is my opinion that the Orioles used nameplates on their black alternates from 1993-1997. 1998 was the first year these nameplates were not used. From 1998 onward, Orioles black alternates do not use a nameplate. I can't conclusively discern whether the Ebay jersey has a nameplate or not but it is my opinion that it looks like it may not. (It's extremely difficult to find a photo of the Orioles in their 1998 Alternates.). Perhaps it's a 1997 jersey that was used in 1998?
If it's a true 1998 jersey, then it's also my opinion that the tagging should display a four digit format to denote the year (1998) as opposed to a 2 digit format. The 2 digit format was last used in 1995. 1996 was the first year they switched to a 4 digit format.

Of interest to you may be the fact that in September 2004, AMI auctioned off a 1998 Ripken Orioles black alternate.

Here is the description and image:
"1998 Cal Ripken, Jr Game Worn Jersey
His sixteenth of nineteen consecutive All-Star Game appearances came this season, as the Iron Man continued to outdistance Gehrig's erstwhile record of consecutive games. This alternate black knit gamer definitely saw quite a few games' worth of action from that streak, as wear is quite strong, particularly noticeable on the "Russell Athletic [size] 48, 100% Polyester, 2" Extra Length, 1998" tail tagging. Also note the sweat-crinkling of the orange tackle twill that makes up the "Orioles 8" sewn to the chest, and "Ripken 8" on verso. Team logo patch is on left sleeve. More than just a valuable piece of memorabilia, this jersey is an inspirational symbol of human fortitude.
Authenticators
100% Authentic/Lou Lampson
Price Realized: $6,060
Bidding Ended:9/30/2004"

http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/4894/98rip7nn.jpg

Rudy.

ripkengamers
01-11-2006, 02:58 PM
Upon further review I would stay CLEAR of this auction........2 reasons.....

1. I received an email reply from the seller and he stated he could not provide a photo of the tagging as he is away at school and the jersey is at home.........

2. Take a close look at the bid history................26 bids within a couple minutes of each other?????????? I doubt it...........same bidder (maybe even the seller) bidding up the price.

3. Minimum bid of 1 cent AND private bid history? Way too suspicious for me.

That my 2 cents..............or maybe 1 cent!

trsent
01-11-2006, 04:59 PM
Upon further review I would stay CLEAR of this auction........2 reasons.....

1. I received an email reply from the seller and he stated he could not provide a photo of the tagging as he is away at school and the jersey is at home.........

2. Take a close look at the bid history................26 bids within a couple minutes of each other?????????? I doubt it...........same bidder (maybe even the seller) bidding up the price.

3. Minimum bid of 1 cent AND private bid history? Way too suspicious for me.

That my 2 cents..............or maybe 1 cent!

You said two reasons, then listed four!

I see your concern, but the minimum bid of a penny shouldn't ever be an issue. eBay charges a quarter to list an item at an opening bid of .99 cents or less. Figuring the public will set the price for an item, why pay eBay any more than necessary?

bigtime59
01-11-2006, 09:17 PM
I'm certain that others who are better versed in Orioles gamers will be able to offer additional insight, however here are my 2 cents:

It is my opinion that 1998 was the first year that the Orioles did not use nameplates on their black alternates. It is my opinion that the Orioles used nameplates on their black alternates from 1993-1997. 1998 was the first year these nameplates were not used. From 1998 onward, Orioles black alternates do not use a nameplate. I can't conclusively discern whether the Ebay jersey has a nameplate or not but it is my opinion that it looks like it may not. (It's extremely difficult to find a photo of the Orioles in their 1998 Alternates.). Perhaps it's a 1997 jersey that was used in 1998?
If it's a true 1998 jersey, then it's also my opinion that the tagging should display a four digit format to denote the year (1998) as opposed to a 2 digit format. The 2 digit format was last used in 1995. 1996 was the first year they switched to a 4 digit format.

Of interest to you may be the fact that in September 2004, AMI auctioned off a 1998 Ripken Orioles black alternate.

Here is the description and image:
"1998 Cal Ripken, Jr Game Worn Jersey
His sixteenth of nineteen consecutive All-Star Game appearances came this season, as the Iron Man continued to outdistance Gehrig's erstwhile record of consecutive games. This alternate black knit gamer definitely saw quite a few games' worth of action from that streak, as wear is quite strong, particularly noticeable on the "Russell Athletic [size] 48, 100% Polyester, 2" Extra Length, 1998" tail tagging. Also note the sweat-crinkling of the orange tackle twill that makes up the "Orioles 8" sewn to the chest, and "Ripken 8" on verso. Team logo patch is on left sleeve. More than just a valuable piece of memorabilia, this jersey is an inspirational symbol of human fortitude.
Authenticators
100% Authentic/Lou Lampson
Price Realized: $6,060
Bidding Ended:9/30/2004"

http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/4894/98rip7nn.jpg

Rudy.


If I was a betting man, here's what my bets would be on these two items...this jersey: pass...the AMI jersey: pass. The AMI appears to be marginally better, but they're both wrong enough that, even if I did have the $$$ to spend, I wouldn't spend it here.
Rudy, you're a year off on nameplates. The Orioles did not drop them until 1999, although isolated examples of callups having their names sewn directly to the jersey before that season exist. (I've seen at least two of those.) Where both jerseys most obviously go astray is in the lettering in "RIPKEN". Whoever did these got a little too fine with it, and though he had to cut around everything. There shouldn't be any black showing in the upper portions of the "R" and "P", nor should there be any cutting around the legs in the "R". The AMI jersey IS what Rudy suspects the eBay jersey is: a recycled 1997. Note the significant difference in the weight and slant of the script in the AMI jersey (1997-pattern) and the eBay jersey (1998-pattern). I have pictures of Armando Benitez wearing this jersey, but never saw Cal wearing it. Also, the eBay jersey has the 2nd 1998-pattern black jersey bird with the white outline. I don't recall Cal wearing that bird. Finally, out of all the Orioles jerseys from 1995-1999 (Russell w/ Velcro closures) I have never seen one with black Velcro. Every one I've owned or handled had white Velcro.
(DISCLAIMER: I'm working from photos here, and not particularly good ones at that, so some of what I'm seeing, I might not actually be seeing...but, based on the visual evidence available to me here, running away screaming still seems like the best plan.)
Mark Sutton
The old, fat, bald white guy in Arlington who spends WAAAAAAY too much time with Orioles jerseys!

kingjammy24
01-12-2006, 03:22 PM
Bigtime: "The AMI jersey IS what Rudy suspects the eBay jersey is: a recycled 1997."

How can a jersey that's tagged "1998" have been used (or even received) in 1997? Aren't jerseys tagged either at the factory before being shipped out or by the local sewing shop immediately upon receipt? I can see a 1997 being used in 1998, but a 1998 being used in 1997? How is this possible?


Rudy.

hblakewolf
01-12-2006, 05:05 PM
Rudy-
Call it creative at best!

The Phillies went to the World Series in 1983. Their 1983 jerseys had a large 100th anniversary patch on the sleeve.

You will find 1984 tagged Phillies jerseys in the hobby of Pete Rose, Tony Perez and Joe Morgan. These are team "ordered" and correctly tagged jerseys. The problem, however, is that these guys were not on the 1984 team. Several dealers have marketed these 1984 jerseys as 1983 "Post Season/World Series gamers". When asked, these folks have an amazing story about how the Phillies ordered post season jerseys, tagged with 1984 year tags. They did this so they could wear the jerseys in 1984. The problem, however, is that this is simply not true. First, the 1983 patch is much larger than the 1984. Why do these 1984 jerseys have the standard, smaller Phillies 1984 patch and there is no outline of the larger 1983 patch (if the 1984 jerseys had been worn in 1983 World Series, why do these Rose, Perez and Morgan jerseys not have the 1983 patch on them, or better yet, an outline of the larger 1983 patch?).

I have 1983 gamers of Joe Morgan, Schmidt, Rose and Carlton in my collection. All are tagged 83, and all have the large 1983 100th anniversary patch. All but the Morgan were obtained directly from my team contact, who obtained them directly after the 1983 World Series. So much for the 1984 tagging story!

As I always say, do your homework, folks.

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

bigtime59
01-12-2006, 05:47 PM
Bigtime: "The AMI jersey IS what Rudy suspects the eBay jersey is: a recycled 1997."

How can a jersey that's tagged "1998" have been used (or even received) in 1997? Aren't jerseys tagged either at the factory before being shipped out or by the local sewing shop immediately upon receipt? I can see a 1997 being used in 1998, but a 1998 being used in 1997? How is this possible?


Rudy.

Rudy: This is America. We're talking about the Orioles.
Anything's possible! :eek:
Seriously, regardless of what the year-tag on the jersey says, that's 1997-pattern "Orioles" script on the AMI jersey. Again, I have photographic evidence of Armando Benitez wearing a '97-pattern jersey in 1998, but none of Cal.
Here's a brief snapshot of the Orioles jersey script 1995-1999+
1995: one version only
1996: one version only on alternates, two on roads, maybe two homes (would have to do more research on the homes)
1997: one version only
1998: home, 2; road, 2 alt 1 (but a couple of 97-pattern jerseys were worn)
1999: home, 2, road 2, alt 1.
Do you detect a trainwreck in progress here?
Mark